You guys are all the same It seems that everyone wants the last word.

I won’t have a bad word said about Vlad sure he makes games unbelievably tough but that’s mostly down to combining it with BP or BGT, shadow of vale still sends shivers down my spine…
…and okay why does everybody want to mess about with mind flayers my summoned demon the meanest and most feared demon in the abyss with an unspellable name lasted one and a bit rounds against two MF. It’s not balance as far as I am concerned, in PnP he would have been picking them out of his teeth while they attempted there phoney mind tricks.

Isn’t game balance a wonderful thing but I’m afraid he who pays the piper calls the tune so if you are unhappy about game balance in this game then the IE modding tools are thata way….

<B>It is very obvious a lot of you cannot think beyong the fact that this entire core game is based on the core rules of AD&D second edition rules.</b>

Following that logic, modders would have to follow the vanilla Baldur's Gate developer's lead in making their mods. Which would be both pointless and ridiculous.

Nobody plays BG2 with mods for the "core game" and thus will not become miffed if the core game does not reflect the "core rules".

<B>Many of you wouldn't know what "Balance" meant if it walked up to you and kicked you in the nuts, because it takes YEARS (oh my I yelled, sorry), to learn through direct experience.</b>

You have too much arrogance, in addition to conceit, showing. It's amazing how people have tolerated your unique style of rendition here up to this point.

<B>I can simply ask you in reply, why are you so afraid of the rules?</b>

Why are your projecting your fear of fighting Vlad's lizard mobs with your fighters by talking about others being afraid of "rules"? Is this cause if other people obeyed your rules, you wouldn't have to fight Vlad's lizard mobs?

<B>Sorry to be confrontational but the whole "I am Bereth Darkides god of AD&D and you must bow to my superior wisdom" thing is becoming just rude and boring.</b>-NotBereth

Given that computer rpgs cannot simulate paper AD and D, it doesn't even matter how many years he/you have spent on AD and D for such an experience does not translate to computer rpg situations. You can make it translate, but it is rather complicated and expensive in time and effort.

<B>I can transform it into a webpage with no problems. Thus the modders will be able to take a look into it and make their mods more AD&D.
</b>-Valiant

Valiant gets points for trying to do something constructive, which is what constructive criticism is all about. Criticizing in order to make things better. Destructive crticism, however, simply complains about things in order to make things worse by distracting people or dividing up folk's time.

<B>How 'bout a scenario that could permanently kill your character if you willingly attempted it! Ya, one time chance! How many of you would have the brass cahonas to try that?</b>

You are neither our Dungeon Master nor are you the author of a tactical or quest mod. Thus we, who play Baldur's Gate 2, really can never be affected by your scenarios. So what does it really matter whether someone will have the "brass cahonas" to take up your challenge when your challenge is effectively non-existent in a computer rpg environment? We can include paper ADD as well given the setting of the internet.

BG2 essentially gives the player the ability to Dungeon master his own game. Most people prefer to have outside contractors like mod makers do most of the work for them, but the capability of changing files, stats, and quests in their game is always available to the player. If you don't like Vlad's creature powers, then change them to suit yourself. That is, assuming you know how. But then I am sure your various many decades of experience with paper AD and D will show their own on this score.

<B>and I did it with CORE RULES!</b>

Baldur's Gate 2 is a computer rpg game, not a table top AD and D adventure with you or somebody that followed Core Rules as the Dungeon Master. It's kind of why BG has a difficulty slider that has 2 settings lower than Core. People did not, in fact, buy BG2 SOA or ToB because they wanted you as their Dungeon Master. So it does not matter, in the end, what you utlimately did or did not do with CORE RULES.

This is all deja-vu to me except it is in a different IE community, different forum and about a different mod. I strongly encourage Bereth, or if not him than anyone with the knowledge, to follow through with Valiant's and Sir-Kill's idea about the webpage with the creature balance stats. That would be a gigantic resource worth 1,000,000 mithril tokens.

Also NeJ isn't finished and Vlad has more to create, so let's go easy on the balance thing. Maybe he will take the advice or use the future webpage to adjust things in a new patch or the finished third part. We have to take things the way they are sometimes and enjoy the moment and not get locked in to specifics. That gets to be a real drag for me anyway.

Valiant and I are working on exactly that now. Even though a few of you don't think it possible that the two are implementable you will find that for the most part you are wrong.

Traps can be detected, triggers and spawning can be done, docile creatures can be added through trigger (add invisibility to this and the surprises can go on). There are thousands of possibilities and your wrong about it taking longer, when you use existing tools withing the game to create the scenarios etc.

I think you need to calm down! My criticism is nothing but positive! BG does not enable you to be the DM but rather the PC and there is an extreme difference between the two. Moding allows to DM, and create the scenarios and creatures.
Your points about a tactical quest mod, is so far from D&D that it is no longer D&D, and the suggestions/examples you use are not tactical at all but merely a perversion and overbalance of the ruleset lending to the degree of difficulty. It just like I said, when I jokingly said, "just put a dragon at every door" (on another post). Understand? Now that is gross overbalance! You cannot call it D&D if you are NOT using the system, understand? The games tools are workable to a degree where you could actually create the scenarios I have given very, very simply and in every detail. REAL tactics make you think, not, just bash away at tougher creatures and die 20 times out of 21 attempts in order to proceed! This also, is Not D&D.

This game was more than just a video game where many players who never played D&D would not know, would they? To video gamers BG was just a cool video game but to D&D players, this game was an achievement that was thought could never be accomplished. It was absolutely remarkable how near perfect it was. I think many of you have forgotten this or completely ignored it or didn't know the difference!

Did you not absolutely love the game when it was new? Did you not die at least once the first time through it? Did you not, are you not, wanting much, much more of it? Isn't that the reason why you are here?

Even at it's creation, they used guides. people, helping them create it from D&D. People that could tell them what was D&D and what was not! You have forgotten the basic revolutionary idea behind this games creation. The game was designed from the start to mimic D&D AT IT'S CORE rules set! And now you think it "Not" possible? Are you kidding me? You need to "think" about what you are saying! Your not making any sense at all if you take the time to think about it!

Here's a how too!

For example; Above <B>How 'bout a scenario that could permanently kill your character if you willingly attempted it! Ya, one time chance! How many of you would have the brass cahonas to try that?</b>

You say the above scenario cannot be done. I say it can and here's how!
All it takes is a similar trigger like that found at the end of the "end game save" found in both BG and SOA! Script it to delete the last save loaded before you attempted this said battle/scenario.......=Done. In other words, if you die,,, you die = end of game!

Now could you make more saves, sure you could this is the part where it become s a video game after all, but if the above could be done, could you not also script it to erase "ALL SAVES"... (PS.. I can be truly evil).. How's that for tactical?

Here's another! Try a room full of shadows/shades in a dark room where no light exists ( in the game, they would remain invisible, and you would be told how dark the room was when you entered it. From this point until you figured it out,*using core rules and spells already in the game* all you would see is your hit points going BYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, ever so slowly! lol! Oh yes, this would shake a lot of you up, while most of you would be going "WTF"..
,,,
It's that easy! And you said it couldn't be done! The tools and script set are already there in the game! I wish I was a programmer, but I do know how programs work and keys, I just don't know the language!

Is there not a talented modder here that could achieve this above effect?

Remember, the above is just one of my ideas. I have thousands in my sleeve of tricks to confound/confuse and stupefy!

Oh, and detect invisibility is not the answer for the above

No.

ah, who cares. I don't need it to be called D&D. If you don't like the mod - don't play it, that's all about it.

Nothing but positive as in "You're not following the rules, stupid! Follow the rules, damnit! FOLLOW THE ALMIGHTY RULES!"? That's what most of your criticism looks like to me. Ah right, then there's the "I know the rules better than you. Much better than you. And you're totally wrong about everthing! [quotation of another user's reply] No, no, no, you're [all] very wrong. You haven't seen the light yet. But I can show you the light! I know the rules so much better than you!" part.
It's you who refuses to accept other opinions and who should calm down, imho.



Correct, "real" tactics in BG2 combat usually make me think about how to "bash away at tougher creatures" in a way that includes my victory. The exception might be when the creator decides that special conditions must be met. On the other hand one would have to think about how to implement those and/or if they are implementable at all.



I don't call such things "tactical". I tend to call it "retarded" or something similar. But yeah you're totally evil and all. If I want a "death = end of game" situation I'll play a no-reload-challenge instead, btw.



Assuming I, as a player, would get to read a message like "Shadow attacks X" and then turn on my cleric's turn undead ability to watch the shadows go "BYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"? Maybe the textbox should be either removed or ignored by the player. It's not D&D after all to have a textbox.



Wow, you're so great. Btw, could you please stop the unnecessary multiposting? That is confusing for my unenlightened mind.

...

Somehow, when I'm reading your postings in this thread I have to think about two sorts of "roleplayer type" which I think suit you very well. One would be "The Ex-champion" and the other "The Rulenerd" (rough translations of the original names). I don't think most users here are able to read the texts below the pictures but the pictures alone are enough to get my point, imho.

I could quote Bearwere and Clown now to further stress my opinion but... what for? Thus what's left to say is: No offense, pardon my sarcasm, pardon that I'm not impressed by your "intense" knowledge of D&D but rather annoyed by your constant bragging and all that. Yes, I do know this posting isn't really helpful in any way.

Look, (laughing), you either want this game to mimic D&D,,,,,,,,,,or you don't and NEVER understood what this game represnted.

AGAIN, I never said "Vlad, you suck" so I would prefer it if all the ignorant f***s would stop trying to put words in my mouth that I am NOT saying.

Vlad and I and Valiant have an understanding, so I abslolutely love just how ignorant some of you can get, when you think I am insulting him, when I'm not.

Unlike you,,,,,,,,,I'm here ..to help.. I am offering...to help... so........WTF are you doing?

HM?

Like I said, play IA 5.0 or IA 6.0 and then talk about its tactical challenges as it relates to D and D.



In case you haven't noticed, people primarily are not talking about your comments to or on Vlad or his mod. People are talking about your comments and claims towards them, as players.

I have been playing ALL the the mods since Teambg. I have loaded version after version so I know what is involved into creating the mods. I have the deepest respect for the modders. I can't program myself, and my expertise keeps me from learning more because of the volume of information I have to keep updated all the time keeps me busy.

But I have another expertise and that is in being a Professional DM. (yes I ran a club, and DM'd at Gencon years ago). These are the points I can and am offering. I know many people just want to play the game as it is. I have told Vlad himself that I thouhgt his work was the best so far out of all the modders, and that Valiant was a close second. This was not an asskiss, this was honesty because I have played through the others. Personally I think Horred is the absolute worst and his aproach hasn't worked sisnce he started. (he and I do not get along at all, lol)
His biggest problem is commitment and respecting requests. He promissed a new BP version well over two years ago and has left everyone hanging since.

I love Vlad and Valiant's work because they reply to and deliver on their work to create very stable mods. This is very true, but.........can their work be even better with a few simple changes that would adhere to a more enjoyable experience? Of course it can, and can through use of true D&D fashion.
Some of you who diss D&D core rules for what ever reason, may not realize what can be done, and even believe everything would become predictable. This is how predictable D&D realy is:

Over 3000 individual campaigns in publication
Over 175 rules and supplement books created
Over 1000 publications of Dragon magazine
Over 1 million magical items and creaton tables in existance
Countless Creatures in Publication
Entire Novel series in Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms etc.

Quite frankly guys, the power and possiblities that are available would take you years to learn.
But, most importantly, these supplements are all balanced perfectly to each other.

I am not saying, "only create official items and creatures" no, what I am sying is that, there creation was in respect of this greater balance so represented as well as it was in the orriginal retease of BG, SoA and ToB.
So some of you want bigger challenges, this can be done to.

How much more enjoyable do you think it would be? Put it to you another way. Mods would be more compatible with each other if they stuck to this balance. There have even been cases where a simple magical item has made an entire mod incompatible with another, for example: consider what has been done to the "Bag of Holding" by some modders.

The compatibilty between mods is the best excuse to maintain the balance. This is something forgotten or ignored by almost all modders. These are the things that should have been addressed from the start. If it had, BP would have been finished and stable..............YEARS ago. But here we are, 6 years later, and everyone is still waiting.
The loss of balance, is the main reason why it isn't! Sounds stupid, but unfortunatly it's true.

One thing Vlad and Valiant can do better than Horred is make these things work. That is yet another difference between the three!

So if you wonder if I understand how everything has come to be. I understand better than most. I warned of this years ago. Nobody listened, specialy Horred, but it looks like I was right. Don't hate me for trying to help, even if you don't like the news I give. At least I am honest! There is always a difference between what a man can do and what a man want's to do. You cannot expect to make mod after mod compatible with each other if everyone is doing there own thing and not basing it on any system at all.

Look at the BIG picture. Valliant is creating a new compatible version of his game IA, in effect respecting Vlads work (his system/efforts/creations). Think about it. How much easier would it have been, if a system was adhered to from the start?

The issue at hand here is that Vlad does not need to adhere to what you think the "right" way is.

Now, I'm going to assume you actually have played AD&D (pnp), and aren't just wiki'ing information to sound smart. Since you were a professional DM I'm certain you own a DM Guide. Maybe even the DM Guide I am looking at now.

In the Foreword of the DM Guide, David "Zeb" Cook states, "At conventions, in letters, and over the phone I'm often asked for the instant answer to a fine point of the game rules. More often than not, I come back with a question -- what do you feel is right? And the people asking the questions discover that not only can they create an answer, but that their answer is as good as anyone else's. The rules are only guidelines."

He also states in the same foreword, "Take the time to have fun with the AD&D rules. Add, create, expand, and extrapolate. Don't just let the game sit there, and don't become a rules lawyer worrying about each piddly little detail. If you can't figure out the answer, MAKE IT UP! And whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of believe these rules are complete. They are not. You cannot sit back and let the rule book do everything for you. Take the time and effort to become not just a good DM, but a brilliant one."

I don't know about you or anyone else reading this post, but these words tell me that there is no "right" way. There is only one way... the DM's way. A DM has one job and one job only, and that is to make the game fun for the players. Judging by the feedback of some of the posters, many people have enjoyed the mod.

Since you were a professional DM, I find it very hard to believe that you don't understand that in AD&D, the DM can do whatever he or she wants in their own campaign.

Why I even bothered to argue for so long, I cannot fathom. However, I think it is because I am afraid that some of the modders at the BWL might actually think your way is the "right" way, and we might lose out on fun and exciting content because the game "must follow the Core AD&D rules."

Now, I'm not saying that a fun game cannot be made if the Core Rules are followed. I'm not saying that your ideas are lame and don't make sense. However, in your posts you imply that your way is the only way, and that everyone who disagrees with you is just ignorant to AD&D. As someone who did play AD&D for years, I cannot believe how close-minded you are, and I find it hard to believe you played AD&D at all.

I believe the big picture is that you are not helping or at least devoting time to forum posts rather than something more constructive.

The only thing that should ever have mattered to you was whether you could convince Vlad to change things in his mod to what you feel would be more balanced. All these other resume you have posted is essentially irrelevant.



I'm sorry to tell you this but it has to be done. Creative impulses cannot be locked down into a tight box dictated by one person or "system". If you try, you kill it.

Is working without a system inefficient? Most likely it is. Are people getting paid to follow the dictates of the boss and company policy when making user fan mods? Not really. What is the system that every modder has to follow? Weidu, BGII game engine limitations, and script coding limitations.

Just as AD&D were the rules to run a table top game, so are the game engine limitations the common rule that binds. If you want an additional "compatibility" layer, then I hope you can afford to pay these modders a salary or commission for their work. Course otherwise, few are going to simply cooperate and put your vision above theirs without a monetary enticement.

All I am saying Yars (good to be back I had a Very long holiday), That little to "no" collaboration between modders has been attempted, Only Valliant and Vlad and a couple others have done so in any magnitude, and remember this part please; The single Biggest reason for so many versions has been directly because no system has been used, ie. everyone trying to do their own thing, then only later, trying to make it compatible. Are you going to tell me that you haven't noticed this after "7 Years" of modding Yars?

It's not that 1 person is a boss, or the like, You seem to forget about the "actual game", and how everything worked together! You are simply "Choosing to ignore the obvious". Your limited knowledge of the game system is refusing to let you aknowledge the infinite possiblities that are within the game entire. For a perfect example keep reading below.

Your looking for excuses to give modders who don't "know" about the core game (10-15% maybe), and calling it discretionery creative tactics. The simple fact is, and this point is pointless to argue against, it has moved "out" of the genre for which it was created for "in the first place", like a speedy truck in a boat race!

I am not saying, the efforts have been bad,, faaaarrrrrrr from it! Some of the stuff I have seen has been awsome, but even with your admition above seeing at least one of my points, how deviating from even a simple system can make a modders job harder. Very much so, even re-writing 1 single creature can give a modder a headache for an entire days work! But don't forget about the BIGGEST (not a yell), point; Compatibility!

This is the ship we all sail on. So for the last 7 years of modding, after all this time, getting mods to work with each other has been the biggest obstacle to get around. Whilst every other game since then has been successful with their own accomplishments, has left Baldurs Gate and it's modders in the dust! Not becuase of age, no! We have had 7 years, but because of the way you are thinking Yars, and the lack of knowledge in the basis of AD&D found as the MAIN guidline for the Entire Baldurs Gate Series!

You cannot simply choose to ignore something then expect it to work togther!

You asked earlier, "Weidu, BGII game engine limitations, and script coding limitations"? No it doesn't matter which, the problems started in the re-writing or over writing of core elements within the game, ie. the breaking of the system so to speak!

I have to be honest, when teambg started a few years back, they had the right idea. Many of the little mods and weapons etc were for the most part completely compatible! It wasn't until many of them decided to re-write core files that all of the sudden started to destroy compatibility. Now with that said, do you know "who" started that,,,,,hmm?

I can tell you! Like I said, I've been around since it's creation and my Username hasn't changed one single time, and believe you me, I had plenty of arguments with him then too. Years later, he has abandoned everyone and has YET to THIS DAY not been able to make even his own mods compatible even with itself let alone anything else (one other clue as to who I am talking about).


His name is; horred the plague

Once teambg, went to waylay, it was all open game after that, until now.

Yars, your biggest problem is that you are having a very difficult time understanding what I am saying, basing it on a rule set that already exists. Most mods if done so, would be totaly compatible. It wouldn't matter which installer would be used, if the information found within, wouldn't overwrite each other now would it?

Would it?

It would have been easier to create a sever to host files (creatures, maps etc) and then people would simply upload/download them so that they would all be interchangeable and non conflicting, then all the modders need do is scripting stories and seting spawns, tagets, triggers, texts etc.

"Creative Impulses" you mentioned, imagine how much these mods would absolutley ROCK if main files were stored on a server and how much more simple it would be to interchange or even add more aspects to a great idea! This, is "real" AD&D and how it is created, and why the system with millions of possibilities are able to be brought together! So creative impulses would be hindered they would instead be constantly built upon with each and every addition, and every bit of it would be system orriented!

Imagine it! Imagine all the mods totaly compatible with each other, now wouldnt THAT be an incredible adventure?

This is what Teambg attempted to a degree, and what Horred and others like him completely ruined years ago. You see, it was about ego with him. He was banned from teambg once as well, do you remember that?
I do, and I remember the reasons for it!

Many modders have forgotten about that, and since then their has been no central point/server for collaboration and storing of core files, compatibility has gone by by, "even" if it isn't based soley on AD&D Core rules , it would still be a system now wouldn't it?

Now with that said, and 160 million fans later, how much better would this game be, if it were core rules? How many more people would STILL be playing it? How many people have left this game behind "directly" because of the incompatibilty of the mods, "specially" BigPicture?

I spoke of the furure of the game years ago, like I am speaking of the past now! Simple truth is, I was right then, and I am right now! Once deviation from the core game was done, it would only result in incompatiblity/errors and confusion!

My last question to all of you is, How else could it have come out once core/base rules were tampered with?

The answer is, it couldn't have! It was doomed for long years of re-writes/errors and fighting for compatibility.

Vlad and Valliant are on the brink of some rather big steps here though they may not see it the way I do, and if they got together in bigger ways could pave the way to an entirely new string of mods totaly compatible with each other. These games would absolutely rock!

Now THAT, is something to look forward to isn't it?

Installation isn't the problem folks, compatibility is! That, and the waylay rules!

You may not know this about me, but if it was hard to figure out lol, Dungeons and Dragons has been my all time favorite game of all time, and this game in particular "Baldurs Gate" was SPECIFICALLY (not a yell), designed for just that exact purpose. It is not "I" who am not understanding that or how it can be modded, it is you Yars, and Horred never got it either! You see, it was based on a system! IF the modders simply built on it from the beggining (like teambg did at the start) how much better would all the mods and modding possibilities be now?

I hate to put it to you another way, this is why Neverwinter nights went open source!

One other thing Vlad and Valliant, I am almost done the list of balanced creatures vs PC as you requested.

In it will be all the the base creatures found in all three games series (yes all of them), Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape Torment. (if you are using PS creatures though some aren't due to animations).

Either way this should give you and full list of ballancing. What I am also creating is a table of tactics as well, which will also include spawning suggestions, trigger suggestions, and other special tactics which will challenge and confound players who "think" they can handle any petty little base core scenarios....
..mmmmmwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

I will make as easy as possible so creating the situations withing the game should be simple. I have got some doozies too!

Probably completely done in about 1 month.

1- IA's developer is not Valiant, it's me!

2- I'm not making a new version of IA which is compatible with Vlad's mods; I am rather making a distinct mod called "TSIA_Compatibility_Patch" which if installed in the right order after TS and IA will make those two mods compatible with each other.

3- Your recent comments about your interest in 'mod compatibility' don't look to be genuine to me. Your worries were originally (and genuinely) related to the game's difficulty. You don't seem to have the required tactical skills to play (even moderately) difficult mods and you want all creatures to have exactly those abilities you have read in your books so that you don't need to think and find new tactics during the game; (example from your own post: you want to summon a fiend and sit back to have the fiend kill everyone for you. Now, you have changed your words and have hidden your main difficulty behind comments about compatibility). See this post of mine in this very thread were I told you what you needed to hear.

4- As others have also mentioned, even your knowledge of pnp AD&D is seriously flawed (first example: the false things you wrote about dragons; second exmple: you didn't know that AD&D textbooks are merely rough and general guidelines.)

5- BG has never been supposed to be a game that follows AD&D rules accurately (even if we assume that there are any such strict rules). It's just very roughly based on AD&D.

6- Of course, I agree with Sir-Kill that if a modder wants a new and significantly tougher version of a creature-type (for example trolls); it's much better if he calls those new creatures with different names. This is exactly what I have done in IA.

Hi, new guy here.

I haven't played this mod before, so I just wanted to ask around and see if it's something I might enjoy. I've played Sikret's Improved Anvil 5 (4 playthroughs already) and I like it very much, but I'm looking for something new until v6 comes out. I dont want to uninstall IA5 unless I find something that's at least as challenging. I can't stand vanilla bg2/tob because there's so many things that can singlehandedly make the game broken and boring. Even without exploits/abuse it is still too easy.

Is Neverending Journey a tactical mod or is it more of a story mod? I read somewhere on this forum about something called Mega Install? Is that like a tactical version of NEJ? I'm looking for a mod as hard or harder than improved anvil; my only basis of comparison is IA5 as far as bg2 mods go.

Imo it has the strongest story among all IE mods, tactical part is rather a bonus.

'Mega' stands for a more than 2-3 large mods installed together. Such modifications are supported at SHS.

I've played IA v4 and NEJ time ago. IA was harder.

In that case, you shouldn't uninstall IA ever . No other mod is harder than IA or even remotely close to it, difficulty-wise.

NEJ2 is a great mod story-wise, but not challenging if compared to IA. Unfortunately, it's also incompatible with IA and will remain so. Good news is that players who are interested in playing one of Vlad's works with IA will be able to play Tortured Souls together with IA6 once the compatibility patch is released.

Thanks for your interest and trust in IA.