Bill, just follow the plot, at least until Dragon's Eye. Talk to Hrothgar, accept quest, save Dar from wolves if you want him. He is one of the best NPCs in the game btw. Return to Hrothgar, bring bad news about caravan, get the list from Pomab. Optionally join Accalia, if you don't have Jahi with you. Minsc proved to be really good for the first part though. Follow Hrothgar. I mean follow Hrothgar, don't break his quests, don't say him no, if you want to play. Because if you say no, it means no in the game.

[EDIT] Just want to make it very clear - it's not a BG1 style game, I repeat. All quests are connected in chain, like in original IWD. You get the quest, you do it, then next and so on. You can explore areas only in the frame of the particular quest. You finished the quest, you cannot come back. There is no such freedom of walking like in BG1. It's a plot-oriented game. If you "bork" one of the quests in the chain, you won't get the next quest. If you refused to do something, you cannot go back. The only way is reload. That's it. Removing Hrothgar from the group will equally "bork" the whole mod. Please understand that in NeJ, the MAIN character is not your PC but Hrothgar. So if you want to play the whole mod, you should follow him.

Now looking at the screen shots I've realized what you did. In the final dialogue before the cutscene that was supposed to start the expedition, you joined Hrothgar, and immediately without leaving the dialogue screen, you removed him, so he stayed out of party. You're really serious about breaking the core game.

This reminds me of when my grandfather used to build computers to sell on ebay, then would have me test them to see if I could break them XD

I hope you appreciate this Vlad. This is what a comprehensive serious tester does. I'm surprised no one has given you any of this feedback before.

My suggestion is to alter the Hrothgar dialogues to something like this here. Basically, if you say that you don't want to go with Hrothgar, he will leave and say he'll find another party. If we say no, we bork the game. So, we shouldn't be allowed to say no. Dialogue should change so that we have to say yes and game continuity is assured (just like in the video link above). Or remove the false choices altogether. False choices aren't fun in my opnion.

As an additional note Vlad, when Hrothgar originally asked me if I was ready to go, I was, but I didn't realize that meant that I had to kick out a party member and have him come along as an NPC. I needed to move around some items to accommodate the fact that I was losing an NPC. If we need to remove an NPC, we need to be given some time to accomplish this without losing all their items (some plot critical perhaps) and without borking the game.

You are confusing the determination of the tester and game-breaker. Tester checks games for bugs. You just try to break the main story.

I don't think so. In traveling to Kuldahar, I was prompted to add a party member. Originally I did not even want Hrothgar in my party. Later I realized that in order to travel, I had to kick out another party member. When I finished preparing (move items away) from When I had kicked that party member out I couldn't talk to Hrothgar and travel. That is a problem.

As stated before, false choices tend not to be fun. It's why I suggested changing dialogue to something similar in the video. If they really are to be kept in, the game needs to really tell us that it's game over like a certain genre does.

This is not game. This is mod that you installed. If you don't like it - just don't play it. It's simple.

I guess that logic can apply to a lot of things in life. Don't like your kid? Send them to boarding school. Don't like your house? Demolish it. Don't like your cake, get a bigger one! Of course the purpose of beta testing is to provide feedback on bugs and issues which is exactly what I'm doing. And, who said anything about not liking it? I'm really enjoying playing this mod. Thank you Vlad for all this new content and the opportunity to play! I'm really liking it so far!

Bill, your logic is correct, and your comments are okay. Thanks for testing, it's appreciated. BUT....

But, this level of testing is good for a game, not for the mod (like Senka said). I cannot account for all the purposely game breaking points because I'm not a studio making games. You may equally try and test BG2 at this level of perfection and see how many breaking issues you'll have there. The difference is that when you do such thorough testing for a game like BG2, the studio/company would probably take care of them. And I cannot devote my free time to such things, it's just waste in my opinion.

That's why I suggest you read about the mod, you read the hints and undocumented features, and you'll reload if you feel that you're stuck at some quest.

I took NeJ3v71 and reinstalled it into a brand new install. I didn't want to risk any issues of installing over NeJ3v70

I decided to try out the Tutorial (which I've never done before).



Apparently the Tutorial is Candlekeep.



Let's see what we find:



At least Wintrhop sells clubs! I really need a club in Easthaven darn it!



These really are some strange rumors Winthrop..... Why is he hitting on me?




Not talking to me. I have no idea what's going on here.



The rats insist on following me.



I cannot leave Candlekeep



Candlekeep watchers don't like stealing for some reason. The original training room is empty. I thought the tutorial might happen here, but nothing



No Imoen or Gorion but Candlekeep door is open



Place is pretty empty save some barely talkative NPCs. I found this letter which I think is supposed to be Gorion's letter, but it's blank.



The top level is supposed to contain Ulraunt and Tethtoril, but they're not here.

OMG...
Dude you just broke quest of one of your NPC. At least...
Tutorial - for pure game only. Got it?

Yea, something's wrong with the Tutorial. Anyway, I decided to start a new multiplayer game.

It seems very hard to fail Pick pockets when you're trying to. Perhaps I should get my character really drunk



Now that I completed the quest, the boy is here.



It'd be nice if we could steal that Knucklehead Trout back



I just spent a fortune getting my high Con character drunk. Can I get some rumors Quimby please???



Even drunk I can't fail at pickpocketing!



This is a very deceptive screen here. It's not entirely clear that saying I don't have room for Hrothgar (which I didn't last time) is killer to the mod.





I finally get to continue!

You should restart. As I explained, leaving Hrothgar behind stops NeJ's plot.

Dar is listed as Exportable. As an NPC this should not happen.



Yay, a club finally! Thank you!



I think whenever I get kicked out of a store screen, that means I failed to steal? Nothing keeps me from going back and trying again. Look at all these nice +2 Slings that I stole!



I casted Remove Curse, Neutralize Poison, Cure Serious Wounds, and Cure Disease. Shouldn't at least one of these spells help this poor goblin?

If you know the plot, it won't help.

A nice goblin cave with weak goblins in it. No goblin king. No treasure chest. What the heck was that Rakasha doing earlier with the goblins? I can't seem to find any secret doors either.



Hrothgar still thinks he's the pizazz.



If I say no to Hrothgar, he tells Accalia to leave with him. And then I'm in a cutscene and can't leave. It's be really nice to get a GAME OVER screen here:\



This dialogue is much nicer. It let's me roleplay as a badguy, but nonetheless let me know I must be committed to this plot!



If you choose the option "Tell me again what must be done, eventually the dialogue breaks. This happens with or without Hrothgar in your party





So it appears I accidently (and finally failed my pickpocket. I killed Urnst by accident (auto attack scripts). And now I went to another house. Well, this citizen instantly knew that I failed to pickpocket Urnst and he too unfortunately died due to auto attack scripts.

I really hate these things:



Some of the townsfolk run away from the Yeti (these ones will).



This lady doesn't seem to care



You'd think Dar would have something to say about about being in a Temple of Ilmater, but he is very silent.

I hope you continue.

Equipping this item deals 6 hp damage for some reason



See Imoen died (but she still thinks she's hold this staff)




Where is the Stealing Button! I want to be rewarded for putting points into PickPocket!



This is my favorite way of playing: disposable minions in front, party members armed with ranged weapons behind them. This method avoid a lot of annoying enemies. Those goblins with poisoned arrows and those Draining Shadows and Poison Mists in this Vale of Shadows that we're in. It requires me to rest less and not to have to micromanage spells all the time, but we can still use them if we face a tough enemy that requires more thinking.

This another reason why I love Clerics: Animate Dead. I don't have to go searching for monster summoning spells and Animate Dead comes quicker for Clerics and automatically. Having myself (Cleric/Thief), Dar (Fighter/Cleric), and Accalia (Cleric) all being able to cast this spell is mighty fine and nice, letting use get enough uses of this spell in order to clear out a map.

By the way, I've learned from the goblin areas, that you mean business when we rest in enemy territory. I nearly lost the game to that from those goblins. I walk all the way back to town before I dare rest now.

Of course, this only highlights the fact that there's some more spells that should be modded in: Rope Trick or Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion – Hassle Free Resting Everywhere.



I really wish there was a script for how I play. I put my disposable minions always in front. I have to constantly pause and click to ensure that my skeletons stay in front.



These skeletons will attack Tundra Yetis in the Darkness, but Tundra Yetis will target skeletons from the darkness only after they've been hit. Essentially I get a free attack off. This isn't all the time but some of the time



Are there infinite Vampire Mists here? Always sneaking behind me and trying to attack? I guess not, good job on making me feel that way though.

Thanks for the Sling of Seeking. I really wish BG2 didn't remove Strength bonuses from ranged weapons. This item gives it back like it should. Unfortunately the only NPC starting with Sling Proficiency is Accalia but she only has 13 Strength and cannot benefit from this.

It would be nice if both Dar and Shar Teel had points in ranged weapons. It is sorely needed. The Sling of Seeking will have to be used by the main character (me, for now).



I just drunk potions of master thievery and now my pick pocket is 245! I still see no button to steal! Please let me steal from stores in this town! The inn guy and the wizard in the tower guy! No steal button! Me sad!




I didn't realize that the Yeti Pelt Bag was more than just a bag for holding Yeti Pelts. You actually gave us a bag of holding. Thanks.

This battle feels too much. I'm having to cheese this battle to win it. Constantly moving in and out. The monsters can't follow me because it's a “You must gather your party to venture forth” area change



Just How many Yeti Live on this Mountain? 2K XP per yeti. 3 yetis at a time. 1K xp per party member per rest. The yetis are melee and don't have too many hit points. This is a decent XP Farming location.



Yes, I'm sorry; I have to cheese this battle by shooting, retreating, heailng, re-entering, shooting some more. Going back to town resting, going back to this place and reshooting. Even with the best armor available Shar-Teel and Accalia get damaged this much within a few seconds and I've already cleared a lot of these undead. Such is the way of things.



This dialogue refers to a Sword. Except Imoen does not have a sword and cannot use one as she is Still Dual Classing to Mage.



Hrothga randomly dies in this tomb for seemingly no reason. If you'd check into this it'd be appreciated. Edit: Nvm. Random Trap. Find Traps Failed me!

Oh my dear goodness. Vlad! I love Myrkul! One of my old characters was a Priest of Myrkul! Please let me worship Myrkul!



I don't want to kill him! You're going to make me kill him aren't you? *Weepingly Sobs*



Gosh dang it. Only 1 option. The designers hate undead. Le Sigh.



I am Sad.



Timestop at this level? Really?



Are we supposed to get through this door? My people can't get through. Edit: Figured it out.

Use another party formation. Line for example. Your leader would be first

Now I've got to find this Priestess of Auril. I was sure I explored every tomb in the Vale of Shadows already.

Did you speak with maiden Lisan in Kuldahar tavern?

Bill, I have done some changes partially according to your advices, partially as I see them myself.

1) You don't have any more option to steal from stores.
2) Townies will give you different warnings, one or two, randomly in both towns if you try to steal from them and fail.
3) Hrothgar will warn you if you don't join him that you cannot leave the town without him, and tell you that you can come back when you change your mind.
4) I've removed the buggy BG2 rod from the store and placed another tome instead.
5) Yeti are now more powerful, so you cannot easily make an XP farm of them (However, if you remember the sirens shore in BG, that was also the XP farm).
6) Two broken links in dialogues, which you have spotted, are fixed.
7) Rumours are now easy to get in the taverns.

The rest is game related, and I prefer to keep it as it is.

[EDIT] Please don't do tricks like joining and throwing NPCs from the group in the same dialogue window. These tricks are potentially game- or quest-breaking in the core game. The Infinity engine is not perfect and cannot account for all those tricks. Normally, what happens in such cases, is changing the dialogue to leaving dialogue of the NPC, and you won't be able to bring the previous dialogue options back until you properly join him/her. I can edit HROTHP dialogue to account for this particular trick, but I cannot account for all possible tricks you can do. So, just bear this in mind.

Thanks Vlad. Just a note that I don't really advocate removing stealing from stores. Pickpocket is on of the few things that make thieves and bards unique. (Hide in shadows is trumped by invisibility, open locks is trumped by Knock, find remove traps is somewhat trumped by find traps spell, detect illusions is trumped by true sight spell, and so forth. If you make stealing from stores impossible here, then it's just that more worthless to play a thief ( and in of itself encourages more grinding for gold)

Frankly you have enough NPC-thieves.

Bill, you'll have so much gold there that you can just buy what you need. I don't like the option of robbing stores because those items will make the whole game very easy. What's the sense of getting through the hordes of undead and other creatures, thinking about tactics and so on if you can get any item from the beginning and ease your game until the point the game lacks any challenge.

Thanks for the tip Senka.

Vlad, I would note that even after plundering the Vale of Shadows, Overall I still don't have *That* much money. Combined from the Orc caves, I had about 20K Gold total since the beginning of NeJ and now after spending I have around 16K.



Look at some of these prices and imagine trying to support 2 mages to get equipment and spells?




Look at these prices and think of party members we have to support. And, there's more than this.




In short, there's no way we have enough money via dedicated questing to get all the items the party needs to be top notch. And remember too that the best items in the game are not bought but rather they are found and/or crafted.

So no frankly based on my testing, this mod does not give us all the gold that we need. Denying stealing from stores just makes us more likely to choose to grind for gold (the best location for Gold Grinding seems to be the Orc Caves at the moment, you kill orcs until they drop scrolls and sell off the scrolls.) And this only serves to reinforce the notion that Thieves Suck. At least thieves gave us an opportunity to avoid some grind.

As far as challenge goes, one can always play a solo game, put the difficulty on insane, self-deny certain tactics (force-talking), and/or Install Sword Coast Stratagems.

Yes, you get most of the good items you need from quests. No need to rob poor store keepers. You're still at the very beginning and telling me that you're lacking items. My answer is - of course! You're close to complete Kresselack's quest. See the items you get from him and from the Vale of Shadows. You sell 20 long swords +1 and 10 long bows +1 - each about 200-500 gold. Aldwin gives you good prices if you're in agreement with him. I finish the first part and return to Dungeon with 300k gold, all party members are well equipped. Firkraag is an immediate target. Eventually, thieves are indeed worthless, in my opinion. I need only one for locks and traps. With high level party, I even don't need backstabbing. Melora is a good thief and good archer, but Imoen will replace her scenario wise.

Am I supposed to meet this priestess of Auril at the Tavern? She is nowhere to be seen.



If you're going to nerf Pick Pocketing by removing stealing from stores, it'd be nice if the people in these towns (especially the shop owners) had more items to steal. Currently there's hardly anything on these people!

Bill, you're supposed to meet Lysan in that tavern. If you didn't talk to her, but went and cleaned the Vale of Shadows, she escaped already to her ice cave. Return to that cave, and she'll be there.

The people you want to rob are poor. That's why I don't like thieves.

This guy certainly has a lot of magical potions, weapons, armor, and spells to be poor!

Which Ice Cave is this? The one nearby where the goblins were? To get there you had to move to a new area north of the tower with the ogre? I went there already and it was still bare.

Edit: Nvm. I think I may have found it. Overlooked this the first time.

I never met this woman as a barmaid (in fact I completely overlooked the fact that there was a tavern in Kuldahar until I was told there was one. I suppose you'll tell me that I don't have to choose this option. The problem is that it's the only dialogue option to move forward in the game. It breaks the roleplay since I never actually met this woman before

Just another thought. Is there any reason I can't just lie to this undead spirit Kresselak and be believed? That'd be a nice option as well.



I can totally pickpocket yeti hides off of Yeti. Yay! Don't nerf that too please!



This lady tells me to leave, but I can totally rummage around her cave.



If you attack the Blue Yetis instead of talking to Lysan first, Lysan will cast spells and attack you but Shadows will never be summoned automatically appearing.



Kresselak doesn't seem to be fighting back. Only Hrothgar can easily damage him



Yaya, the evil conqueror is dead. I get no journal entries nor key to his tomb. My guess is that the game is screwed now.



It's sad how you get almost as much quest xp for being Kresselak's errand boy/girl as you do for just offing Kresselak



His Coffin magically opens after you talk to Kresselak and he tells you that he knows nothing. It'd be nice if it magically opened even if I killed him before I talked to him. In fact it'd be nice if the game let you just off Kresselak and take his coffin items without bothering the Priestess of Auril First and this let you move on storywise.

Oh, and can I kill Kresselak now?

I'll rearrange the order of things a bit to account for your unusual walkthrough. In addition, I'll make the fight with Kresselack another challenge.

Bill, correct me if I'm wrong.

1) You've never visited the tavern (no starting cutscene in the tavern meeting Lysan there).
2) You have received the quest of Kresselack to remove the priestess of Auril.
3) You have visited the ice cave - no Lysan there.
4) You have visited the tavern - Lysan is not there (no starting cutscene).
5) You have returned to the ice cave, and Lysan is there.
6) You have succeeded to leave the dialogue with her without confrontation?!
7) You have attacked Yetis, and she turned hostile

I never visited the tavern in town before getting the quest from Kresselak. After I got that quest, I went to the tavern and there was a brief cutscene that started and quickly ended. Nothing happened in that cutscene. After getting that empty cutscene I visited the ice cave and Lysan was there.

If rather than talk to Lysan and you decide to attack a Yeti, she'll cast some summoning spells and all the Yetis and Lysan will go red on you. You will have no conversation with Lysan in the ice cave. However, the game is not broken. After Lysan's death I went to talk to Kresselak and he confirmed that the Priestess of Auril was dead. The only thing that is lost is the sudden appearance of all these undead in the ice cave if you talk to her.

A Kresselack that fights back would be nice. Thanks.

This Large Shield +1 requires 15 Strength while this Large Shield +2 requires 10 Strength. Very weird.





All these Virbeeg have no equipment or items or anything. Yeah they're giant. Their stuff is probably hard to use but still.



I'm beginning to suspect that the plot twist is that Our Druid Quest Giver is not our friend.

Arundel keeps on telling me he'll mark a location on my map. But, it's never marked on my map. He did this with the Virbeeg temple too



A Standard tactic is to summon skeletons and then put a stinking cloud or a cloudkill over them (which can't kill the skeletons). I'm most disappointed that my own summoned skeletons are turning red against me.

Imoen can still totally die offscreen (poison in this case)

Because this is IWD plot.

You didn't chose her new kit during installation did you?

Did the original IWD have a worldmap and Vlad just didn't implement it here?

I installed every component including Charming Rogue Imoen.

IWD has. But Vlad cannot.

Your screenshot says opposite ) This is her original phrase when she lost a lot hp

Shield: Logic says that higher enhancement makes the shield lighter and requires less strength.

Verbeegs: animation restriction. Taking off their spears and shields should remove them from the image as well, but that doesn't happen. That's why I've decided to make those items undroppable.

Word map: agreed, that reference should be removed.

Beetles: dangerous, protect your group members.

Senka, I definitely have the Charming Rogue here and it was definitely installed. Vlad hasn't modified Imoen's kick-out dialogue to reflect that we're in a whole other time period similarly



Vlad, any chance we could get the world map icons restored and this area put into the BGT-BP Map mod?

Regarding the Large Shield. The issue is that shouldn't the Large Shield +1 have a lower weight and Strength requirement relative to the Large Shield? Currently the strength requirements for the Large Shield and Large Shield +1 are equivalent



I could have sworn I saw a polymorphed Bombadier Beetles still send off its noxious clouds. I'll do some more testing.


Erevain? The elf in the tavern in Easthaven? He had on Elven Chain Mail in town. His corpse here has regular chain mail. Will he still appear here even if he's dead in Easthaven? By the way, nice touch on making him Xan's cousin




I hope these complaining captured villiagers understand that there's no way I'm entering this cavern unprepared. I'm totally going to rest and come back refreshed. Those bombadier beetles nearly destroyed my party.

You know Vlad, I was just thinking. It would really be nice if we could recruit Erevain back in Easthaven as an NPC. I think he'd make a great Fighter / Mage given that he starts with Elven Chainmail. It would be cool if he doesn't join that we find him dead in the Dragon Caverns later and makes us think the consequences of not recruiting people: they don't stop being heroic just because they're not travelling with us.

It'd also be nice because it early on gives us a mage. If we think about it, we actually only get a Thief if we keep Imoen a Charming Rogue or Dual Class Shar Teel. Even if we dual Imoen to a Mage like I did, it'd be nice to have someone else to give scrolls to when Imoen already has them. I'm sure that you have a Mage coming up later, but it'd be nice to have another non-human NPC joinable (Dar is the only non-human so far).

I realize that that means another NPC and more work, but I think it'd fit well to have him join and would be a fitting tribute to Xan like you had a tribute to Branwen with Accalia : The more things change, the more they stay the same kind of thing.

Just a thought Vlad. Couldn't the Verbeeg carry an armor and spear even if they didn't have them equipped? They could have one set equipped and one not equipped.

I led that slow moving Lizard King out of his cave while I slowly waited for his protection from magical weapons spell to wink out. Then I pelted him with missiles and summons until he was no more. This guy would be a little scarier if he was hasted. Then at least we couldn't run away as easily while his protections quickly faded.



These Lizardmen could use some throwing spears. Right now I can play chicken with summons. The summon lures the slow moving Lizardmen to my party until they are pummelled with missiles. You should seriously look at the Vale of Shadows again, that one cave where you're surrounded by Skeleton Warriors with Arrows. That was too much but furthered the notion of packing a punch with missiles




I guess this is also a classic game problem. I can lure out a couple of enemies at a time rather than fight a whole room full of them



I think I found a better xp farm. 4 Lizardmen spawning for 3600 xp each. That's 14400 xp or 2400 xp each for a party of 6. Resting in this little corner makes it so that only a couple can attack at once.




I take it back. THIS PLACE is a much better farming location. I can literally talk to this lady whenever I want to really rest and hit the rest button regularly when I want to farm. I don't even need to use Missile Weapons. Just infinite melee all day, when I get too hurt, rest for real!

Bill, nice suggestions - map, new NPCs, different scripts - but that would be mods for NeJ3, and I welcome anyone including you to work on them, to write the story, dialogues, banters, interjections, to make a new map etc etc etc

Bill, this is not what happens. You are misleading me here. Lysan is in the tavern. You cannot get rid of her, and she won't leave without having a dialogue. The tavern is small, the cutsene starts, Lysan is immediately approaching you and talks. You cannot avoid this dialogue. If you do break this dialogue and she leaves without saying a word, tell me how did you succeed to break it?

[EDIT] It doesn't matter when you enter the tavern for the first time (before or after getting the quest of Kresselack) - Lysan-barmaid will always be there as any other creature assigned to that area, for the first visit, and you'll meet her and later recognise her as Lysan in the ice cave. I think you either forgot about this encounter, because she was a regular barmaid, or just broke the dialogue somehow in your unique style, so she left without saying a word.



What's that? Have you seen such range weapon in BG series?

Okay. The following improvements according to Bill has been introduced:

1) Kresselack will respond to attack now, and will probably slain the whole party instantly.
2) No lizard farm any more - green lizardmen with halberds are now very powerful.
3) Arundel does not mention the world map any more.

[EDIT] All the material of the mod (except some additional quest-related dialogues of Leina) has been written by Jan, a British novelist and my co-author. Unfortunately, she cannot write anything for the moment, and I'm not a writer myself. So, it's completely up to you or anyone else to write the additional material for the mod.