Instead of a nice girl like in tut, got Shaquille O'Neal.
When converted to poly or mesh, tons of vertices appeared (why?),
had to edit as a patch. Mesh smooth did not work well either because of it.
Is there a way in Max to stop a process, if I know I’ve made a mistake?
(Ctrl+Alt+Delete doesn’t work)

[attachment=3033:HeadTake2.png]

when you have a surface modifier there is a section in the parameters that says 'Patch Topology' the steps are too high. set it to 0 or 1. but the higher the number the more subdivisions you will have.

as far as the seam in the middle it seems to me that you did not scale the middle edge verticies.
when you have the half face selected and vertex sub-object selected.
Drag a selection box around center face vertices ONLY.
select scale.
make sure "Use Selection Center" is the mode you have as well. (right side of the word 'View' in the drop down box.
Grab just the X on the Transform Gizmo and pull to the left, till 1 or 0
then mirror and weld the common verticies.

I would never recommend you use mesh or turbo smooth on something that is not a low poly build. and with the surface steps set to 5 it is not low

when you mirror use instance. so when you change some part of the geometry on one side it also changes the other saving you a lot of work. you can make it unique real easily before you attach the other half.

no there is no way to stop the processes some times just try not to get to carried away with the polys

looks real good for an O'neal

Yep, it is much better now, thanks !
One more Q. about missing files :
Mtl libraries, what should I have? I’ve heard ppl download it from official site or somewhere else.
(while rendering with texture it did ask me about UVW coordinates this time, so will try to read about it, sounds too complicated)

[attachment=3034:Head02.png]

material lib's. are imo your bitmaps and procedural textures. of the later things like cellular, noise, and dent are some nice 3d types then there are also 2d types too; checker, bitmaps, tiles.
you can download simbiontMax they are real nice but take a lot of time to render. quick dirt is another.

any time you you have 2d maps on odd shapes it will give that warning. 3ds does not know how to map it correctly you will have to tell it.

the face is a very complex thing to do right so don't kill yourself trying to get it right the first time out just focus steps and concept of the construction process.
but I'll tell you what, that is looking pretty damn good keep it up!

Evolution of my plant
Used UVW coordinates in this! I think for the leaf texture (have to go back to tut and check )

[attachment=3035:Plant1.png]

Not bad at all.

About Mtl libraries - it´s just an .mtl file which stores informations about your currently used bitmaps and materials. After its creation you can freely use it in any scene you want, just pick it up from Material Editor. Of course, it contains not the bitmaps and materials itself, more like references to these. So if you move your bitmaps texture files somewhere else and won´t let Max know about their new location, it will always show you a pop-up window with a warning message it´s missing them. Then you´ll have to learn him their new loaction... No big deal either.

nice, how did you create that? polygonal, spline, other?

you may be interested in Adobe Photoshop Normal Map and DDS Authoring Plug-ins

this will take any texture and change it to a 'normal bump' map
it is another way to add bumps to your textures.
look up bump mapping for more info.

thanks for the clarification Val, I never use them so I was not sure.

I know, I supposed to learn how to create textures myself
I am interested in Mtl libs because, since the help file is missing in my version of max, original Mtl libs probably (almost sure) too. When I choose materials in Mat. Editor there are a lot of textures marked red (brick, concrete and other building materials).

For the plant followed the tut form 3dtotal.com called "Modeling a Plant" by Thomas Rinsch
(bmp. Ref picture,- create plane,- convert to editable poly ... then stuff started that I don’t understand yet)

red? do you mean little red flags next to the words instead of green ones? if so that does not mean you cant use them. actually I am not sure why they are red.

there are buttons at the top to change view (just like windows explorer's icon, list, details)

That is it, little red flags.
Why I do not see brick texture then? Will check max folders with the explorer to make sure.
Edit: Checked, have 17 mat lib files.

good to see that you have them.
like I said tho you can change the view max mat. editor from list to small icon to thumbnail. look for the buttons near the very top.

Here she is, Miss America!
Sorry, I am too tired to make her even a little more digestible.

[attachment=3037:MA.png] [attachment=3038:MAL.png]

I love this tutorial, hope there are more like it. Pure fun. Haven't eaten in 3 days.
Already have a hated tool though - "snap". I always afraid that it did not work, and why do you need it, if there are "move +weld"?

looks good!
eat something, there is more and better
heh snap does suck
when I am drawing out splines I hold down SHIFT. this will constrain to right angles from your last vertex.

pure truth, I hate snap tool, too...

I really want to try to model a house in BG standard to see what skills I’ll need the most.
SK, maybe you will send me or upload a max file with a box in the right angle and right camera (lighting)?

Val and I have been trying to work out some standards but this does not follow them. it is just very basic it will give you a simple start.
note I have taken one boxes vertical edges and chamfered them to give them a not so sharp corner.

SK, do you know how to make screenshots when in 3d max and where to find them later?

if you hit the print screen button it is saved on the mswin clipboard.
I mostly use psp but I think you use PS right? I just paste as a new image in psp. but with photoshop just make a new image and paste as a new layer.

Oh yes, I remember using it once, mswin clipboard - you open it with "paint", right?

I would not do it in paint. paste it using psp or ps then just save as

... and I need it right away:
what the hell did I do (clicked) so I can't move the sphere up and down? And the "move" cursor doesn't look the same.

[attachment=3053:sc1.png]

Well, I see you have converted original sphere to editable poly. And you can´t move the sphere because you have "Edit vertices" button highlighted (it is the first one from the left, just below the "Selection" sign). At this stage you can edit sphere vertices. If you don´t want to, just click that button again, "Editable poly" sign will get grey color again and you´ll be able to move the whole sphere again like before... Of course, move cursor will get its previous shape...

This is too, but the main thing turned out to be (I think) that I hit "X" to see X-ray mod (??? - did not work), but then I remembered and hit it again (after an hour of frustration) - came back to normal.

Using UVW map modifier, sometimes works very well, sometimes not, need to read more

[attachment=3054:RoofUVW.png]

True, X-Ray mod does this too, I totally forgot...

About UVW modifiers - in my whole 3d career, I´ve never used Unwrap modifier. I always worked with UVW Maps for every component. Yes, it takes a little bit more time, but if you´re not good in unwrapping, then bad unwrap and its correction will take even more. Just ask SK.

Hey, SK, send him untextured House01. He´ll see how it has been made, so he´ll be able to make his own based on it...

That would be nice, but I don't think I should take shortcuts like this, SK will probably suggest to suffer through all of it step by step.

hehe I hit that X alt X thing before, gave me hours of frustration as well
X = hide/show transform gizmo
Alt + X = see through mode

suffer through it hmmm... I like the sound of that muhahahaha!
EDIT: just noticed that this is a not a mansard but a changing slope hip still real tough. so the sudo tut might not be applicable
this is more than a pain. I started making a tutorial on this but have not gotten far enough to be of any help.
you are walking through a nightmare; properly mapping a mansard roof with a shingle texture is even tougher than a hip roof and those are not so easy either.

as far as suffering through it might not be worth it. I should send you my 'properly mapped mansard roof'
I had a good many hours logged and a good grasp of unwrap uvw before attempting this one and it still took about 10-18 hours getting it right.

but it helps knowing how to break selected vertices and how to weld them back together

tut in a nutshell w/o pics
try this
clone your roof. Shift + Move, select clone.
select 2 of the horizontal edges (above and below themselves) then click loop you should now have at least 8 edges selected.
now hold down Ctrl while clicking the vertice button (located just under the selection roll out) this will convert the selected edges to vertices.
now click the edges button again and this will take you back to your previous selected edges.
now click remove. this will remove the edges.
click the vertice button. this will take you back to the previously selected vertices.
now click remove again.

this will leave you with a much more simple model to texture.

once that is done nicely convert it to editable poly
then you can add back in the missing geometry (the edges you removed)
and shape it better, back to what it was.
then you can do some touch up with another unwrap uvw.

tut in a nutshell w/o pics

I was complaining about it in "it is just a box" - my first learning rant.
Why do I kinda see triangles there? In 3d I mean, because scale or bevel are used?
(I know it's bad, you have to make them quadrants)
I can avoid it...
But those are legitimate polys (or so I thought)


Of corse it is. I used to spend months' ' ' to make a BG area, then SK came along and shone me how to use PH tools.
Seriously, I have to know basic Max tools (10,000 of them) to start of thinking of beeing remotely creative.

How about that hole in the wall, SK, meet me in the middle there.

it is closer to an explosion than a box, you have vertices going in all directions/dimensions. that is not so bad but on top of that you are using a shingle pattern which add a huge constraint to it. this is what makes it tough
you actually do not see the geometry triangles, that is just how it is mapped. so yeah those are legitimate 'quads'

it is not worth it because my 'properly mapped mansard roof', isn't, but it is as close to it as possible. so keep the geometry as simple as possible map it out then make the geometry more complex then use unwrap to clean up rough spots.

so it is kind of like val hinted to (if I am assuming correct) is create much more simple geometry and map that and build a more complex shape out of those simple shapes which, already has better mapping.

there are few ways to avoid trying to map out complex models, which to me avoidance (using simple geo.) is better than starting by mapping out a complex model.

btw box is comprized of 90 degree angles and and beyond that is 'getting complex'

Question about BG standarts
As I understand, it's Ok to move, rotate, scale etc. the model, but never change the camera view when rendering.
The light also set as standart BG light (in the Basic.max file)
What about scale, what kind of units or limits did you use (or is it done by eye, comparing with original buildings in game)
I think I start to understand how to use UVW maps, so if I had a uniformal scale, maybe texturing would be easier...

[attachment=3089:HBGcam2.png]

when building your scene you can zoom (field of view button located lower right when camera VP selected) in or out and change your render size to fit your needs. but this should be fairly early on.
the zooming will change the size of your objects thus scaling the scene.

my basic scene setup:
determine scene size. the aprox size of area you want to create. determined by renderer menu (F10). max bg size 60x80 (X64) but do you really want it that big?
is it indoor or out. if out, you can use those photometric IES Sun lights. it is not 100% accurate but very close and real fast when rendering.
if indoors use multiple omni lights. wherever the scene needs one you will have to set the attenuation for them. the far attenuation is probably the most important, setting the start and end closer together will give you a harder edge to the light, so you will probably want to space them apart for a soft edge.
then there is also decay you can set this to whichever you need. (set somewhere betweenf the near and far end settings in attenuation I like inverse square cuts it off quick but you can pick inverse or even none.
important under shadow parameters rollout: if you set the color or density less than 0,0,0 black and 1.0 the light will start to go through solid objects. now so you do not have 100% black shadows I found that no less than .8 can still work.

ok so scale is done by eye but val and I have been discussing a standard or a way to standardize scene development.
I have not actually tried it yet but in theory it should work. maybe val has tried this and can say how well it works or not
however in the mean time: door height is more important than roof line or a second story starts.

on a square/rectangle building a uvw box modifier with settings of 10,10,10 will stay at that setting even if you determine that you roof height is too tall. just grab some of those top vertices and bring them down. the stone texture will not stretch or compress and this is important when using a stone/brick texture since they should have some uniformity (then you add in randomness )

things that slow rendering:
poly count, shadow type (stick with speed shadow or shadow map since bg does not require photo realism ), texture size, and render size.
on render size and large areas: once your scene is fairly set where you like it you do not have to render the whole thing. you can use crop.
crop is located on the main tool bar all the way to the right (drag left on the toolbar to see more) from a pulldown menu (default is view). select the viewport (camera), select crop from the pull down menu, then click the teapot (quick render production) button. this will place a crop box in that viewport this is sometimes invisible do a left click drag in center of viewport to see). you can move and resize that box, then click OK. it will render the size you have set but only that portion that is in the cropped section. change it back to view to render the whole scene again.

Exactly what I thought, that the smallest door that opens-closes in the game should be the scale standart/unit!
If there will be a setting like this, it would be possible to make buildings in another file, then merge it with the scene...?
One more question: are the little plants all made in 3d too - Speedtree?
[attachment=3091:Plants.png]

yes merge is very powerful, unlike import it also takes textures and mapping coordinates and applies them. however the model you select to merge might not be to scale to what you are working on. but it is fairly easy to scale the difference, just make sure x,y,z are all scalling at the same time. but you will have to make a quick area file and try it out in game.

those plants are models that I scammed from oblivion remodeled them to lower poly but kept the textures, but as you can see they are too green, I ll need to revamp.

again if val reads this: did you try that BG scaling thing we talked about?

...reading very sporadicaly, I´m on holiday - what do you mean by BG standard? Maybe I forgot something you write me in the past via PM, but the only standard I recall is the one renaming 3ds house models... Refresh me...

enjoy your holiday.
either create plane or use background image to the ratio of an existing bg area, use that image as a backdrop for scale.
like I said it should work but I have not tried it.

I would say to create the plane. This is the way I use to work... To each his own...

so you did get it to work that way? cool.

Gotta be real dimentions :
X/Z/Y, if not , never mind

Is Mac really better now?
(Have to go with the flow?) (again?)

what?

Apple, said to be better for graphics

ah, well 3ds only works on M$ iirc, however I guess it can run on linux wine

[attachment=3312:H1.png]

Texturing is getting better
Size turned out to be too small - What to use for uniformal units for BG buildings, still don't know.

comming along real nice

texture or model size? I use the door height at about 55-60 pixels. I render, zoom, and/or change the render size.

however if you make the model out of proportion to the rest of your models you can use scale to change its size. either by x, y, or z or any combo or all 3

for the texture you might want to just change (I assume you used uvw box modifier) the sizes from say 10,10,10 (or whatever you used) to 8,8,8 then re-render. this will make the stone (texture) smaller.

[attachment=3313:H1.png]

Will try.
Q: When using Stucco, do I need a bump map, or just to change settings, so it would look like a wall surface, not paint blots?

need a bump? no but they look better if so, Ill explain latter
stucco's default setting is black and white it would look much better with closer shades of gray to give it a subtle look.

try this:
take your stone texture (or any other) you had earlier and load it into the stucco map slots (both)

once both slots are opened click on one map
under the coordinates and bitmap parameters you will find output click on output to expand it.

there are a lot of controls here but just change the output to .8 to .9 this should darken this map slightly.
render to see a difference.

now click 'go to parent 2 times and expand the maps section if it is not already.
copy the diffuse color by clicking on the map and dragging it to the bump channel (or right click copy and paste in bump slot) and use 'copy' not instance or swap.
now open up the bump map stucco and un check the 2 map boxes (or right click ->clear)
render
woah that is probably too bumpy and bumped the wrong direction.
first change the color 1 with color 2 to fix the wrong bump direction. click drag and this time use swap
then you can change the black and white to shades of gray or click go to parent and change the bump amount to something more subtle from default 30 to 13?

one more thing you can do but it can turn you rendered object plastic looking quickly is specular and glossiness change the spec. to 10 and keep gloss at 10. this will give it a nice sheen w/o going over the top.

now this can be used technique can be used on many of those procedural textures from cellular to dent to smoke or my personal favorite noise.

some times Ill use just a solid color (very thinly mind you because it can look fake real fast) like green for moss growth.

this will do very nicely for braking up repetitive texturing

addendum:

here is 2 sets of noise and they get progressively more detailed just to demonstrate that you can do this.
the left column has one more step than the right (sorry backwards)

just using a noise map in first row
changing the coordinates in second row
third row adding more procedural textures but keeping the general theme of stacking procedural textures but you can use a bit map anywhere in this process.

edit: messed up on the 3ds file the last map I did not copy the bump map to the last row left block pattern.
also note in the tiles map I made the grout gap bump a 1 instead of the diffuse being at .5 to kind of round over the rocks

I guess I took too complicated stone texture to be able to see the results.
How detailed the main stone texture should be?

[attachment=3317:Stone.png]

Everything else is getting better!
Should rendered pictures be this dark (or did I change camera settings accidentally) ?

[attachment=3318:H2S30.png]

no it was probably my fault, there is a lot of variables and it is tough to cover them all. either the noise needed to be more pronounced or something, again just play around with the controls nothing I say is in stone (pardon the pun).

as detailed as you want/need but you are looking down about 100 ft or so so you will not be seeing tiny insects.

it is looking great! tho a bump map or more bump if you are using one already.
what I like to do sometimes is to make a gray scale map of the texture I am using then increase the contrast a bit, and then use that as the bump. or nvidia's normal map plugin then I can also use a regular bump as well, again I love to get too complicated.

are you using 2 ies suns, if so turn the one casting shadows down a bit and the one that is not up a bit.
it does not look too off to me but there is always room for tweaking.

on hip roofs bg created some lines on all their angles to make texturing easier.

Stone started to work, kinda.
Tried to ruin the tower, - major disaster.

[attachment=3319:F1.png]

Yep, HERD, that´s a good one for the start. About the lights - I´m usually using 3 IESun light system for my scenes. Main 2 light are emitting from the point of scene view, or camera view, one of them is generating shadows. And the third one is from behind to remove such black backgrounds you have in your render. The last light is set to very low values...