Well. Giving NPC's abilities unattainable by PC character sounds exactly like IA .

Since evil characters are somewhat overlooked it would be fun to give a superbly useful unique ability to Viconia. Could either be "done" (on paper) with a custom made cleric kit tweaked for Viconia (say Priest of Talos - kit with the unique ability of being uninterruptible, "Priest of Lloth") or a Viconia specific item, as she doesn't have one.

Assuming the cleric kits are balanced would give another really nice option for a priest that matches Cernd & Jaheira. This would also continue IA's tradition of making NPC priests more powerful than the PC version can be.



For me this makes sense and sort of would also make cleric's more flexible. Say with a shaman in a party there's no need for a cleric who can heal really well, a cleric who can cause damage / buff would be more useful since healing is already covered.

Viconia worships Shar, not Lolth though.

I would make the cleric kits stand out with their own roles. Throwing out some random thoughts.
Tempus for melee party buff bonuses
Lathander for anti undead and healing
Helm for smiting damage and some melee singular bonuses
Tyr for debuffing the party from negative effects and some smiting damage
Talos for casting
Shar for debuffing?

Not sure....
The cleric symbol is a great way to give unique bonuses to each kit in the late game

That's right, I'm not that good with Lore .

This would make the cleric kits distinct but I can only imagine that this would be a lot of work. But would definitely be very nice!

(double-post removed)

I do not know how easy it is to modify existing spells with weidu and patching them into the clabs. Making new ones is easy enough if they are basic bonuses and immunities.
But it takes time to create a lot of them and to test them all.

I also do not know what each cleric kit should be able to do lore wise...

Thank you for more ideas!

I finally got a good explanation as to why kitted Clerics should be better than standard ones - whether it's the main character, or some NPC, they have a much stronger bond to their deity, serving them for far more time, so it makes sense that this deity favors them and bestows more powers on them.


I think that for the existing kits, it would be the best to stick to what we know of them from their descriptions and abilities, just improving them significantly. As for Priestess of Shar... we will see. I am not skilled with making new kits, so for now I'll skip that. I need some data showing whether Clerics are good or not after they're rebalanced, so my current approach is to rework some spells for all Clerics and to add some (many) new things to Priest of Lathander, as it's probably the kit with the best ability. There will be many changes for this kit, both in HLAs and spells. Based on your opinions I will either do some changes, or introduce those changes to other kits (with some variations probably).

I get new ideas almost every day, I hope I will have enough skill to put them into the game, and more imprtantly - I hope, you will feel that they're interesting enough to start a run with a PoL in your parties!

Double post, strange...

I'm very much looking forward to new cleric kits! I'm hoping that there at least one that is very melee focused. As I'm looking to do a run to try out all of the new things so I'd have Jaheira, a Shaman + a Cleric in my party. That's quite a lot of divine casting power (and I'll probably have a Vagrant as well so four characters who can cast divine spells ...)

PoL is a very nice melee fighter. Blessed bracers and BoL give enough APR to be useful.

Okay guys, no more clerical spells, I'm very bad at coming up with new names, here's the list, that will be available in the beta:

Divine intervention
Heavenly shield
Protective chant
Guardian angel
Spiritual bond
Blessed endurance
Purify aura
Demon hunter

These names might be subject to changes, if I find any cooler sounding names. Now it's time to implement their content and later create proper graphics for each of them.

I don't know about names that much, as I'm terrible at making 'em up. But I'm OK at using Google =).

There's the 5th edition spells for example here - might they be of inspiration?

http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/spells:cleric

Thank you, I will use at least one of those names

The work is going pretty well, although some spells prove to be harder to implement than anticipated and take more time to work as intended. Just to keep you entertained while I'm working on them, here's my little rework to PoL "Hold undead", it holds them, but in a slightly different way:


It's not supposed to be very powerful, but it should be useful throughout the game.

I'm happy I could help! Even though it's sort of a minor thing.

This reworked "hold undead" looks very useful!

Will the new upcoming changes require a new game from the start? I'm sort of toying around in Amn a little bit but I'm looking forward to trying out all of the new things , but it it does require a fresh game then I don't want to play my game too far ahead.

I created a way of implementing some things much faster, so it will be easier for me to create spells which improve with caster's level, so Hold Undead will be a bit buffed in the beta version I'll publish. It should be a real option that players might consider, even when they get 7th level spells and HLAs (although it shouldn't be the only viable option).


I am not familiar with how the benefits for certain classes/kits work, so just to be safe, I'd advise against playing too far ahead. New spells should be applied as soon as your Priest reaches next level, but all other things might not work so smoothly.


EDIT:
Some new spell icons are already done

You only get new abilities at level up for the next levels, not any previous levels. What actively updates are changes to. Number of spell slots (except shaman, sorceress), thac0 and saving throw tables.

You can with an editor set level to 0, hp to 1, other bonuses, resists, etc to baseline, then relevel your character and then you should theoretically have everything you should have.

The icons look very nice and the spell indeed worthwhile for usage even later on. If it stacks with itself, that might be even more sweet.
One note... I thought the priest of Lathander hold undead version might be set to level 0 since it is an innate and otherwise you do not see it or cannot use it when your character is a level 1 or 2 character. As level 0 innate it may affect liches and pass through spell globes.

Care to share out details of what these spells do?

Icons look great!

I know it can be done that way, however having liches vulnerable to this doesn't really accomplish much, since they're slow anyway and if you can hit them, then they're pretty much dead anyway. Also if you manage to to hold them, then you can just run away and for example wait for their PFMW to run off safely. And as for demiliches - lowering their DR would make the fights trivial. So right now only liches, demiliches, and probably Bodhi will be entirely immune to this spell.


Well, on the one hand, I'd love to share all the details right now, so we can have a discussion about those spells, but on the other, I want you to have at least some stuff to discover by yourselves, when I publish the beta version

So in general, all 3 spells (as can be probably deduced from their icons) are protective, and serve to keep the whole party and the Priest alive.

And here's the description for the spell in the middle:

In general I hope that this spell will be useful when you anticipate, that the enemy will fire off a trigger/contingency with 3xADHW, or when you encounter a bunch of Rakshasas, however I'm sure it can have some other usages.

hey guys, is there a chance that u can implement that cursed robe from the Four mod ?

or can anyone explain how to get it ?

thank u guys

I am not familiar with The Four mod and I am not sure where to find the enemies added by it. I will need to play and check for myself.

But from what I know, the original items from The Four were pretty overpowered, weren't they? What bonuses did the robe provide?

https://sorcerers.net/community/threads/the...e-4#post-619360

My very limited understanding of this is that.

Get "the four mod" or the specific item file for the robe from somewhere.

Add to IA's installation folder. Re-install IA.

Alternatively you could find a generic item pack, replace a item file with the robe's file and install the separate item pack.

However, as mentioned, my understanding of how all this works is very limited =).

It's actually one thing I dislike a lot, the end-of-fight triggers. So a way of circumventing the most devastating one's is very welcome.

Personally I would appreciate that the duration would increase to say 2 rounds (is that 12 seconds?), then one could drop this and whack away.

I thought the four was already included in IA, although I do not really know whether they have the original items or changed items.

I think the encounters (at least Ancient Golem & Lich) are implemented, but the items are not.

Well, it's a 5th level AoE spell with very fast casting time. Wizards have PFME at 6th level, which also has other very important spells like IH + it's a single target spell. Protective Chant should be used in dire situation, usually when the Priest sees the danger. But you are right, that the duration is too short. I will make it 1 round. That way you can be protected for the whole time, but you need to keep casting it.


I will write it down for the future, as this robe doesn't seem THAT powerful, since you can't wear it alongside Vecna.



Okay, I have a little update about Cleric rebalancing - what started as a group of small tweaks and improvements, is growing out of proportion. I have a list of 32 changes, all focused on this class and its kits. New ideas are added faster than I can implement them.

Here are 3 new changes:
- Sword and Shield style has been slightly improved, it now gives -1AC and -1AC vs ranged weapons per * and all Clerics can get ** in this style
- Clerics won't get access to Summon Animals from lvl 4 to 6, that should be restricted to Druids only. Right now I will leave 7th level spell which summons Anacondas, as currently Clerics have no good summons (which might change).
- From lvl 15 Aid spell will work as an Area of Effect spell. Having to cast such low impact spell 6 times is tedious, so now players might be slightly more tempted to use it

I'm still pondering which changes should be introduced to Clerics in general, which ones to all kits and which ones should belong to 1 kit only...

Now it looks quite usable! Great! The arcane version lasts for hours (or so) at late game so the uses for these are completely different, I think.





These updates look great! I'm looking forward to trying these out in practice!

Edit: Some nice summons for Clerics would be most welcome!

Clerics won't have Iron Skins, but they will have other means of staying alive and providing survivability for other party members. Here's another new spell, currently available only for Priest of Lathander (though I think I will give all or most of the new spells to all kits).



This spell comes with an animation of a beating heart:

That looks awesome and sounds very useful. I think it will be a nice addition to regeneration.

Okay, time to present another ability, that should allow kitted Clerics to be more useful in spell casting at higher levels. It will be presented as a HLA, which can be picked up to 3 times, however a less melee oriented kit might get it even faster.


This ability should be more strategical than Improved Alacrity, as you can use it at any point in time, not needing your aura to be cleansed. You might for example stop casting some spell in the middle, use Purify Aura and switch to Protective Chant, if you see an enemy finishing his ADHW.

There will be one more spell, which will make casting more useful, especially at higher levels.

Also Cleric version of Disrupt Undead will work as a ranged spell, though it will be castable from a short distance only.

I thought that if you just finished a spell or canceled it you would need to wait for the round end before you can activate that ability?

No, you don't need to do that. This ability can be used at ANY time, as long as you have control over your character. Ofc at lower levels it won't have any effect if you don't wait for the proper amount of time, but you get a "fatigued" icon on your character, just like with berserker rage, indicating when you can use the ability again.

https://youtu.be/dEKjO3O8dY8 Here's a video presenting the skill.

That opens up possibilities

This looks great!

I hope there will be many creative uses of this skill, that I didn't even think of.

Now I have a bit better vision of where I want to go with Cleric kits. Apart from their special abilities, they will be having access to the same spells (some of them not available to pure Clerics), but the spells will have some benefits based on the kit. Some Cleric kits will be more melee oriented, whilie Priest of Talos will be a better caster.

1. Priest of Lathander will have undispellable Boon of Lathander and a better version of Hold Undead (improved from my previous post about it).
2. Priest of Tempus won't get Holy Power as a skill, but his Holy Power will be improved and add additional 1/2APR at levels 10 and 20 (since the spell has "strength and skill" in the description). Also his Holy Power and Righteous Might will be undispellable.
3. Priest of Helm will be able to use long swords and put 2 stars in them. Also his Seeking Sword will be completely reworked and will become more powerful as the Priest levels up. It won't block spell casting, though it will have some slight disadvantages (I'm not yet sure which ones). Also at high enough levels the sword will get a higher range, not needing the Priest to make a direct contact with the enemy, to deal damage.
4. Priest of Talos will get an early access to Purify Aura and the final improvement for Cleric casting will work slightly better for him. I'm also thinking of reworking both of his abilities.
5. Priest of Tyr will be able to put additional star in Sword and Shield style (which synergizes with a new spell, which will be introduced), also he will get more uses of Exaltation and it will last longer.

This looks like very welcome development!

Even minor details can have tremendous impact on the outcome of effectiveness, the differentiation of Cleric kits lets one then pick a class most suitable for overall party composition (most glaring needs).

If the Cleric spells are going through a revamp, could you also upgrade the spell "spiritual hammer" so that it reaches +5 instead of +3? (that way it could be used even in late game as well =))

I want to release this new version soon (in the upcoming 2-3 weeks) and based on input from players, some more changes and more differences between the kits might be introduced.

Okay, today it's finally time to show you the final spell (apart from Cause X Wounds and Purify Aura) that will make Clerics better casters, hopefully without making them broken.

This spell will have a +1 casting time for Priests of Talos, since they don't have any improvements for h2h.

Also, here's an equivalent of Weaken Undead spell, which is designed to fight demons. This spell is gained by all Clerics, even those without any kit.

Been itching for another Improved Anvil run, still the best version of BGII.

Great to hear a new version coming out soon, thanks guys

I have been playing a shaman in bg1 to import to bg2 (bad habit to require that to play the saga) and I am almost through it. Thinking about doing siege as well because I think it may import some shaman items.

Nevertheless, I am thinking about cleric kit pairing, but it feels like a candy shop right now, lol.

I'm very impressed with all the new cleric spells - they're giving clerics powerful tools that feel very unique to clerics and within the class identity.

Are these new spells all for pure clerics, or would they also be available for dual/multis?

That was my intention, so I'm glad that I managed to achieve that


For now most new spells (apart from Demon Hunt) will be accessible only for Cleric kits, as I really want them to become more appealing to players. You will be however able to dual class without any restrictions. We want people to have more options when playing the mod and that was one of our core concepts for 6.X versions. Some things might change, spells be moved, restricted or made more accessible after we get some more input.

EDIT: Ofc all general improvements for spells will be available for all Clerics.

I have a question to you guys:
did you ever use Sunray spell in Improved Anvil? Was it useful at all against tougher enemies?

I've tried to but I never succeeded with it that much... I think it should be devastating against mists for example, but it doesn't work that well - lightning damage is just so much better (IIRC) and has so many other uses as well.

Okay then, here are 2 more rebalanced spells apart from False Dawn (which works the same as on 2nd page of this thread, except it works only on Shadows and Vampires)
I removed immunities to those spells from most enemies (maybe some of the most powerful ones still can resist those spells).

BoG is now a single target and long range spell, which deals nice damage to demons. Both this spell and False Dawn will benefit greatly from Spiritual Link at higher levels.



This spell is a bit similar to False Dawn, so I decided to make it deal less damage to most of the creatures that are affected by False Dawn, but Sunray can affect all other undead enemies, currently being the only AoE spell dealing damage to Skeleton (War/Grand)lords.

Is there a rough date in mind on when this new update will be released or is it a week by week ?

It's hard to say, as there are still many things to implement and some cause me more trouble than anticipated. But be prepared to get the new version in the upcoming 2 weeks. I think that most of the hardest elements are already coded and at least partially tested.

And while we're on the topic of spells that are hard to code, here are 2 more:



I like this improvement very much. It sticks to the description even better than vanilla part of the spell, since the coordination should be maintained and it gives more profits if you have more party members. Also this additional DR shouldn't allow for any abuse with many casters having many DH activated.


That spell should make shields slightly more useful. It also ensures that only 1 hit per round gets this bonus, so the spell is as useful for pure Clerics, as it would be for duals/multis with higher APR. I think this spell will be available to all Clerics, you will need to invest points in S&S to make it more useful anyway.

Be prepared, that some enemy Clerics will have this spell as a prebuff, so their damage will increase too. And ofc they will get additional AC bonuses from reworked Sword and Shield style.

Finally a defensive hamony worth casting! So did I get this right, assuming the cleric casts this and it affects all 5 other party members a 24th level caster could get up to 20% DR with this spell?

Yes, that's right. However you need to keep a tight formation to get all the bonuses.

I can hear the wail of the demon princes as far as my house.

Though to be fair - I live in Hellsinki.

(ps. I'm very much looking forward to these new changes!)

So am I understanding this correctly:

• Cast this spell as a cleric kit
• Count the number of nearby allies, call it X
• Each of those allies gets 2%/3%/4% resistance to slashing+crushing+piercing damage
• The caster gains X multiplied by 2%/3%/4% resistance to slashing+crushing+piercing damage

How does this work if there are multiple pure class clerics? I could see some shenanigans happening if a part of six clerics starts casting this.


Does this require the caster to be using a shield? The spell description doesn't explicitly say so, and I'm not sure if the engine would support such a limitation.

Yes, each of the allies gets this bonus for 6 seconds and for each of them your Cleric gets similar bonus, which stacks.

I might have overlooked something, but in general you should get the best bonuses, when only 1 character casts the spell, without going into too much detail. But yeah, that was the hardest spell to code properly and I have limited time for testing some very unlikely scenarios, so there might still be some problems.


Ok, I will add that info to the spell if it's not clear enough - you do need a shield to get the bonuses from this spell. To be precise you need to have a shield when striking, it's not needed at the moment you cast the spell, you can also switch between weapons and such. I already have this spell working, so don't worry, it's doable

Good news. I had much more time than usual to work on the mod and I'm almost finished with the hardest stuff, what is left is just small changes to some spells and adding proper descriptions, abilities and HLAs to proper kits. I think that I should have a working version before next Friday, probably even sooner. However be warned, that my skill and experience in modding is far lower than Critto's, plus I don't have enough time to make a proper run, to see the new changes in the mod. That's why there might (will) be some errors and some things might be unballanced. So I encourage you to give us your feedback, so that we can make changes, where they are needed

As it will be only a beta version of 6.6, I will make another standard topic, without pinning it anywhere. There I will list all the changes that were done to rebalance Clerics, so that you know what to look for.