Thanks for the advice, can't use it yet, - don't know much about lighting, using SK's basic setup for now.
Q: Does it make sense to keep all the details for buildings in separate files and just merge them when needed?

Castle! (SK, chamfering all the way, where needed and where not )

[attachment=3320:FLast.png]

Somebody asked for ref pictures, here are some:

[attachment=3321:REF.png]

well with everything 3d there is more than one way. but as of lately I have been enjoying using the merge.

where needed or not is good for the future

SK, when you have time, could you explain how to do chipped walls or ruins...
In the tutorial there is very little info.

why dont you paste a pic showing where you want the damage and maybe the 3ds file in zipped form or load it to ftp.

I want a hole in the wall and a chipped corner (and a million bucks)

[attachment=3322:AreaT.png]

Link to max file

http://www.blackwyrmlair.net/~herd/Flast.max

does the hole go all the way through or is it just a huge bashed portion?

huge bashed portion

DL wanted his walls ruined, that is why I want to learn it asap

it looked mostly like a good solid build but I added some geometry one of the towers for the following operation works better with quad sided.

All you have to do is go to the create panel
change from Standard Primitives to Compound Objects

Select the tower and pick Boolean

under the parameters make sure it is set to Subtraction A-B
Click the 'Pick Operands B' button
then select the Chunk01 object

this should remove the part you wanted. you can click undo and make the shape closer to what you wanted. then try again. please note where the center of Chunk01 from the top VP and notice that I left the center slightly outside of center to save on unneeded polys.

once that is looking good you can move on to the Blast01 object. BTY I left the modifiers on this object so you can change or delete them note the quad sphere .

you might want to get in to the good habit of good/unique naming of you objects, this will save you many headaches with selecting and merging because you will have a half a million boxes.

if you needed to make any changes to the boolean objects just convert them to editable polys again.

some notes: I moved the outer vertices of the window so that they were all level with the others. added extra edges to make quad sided polys. detached the polys that made the window grates to its own object. this will make editing geometry and mapping of both objects. then I added a small detail to the ramparts that you can clone, edit, or delete.

Thanks , now I have a lot of new stuff to study.
Just learned about Compound Objects half an hour ago, while attempting to make random Grass
Lots of fun, but computer complains, when I ask it to make 8000 copies and scatter

if I was not so busy with RL I would have gotten back to ya hours ago.
grass? you got a PM

oh and I also pulled in the chamfers on the one tower I edited

Yep, SK is right, boolean operator and some chunk object - the most easiest way... also you can try to create some deformations without it, like meshsmoothing some part of object (few polygons are enough), and the move vertices the way you want them... Because Boolean method does not always work the way you want it to be deformed...

Everything works, except for the SpeedTree (failed to install properly)
After running the first (.exe) file, the second one (or the CAB folder) doesn't appear.
n/p
Doing trees manually, the difference between 1st and 2nd take gives me hope!
(as I understand so far, the leaves can't be in shape of leaves to scatter well...?)

[attachment=3326:T1.png]

How do you do it? By choosing all the polygons, or there is an easier way?

After removing the chunk from the wall, I should cap it and put texture over again, right?
Thanks, everybody, for your help and SK for all the fixes in the bulding!

speedtree is the way to go if you trees are to have leaves.because they use a 1 poly panel of leaves instead of a group of many polyed leaves.

select polys one by one or you can use the grow and shrink buttons. you can hold down Ctrl to continue to add to your selection or Alt to remove from you selection.

after use the detach button you can detach to element but in this cast I detached to object.

Having fun with plants
Q: What tool/modifier to use to make garden ground and edges random (distorted)? Displace?

[attachment=3329:strawb.png]

Almost died, but scaled/rendered grass.
Is this the right height?

[attachment=3330:02_DL.png]

nice tomatoes, the plant part should not concern you so much since you are not close enough to really tell the difference. my thinking is make 3 plants rotate rotate them 33 degrees and then you have 9 fairly random enough then add or remove some fruit.
and if anyone can tell the difference tell them to learn 3d and do it better.
however I would shrink the tomato plant in the house pic to about 40% of it current size

I would not be the least bit surprised that your comp almost died. that model is totally not to be used as a model but to make maps with, with alpha channels, and other bits of trickery. it is a bit of 'faking' that is acceptable since the polygon count would kill even the best super computers if everything was 'exact'.

but it looks good on the hight near the house but not on the main, since edging has not been perfected in the dark ages as it is today\

I like the mullions in the windows

I made them bigger, so you could see, those are strawberries

And my question about the soil...
Q: What tool/modifier to use to make garden ground and edges random (distorted)? Displace? Noise?

ah I see strawberries now.

so you want the soil to blend with grass?
I would not count on geometry for this.
I would use a mix map with the soil in one channel and the grass in the other
then make a grayscale map in 2d with aprox. dimensions of the soil ant that goes into the mix channel. The closer the ratio of length to width the better it will look on the model. the larger the map the better detail, however it does not have to be a big map at all could be something like 16x64

Mix map, mix channel sounds too difficult, without tutorials will be lost.
To make houses look worn out like this:
[attachment=3333:StoneBroken.png]
Should I use the same method
Compound Objects --->Boolean---->Subtraction A-B (only thinner)
or is it done with special textures?

I know, you can't have windows like this in BG, but I like the glass' reflection

[attachment=3332:05_DL.png]

is that mine? if so I just made a 2d texture using layers and cutting out portions. but then I used normal map plugin to make it look like it is bumpy. then added the beams

you can have reflective glass in bg look at iron throne building

your chamfers are looking much smoother much more realistic

if you use repeating textures you might want to make sure that they are seamless, I know psp can make them easily so I'd guess that ph can too.

Yes, will try


Usualy I make sure they look good (was too lazy to fix it here, there is so much more interesting stuff in 3D), but I do it by hand.
There is a tool?

tool for what? making seamless textures? best I can figure is that you do it in image ready (why does photoshop make everything so difficult) you might have to ask someone else that knows ph

Found tutorial, not exactly a tool, but still
posting link for ref, if somebody ever needs it
http://www.freeseamlesstextures.com/textur...rials/index.htm

Dosn't look old yet, - looks like a cow with spots, but for now I am very happy with it

[attachment=3334:05wornout_DL.png]

it is coming along nicely.
did you use a bump map on the windows to get that effect? looks cool

on your brick layer in ph you can scuff up the brick add some paint

slightly off topic
you can assign bitmaps different channels.

here is how:
take a globe and assign a bitmap to it.
under map channel you can assign 1 to 99
then just add uv coordinates (UVW Map) pick planar, box, what have you.
then under channel of the modifier change that to whatever tou made it on the material editor.

Yes, bump on glass, love them
Now collecting nice ones, - something other than prison fence.

As for material editor, there are so many maps and then their maps, - already got lost inside couple of times.
But if I follow your instructions precisely, usually get it from first take, thanks (and for the new word - mullions, eh!)

The only thing that I have no idea how to make, before seriously starting with DL's area, is the terrain itself (hills and pits)

are you using raytrace for the reflections? if not tell me how you are doing it, if so that uses a lot of comp power, once you have the glass set to how you want it you can uncheck the raytrace until final render, that will save a lot of time rendering.

hehe there is a lot of stuff in3d and a lot more.
I use a lot of those maps because I am not an artist, if I were, all I would use is bitmaps. I do generally stick to bitmaps, noise maps, and maybe smoke or cellular, jsut for some randomness. oh and in almost every scene I use multi sub-object.

tut to follow.

look in to displace (WSM), displace approx, and displace. for more info.

what I like to do is to create a grayscale map in 2d black/dark gray background.
paint on with white opacity set at about 10-30% and just draw out some places where higher elevations will be (the lighter the higher) don't make this to complex for you first go round.
then since some times that is 'to perfect' I take a small smudge brush and smudge some of the elevations so there are streaks.
save and use that as your displace map.
now the more dense you map the higher the detail but it is going to cost you a bunch of wasted polys if you do not create you mesh correctly.
if you take a plane and give it 100 length and 100 width segments that will a fairly dense mesh depending your render size you would be at 20,000 polys and it will not be detailed enough where you need it.

we will make a (dry) river bed
so lets start out with a plane with 1 and 1 segments.
load your map you made in the diffuse channel and add that material to your plane. make sure you have the 'Show Map In Viewport' depressed.

under "edit geometry" in either object mode or sub-object mode (vert. edge, poly) you will find a cut button depress that and cut new polys where you need elevation changes. 2 lines should be good for now, on either side of the river.

if you look at the image the purple lines are the original edges.
Red are vertices
blue are the first lines you cut
the green are the connecting lines. to create these go to vertice and select 2 vertices you want to connect and click connect. repeat as needed.
select all edges that have the pink dashes and hitting the box next to connect (you chose the number of connections (3 should be enough) the connect button will remember your last choice). these are the light blue lines.
finish off cutting in (pink lines) making good quad sided geometry. (we are just roughing in for now)

now add a 'Displace' modifier.
in the image area under bitmap a button says none click it and load you displace map that you made. you can skip the none button under map.
to make the geometry show elevation change the strength to what to you seems correct.
It is real rough now, so lets click edit poly in the stack (under displace modifier) under the 'Subdivision Surface' rollout, uncheck 'Isoline Display' and click 'Use Nurms Subdivision' make iterations 1.
render and the geometry should be much smother.
still a little rough? then uncheck the Nurms. and cut in more geometry.
you can add in more, represented in orange, note the oval shape cut if you do something like that is is good to remove the edges with orange dots to again keep everything quad sided
since most of the excitemint is at the edges of the river bank you might want to add more geometry there (dark red line).

you just keep adding geometry as you see fit. if you hit the 7 key it will show a poly count for the object you are working on try to keep the plane to <1000 polys.

Thanks!
Yes, I am using Raytrace (actually this is the material you made when we were making crystals)
Will uncheck in the Map list.

Q: Is it better to scale everything in max, or to do Image Size in photoshop?
How many percent do you usually change model's size to match game size?

there is a way to make the raytraced material a regular bitmap. just render the windows themselves and anything that gets reflected and make a map that way it is not as clear but old glass probably should not be but it is probably more of a pain in the ass than just unchecking the map.

well you can't scale up in photoshop (other 2d software) well. I try to make everything to scale the first time that way even when scaling down it still looks right. it kind of gets fuzzy when scaling down.

edit: you can make everything in proportion to each other and just zoom in or out the camera to fit and /or change the render size

About the old houses - here´s the one I made a few months ago... SK would recognize... maybe he already posted it somewhere...

[attachment=3342:House01J.jpg]

yeah that is a great replica of a SoA house.

no I have not posted it anywhere yet.

Did not have enough time and skill to follow through SK's tut till the end.
Went back to learn maps and modifiers, made this terrain with regular Displace.

[attachment=3345:terrain.png]

Added stones, lights, camera - looks almost like BG1 (but not 3d)

[attachment=3346:terrainKamushki.png]

Will see what could be squeezed out of this method by changing setting and textures.

Grass and Sand

[attachment=3347:terrainGrass_Sand.png]

Grass and Stone

[attachment=3348:terrainGrass_Stone.png]

looks good whats the poly count? its got to be high fr that level of detail

second pic looks like nashkel mines area, throw grasses and some scrub plants and you'll be all set

what it says in tut
don't know how to count polys

here is the source
from 3dtotal.com --->tuts --->3dMax--->beginners--->'Smart Terrain'
by Cristian "Freespace" Alexandru Ciocotisan

that is a lot.
2 ways 1. select object and hit 7 on your keyboard. 2. frome the create tab move the mouse over to the hammer icon that is the utilities tab there should be a Polygon counter, if it is not there you can click the more button and add it.

you mean http://www.3dtotal.com/team/tutorials_2/te.../terrain_01.asp (links are easier to use btw)
this is a great time to create a normal map and cut your poly count by a couple of 00's unless you are making a Hollywood movie you don't need a crazy poly count like that.
you can find a max 3dsmax.chm or a tut in 3dsmax_t.chm to find out how. or in a vid but you don't really have to make a model smaller like they say.

but if you dont mind rendering millions of polys forget what I suggest.

Remembered about "Lather" tool, made a temple

[attachment=3376:Temple1.png] [attachment=3377:Temple2.png]

Q: What is the "Lattice" tool for ? (does wierd things, especially in the corners of the model)
What is the "Show safe frame" in the camera view does ? (what is supposed to be safe?)

I kind of liked the first image better (blue windowed one)
I have yet to find a practical use for lattice besides make a bunch of polys.
safe frame is the actual portion that will be rendered. if you are rendering an image that is twice as wide as it is tall, w/o safe frame checked the viewport will show more than what you will actually render.

This is in no way a finished product, just learning how to attach/detach polys and other details.

Still not giving up on plants

[attachment=3378:zSunFlowers.png]


SK, you gave me once these flowers in 2d, but if there ever were a 3dMax file for them, I would love to take a look.

[attachment=3379:zFlowers50.png]

those are oblivion's plants. I thought you had them.
since you cant see all the details (for use in the IE) you could make those single poly plants with just those images. breaking each plant into its own image.

load one of those plants into your mat.editor
just copy the diffuse channel to the opacity channel
then in under "Bitmap Parameters" in the "Mono Channel Output"
* if the image is a png with a transparent background leave it at "RBG Intensity"
* if the image has an alpha channel (like a tga) select "Alpha"
then apply that to a plane (plane should be created top VP)

select that plane and right click on it
select properties
and un-check the "Cast Shadows" located under the Rendering control section

you could do that with your new sunflowers too
render them in the proper 45 degree angle and apply them to plane you created in the top VP
you do not have to render them very big no bigger than what they will be in your final scene render. so 64x64 might even be big for 1 flower.

EDITED last post
top VP not left/front
also added more to the last paragraph.

A note about lathe:
when you make your spline make sure all the vertices are selected and right click them and select corner this will reduce your poly count without sacrifice. Because if you have bezier or bezier corners when it is converted you will have a ton of vertices that you do not need (this can be controlled by the interpolation the higher the number the higher the vert count). You can also save this step before you create your spline you can change the drag type to corner (located in the 'Creation Method' section.

You might have noticed that there is a black spot(s) on you model that you might not have understood. this is common when you either have non-quad geometry of an overlap of faces.

I don't use lathe much I like the border extrude method much better, I think it gives you more control.

I like lather because it seems that models made with it are easier to texture.

I was wandering about the black spots, my guess is, in order to eliminate them, the original spline should be created more carefully ( besides what you suggested above )

Q about this reference picture: was it made by hand out of planes/splines? I wanna try something like this for building's "siding"(?).

[attachment=3385:ahouse_005.png]

could be done a couple of different ways. but this looks like a polygonal Cluster F**k, you do not have to build photo real. since you are over 100 ft away in an IE view and not in a 3d environment
However if I was going to make it I'd start with a cone or cylinder and build one level then clone move up and rotate

looks like the maker there used about 36 sides. for the main tower portion. so create a cone/cylinder with 36 sides, 1 height, and 1 cap.
then selecting one poly at a time on the vertical side and use bevel from edge select the top edge of that poly and pull up/down to get it right. if bevel does not work extrude from edge will but you will have go to select vert and scale the 2 new verts horizontally.

once you have one ring done this is when you clone up and rotate.

same principal for the roof.

walls look like they were made with boxes 3 or more length segments, move some of the verts to give it a warped look.

the bottom pieces could have been been created by extrude (poly) along spline
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
personally I would make a model like this but not use it in a scene I would use it as a texture maker and bake the normal map and diffuse maps. then make a box for the wall, a cylinder for the tower, and a cone for the roof. then apply my new textures to them, this would cut my poly count to maybe 300-600? instead of 30,000? +
then if I wanted to make a bit of added detail I could use the bevel/extrude from edge on just a few key polys that are located on the edge of the building depending on where you have it placed (rotated) in your scene.
but people do not notice these things so why bother. I took a big chunk out of a building that I made and no one noticed it, so that was a few hours wasted.

It is hard to find a good wood texture, so I thought of using bark texture+bump and other maps.
This looks like another solution, more time consuming, but I still want to try, since I am learning new stuff anyway.


For now I render each building/piece of empty terrain separately then put area together with photoshop (like from screenshots), so poly count doesn't bother me too much, unless:
Does poly count affect anything else besides rendering time?

oh I though you were making all in 3d.
as far as ie is concerned no but how long is ie going to last?

What is ie ?

infinity engine what bg uses

or internet explorer what SK not uses