Oh, IE ...
So jcompton was right, SK is out to get BG with 3D!

About rendering: Don't they have mainframe/deepblue comps to do it?

what?

no unless you are making a movie like Pixar does

Couldn't find actual post, but I remember when publishing of 3D tutorials was discussed, jc said that it will be a distraction for modders
I never seen an area made for 3D game, but suspect that puting it together with photoshop won't work, so low-poly will be important.

Making yellow brick road

[attachment=3415:YBRoad.png]

cool. looks good

Stucco looks good to use for pumpkins, but wouldn't work as bump map. Is it normal?

Dried pumpkins !
[attachment=3429:Pumpkins.png]

hmm if my comp worked I could check but iirc stucco is not heavily contrasted you can up your bump level, or maybe you can tweak stucco prameters.
also change the specular levels and gloss but keep the gloss to 10 (if that is not the default)

about glossiness
When making material for metal parts which method is better : self-illumination or specular + glossiness or other. I know, there is a special tool under shader basic parameters in material editor, but want something quick till I learn it. When an object put in the area, does the sunlight interfere with materials like these?

[attachment=3431:Eggplant.png]

self-illumination should only be used if the item is giving off its own light, fire, glowing metal, etc.
so yeah you can use metal (instead of blinn)

I do not understand "does the sunlight interfere with materials like these" do you mean interact? if so, then yes, sort of, it actually interacts with the object.

nice veggies btw!

Accidentally discovered “line with smooth points”. Is there a way to make it move in all directions (all planes) when creating?

Probably bug? : when merging objects, if there is the same material in the scene, there is an option “Auto-rename material”. Comp freezes every time it’s clicked and says 100% CPU usage.
(Extremely proud of the basket )

[attachment=3435:korzinka.png]

lines when creating? no (not that I am aware). however you can create your shape with the right 2d shape then move the points in the 3rd direction later. I would stay away from smooth points. too much unneeded geometry.
If I want a smooth line I create one with the very least amount of points/verts. and only 3-4 sides, once that is roughly correct I convert it to poly and add a nurbs sub-division (much like a turbo smooth but easily removed and re-added)

you can also make odd widening and narrowing lines too. I think you can see the controls at the bottom of the spline rollouts (modify panel) but I cant remember for sure... damn I need to get my comp fixed x

Naming things (objects and materials) correctly and uniquely will prevent that. It is very important that you develop good habits when doing 3d. 2 things are important 1 is correctly naming things and 2 making good geometry.

real nice basket

well it took some time to remember what it was to make vines or tentacles (basically a cone shape that has a lot of bends).

here is how to make a vine on the ground:
make a line in the top viewport with as few points as needed to give the vine as natural appearance but no more (this will be your path). we'll be adding a smoothing modifier later.
you can refine your spline to add more vertices if needed using the refine button and clicking where you need them.

Move the points up/down, left/right, and back/forth until it is exactly where you want them to be.

Then create a rectangle (located next to line) in the front VP (this will be your shape).

Re-select your line then on the create panel go back to geometry. Then from the pulldown menu select compound objects. Select loft. keep it instanced (not copy nor move)

then just under the creation method rollout, select 'get shape' and click the rectangle, so far so good.

ok lets clean this up a bit:
under the skin parameters rollout, change the shape step and path steps to 0. since we do not need any more geometry.

now move to deformations:
click bevel, a window will open. this window is a curve editor (for lack of better term). You can add control points, move the points up or down and the ones you add you can move left and right. play around with them to get the feel of what does what.

Once that is done and everything is nice you can convert it to an editable poly if you wish but since you 'instanced your shapes you can change the shapes and your loft will change with it.

now convert to poly, then under the subdivision surface, check use NURMS subdivision, and un check Isoline display (to see all the divisions)

SK, thanks! After seeing this pic [attachment=3438:loft_object_menu.png]
in the tutorial , was looking for loft/path tool all over (my head wasn’t that clear after 3 days strait with max), decided that my version didn’t have it.
My blue dream is to make the line move in odd directions so it wont look like even spring and still go around objects.
Maybe with Noise or Distort or some other modifier?
[attachment=3440:liana.png]

I am going through all the tools, trying to learn as much as possible before fixing DL’s area for real.
Thanks to Array and Groups no more cloning-rotating by hand!
[attachment=3441:bochki.png]
Are specular/glossiness only seen if the surface is spherical, always have to apply turbosmooth?
(already developed bad geometry habits, poly count increases!)
was going for old, polished-with-elbows look on the table
[attachment=3439:01_DvorInn1_80.png]

I have a tendency to stay away from too many geometry modifiers, maybe that is why it takes me so long to make things.

start a spline with very few vertices just enough to get the general shape of your vine, no more than 6 then use the refine to make the jagged lines softer and smother. I find this method the fastest most natural.

on array there is also a tool that will clone along a path (again just using a spline) this could be useful for rail tracks or some other path.

specular mimics the reflection of real light. it is based on geometry but set them to what the object is made of i.e. water/wet surface will have a high gloss level where concrete would not. look around your (real) room at different objects and see how light reflects on the corners, flat surfaces, bends, and dents. notice the change in their own gloss levels.

no you dont always have to use a smoothing modifier I only use them on organic objects. but I build their geometry very low then add a smooth so the result is still a fairly low poly model.

if you notice if you smooth a long shape like a rectangle the ends collapse when you add a smooth. if you remove those ends before that it wont look so odd.

in the pic note that vertices do not need to be present on straight places on the spline and it would still look smooth.

Success!

[attachment=3443:liana1.png]

Bevel tool is a little difficult to master though.
Leaves look horrible, but I start to get the idea how they should be modeled to look better in scatter.

Based on what I read on the web, came to think that pros doing all fancy modeling only with splines - vertex by vertex. I realize that details are very important for models to look BG-stile (like yours), not like plastic toys (mine)

looks good!
yeah splines are nice. when you make your line you can check (under creation method) 'corner' to keep vertices count low.

I don't use models for leaves I use images w/alpha layers (I might have made these leaves in 2-3d) on a plane, the level of detail (LOD) for bg does not need modeled leaves but feel free to continue. you might come across poor shadows using planes and images w/alpha layers. there is a way to 'fake shadows' w/o using costly 'advanced raytraced shadows' in a final render.
here is a good tutorial http://www.the123d.com/tutorial/general2/shadow01.shtml

Can't believe it , but it all works!

[attachment=3444:lianagrapes1.png]

Only one thing I would really like to know about 3d plants is how to make moss (on buildings and walls mostly)
Read about composite materials, but didn't try.

Sometimes I add moss and mildew to the map/texture I am using in 2d. If not I use mix maps . I think I went over mix maps with you once, and is my choice for adding moss if not done entirely in 2d.

composite uses the images alpha to determine how the final image should be displayed tho it can be a bit complex, since you can add, subtract, and multiply(?) depending on how it is set.

3ds can use photoshop images (.psd) it can utilize its layers as well. you can tell 3ds to use a flattened version or the layered one, however you can only use one layer per channel. so if you have 5 layers you need to use 5 channels.

(Ill have to confirm this later to be 100% sure but I think it will work)
this can be nice when using composite since you can copy the file name and paste it in all the needed channels and just change the channel to match the correct layer. again you can name your layers and I believe that is saved in the image as well.

Does this mix map look right?
[attachment=3448:mix_map.png]
I was going for smth like this, whith more volume: [attachment=3450:moss_wall.bmp]
Probably wouldn't be noticeable in the game anyway.
[attachment=3449:moss_map.png]

I cant see the first one very well but the second one rocks! are you using a bump map to puff up the moss?

Nope, using bad geometry
Clone tower---->scale 105%---> turbosmooth * 2 (to multiply polygons)---> select polys for moss (delete others)--->
extrude 5---> turbosmoth---> scale back---> texture (material with bump)

Edit: Or using a box with lots of segments (same process)

(1) extruded vertices + smooth (2)amount of moss - scaling (3)without smooth looks almost like leaves!
[attachment=3452:moss_sample.png]

Here are mixed and unmixed next to each other:
[attachment=3451:mixed_moss.png]

heh heh as long as it is working for you

um sorry that might have sounded mean, I did not mean it that way. I did find you response funny tho

The meaner the better! SK, don't worry, I am taking it all the right way

Q about missing .tga files in speedtree: can I make my own or how to modify existing? Know nothing about it and when trying to save file, it loses transparency.

Yeah, it´s just like SK said, as long as it works for you, it´s ok. But if you´ll go into a real complex scene, with let´s say 1mil. polygons, you´ll pay attention to every polygon that is not really needed. I would suggest to think about using normal bump mapping, which can make the very same result without increasing polygon count. E.g. Photoshop Normal Bump plugin will do normal bump maps for you from standard colored texture...

Just an idea, no offence, of course, the work looks great.

None taken
Unfortunately my knowledge of tools is still very limited, so for now I try to get models to look as close as possible to the desired result no matter the cost and improve and simplify later. Poly count doesn't bother me too much only because I render parts of the picture and put them together in photoshop, later these bad habits will bite me in the ...
So, all suggestions are very valuable now.

.tga uses alpha channel. You can add a channel view in photoshop just like a layer view in fact you can use it in the same window.

.png uses transparency and not an alpha channel. these might be easier to deal with.

yeah normal maps rock. it is also fairly easy to create them in 3ds too and are more accurate.

Yep, SK is right, 3ds can make normal maps, too... And they are accurate because they are created directly from a model.

Didn't have time to do Normal maps, but mix maps are working (have to have the right map though).
At least now I have an idea what you, guys, were talking about
[attachment=3460:mossmixbump.png]

um just so there is no confusion Val and I are talking about something called a "Normals Bump Map"

it is a much more defined bumping system then grayscale bumps + you can grayscale bump maps with normal bump maps, thus having 2 bump maps.

If you have NVIDIA normal map plugin you can take any diffuse map and open it in photoshop run the plugin on it and it will convert it to a normals map. this takes very little time but is 100% accurate.

It is important to note that: most tutorials will have you making a lower poly model to use. this is not a 100% accurate statement.
you can clone an exact replica for this purpose or a 1 poly plane. the idea is to make a 2d map. if you use an exact replica you have to assign a UVW map flatting modifier first. if your model is not hugely complex (with the mesh going in many directions say a jagged cliff face) you're better off using the 1 poly plane.

some/most of the tutorials you will find on normals are about human faces iirc.
but say you want a simple bridge made of rough sawn lumber you can make the model with very high detail this will come with a very high poly count as well. putting in the saw marks (in the pic above) and individual boards (Right)
We will create a 'normals map' for the boards and a 'grayscale map' for the saw marks
Now if you make a model with the shape of the lower pic using extruded rounded rectangles and convert them to poly.
then use the attach function to make them one object.

Then create a plane about the same length and width as your model name them something that you can know which one is which (I call mine high and low for the poly count)
Align them so that the plane is just below the high poly model
(make sure that your low poly plane is selected)
hit 0 (zero) on your keyboard, this brings up a menu.

this is all from memory so if it does not work check a 'how to make normals map tut'
there is a place asking where you want to save your file. do that.
click 'Pick'. this asks what model you want to use for the high poly model, so pick that one.
Under Output click 'Add' and a list will pop up select 'normals'

the default extension is .TGA but you can use any format, I use png so I can see it in windows explorer to see if it made it correctly.

if you look at the modifier stack of your low poly it should have a project modifier on it.
click on that making it highlighted in yellow.
and click the + to expand it.
the default should be fine.
scroll down the roll outs to Cage rollout and check shaded (this is for your own visual benefit it has not other purpose)
important click reset. this resets the cage to something closer to where you want it.
Now you want to go to push. you will push the cage to encompass your high poly model. so as you push look in the viewport to se when it is fully encased.
the shaded cage should be on the outside of your high poly model EVERYWHERE. if not you will get solid red (rbg 255,0,0) instead of pastel colors. you will have to go back and move the vertices of the CAGE until they are correct .
once that is done bring back your 'render to texture' menu or hit the 0 key again.
depending on your poly count and render size it can take some time so for now just use the 128 size. once you see that there is no blemishes you can choose a larger map size.

once everything is perfect open you mat. edit. click on the bump slot and select normal bump. load your map you just created (making sure it is added to the low poly model and you have hidden the high poly model).
hit F9 to render your scene.

to increase or decrease you normal bump amount change it from 1 to something different but careful making it too high might cause 3ds to crash or it did mine) consider 2.5 fairly high.

now you can add a fine lines bump map to make the saw marks or some distressed marks
and you will be done

Nice normals tut here.

Great tut, SK... just as I thought...

Good stuff

thanks hope it made sense.

EDIT: I ordered my comp parts this morning so I should be back to doing 3d soon.

[attachment=3468:42_moss.png] [attachment=3466:42_moss_Normal.png]

NIVIDIA plug-in does what I want very well - every little needle gets bumped
[attachment=3467:mossNormalbump300.png]

Will take more time for me to understand the whole unwrap thing.

Edit: So, the difference between grayscale and normal bumps is only in the level of detail?
And when it is done with unwrap, even more so?

nice
a softer opacity map might help softening the hard edges of the grass

unwrapping: think of how you would apply a a flat paper map to an orange, unless you are a master at origami most of us would peal the orange and lay its skin flat and cut the map in pieces then glue it on to the skin then place the skin back on the orange.
in essence this is what the unwrap modifier does. it will flatten the UVW points then you place them where you want them. this is useful on complex models.
the default is 45 this is the angle to which the pieces relative to their neighboring face will be cut, the higher the number the less pieces.

my suggestion is not to try to learn this on a complex model with complex textures but on a simple one until you understand the concept.

yes LoD think of normals as high def TV vs. a standard TV

no unwrap will not produce more detail it just allows you to place the texture coordinates correctly.

I understand the concept of "pealing the orange", but can't imagine how it will be modified later. Each part of the unwrapped map textured separately?

Tried a different way to make broken plaster (spline-extrude-chamfer). Doesn't look as good as I thought it would.

[attachment=3471:plaster.png]

well I could post screen shots but my comp is still down, my memory (4 gb!) got delivered today but still waiting for mobo maybe tomorrow.
but if your model changes your coordinates might need to be modified again too.

hmm yeah not so good but you are trying new things this is good you might want to keep the extrusion to a smaller number. keeping it a bit more subtle.

when you use the unwrap modifier it flattens the vertices of your model (not your map) (again depending on how you use it) on to your texture map. the vertices become uvw points (edges become segments, etc) this tells 3ds where to place texture on the face/poly.

try this in 2d; make a map with 3 distinctive colors (primary colors are a good choice). save it.

in 3d; create a cube, un-check the add mapping coordinates.
load your 2d map and add it to your model.
add a uvw unwrap modifier to it and use flatten or normal flatten (whatever it is called) it should show 3 to 6 boxes these are the faces of your cube. and you can move them anywhere you want for different looks.

you can choose vertice (default), segment, or poly. to make your selections
you can break joining vertices, edges, or polys and you can stitch them back together. (I think in the tools pulldown)
play around with making them perfectly aligned or really messed up.

but once you have them set you can collapse the (modifier) stack and mess with the models vertice positions and the mapping stays with it
then if you want to change the mapping coordinates again just add another unwrap on the stack.

A-ha, now I understand how it assigns texture to whatever surface you create in flattened map (and then can be modified with stitching and other tools)

[attachment=3472:99untitled.png]

But here it gave me only one texture when flattened - I had 3!

[attachment=3473:999untitled.png]

Edit: Sorry, after actually thinking for one moment, realized that this was the purpose of the unwrap map - all textures in one.

My first unwrap map

[attachment=3474:untitledtext1.png]

So, textures should be as high resolution as possible, the size of the original texture map doesn't matter much?

very nice,
only one major problem is a AOL search toolbar on you comp AAaaAaawww! you should run some malware utilities on your system
if you are to use a map and unwrap feature like that then yes high resolution. think of your render size of that building you image does not have to be bigger than that in fact maybe 1/2 the size if you are also adding bump mapping.
it is also real nice to be able to map out stone arches and other rounded, curved, or twisted objects

EDIT:
oh sorry missed your first post.
you can remove the annoying the grid (you can also snap to grid but I never use it) by going to
Options, Advanced Options and un-checking the grid.
also un-checking the use custom bitmap size on an image that is not square will keep the aspect ratio.

Woohoo! I fixed my comp!!!

Congratulations, SK, don't throw out your notes, will be a good tut someday!

well my comp is working but this new mobo's sound messed up so I have to return it. now I have to find a new one.

EDIT: Scratch that I got that fixed too, man M$ sucks the update driver function is worthless had to go to asus.com to get the driver, but now it works!!

Learning to make rubble with reactor.
[attachment=3570:rubble3.png]

Need help finding “World rollout” in Max.
[attachment=3569:reactor.PNG]

( from http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/pi..._of_rubble.htm)

Never tried reactor
check here

[attachment=3572:reactor1.PNG]

Looks like I don't have it in max 7, maybe only in 8

you are not looking at the rollout menu. every time it says rollout it is on the right.
go to the hammer icon, past the create past the modify tabs. this is the "utilities" tab. reactor should be there if not click the more button.
btw I have max 7 as well.

Found it. Thanks!
On the same site there is a tut "Replacing Scatter Using Pflow", it looks like a pretty good method.
But this one is definitely done in max 9.
I remember you've tried pflow before, so if you'll have a minute to scroll through it and see if it could be done in 7
(if there are enough tools)?
http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/pf...low_scatter.htm

yeah it is nothing out of the norm just pfow.

yeah it is nothing out of the norm just pfow.
pflow and reactor seems like kind of a lot of work to scatter some rocks in a still shot are you going to animate any of this?