Ryel ril Ers
Feb 4 2008, 12:41 PM
I editeted my post. See it. I meant warrior instead fighter.
Choo Choo
Feb 4 2008, 01:37 PM
May I add a thing about bards?
While I personally don't recommend capping their spells at level 5, I also understand that there's no point in arguing about it, since you seem pretty set in your opinion.
However, bards aren't a jack of ALL trades - they're specialized as musicians/actors/playwrights. If you give them more songs, through special abilities, that would be nice. Besides, it always irked me how all bards only knew ONE song each.
That way, they're not wannabe-mages, wannabe-thieves or wannabe-fighters, but an unique class which can stand on its own.
Sikret
Feb 4 2008, 02:12 PM
I always create polls and/or ask for everyone's opinion about a new feature or a new change when I'm (even slightly) undecided. In this case (bards' case), I was not undecided.
The expression "Jack_of_all trades" is directly taken from the class's description inside the game; that's why it's used so many times here by various people.
Sikret
Feb 5 2008, 01:45 PM
Here is my gift to those who love (and to those who hate
) Auramasters:
Quote from initial post of this thread:
QUOTE
- Improved Challenge for the "Great Druid" title (one on one duel with the "Great Auramaster")
Nexiam
Feb 5 2008, 10:09 PM
LOL nerfing bards. I guess I'll have to go with 6 Vagrant's in my next run.
Sikret
Feb 10 2008, 08:03 AM
I'm thinking of adding another new quest to the expanded mage stronghold. The main idea is roughly as follows:
Lavok had a lost and torn journal. Once you find its parts you can read it and will be able to fix the planar sphere for more planar travels. The next travel will be multi-dimensional and will send you back in time to when Lavok was alive and not yet enslaved and controlled by the "evil force". The young Lavok (who is not evil) won't naturally recognize you. He is on his path to do things which will eventually turn him to the evil and controlled Lavok you knew and you will have the option to try to help him in choosing his future in a better way. Whether you will be able to (at least partly) change the outcome or will unwantedly work as a catalyst to speed up the evil path or will just behave as a neutral observer is a question which will be answered during the quest.
The quest should be written in a way not to cause any inconsistency with what has happened in the game till then while offering enough freedom of choice and action to the player. It's certainly a complicated and difficult to make quest.
If anyone is willing to participate in making this quest (= writing dialogues and helping me with good novel ideas about how and in which order the events should proceed), please send me a PM (and I will share more information about the quest through PMs).
Edited for typos
Sikret
Feb 18 2008, 10:36 AM
Changed the next version's number (from v5.1) to v6.
Once the Expanded Druid Stronghold is fully implemented, the amount of new content will be large enough to make it a major update.
Vardaman
Feb 18 2008, 04:41 PM
QUOTE
- Some possible cheesy exploits while fighting with Warden in planar prison are blocked.
Could you change it so players can still jump down the prison pits even after the Warden is defeated? It's be nice to get that extra bit of XP for the two holes just south of the Warden. You can't enter them without alerting him the way it is.
EDIT: Or just disable the pits during the Warden fight and reactivating them when he's dead. That would prevent any exploits using the pits to hide (if the spawning planar hounds thing was able to be reproduced).
GreyArea
Apr 3 2008, 11:56 AM
sorry to bring this back from the dead..even though it is indeed pinned.
My thoughts on the Planar Sphere proposed extra quest if I may (just random musing and idea really)
- Due to it being effectively time travel and the grandfather paradox may happen and all that jazz, could we meet up with Valygar's old family other than Lavok? Possibly sub side quest or something like that? could be interesting if you have Valygar in your team when you do it I am sure.
Looking forward to the new implimentations in V6 and new quests...even though I havn't run through V5 yet
Beowulf
Apr 3 2008, 10:25 PM
Posted this twice now because im new to this all and posted in the wrong place before
, so ill re do it here, i love pallys and would really like to see an extended pally stronghold other than the current windspear quests wich anyone can do and also a new kit, if its as op as the vagrant that would be great. (edited due to poss spoiler removed )
Raven
Apr 4 2008, 08:40 AM
I'll send you a PM.
By the way, a couple of battles are already enhanced in the paladin stronghold. Sikret's currently working on an extended Druid stronghold, which will be finished for the next version of the mod. As far as I know he has no plans to extend the paladin stronghold at the moment, perhaps it's something he'll think about in the future.
omare1981
Apr 14 2008, 02:18 AM
Dear Sikret, a little suggest:
1.can you add some evil missions? The missions only -15 and lower morals can do.[For example: When Charname back to the Red Dragon`s nest and meet Rune ASN`s master, If you are evil enough, and you can have a chance to receive a Rune ASN`s mission: Slay Vanya and the hole Ardor of Heart! If you done, and you can earn some new powerful magic items from ASN`s. /or you can also help the diviner to kill Aural and earn some rewards
]
Charname is Baal`s son, So, Please give more chance to us to become a evil~~~
2.The more smart enemy groups,But not all high levels.
maybe it`s a new way in enemy NPC`s seedtime. Please allow me to use a mage for example---- Not all the mages can cast many high level spells.but they can use many mid-level or low-level spells right and effective to against Charname`s squad:if solider run nearby the NPCmage, mage can cast " Teleport Field "spell ; and when our mage prepare to cast a powerful but long casting time spells to attack NPCmage,and he can cast a quick-spell[magic missile] to hit and make our mage`s spell failed.
Enemy`s cooperate: if a group of Mid-enemy have excellent tactics in combbat ,they`ll be more dangerous.
General speaking. if enemy have higher intelligence instead of most High-levels,the game will become more interesting.
Raven
Apr 14 2008, 08:38 AM
QUOTE(omare1981 @ Apr 14 2008, 03:18 AM)
2.The more smart enemy groups,But not all high levels.
maybe it`s a new way in enemy NPC`s seedtime. Please allow me to use a mage for example---- Not all the mages can cast many high level spells.but they can use many mid-level or low-level spells right and effective to against Charname`s squad:if solider run nearby the NPCmage, mage can cast " Teleport Field "spell ; and when our mage prepare to cast a powerful but long casting time spells to attack NPCmage,and he can cast a quick-spell[magic missile] to hit and make our mage`s spell failed.
Enemy`s cooperate: if a group of Mid-enemy have excellent tactics in combbat ,they`ll be more dangerous.
General speaking. if enemy have higher intelligence instead of most High-levels,the game will become more interesting.
Enemies already are far more intelligent; there are fundamental limitations of the engine which mean that scripting enemies to do certain things is either impossible or so code-intensive as to make it pointless. The example you give of a mage casting a quick-cast spell to interrupt a long casting - scripting something like that would be very complicated (if it's even possible).
Sikret
Apr 14 2008, 10:18 AM
QUOTE(omare1981 @ Apr 14 2008, 06:48 AM)
1.can you add some evil missions? The missions only -15 and lower morals can do.[For example: When Charname back to the Red Dragon`s nest and meet Rune ASN`s master, If you are evil enough, and you can have a chance to receive a Rune ASN`s mission: Slay Vanya and the hole Ardor of Heart! If you done, and you can earn some new powerful magic items from ASN`s. /or you can also help the diviner to kill Aural and earn some rewards
]
Charname is Baal`s son, So, Please give more chance to us to become a evil~~~
The quests of IA v5 are mostly aimed at good-aligned parties (there is an exception though, which has both good and evil paths).
In v6, with Expanded Druid Stronghold, you will have a big amount of new content for neutral parties as well.
I have long term plans for adding more content for evil parties as well (albeit, not in the examples you mentioned, as they are quests which are specifically for good-aligned parties. Evil parties won't even see those quests).
For now, if you want to do something evil in v5, you can pick the evil path in the new quest in the 3rd lvl of WK. The evil path is even more rewarding (xp-wise) than the good path (though the good path has better loot).
QUOTE(Raven @ Apr 14 2008, 01:08 PM)
Enemies already are far more intelligent; there are fundamental limitations of the engine which mean that scripting enemies to do certain things is either impossible or so code-intensive as to make it pointless. The example you give of a mage casting a quick-cast spell to interrupt a long casting - scripting something like that would be very complicated (if it's even possible).
Yes, and let's add that it wouldn't be even something desirable or even smart, because it would open several new exploit possibilities.
omare1981
Apr 15 2008, 06:56 AM
Dear sikret:
Thanks for your answer. And I`m very glad you made my first advise[evil missions].
So last night when I`m in dream, Baal told me a new idea for your improving IA-6 ---- "unique spells"!!
What`s the Unique Spell ? For mage that`s a scroll,which a very powerful spell scroll,if mage earned,he/she can study it immediately.but the scroll must be combined[just like equipment combination,collect many material from special missions and enemy.]the spell will be very powerful!
Druid`s and priest`s unique spells can during some difficult missions in succession to learn from NPC.
These unique spells also between two camps. good and evil.
consider a bit~
Ymarsakar
Apr 17 2008, 10:10 PM
I'd like to see Haer'Dalis get some innate unique bardsongs along the lines of his Doomguard philosophy and Blade kit. Combat related, focused on himself or his enemies, rather than the party.
It'd be more entertaining to see Haer'Dalis use song magic to decay the enemy down rather than just have a weapon that does some extra features.
Secondly, is there any consideration of changing the spmagglo spell graphics for the Spell Immunity and Spell Trap spells?
Clown
Apr 29 2008, 04:55 PM
Version six seems to be shaping up to be a pretty huge addition, the new mage stuff especially sounds very exciting. I presume therefore that its not going to be current save game compatible? Also any idea as to a rough release date?
Sorry if I seem impatient, keep up the good work.
Sikret
Apr 30 2008, 06:24 AM
QUOTE(Clown @ Apr 29 2008, 09:25 PM)
Version six seems to be shaping up to be a pretty huge addition, the new mage stuff especially sounds very exciting. I presume therefore that its not going to be current save game compatible?
You are right. Starting a new game will be mandatory.
QUOTE
Also any idea as to a rough release date?
It depends on many factors:
- I'm waiting for Valiant finishing the new area for the expanded druid stronghold. I have seen a part of the wilderness Valiant is making (still incomplete of course) and I can say that it is fantastic! A true graphical masterpiece.
- I should find enough time to implement all of the new features.
- Then, I will announce for more testers. IA v6 needs to be tested by more testers (some playing it with a single-class mage; some others playing it with a druid).
- Just then we can be ready for the public release.
QUOTE
Sorry if I seem impatient, keep up the good work.
Thanks for your interest, Clown. I'm grateful that you are imaptient. You can, of course, join the testing team anytime you wish.
Sikret
Jun 7 2008, 04:30 AM
I trust you revisit the first post of this thread regularly.
Some major updates have been applied to the initial post (the list of some of the new quests are added; those which are not marked as "in progress" are completely implemented).
I don't send a new post each time I edit the first post; so, keep revisiting regularly if you are interested in following the latest news.
Vuki
Jun 11 2008, 12:28 PM
Hi Sikret!
I have found some interesting points that should be modified for V6.
- Shade Lover's strength reducing effect is a bit strange. It is not stopped by Negative Plane Protection (and Amulet of Power). I think it should be, because NPP should stop all such an effect. Mirror Image does not protect against it. I think it should do also.
- Battle with Tanova is ok but the battles against Lassal and Bodhi are really easy. Too easy, especially after Tanova.
- Battle on the second floor of Seven Veils (Mencar Pebblecrusher's band). It is really challenging but there is one problem: Sorcerous Amon has unlimited stoneskin. When I made the battle I killed everybody except him and I did not have any really good offensive magic. After a while he had no spell also and we beated each other but I was not able to kill him because he renew his stoneskin every time (it was very funny, I even went to eat some apple pies and when I come back situation was still the same). Finally I have used my hold person and fortunately (for me) he failed his saving throw. My suggestion is to give him a limit for the stoneskin spell and when he reaches this limit then his stoneskin should not be renew again.
- There are some items that could be improved further. For example Martial Staves, Short Sword of Backstabbing, Staff Spear, ... Especially would be good to improve the last one because it makes possible for priest's to cause piercing damage (and it is only a +2 weapon, would be nice to make it +3 or +4).
- It would be nice to allow monks to use Quater Staff. I think it really fits to their historycal background.
- Generally speaking I do not agree with the modifications you plan that breaks the original AD&D rules. I am speaking now about the Bard nerfed casting ability (only allow 5th level spells instead of 6th level) or the new modified Magic Resistance spell. I like the new percentage system but I think it is not a good idea that the target can be only the caster.
I think that this mod is really a very nice work and I would like to say thank you for it!
Sikret
Jun 11 2008, 12:57 PM
Hi, Vuki!
QUOTE(Vuki @ Jun 11 2008, 04:58 PM)
- Shade Lover's strength reducing effect is a bit strange. It is not stopped by Negative Plane Protection (and Amulet of Power). I think it should be, because NPP should stop all such an effect.
No, the NPP spell or the Amulet of Power normally don't (and shouldn't) protect against 'ability score drain'. There is nothing strange or abnormal there.
I will also consider and check the other things you reported in the rest of your post. Thanks.
Vuki
Jun 11 2008, 01:37 PM
QUOTE(Sikret @ Jun 11 2008, 02:57 PM)
Hi, Vuki!
No, the NPP spell or the Amulet of Power normally don't (and shouldn't) protect against 'ability score drain'. There is nothing strange or abnormal there.
I will also consider and check the other things you reported in the rest of your post. Thanks.
I do not know how it is implemented in the game but I am pretty sure that in the original AD&D NPP protects again both level and ability drain. The reason is simple: the spell offer protection against all effects that come from the negative plane and ability drain also works on that way. So, I think it should protect against every drain-like effect.
Sikret
Jun 11 2008, 01:50 PM
In pnp, the spell does protect against both level drain and strength drain but the recipient should roll a saving throw. If the save is successfull the level drain or STR drain will be blocked, but the spell will also be cancelled after the first hit (regardless of whether the save is made or not).
In BG2, the spell grants guaranteed protection for its duration or until dispelled (without requiring to roll saving throw and without disappering after the first hit); but, it doesn't protect against STR drain.
I believe the BG2 version of the spell is actually better and more useful than the pnp version of it. So, let's keep it as it is.
Vuki
Jun 11 2008, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the info! It was long time ago when I played pnp.
Shadan
Jul 7 2008, 09:56 AM
I have a suggestion to prevent item changes during fight. I always thought some of them as a soft cheat, but I used them sometimes since the game allowed it. Let see some examples to be clear what I want to tell:
1. Changes weapons, rings, cloaks or necks between characters:
If I see Abi Dalzim is coming, I can pause the game and give Poseidon's Wrath to unprotected character. Similarly if I see Death Ward is dispelled from may mage and 3 Finger of Death is on the way to kill him, I can pause and give the best amulet, cloak, and 2 rings to be sure his saving throw is as low as it can be from items. I remember I saved my sorcerer one time with this method.
Not so hard thing, when I store a Ring of Fire resistance in my inventory, and if prot from fire is dispelled, I change one of my ring of protection to fire res. ring.
I could write some more example but you can see what's on now.
I can imagine 2 types of fixing:
- either all items (cloaks, rings, amulets etc.) should be unchangeable during battle.
This will bring up the weapon change question: When I have more useful weapons (as for example my swashbuckler-fighter had Poseidon's Wrath against cold and Abi Dalzim, Dragon Lord against Dragon Breath, Warlord's Blade against physical attacks and Staff of the Ram for max. damage) I won't be able to change them during battle. This would be annoying or it could bring back the importance of weapon slots. Fighters have more slots than other warriors and dual fighters, so a fighter can chose between more weapons during the fight than paladin, ranger or dual/multi version. If we don't want this restriction, either let only weapons as changeable item during fight, or:
- prevent any trade between characters during fight. This version would prevent my 2nd point also which is coming now.
2. Changes quick slot items during fight:
Improved cat figurine, summoning items were always changed between characters during fights in my game, but good potions were also. Game would be much harder if there wouldn't be opportunity to change quick slot items or at least to prevent trade between characters during the fight.
This is my opinion only, but I gladly would hear your ones.
Vuki
Jul 13 2008, 11:16 PM
I did the fight with Cat O'Nine Lives and I found it really funny and I really enjoyed it. Thank you for it! But on the other hand I found it a very easy fight. I know it was used to already discussed in this forum but I do not remember what was the final conclusion. I checked it here in the progress report but it was not mentioned there. So, I suggest now to improve it's offensive power. He (or she?
) damaged appr. 80 HP to my barbarian and that was all he did at all. I killed him really easily.
BTW, I think one of the funny part of this battle was that I did not know how powerful would be the final version of her. So, I was frightened a bit because I heard about this battle before. Here comes the idea: how about if the improvement of this cat is made a bit randomly? It could be done in two ways:
1. She can be improved based on the prevous stage of her. This is somehow a recursive definition: fg. if her THAC0 was x in the previous stage then her new THAC0 will x-1D3 (so, better of course). Same should be applied for all of her abilities (or at least some of them).
2. In every level she has a range for her abilities (like THAC0 should be for x-1D6 for the actual level where x is level dependent).
The first should be very funny (you can get finally a very-very powerful Cat O'Nine Lives but she can be really weak too) but I am not sure if it can be done in BG2 script language. I am also not sure about the second case but I give it more chance.
Kerkes
Jul 20 2008, 09:01 PM
Question - just how will riskbreaker be improved? I would really like to play the game with somebody who scores criticals on 17 and up, but in IA5 this guy is no good, sorry. If he could be a dwarf or a halfling, I'd actually take him. (Humans I can't stand, and Korgan is my all-time-favourite NPC.) Will he have some good item upgrades and/or quests only for riskbreakers?
Kerkes
Jul 20 2008, 09:14 PM
About Bards in IA - I found Haer'Dalis to be far superior to Keldorn and much more useful in many difficult fights. He can also dish out a very poweful remove/dispel magic + can use any item to get Carsomyr and +50 MR so the mages target him with LR which takes the pressure off your other characters. + he levels up faster than other classes. About capping their spell progression - an IA there are TONS of scrolls if you're fast enough to kill mages before they use them on you, and bards can cast anything they wish from scrolls. For me, it's fine as it is, but if you wish to cap it, it's ok. Their armor alone is powerful enough to compensate for that.
Vuki
Jul 20 2008, 10:16 PM
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Jul 20 2008, 11:14 PM)
About capping their spell progression - an IA there are TONS of scrolls if you're fast enough to kill mages before they use them on you, and bards can cast anything they wish from scrolls. For me, it's fine as it is, but if you wish to cap it, it's ok. Their armor alone is powerful enough to compensate for that.
I have only one problem with this "spell progression capping". Standard AD&D rules allow the bards to cast 6th level spells and Sikret would like to reduce it to 5th level. I understand his reasons (this way bards cannot cast - except from scrolls - PfMW and Tenser) but I think it is really a bad solution. When standard AD&D allow something and you are not able to do it then it is always a pain. It is understandable when it is technically not possible (like restriction for dual-classes), so no one complaint but when it is just made because of game balance then it is really difficult to accept.
Kerkes
Jul 21 2008, 12:13 AM
In IA my bard is actually a full-time socerer, only he can actually dispel a lot, and has permanent imp.alcatry &-2 to casting speed. I'll miss my life savin imphaste+pfmw+tenser trigger also.
Vuki
Jul 21 2008, 07:33 AM
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Jul 21 2008, 02:13 AM)
In IA my bard is actually a full-time socerer, only he can actually dispel a lot, and has permanent imp.alcatry &-2 to casting speed. I'll miss my life savin imphaste+pfmw+tenser trigger also.
As you see and as you have written there are two problems with bards imho:
- very fast level up
- permanent Improved Alacrity
The second one is mod related: if that item is too powerful then it should be removed. The first one can be solved by a little raise of the necessery XP to level up. And of course the bard casting ability could be reduce to 6th level. I see it as a much better solution than to artificially reduce the casting ability to 5th level (however raising the XP needed to level up is also artificial
).
Kerkes
Jul 21 2008, 12:15 PM
I agree. Eternal melody should be tweaked and I think I read it will be in IA6.
Shadan
Jul 23 2008, 07:34 AM
I don't know why but I started to plan my v6 party in my head. Since druid stronghold is upgraded, so I thought I will play a druid protagonist. I played with Cernd as auramaster in 4.2 and I started to think about his usefullness. Sadly I figured out neither single class cleric nor druid is not usefull in IA high end games. Let see why!
Both druid and priest single class attacks once per round, 2 with Haste/Impr. Haste. If you do dual class cleric or druid they are excellent since with 2handed style and Impr. Haste can attack 6/round which is a huge difference. I found offensive cleric and druid spells totally useless in fights like EDE or any high end game fight. Enemies either has 100 % MR or immune to spells below 9. And those enemies immune to fire, lightning, magical damage etc... As far as I remember Cernd was only able to summon elemental princes in EDE, and those princes are not too good also in fight like this. They almost was not able to damage anything, they were good just to soak a few damage... Clerics are better a bit since they have Greater Resto, but dual class clerics can cast GR. Resto also. My lvl 7 memorized spells with my cleric in both of my game were Gr. Restoration except 2 slots. 1 slot for Globe of Blades and 1 slot for Summon Deva. Clerics buffs became less inportant also in high end game. Wizards and sorcerers do the most imporant buffs like Impr. Haste, PfMW, PfMagical Damage. Even Prot. from Fire is better from arcane caster since it lasts much longer. In high end game the very strong melee fight is the best, but arcane casters can at least do very important buffs, Dragon Breath, Wish etc. which makes them essential in those fights also.
All in all dual classed cleric is very very good and needed in IA, dual classed druid is good also, but the luck of Gr. Resto makes him secondary only to clerics, but single class from both class are a bit useless in IA high end game, even the new kit auramaster also.
I have some suggestions:
- Lets make elementral princes (maybe devas also) a bit more useful. Their weapons should be considered to +4 weapons (hey, they are HLAs...), better AC, resistances, saves etc.
- Lets make druid form change a more useful. Lets do a new druid HLA which is super form change.
- Lets make Regeneration much better spell and change it to druid only. It should be the druid version of very good healing spell at lvl 7, which can be in par or at least can be close to Greater Restoration. (All party memmbers get a very good regeneration for a short time.) Or lets make a new druid HLA with similar goal.
- Lets replace the useless Mass Raise Dead HLA at both druids and clerics with an offensive HLA, so caster type clerics and druids can do something in EDE also. This should be available only single class druids and clerics.
These are my thoughts only, all opinions are welcome. Maybe others will have better ideas to strengthen single class caster type druid and cleric.
Sikret
Jul 23 2008, 08:02 AM
QUOTE(shadan @ Jul 23 2008, 12:04 PM)
I don't know why but I started to plan my v6 party in my head. Since druid stronghold is upgraded, so I thought I will play a druid protagonist. I played with Cernd as auramaster in 4.2 and I started to think about his usefullness. Sadly I figured out neither single class cleric nor druid is not usefull in IA high end games.
Raven is writing an essay, "How to play auramasters effectively". It will surely be of much help for players. As I have said before, playing an auramaster is a bit tricky and that's exactly what makes it a balanced and fun kit. If everyone could easily figure out how to utilize the kit's prowess, it wouldn't have been much fun.
QUOTE
Both druid and priest single class attacks once per round, 2 with Haste/Impr. Haste. If you do dual class cleric or druid they are excellent since with 2handed style and Impr. Haste can attack 6/round which is a huge difference.
Well, nothing prevents you from dual-classing your cleric. Even the expanded druid stronghold won't be limited to single-class druid.
QUOTE
I found offensive cleric and druid spells totally useless in fights like EDE
EDE is really an exception. It's not a good example for accessing different classes' offensive power.
QUOTE
or immune to spells below 9.
Immunity to spells below 9th level specifically belongs to Rakshasa Prince in EDE (and demiliches, Bone Golems and Magic Golems are immune to all spell levels even in the vanilla game).
QUOTE
Clerics are better a bit since they have Greater Resto, but dual class clerics can cast GR. Resto also. My lvl 7 memorized spells with my cleric in both of my game were Gr. Restoration except 2 slots. 1 slot for Globe of Blades and 1 slot for Summon Deva.
Good news is that I'm going to add one or two new 7th level clerical spells to the game for v6.
QUOTE
Even Prot. from Fire is better from arcane caster since it lasts much longer.
I don't agree with this point. Clerics have usually higher levels and enemies have hard time in dispelling spells cast by clerics. So, if you cast protection from fire on any of your characters by your cleric, the chance that the enemy can dispel it with remove magic spell is smaller than the chance he has to dispel the buff if cast by a mage. It's true that if not dispelled the prot. from fire cast by the mage will last longer but this is a minor advantage over the major advantage of the clerical version of the spell I just mentioned.
QUOTE
I have some suggestions
Thank you. Let them come.
QUOTE
- Lets make elementral princes (maybe devas also) a bit more useful.
Devas are already a lot more powerful and smart compared to the vanilla game; I will surely consider improving the elemental princes as well. Good point!
QUOTE
- Lets make druid form change a more useful. Lets do a new druid HLA which is super form change.
I will think about this.
QUOTE
- Lets make Regeneration much better spell and change it to druid only. It should be the druid version of very good healing spell at lvl 7, which can be in par or at least can be close to Greater Restoration. (All party memmbers get a very good regeneration for a short time.) Or lets make a new druid HLA with similar goal.
Auramasters already have a superb regeneration ability (= contact with Nature) as you surely know, though it can be cast only on self.
In general, I don't see reason for making the regeneration spell more powerful than what it is. It it is already a powerful spell. Moreover, regeneration granted by spells and potions can stack.
QUOTE
- Lets replace the useless Mass Raise Dead HLA at both druids and clerics with an offensive HLA, so caster type clerics and druids can do something in EDE also. This should be available only single class druids and clerics.
I have actually thought about the "Mass Raise Dead" HLA and I agree that it's not useful. I'm open to good suggestions for replacing it. But I repeat again: don't take EDE as your criterion for giving any sort of suggestions.
Raven
Jul 23 2008, 08:40 AM
QUOTE(Sikret @ Jul 23 2008, 09:02 AM)
QUOTE(shadan @ Jul 23 2008, 12:04 PM)
I don't know why but I started to plan my v6 party in my head. Since druid stronghold is upgraded, so I thought I will play a druid protagonist. I played with Cernd as auramaster in 4.2 and I started to think about his usefullness. Sadly I figured out neither single class cleric nor druid is not usefull in IA high end games.
Raven is writing an essay, "How to play auramasters effectively". It will surely be of much help for players.
However, its first draft is mainly for low-level play; hopefully when I make progress in the v6 testing game I'm starting soon I will add sections on tactics at high levels.
Vuki
Jul 23 2008, 10:37 AM
QUOTE(Sikret @ Jul 23 2008, 10:02 AM)
Devas are already a lot more powerful and smart compared to the vanilla game; I will surely consider improving the elemental princes as well. Good point!
When my blade+barbarian+ranger/cleric+monk combo attacked the Fallen Deva summoned by lich in Spellhold then I was able to kill it in one round. Ok, it was 4 improved hasted characters (except the monk) but their levels were 15-16 only. Do you think that Deva is powerful enough in the current version? Could it be maybe caster level dependent or just simple has more defensive power?
QUOTE
I have actually thought about the "Mass Raise Dead" HLA and I agree that it's not useful. I'm open to good suggestions for replacing it. But I repeat again: don't take EDE as your criterion for giving any sort of suggestions.
I think the new HLA could be similar to the current one. How about the following spell?
Mass Delay Death
Range: 10 yards
Duration: 2 rounds
Casting Time: 3
Area of Effect: 20' radius
Saving Throw: none
The spell affected every friendly creatures in the area of effect. It protects the affected creatures from death to 3 rounds. Everybody who should die during that period of time either from spell effect (like Finger Death) or damage can make a saving throw against death and if it is succesfull then he/she survived. HP cannot be lowered below zero except the case when saving throw was not made against death. Spellcasting and every other action is possible even if HP is lowered to zero.
Maybe it is too powerfull spell but I think the two rounds duration compensate for it's power. And I think it is useable in EDE also however it was not a requirement.
Shadan
Jul 23 2008, 10:52 AM
Auramester: I agree this kit is very very usefull at low level game. Even at mid level. I played with Cernd as I mentioned and I used him with very efficiently in 1st half of the game. But his usefulness faded away as I progressed in the game. So at high level they are not enough good I think, but I agree other single class druids are even worse than auramaster.
Prot. from Fire: You are right. Strange, I have never considered this about this spell.
EDE: When I am making the party I always try to use those classes which are good in 1st half of the game and in high end game also. Since EDE is the hardest encounter naturally I want characters who can do something in this fight also.
About immunities: I didn't make in the details, but in high and game you will encounter with golems, raksashas etc. There are many many enemies who cannot be affatected with most cleric or druid spells. Rakshashas immune to spells below lvl 7 AND they are immune to fire, magical damage, lighning etc. Golems are immune to almost any magic. I could continue, but the conclusion is caster clerics and druids can do very very few and little thing in high end game imho.
Regeneration: I think Greater Restoration is essential to beat IA now. It would be maybe good if there would be an option to bring druid instead of cleric, and druid should have a spell which could be close to Gr. Resto. Or if you dont want this, it would be good if druids could do some kind of mass regeneration even if it is much weaker than Gr. Resto. I know about auramester's Contact with Nature, but I would like to see druids to heal others also with a bit netter efficiency than they do now. In my mind healer/caster roles would be this:
wizard, sorcerer: very big offensive caster power, very very limited heal power (this is OK in IA now)
protector kit, paladins: good melee offensive power, limited healing power (this is OK also, although it seems to me Valygar will be better than any single class druid)
druid: medium heal power, medium offensive caster power (this is true in SoA except the last 2-3 battles, but not true in ToB) need more offensive and healing power at high leveles imho.
clerics: good healing power (this is OK in the game now), a little weaker offensive power than druids, but clerics should have effective spells at higher level also (this need a bit tuning in high end game)
About dual class: Dual classed clerics are one of the best characters in the game, and dual classed druids also good. What I would like to give a little boost to single class, more caster oriented versions of these classes to be viable option not to dual them. If you would put a good form change HLA for single class druids (with some resists and good melee power) they could be almost in pair with dual classed druids. (Dual would be still better maybe since they can change cast and hit anytime, while shapechanged druid has to shapechange out before casting and change back before hit.) I hope that new clerics spells will be good also.
Anyway thanks for fast reply Sikret, and thanks for considering some of my suggestion.
Vuki
Jul 23 2008, 11:05 AM
QUOTE(shadan @ Jul 23 2008, 12:52 PM)
Auramester:
Hehe, you mean here Auram
aster. The word "mester" is the hungarian version of "master".
QUOTE
Prot. from Fire: You are right. Strange, I have never considered this about this spell.
Blade rules when effective spell level counts.
Sikret
Jul 25 2008, 08:30 AM
@shadan
Rakshasas' immunity to 7th (and lower) level spells is a classic ability which exists in the vanilla game (and even in pnp AD&D) as well. It's not something new. In EDE, your main enemies are Rakshasas (accompanied with a few very powerful other foes). That's exactly why I said that EDE is an exception and should not be taken as a criterion for any discussion about the usefulness of clerical spells or to give suggestions to improve those spells.
Sikret
Jul 29 2008, 07:21 AM
Elhan is very conservative when talking with you about Irenicus and Bodhi. He thinks that their elven background and what they did is probably the most important secret of elven community which should not be discussed with others. Perhaps, he doesn't know that the elven city of Suldanesselar has one other and far more mysterious secret hidden behind its walls.
- How many of the residents of the city know about the mysterious staircase?
- What is that house with no entrance you see inside the city?
- What has happened in that house far long ago and how can one enter that building?
- Do you have the intention and courage to investigate the case and enter one of the most ancient, mysterious and dangerous adventures related to elven community?
The Ancient Secret of Suldanesselar
A new quest added to IA v6 (available only to ranger protagonists)
Shadan
Aug 4 2008, 10:33 AM
QUOTE
A new quest added to IA v6 (available only to ranger protagonists)
Well, I am very sad. I wanted to try an another protagonist in v6 than ranger. I palyed with vagrant in v5 mostly for new quests and now there is a new quest in v6 also only for rangers... Is it possible to make it available to ranger AND druid protagonists since druid stronhold will expanded in v6 also?
lroumen
Aug 4 2008, 10:36 AM
that sounds like a good idea
Sikret
Aug 4 2008, 11:55 AM
Do you mean that you intend to play IA v6 for only one single run?
One of the features of IA is its great replaying value. In IA v6, there will be new content for various classes.
Ryel ril Ers
Aug 4 2008, 12:34 PM
@Sikret:
some advise, keep it or not.
Do another ranger kit in v6.
Valygor is a protector in it, and the most players try the vagrant. Or the another solution boost up the beastmaster with new kit specific non-metal equipment, an summoning abilities at highter level. Also a good idea to boost up a bit the druid kits, and make new druid HLA and spells to high level.
It is possible to make the ranger-clerics forbidden. The most players choose it instead of the druids and fighter->druids. They stronger than the fighter->clerics and use the druid spells also. I don't understand this character conception. Why and how a ranger become cleric too?
These upgrades make these classes attractive.
Shadan
Aug 4 2008, 12:47 PM
QUOTE(Sikret @ Aug 4 2008, 11:55 AM)
Do you mean that you intend to play IA v6 for only one single run?
Yes I do. Since 1 play is too long comparing to my free time, so when I finish it a new v7 will be under development.
So I would be happy if you would make it to available to druids also.
Anyway, if I would intend to play it 2 times, lets suppose v7 won't come out within 2 years after v6 is released, then there is an opportunity to play mage (new mage quests) and druid (new upgraded stronghold). Personally only 1 or max. 2 new quests with another protagonist is not so attractive to spend half year with IA again. I prefer to play it aghain when more things are changed. Definitaley I don't want to play with ranger protagonist again for a while. So I hope druids can do this new quest also.
Kerkes
Aug 7 2008, 09:45 AM
Why oh why are riskbreakers not able to use 2-h weapons?? I can't force myself into playing them just because of this. Will this be changed in IA6?
Shadan
Aug 7 2008, 10:00 AM
When will be v6 realesed? I know there is not exact date, but an estimated one would be good also. I am waiting to play with it.
Raven
Aug 7 2008, 10:06 AM
QUOTE(Sikret @ Jan 3 2008, 09:06 AM)
Estimated Date of Release: March 2009
Taken from the first post in the topic.
Ryel ril Ers
Aug 7 2008, 11:44 AM
QUOTE(Vuki @ Jul 21 2008, 12:16 AM)
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Jul 20 2008, 11:14 PM)
About capping their spell progression - an IA there are TONS of scrolls if you're fast enough to kill mages before they use them on you, and bards can cast anything they wish from scrolls. For me, it's fine as it is, but if you wish to cap it, it's ok. Their armor alone is powerful enough to compensate for that.
I have only one problem with this "spell progression capping". Standard AD&D rules allow the bards to cast 6th level spells and Sikret would like to reduce it to 5th level. I understand his reasons (this way bards cannot cast - except from scrolls - PfMW and Tenser) but I think it is really a bad solution. When standard AD&D allow something and you are not able to do it then it is always a pain. It is understandable when it is technically not possible (like restriction for dual-classes), so no one complaint but when it is just made because of game balance then it is really difficult to accept.
I understand you don't like this tweak. I didn't like it first time too. Lots of people love the bards. Yes they cannot cast level 6 spells in the next time what is a big loss. But the tenser able to cast from elemental staffs and you cannot renew your protections in it so that is not a big loss. The PoMW is usefull but only when you are in near death. Lots of enemy don't bother with if you use it instead starts to attack the unprotected party members. They lost the option to use spell protection with highter level than SI, but it is only balance. They able to cast SI, Mirror image, Blur, Stoneskin so they will able to tank well in the next version. They also have very high casting level. They able to sing, use time trap, cast any spell from scroll, use potions, wands and the armor will remain too. They will be useful in the next version so don't bury them. Haer'Dalis a very powerful character now and he will be useful in the next version in my opinion.
This isn't the standard D&D. The D&D is a heroic role playing game with horde of mistakes and unbelievable things. The anvil isn't a heroic game, instead this is a dark or low fantasy. Sikret doesn't do madness.
-Madness? This is ANVIL!!!
Shadan
Aug 7 2008, 12:06 PM
QUOTE(Raven @ Aug 7 2008, 10:06 AM)
QUOTE(Sikret @ Jan 3 2008, 09:06 AM)
Estimated Date of Release: March 2009
Taken from the first post in the topic.
OMG, it is tooooo long wait... Maybe I have to play v5 another time... Hmm, I will think about it.
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