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The Black Wyrm's Lair - Forums > Released mods - Baldur's Gate II > Improved Anvil
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Zarion
I just found this mod a few weeks ago, and I've been playing this mod for about a week. In my current game I've just left the Underdark with my Evil Party (m/f, Korgan, Edwin, Viconia and Valen(without her lvldrain)) everyone have at least 4-5 high-level abilities and so far I've enjoyed the mod. The scripts are well done and make most battles more challenging. The upgrades are really cool, and the components from “harder” enemies makes them seem deserved.

But even though I like the mod I won't be using it after I'm done with this run-through. This is mainly due to the way you have made the enemies more challenging. You seem to have taken the use of resistances to the hearth, and that is ofcause one way of making the game harder, but I must admit I dislike it. At the moment the only spells Edwin and Viconia gets to cast are “pre-battle-buffs” and dispel effects since almost every (challenging) enemy I'm meeting are very resistant, not only to magic, but to most elemental and magical damage as well. For me that drastically cuts down on the “fun”, since it takes away the “group feel” where every class is needed to win a battle and have something to do during the battle... other then standing in a corner hiding so they won't die.

My suggestions to improve the feeling of the mod is to cut down on some of the 100% resistances this mod adds especially on “none-boss-fights” (ie insane dwarf, Firkraag-party ect.) and give them 75% resistances if you still want them to be “hard” or perhaps 50% with one or two 100% so the player have to try a bit before finding the right type of magic. Another way to do it could be to build up the resistances though the use of “forcecast” scripts on certain hp percentages. Ie; the opponent starts with 25% resistances to none melee damage, and then builds up to 50% at 75% hp and so forth.

The constant use of regeneration also bugs me a bit, especially in groupbattles where you it foceres you to focus on one target at a time, but it keeps the pressure on the player, since it means no more running out of combat to get healed, and that is a good thing smile.gif.

Well, I think that is about all I have to say, unless I find anything to add at a later time smile.gif, thanks for the mod, and all the hard work put into it.
Sikret
QUOTE(Zarion @ May 6 2007, 09:47 PM) *

My suggestions to improve the feeling of the mod is to cut down on some of the 100% resistances this mod adds especially on “none-boss-fights” (ie insane dwarf, Firkraag-party ect.) and give them 75% resistances if you still want them to be “hard” or perhaps 50% with one or two 100% so the player have to try a bit before finding the right type of magic.


Most difficult enemies are already such. Very very few enemies have 100% resistance to all types of elemental damage. Samia's party (which you mentioned) is a good example of what I say. You have just failed to find the right type of attack. It doesn't mean that they had 100% resistance to everything. They don't!

The types of resistances each enemy has are all well-thought and they have reasons.

Another player had recently written that some particular enemies (he had mentioned which enemies) could see invisible and could cast spells on invisible targets, which was not true either. Players should note that their impressions about the enemies abilities during the battle don't necessarily correspond with facts.

If you don't enjoy this level of difficult, then don't play the mod, please (as you said that you wouldn't). IA is not for every type of player. Also, playing the mod with an evil party is not really recommended, because you will lose some of the new quests.
rbeverjr
I’ll just park some of my initial impressions in this appropriately titled thread. (I’ve dabbled in IA3 without doing a complete game.)

I used a dwarf kensai protagonist (Lawful Good who will be corrupted by the darkside as the evil Bhaal powers fit a fighter much better – yep, strict power gaming for better survivability in this game), human ranger 7-cleric dual class (Jaheira), human sorcerer (Nalia), human fighter 7-wizard (Tashia), gnome fighter-illusionist multiclass (Jan), and human swashbuckler (Minsc, Imoen, and Sarevok after LG protagonist becomes NE). (I take the stats from one of the NPCs and arrange the values as I see fit; so, basically these are custom characters with programmed dialogue.) I believe this probably makes for the easiest game – at least for me. Because quest XP is a reward/character, a 6 person team is probably most efficient. The arcane is still extremely powerful and necessary in IA, in my opinion. Scrolls cost a bundle, and you can’t always depend on getting what you want; so, a sorcerer is desired. I thought the fighter 7-wizard would be more beneficial than a second sorcerer, but am not certain that this is so. At least the saving throws are better for early fights, and the fighter-wizard has a few more HP. FM have always been powerful, but IA has made them even more powerful. The fighter-illusionist is the best FM in my opinion. The kensai generally hits what he swings at – that’s pretty important. The ranger 7-cleric is much better than the multiclass RC or auramaster in my opinion. I have trouble surviving the Sikret battles unless I buff, and Holy Power is a great buff. The mix of cleric and druid spells is very nice; a cleric is extremely beneficial. I chose the swashbuckler simply because I saw the need for a tank and wanted a thief. I found that backstabbing often didn’t work when needed anyway in IA 3. One comment here: AC-18 is often not enough. Get to AC-26 as quick as you can. smile.gif

I played on Core difficulty, reduced difficulty to Easy after a few reloads, and quit a particular encounter (to be returned to later) if I couldn’t succeed on Easy. Almost everything is completed on Core. Early in IA, I found spell casters, particularly arcane casters, to be royal pains – even more so than golems, though the special spiders could be almost as bad. I had decent saves on my front line dwarf fighter and gnome FI, but they still sometimes fail early in the game. There is no way for early parties to strip Immunity Abjuration; so, other tactics must be used. Having learned some new techniques for IA, my second time through should require less reloads, thankfully.

In general, I avoided the Sikret encounters and followed the suggested (by Sikret and thetruth) quest path. I did do a few of the improved quests and headed for the underdark at apx. level 13. I was told that this was too early, but I disagree. It worked out fine. In the underdark, things got easier. I made it through with a few reloads.

After leaving the Underdark, I headed to Watcher’s Keep. I didn’t think it would be too problematic as it wasn’t in IA3. Big mistake. Sikret has cranked up the difficulty there in IA 4.2. A certain monster showed up on the first level demanding I give it something. After having my butt kick repeatedly, I decided to hand it over. sad.gif I possibly could have beat this encounter, if I rested to gain spells needed and buffed/prepared specifically for this encounter before triggering it. That’s a lot of metagaming for what’s supposed to be a surprise! (I’m anxious to hear the tactics used to defeat that encounter.) On the second level, I proceeded right through until it was time to go to the third level. That was really tough too, with the constant gating of more foes. (Last night I thought of some tactics which may have allowed my success, but I just left it for now.)

The lack of money (coupled with no stealing from shops) really cranks the difficulty. Scrolls, potions, items, and especially Sikret upgrades cost a lot. When you sell stuff, the shop keepers will let your children starve (give you little pay). I am hopeful that things will improve, but so far I don’t think I will have too many Sikret upgrades – I currently have none… Bummer, I love items and would love to try out more of them.

I think there should be more ways to bring down protections when Immunity Abjuration is up than Ruby Ray. Heck, at least allow Spell Strike to work, as it is of 2 schools (Abjuration and Alteration). (I assume Spell Strike doesn’t work.) I hope that more Immunity Divination and less Immunity Abjuration shows up in the encounters that an early party may face.

I would like it if thieves could successfully backstab more of the new (or improved) monsters. After all, my crew gets backstabbed enough. smile.gif It would also be nice if they could steal *something* from shops. After all, that’s one of the things that thieves do.

Although I have reservations concerning some of the ways that the difficulty was enhanced (proliferation of monsters with very high resistances and strength, for instance), I am enjoying my play, and my tactical ability is improving. I doubt that I could enjoy the regular game any more, because it would be far too easy.

To be continued…. I’m sure that I will have more to say once I’ve completed more of the mod.

leonidas
The problem with stealing from shops is that there is then no way to control the amount of money the player receives (as it effectively becomes infinite due to stealing and reselling, judgement day sells for 90,000 gp, for example). And monetary rewards become meaningless.

As for the spider queen, you basically need a decoy to absorb the brunt of the attacks; I had haer'dalis with pomw up. You also need chaotic commands up on everyone or they'll just run around like idiots after the barrage of vexing whispers.

I killed the ghost spiders first, because left alive they spawned more spiders than I could handle.

Aside from that, it's just a case of having enough melee strength to kill the spiders quickly.
Razfallow
QUOTE(leonidas @ May 7 2007, 05:27 PM) *

The problem with stealing from shops is that there is then no way to control the amount of money the player receives (as it effectively becomes infinite due to stealing and reselling, judgement day sells for 90,000 gp, for example). And monetary rewards become meaningless.

But what's the reason to disable both stealing and selling stolen goods? Why don't just disable option for selling stolen goods? You could steal it, but couldn't sell it back.
Baronius
I know this isn't the reason (or at least not the primary reason) why it's disabled in IA, but to tell the truth, do you see even a minimal level of realism in the following. Let's assume the shopkeeper stores his goods in a safe place. In this case, there are two explanations of how you purchase items:
1. He shows his items only when you are browsing and purchasing. In this case, stealing is possible but since the goods are there locally, why can't you just kill him and take all items?
2. He stores the items "far" away (or not, but he doesn't show them, they remain in their safe location). He actually shows only a list (and perhaps pictures about the items). In this case, neither stealing nor killing is possible to take items.

I'm aware of the fact that a good CRPG such as BG2 can't be totally realistic in many cases, or it would decrease the gaming experience. However, where it's possible, it's important to remain realistic.
thetruth

I believe that Sikret disabled stealing from shops both for realism reasons and challenge (lack of easy and unlimited amounts of gold).

IMO the ideal would be if the player could steal only a few items and only from a few lesser merchants (not from Ribald whose shop is guarded), but since the player has the reload option even this could be exploited.

Also keep in mind that some of IA's items are very powerful and forging them should not be so easy.
rbeverjr
Of course, shop-lifting is realistic. It happens all the time, and many times the thief gets away with it. Putting up a rule of NO stealing certainly makes things harder, but at the expense of realism. People have stolen prized paintings recently among other "fabulous" heists. Yes, it is possible. I don't really like the no stealing rule (but I can live with it). I would like the Prized possessions to not be available for theft, but stealing from some of the lesser merchants - a few nice (but not too nice) scrolls, potions, and lesser items, which could be sold back only to fences and only for a tenth or twentieth of their price (not making it worthwhile to try to earn money that way).

I don't think we need to be so concerned in Improved Anvil about cheating. People load up IA for the challenge. If they cheat or seek exploits, then they are just cheating themselves. Some players may need some avenue to "cheat" to bridge the gap in difficulty between Improved Anvil and other BG2 games. After all, Improved Anvil is much harder than anything else that I've found. As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to cheat, he usually will and as it is his game rather than mine, I don't care. My personal ambition is to beat IA on Insane (no cheating, of course) some day... or maybe some year. smile.gif

As far as forging IA items, well, it's a matter of opinion how easy it should be to make the items. Thetruth could beat IA with a fighter armed with a broom stick. I'm not there yet. I would like a little more money personally (in IA 5, maybe?). I personally think some of the new items should be more easily forged (money is usually the limiting factor) - those items that make the game a little easier rather than a lot easier. Of course, it should be very, very difficult to forge the Judgment Day sword and uber items. Regardless whether I can get these items, I'll improve my own tactical play, and it is improving already. smile.gif
leonidas
Hell, it's not even just a matter of realism.

IA 4 is the only game of BG 2 I've played were I haven't been able to go hog-wild stealing scrolls and potions from shops, and rather, have had to consider carefully which items and upgrades to buy.

Even if you just disable stealing on the fences, to eliminate the infinite gold exploit, there are still plenty of lesser merchants with massive stocks of items you can filch.

For instance, Mrs. Cragmoon has about 100 potions you can steal, if you're so inclined (not very balanced to have so many potions from the get-go).
thetruth
QUOTE(rbeverjr @ May 7 2007, 05:04 PM) *



After leaving the Underdark, I headed to Watcher’s Keep. I didn’t think it would be too problematic as it wasn’t in IA3. Big mistake. Sikret has cranked up the difficulty there in IA 4.2. A certain monster showed up on the first level demanding I give it something. After having my butt kick repeatedly, I decided to hand it over. sad.gif I possibly could have beat this encounter, if I rested to gain spells needed and buffed/prepared specifically for this encounter before triggering it. That’s a lot of metagaming for what’s supposed to be a surprise! (I’m anxious to hear the tactics used to defeat that encounter.)



IMO it's extremely difficult to avoid metagaming especially if you are playing with a so difficult tactical mod like IA.

If you still want to limit your metagaming, have a character with some buffs (mage+cleric) and even better with some thieving skills (Jan would be the ideal) to scout ahead in every new area you enter (especially dungeons like W.Keep).

This way you could be prepared even for this encounter.
It would limit your metagaming a lot and it is realistic, but not practical at all since it's very time-consuming and tedious after a while.

As about the battle itself, leonidas gave very good suggestions. Add Free Action and you are OK (Clerics are a must in IA).
thetruth
QUOTE(rbeverjr @ May 7 2007, 09:07 PM) *

Of course, shop-lifting is realistic. It happens all the time, and many times the thief gets away with it. Putting up a rule of NO stealing certainly makes things harder, but at the expense of realism. People have stolen prized paintings recently among other "fabulous" heists. Yes, it is possible. I don't really like the no stealing rule (but I can live with it). I would like the Prized possessions to not be available for theft, but stealing from some of the lesser merchants - a few nice (but not too nice) scrolls, potions, and lesser items, which could be sold back only to fences and only for a tenth or twentieth of their price (not making it worthwhile to try to earn money that way).



I understand what you are saying but how can this "steal a few nice (but not too nice) scrolls, potions, and lesser items" be implemented ?

And since you could sell these few lesser items at fences, it could still be exploited for easy money ((re)steal-(re)sell).

No, banning stealing totally from shops is not realistic. But reloading is not realistic as well wink.gif
IMO Sikret has found the best solution in this case.




QUOTE
I don't think we need to be so concerned in Improved Anvil about cheating. People load up IA for the challenge. If they cheat or seek exploits, then they are just cheating themselves. Some players may need some avenue to "cheat" to bridge the gap in difficulty between Improved Anvil and other BG2 games. After all, Improved Anvil is much harder than anything else that I've found. As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to cheat, he usually will and as it is his game rather than mine, I don't care.



If you want to cheat you can still do it.
CTRL-Y, CTRL-R and SK still work as far as I know tongue.gif

But Sikret's concern in this case is that having unlimited amounts of gold right out of Irenicus Dungeon would break the balance of the mod.

Still though don't worry, with good planning you will be able to forge the "good" weapons of IA when you will need them wink.gif




thetruth
@Zarion


QUOTE(Zarion @ May 6 2007, 07:17 PM) *

But even though I like the mod I won't be using it after I'm done with this run-through. This is mainly due to the way you have made the enemies more challenging. You seem to have taken the use of resistances to the hearth, and that is ofcause one way of making the game harder, but I must admit I dislike it. At the moment the only spells Edwin and Viconia gets to cast are “pre-battle-buffs” and dispel effects since almost every (challenging) enemy I'm meeting are very resistant, not only to magic, but to most elemental and magical damage as well. For me that drastically cuts down on the “fun”, since it takes away the “group feel” where every class is needed to win a battle and have something to do during the battle... other then standing in a corner hiding so they won't die.



But without these resistances some of the most difficult battles of IA would become too easy.
I know the offensive power of Mages has been limited, but keep in mind that without the res. to Magical Dmg f.e. a Sorcerer could defeat by himself all the powerful enemies of IA.

I can't see the "group feel" here.

Instead in IA, as it is now Mages and Clerics are still important.
Improved Haste, PfMEnergy, C.Commands and Free Action are just a few examples.

Limited offensively yes, but useless no way. wink.gif
Romulas
So if I might chime in here on the resistance issue.

From the old days of playing dungeons and dragons if you killed a tough enemy you got what made him tough, even more so if the enemy was another NPC. How many times do you face enemies where you have good THAC0 scores and hit very few times, yet when the battle is over the only thing that is yielded is a full set of plate mail, or when you do hit and do 3 or 4 points of damage and the battle is ended and the same thing occurs.

I think this is where most of the issues come from, if I am getting pounded by an insane dwarf then I should get more than full platemail and a warhammer +2 or 3.

Experience points are good and you defineately get a bunch when you complete the enhanced encounters but that only goes so far at the lower levels of the game, the bottom line is you need attacks and defense, i.e items of some power.

IMHO.

Romulas
Sikret
QUOTE(rbeverjr @ May 7 2007, 11:37 PM) *

I don't think we need to be so concerned in Improved Anvil about cheating. People load up IA for the challenge. If they cheat or seek exploits, then they are just cheating themselves.


I agree, but to be honest with you, one reason I disabled cheating of some items in IA was to save my own time. Some players used to cheat critical items into their games which would cause bugs if they were not gained normally during the game. Then they used to appear in forums to report bugs about IA. They were not honest enough to admit that they had cheated and then I needed to spend several hours investigating to know whether the reported bug was a genuine one or just one occurred because of the player's cheats.

rbeverjr
QUOTE(Sikret @ May 8 2007, 03:25 AM) *

QUOTE(rbeverjr @ May 7 2007, 11:37 PM) *

I don't think we need to be so concerned in Improved Anvil about cheating. People load up IA for the challenge. If they cheat or seek exploits, then they are just cheating themselves.


I agree, but to be honest with you, one reason I disabled cheating of some items in IA was to save my own time. Some players used to cheat critical items into their games which would cause bugs if they were not gained normally during the game. Then they used to appear in forums to report bugs about IA. They were not honest enough to admit that they had cheated and then I needed to spend several hours investigating to know whether the reported bug was a genuine one or just one occurred because of the player's cheats.


Well, I appreciate you doing what you must to keep the bugs out of my game. Now if I could just get control of the spiders. wink.gif

P.S. I just noticed that this could be read that I'm a big cheater (more like a little cheater, at least I would consider some of the mods and what I do to be cheats in the regular game). So, what you are doing may not be specifically protecting me, but I do appreciate all efforts to keep the game bug-free. Actually, I just now received my first Improved Anvil upgrade, at level 21. Hopefully, there will be more to come!

Now, having gone through Nalia's keep already in version 4.1, if I knew of some way to "cheat" FoA +3, I would. Is the poison head no longer found where it used to be in Watcher's Keep level 2? It wasn't there when I looked. I'm hoping I can somehow get the +4 weapon forged even if I am having problems forging the +3 weapon. I have a +2 FoA and the other appropriate (and found) head in my bottomless bag in hopes that somehow I can do something with it. If not, I'll get the real FoA in my next game.
luan
Really enjoying my first experience with IA so far, love the challenge! I've recruited all the NPC's that never really saw use in my previous games so I can experience their storyline and character. Kinda amazing how much of a fresh experience it can be with a new cast!

Decided to go with:
Swashbuckler PC
Keldorn
Jan
Aerie (looking to swap out with Valygar when I meet him)
Anomen (jeezus christ, so annoying...)
Edwin

One point of criticism though is that there seems to be a lot of dissonance between the unmodified and modified encounters. Unmodified is.... so easy it throws you off for the wonderfully scripted IA encounters. It almost makes you paranoid as to which quests you should or shouldn't partake in initially. But this is probably how it should be, dangerous quests *should* be dangerous after all.

However, it just feels that the gap is detractively large at times. Perhaps down the road after Sikret's IA major milestones are accomplished, the earlier unmodified quests could see a moderate boost in difficulty.

The Copper Coronet was awesome; the Beastmaster was really exciting. Unfortunately, I found out really quickly that the Slaver Ship as an immediate successive quest was too much for my party. I liked how Sikret blocks off the exits so that you HAVE to finish "boss areas" in 1 go. Masochistic, but realistic and rewarding.

Random notes:
The sewer party raped me something fierce lol. I'm just wondering what a powerful party is doing tramping through the sewers. They'd be better off storming the government district.
The Raksasha was an epic battle, especially when half my party can only stand around and buff! That was probably the most difficult cloak of the sewers I've ever earned.

Edit: Finally managed to kill the sewer party. Wondering why Gaius (or perhaps all of them rather) seem to have troll-like regeneration. I'm relatively sure that I stripped their protections before I could even dent them, and the fast regeneration made it extraordinarily more difficult. Is this an anti-cheese measure? It also seemed that Gaius had perma-haste?

Edit2: The Mencar Pebblecrushers party also has troll-like regeneration. I spent about 30 minutes watching my PC + Keldorn swing on Sorcerous Amon finally slaying him. All the while paranoid that he will contingency: chain lightning me. I'll just pretend everyone has potions of regeneration... lots of em!
amendara
Well I joined the forums just to offer my thanks for this great mod. So much to it and so much polish, it definately is one of the best mods out there. Some of the encounters were the most fun I've had in this game, especially the hilarious "snake gauntlet" which was just wild (and hard too).

Generally I agree with Luan. I'm not an "ultimate challenge" type of player, but I like challenge balanced with realism/immersion. That makes the contrast between nonIA encounters and IA ones rather disturbing. To have a team even remotely capable of defeating anyone improved, you just melt through everything else like butter. Also, the insane resistances and regeneration every enemy has mixed with the massive number of golems really breaks my immersion meter. Its a shame there is not a way to make the game more challenging without jacking up these supposedly rare abilities/creatures, but I do not think its possible. With its aim of making ultimate tactical puzzles and encounters, IA succeeds very well.

The quests were very finely done and interesting too and what is particularly nice after playing other tactical mods (such as BP) is the low amount of bugs. Very professionally made.

One last request I might offer is if its possible to reduce the melee dependency a bit? High magic, missle, poison, and backstab resistances pretty much streamlines combat variety of IA into two "super fighters" with 10 attacks per round and protection from magic weapons. The other character sort of play support for the meleers. I would like to see many more creatures vulnerable to poison, traps, backstabs, death magic, and missle weapons, and the melee resistances raised by these creatures to balance the challenge. Some battles would then require melee, some missle, some poison, some death magic, some backstab/traps. As it is I would say 95% of the damage done through IA was with my two main melee fighters and this starts to get monotonous after a while. Or maybe this is not possible as evertying except melee damage becomes too cheesy after a while for ultimate challenge?

Anyway, thanks again Sikret and testers. A really wonderful addition to a wonderful game you have made.

Kudos
Sikret
Welcome to BWL, Kudos/amendara!

QUOTE(amendara @ May 10 2007, 07:21 PM) *
Well I joined the forums just to offer my thanks for this great mod. So much to it and so much polish, it definately is one of the best mods out there.

I'm really glad to hear that you have enjoyed playing the mod.
QUOTE
That makes the contrast between nonIA encounters and IA ones rather disturbing. To have a team even remotely capable of defeating anyone improved, you just melt through everything else like butter


Yes, luan also made this point. What you (and luan) say is actually a request for improving every enemy in the game (to fill the gap between Improved and Unimproved enemies). With every new release we add more tactical content to the mod. Even now, IA has the largest tactical content compared to any other tactical mod you may find around (even perhaps more than the total sum of them together). We will surely add more tactical content to the mod in future releases if this is what you have in mind.

QUOTE
The quests were very finely done and interesting too and what is particularly nice after playing other tactical mods (such as BP) is the low amount of bugs. Very professionally made.


I owe this to the excellent testers who worked with me: thetruth (at the top of the list), Mordokai, Lionheart and Methusalar.
Sikret
QUOTE(luan @ May 9 2007, 06:52 AM) *
Decided to go with:
Swashbuckler PC


Don't you want to play any of the two expanded strongholds?

luan
QUOTE
Don't you want to play any of the two expanded strongholds?


Yes I do! But first I just wanted to try a class I've never had any experience with. I'll most likely make a branching savegame after I hit around level 14 and SK my main into the appropriate classes to experience the new content. After which I'll continue on with my original game.
Sikret
QUOTE(luan @ May 10 2007, 10:16 PM) *
QUOTE
Don't you want to play any of the two expanded strongholds?


Yes I do! But first I just wanted to try a class I've never had any experience with. I'll most likely make a branching savegame after I hit around level 14 and SK my main into the appropriate classes to experience the new content. After which I'll continue on with my original game.


You can dual-class your Swashbuckler to a mage.

luan
Finished all the quests and boss mobs in chapter II except Firkraag (about to engage him right now).

Initially the boss monsters felt really overbearing with the huge regeneration and resistances, but as my party powered up, encounters have reached a point of feeling "just right". Almost every improved encounter had an epic swagger about it which is great! I freaked out when Lavok went on his time-stop rampage, but fortunately he left my main PC intact for the finish.

A few comments:
IA has really improved my tactical playing. I find myself being much more attentive to detail and positioning.

I think all the huge resistances on playable NPC races are fine, as long as the player can eventually reach those levels of power. I love the challenge, but I still find it slightly immersion breaking if some NPC non-monster just has 50% physical and magic resistance while it's not possible for the player to achieve. Monsters, magical, and divine beings don't bother me though, since they don't require any justification for anything! They are unnatural by default and can possess any set of stats and power. Perhaps with IA 5 when/if bhaal spawn powers are implemented, the PC can finally gain these powerful innate resistances. Naturally, this means the newer epic final encounters will have to be even more difficult!

But that's in the spirit of IA regardless smile.gif

Golems... those things make me cringe... sturdy bastards... the Amber golem which I was not prepared for was an epic battle!

Ice dust potions! Those things are a life saver! It's a very clutch item for when there's a comet coming down on your head. I hope there are more to be found as I've only stumbled across 3 total thus far.

I can really see how money is a serious constraint. I've been focusing on getting my AC for the swashbuckler as low as possible. So many nice things I want to upgrade but not nearly enough gold (this is great since it forces me to choose, and makes each item feel special)

I think I'm going to try see how deep I can go into WK before heading off to Spellhold!
Mongerman
I can assure you money is not a big problem at the end of SOA, assuming you do the extra quests.
Sikret
QUOTE(luan @ May 14 2007, 08:45 AM) *
IA has really improved my tactical playing. I find myself being much more attentive to detail and positioning.


That's great.
QUOTE
the Amber golem which I was not prepared for was an epic battle!


Where did you meet your first Amber Golem?
QUOTE
I can really see how money is a serious constraint. I've been focusing on getting my AC for the swashbuckler as low as possible. So many nice things I want to upgrade but not nearly enough gold (this is great since it forces me to choose, and makes each item feel special)


I agree.
QUOTE
I think I'm going to try see how deep I can go into WK before heading off to Spellhold!


Make sure that you have Black Spider Figurine with yourself when you go to the first level of WK to see a new encounter.

BTW, haven't you dual-class to mage yet? If you delay too much, it will be difficult to reactivate the Swashbuckler abilities and it will take a long time.

luan
QUOTE
Where did you meet your first Amber Golem?

It was with Borinall's group. I thought things were going smoothly until I realized all my guys were getting electrocuted with the golem feedback shock. It was down to wire with everyone at >10 hp and the Amber golem at Near Death. As a last ditch effort I had my main character run in circles while everyone else played kamikaze... Then I realized I had a cloak of the sewers on Jan's corpse, which fortunately gave me enough HP back to finish off the golem.

QUOTE

Make sure that you have Black Spider Figurine with yourself when you go to the first level of WK to see a new encounter.

I use it extensively to bait enemy spell casters to waste a round casting death spells! Very handy!

QUOTE
BTW, haven't you dual-class to mage yet? If you delay too much, it will be difficult to reactivate the Swashbuckler abilities and it will take a long time.

I have a save game that I will play through to experience the new content as a dual class. Once i'm finished with that I'll just continue with my original character single-class.

Sikret
QUOTE(luan @ May 14 2007, 02:43 PM) *
I have a save game that I will play through to experience the new content as a dual class. Once i'm finished with that I'll just continue with my original character single-class.


One of the new features added for mage protagonists will happen at the end of TOB. You will not finish the new content soon. smile.gif

Romulas
Sikret

Speaking of mage content, is there anymore after the pasha shows up and the clobbering at the docks? Talking about shadows of amn. I had the encounter in the docks now nothing has happened, probably 2 weeks have gone by in game time.

By the way, the encounter in the docks and pasha encounter I had to reduce difficulty. There was just no way to do enough damage before getting waxed. Its too bad I couldn't redo those encounters with the party I have now, they are higher level and could handle more. One other question is it by design to only display a -24 for AC?

Romulas
Sikret
QUOTE(Romulas @ May 14 2007, 05:54 PM) *

Speaking of mage content, is there anymore after the pasha shows up and the clobbering at the docks? Talking about shadows of amn. I had the encounter in the docks now nothing has happened, probably 2 weeks have gone by in game time.


SPOILERS:

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If you sided with Pasha (against Marvella) and if he survived the encounter, he will show up again to help you in EDE at the end of TOB (and he will be much more powerful at that time).

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End of spoilers

QUOTE
One other question is it by design to only display a -24 for AC?


I guess the best possible AC is -26 (is it -24?) and it is a feature of the original game. I have done nothing about it.
luan
QUOTE
One of the new features added for mage protagonists will happen at the end of TOB. You will not finish the new content soon.

Haha oh man...

QUOTE
I guess the best possible AC is -26 (is it -24?) and it is a feature of the original game. I have done nothing about it.

I can get -26 in my game, so I think that is the cap.
rbeverjr
Copied from a BG2 forum:

AC. The game engine counts down to -30. The lowest regular AC you can get is -26... possibly -28 if you take the evil path in hell and have two points in single weapon style. Single weapon style is what gets it down to -26. With a shield the lowest is -24. Then there are the modifiers to slashing, blunt, piercing, and missile AC. Missile AC for instance is modified by sword and shield style, belt of piercing, cloak of displacement etc. You can easily get more than -10 in the missile modifier. However lower than total of -30 is useless. (you put the two together, AC -10 and modifier -3 against slashing means effective AC -13 against slashing). There are a few, at least one, enemy in the game with thac0 -20, but, if your effective AC is -30, that will still be a miss 50% of the time. So low AC can be very good, especially combined with regenerating equipment. Monks probably get down to -30 against missiles at the cap for instance. I feel that with the lowest possible AC you don’t get hit very often, even by bosses. Being hit not only damages you and disrupts spellcasting but it also disrupts attacking so it is a good idea to not get hit.
Romulas
QUOTE(rbeverjr @ May 14 2007, 12:06 PM) *

Copied from a BG2 forum:

AC. The game engine counts down to -30. The lowest regular AC you can get is -26... possibly -28 if you take the evil path in hell and have two points in single weapon style. Single weapon style is what gets it down to -26. With a shield the lowest is -24. Then there are the modifiers to slashing, blunt, piercing, and missile AC. Missile AC for instance is modified by sword and shield style, belt of piercing, cloak of displacement etc. You can easily get more than -10 in the missile modifier. However lower than total of -30 is useless. (you put the two together, AC -10 and modifier -3 against slashing means effective AC -13 against slashing). There are a few, at least one, enemy in the game with thac0 -20, but, if your effective AC is -30, that will still be a miss 50% of the time. So low AC can be very good, especially combined with regenerating equipment. Monks probably get down to -30 against missiles at the cap for instance. I feel that with the lowest possible AC you don’t get hit very often, even by bosses. Being hit not only damages you and disrupts spellcasting but it also disrupts attacking so it is a good idea to not get hit.


You are a fountain of knowlege, this explains why I can only get to -24, thanks.

Romulas
Sikret
Sorry for the delayed reply. I had somehow missed this question:

QUOTE(luan @ May 9 2007, 06:52 AM) *
Edit: Finally managed to kill the sewer party. Wondering why Gaius (or perhaps all of them rather) seem to have troll-like regeneration. I'm relatively sure that I stripped their protections before I could even dent them, and the fast regeneration made it extraordinarily more difficult. Is this an anti-cheese measure?


Yes, it's exactly an anti-cheese measure against hit-&-run tactics with ranged weapons. The known old cheesy method was to hit the enemy with a ranged weapon from distance and flee; return for a second hit and flee again, and so on till the enemy falls. This kind of cheesy method will be successfully blocked with that slow regeneration rate some of the enemies have. If you stand and fight normally, that slow rate of regeneration will have little (if any) effect on the battle. (Some enemies have faster regeneration rate than others, of course.)
luan
I guess I engaged the encounter a little too early (don't recall exactly what my level was, but it was one of the first initial improved encounters I tackled).
luan
Just maimed the Chromatic Demon. To my surprise he wasn't very resistant to crowd control attacks. Managed to turn him into a wailing Emo-child on a couple occassions. What struck me as odd was that he could still cast death spells on my summons despite under the influence of emotion!

I think the next time I play IA I'll omit installation of Unfinished Business and the Quest pack so as to not gain so much extra experience in chapter 2. Currently my party runs around 2.5mil experience points.

The only encounters I've had to bypass so far is the extra encounter in WK1 and Kangaxx! I also haven't attempted the new encounter in the graveyard after obtaining Daystar.

Regardless, I'm having great fun, and that's what is important. Cheers!
luan
My goodness, just received Vanya's quest. Pretty awesome but I think i'm going to have to put this one off until chapter 6!
Same with the new Daystar encounter.

I was going to comment on how the enemy NPCs would be drastically more difficult if they constantly dispelled throughout the battle. Well, a particular demon lord had a nice retort for that already!
luan
Made it down to level 4 in WK. It might be something to consider to block off access to WK until chapter 6.

I'm accumulating experience at a tremendous rate with relative ease. My characters are around 3.3m a piece, grabbing their first HLAs... and have yet to pay Gaelan! I also now realize just how sickly strong a Swashbuckler is with UAI. I'm running around with a huge damage bonus, permanent 8 attacks a turn via the improved boots of haste, -24ac, and extremely low saving throws... and nearly 50% physical damage resistance from the monk amulet and Jan's armor...

Overpowered!!!

Anyhow, a comment on the Supreme Leader encounter. I think repositioning him further back from the door towards the center of the room would be wise. As it is, the door often obstructs targeting. Additionally, the summons + golems create a chokepoint such that subsequent summons are unreachable and multiply exponentially without any option for recourse.

When I did coerce him to chase me to the center of room, the encounter was much more fluid to execute. However, if he decides to stay near the door, it's pretty much impossible.

Excuse if below is just a bug, but the Mlar and Hr'a'cknir were not triggering hostility when they spawned and remained neutral. This would render them immune to AOE spells and prevented me from reading their condition (injured/near death).
Sikret
QUOTE(luan @ May 16 2007, 01:19 AM) *
Just maimed the Chromatic Demon. To my surprise he wasn't very resistant to crowd control attacks. Managed to turn him into a wailing Emo-child on a couple occassions. What struck me as odd was that he could still cast death spells on my summons despite under the influence of emotion!


Yes, this is a bug of the original game. Even UmberHulks can cast their Confusions while unconscious. I noticed this bug about a week ago and fixed it in my local version of the mod (will be there in IA v4.3). As I said, it a general bug in the original game. But demons are immune to unconsciousness in Improved Anvil; so this bug should not have occurred for the chromaitc Demon. Have you possibly installed any mods after IA which might have changed things.

Sikret
QUOTE(luan @ May 16 2007, 12:46 PM) *

I'm accumulating experience at a tremendous rate with relative ease. My characters are around 3.3m a piece, grabbing their first HLAs... and have yet to pay Gaelan! I also now realize just how sickly strong a Swashbuckler is with UAI. I'm running around with a huge damage bonus, permanent 8 attacks a turn via the improved boots of haste, -24ac, and extremely low saving throws... and nearly 50% physical damage resistance from the monk amulet and Jan's armor...


Many of the most powerful items of IA are not usable by thieves even after they gain the "Use Any Item" ability. The amulet and Jan's armor are not among them though.
QUOTE
Also perhaps consider having the Mlar and Hr'a'cknir summons immediately trigger hostility so that AOE spells can affect them in addition to not constantly having to force manual attack.


This is intentional. It has two reasons. One of the reasons is to add to the difficulty of this battle and the second reason has role playing backgrounds. If you have studied about Githyanki culture, you know that Mlars and Hr'a'cknirs are not combar sort of characters, they are artists to make constructions. (You said that your party is overpowered and asked for blocking access to WK till chapter 6 and now you ask to change creatures to make them vulnerable to more offensive spells? Do you now want the game to be easier or more difficult in WK? laugh.gif )

luan
QUOTE
This is intentional. It has two reasons. One of the reasons is to add to the difficulty of this battle and the second reason has role playing backgrounds. If you have studied about Githyanki culture, you know that Mlars and Hr'a'cknirs are not combar sort of characters, they are artists to make constructions. (You said that your party is overpowered and asked for blocking access to WK till chapter 6 and now you ask to change creatures to make them vulnerable to more offensive spells? Do you now want the game to be easier or more difficult in WK? laugh.gif )


I'd never want it easier! I am unaware of Githyanki culture so that's just my ignorance talking, pardon. However, if they are actively making war machines to obliterate my party, I would consider them hostile creatures! It's like war machine factories, which are the initial targets in war!

Anyhow, I understand your reasoning and won't argue. I did just manage to beat the encounter after luring him out of that chokepoint.

In regards to WK difficulty, my humble opinion is that it requires quite a boost. I don't think a chapter 2 party should have any business in such a high reward area. Note that I have skipped the special encounter on WK 1, and am fully aware that the new dragon is probably going to be a brick wall to stop my momentum. The problem arises in that I could actually get *that* far down there, reaping most of the rewards from WK.

QUOTE
Yes, this is a bug of the original game. Even UmberHulks can cast their Confusions while unconscious. I noticed this bug about a week ago and fixed it in my local version of the mod (will be there in IA v4.3). As I said, it a general bug in the original game. But demons are immune to unconsciousness in Improved Anvil; so this bug should not have occurred for the chromaitc Demon. Have you possibly installed any mods after IA which might have changed things.

To be honest, this was the only encounter where I noticed a Demon rendered unconscious. I was actually so surprised I opened up his file in NearInfinity to check if he was indeed a demon.

I looked through his immunities but I didn't really know what to look for. I saw no protection from spell "emotion" however.

As for mods, I only have bg2 tweak pack (essentially only for the stackable ammo and similar ease-of-use components), unfinished business, quest pack, ascension, and banter pack. I was very careful to follow your installation instructions so I don't really think there is anything that would conflict with the chromatic demon.

Him just falling unconscious really took me by surprise. Though he just as soon stood back up and started swinging for the fences.
thetruth
QUOTE(luan @ May 16 2007, 10:16 AM) *

Made it down to level 4 in WK. It might be something to consider to block off access to WK until chapter 6.

I'm accumulating experience at a tremendous rate with relative ease. My characters are around 3.3m a piece, grabbing their first HLAs... and have yet to pay Gaelan! I also now realize just how sickly strong a Swashbuckler is with UAI. I'm running around with a huge damage bonus, permanent 8 attacks a turn via the improved boots of haste, -24ac, and extremely low saving throws... and nearly 50% physical damage resistance from the monk amulet and Jan's armor...

Overpowered!!!




Yes a Swashbuckler with those items is indeed overpowered.
But if you think that it unbalances your game you could not use them wink.gif .

Usually players complain about the difficulty of IA, so Sikret has done well to leave these options for those players.
The same is true for W.Keep. If you do it in ToB you will have a much more challenging SoA part.
Sikret
Is Improved Anvil the last mod you have installed, luan? You can look at the Wiedu.log file in your BG2 main folder to make sure. Improved Anvil must be the final mod in the list.
luan
QUOTE
Yes a Swashbuckler with those items is indeed overpowered.
But if you think that it unbalances your game you could not use them wink.gif .

Usually players complain about the difficulty of IA, so Sikret has done well to leave these options for those players.
The same is true for W.Keep. If you do it in ToB you will have a much more challenging SoA part.

Yes, I completely agree. This is more an exploration run for me more than anything as I wanted to experience the new story lines from NPC's i've always disregarded in the past. At the same time I could share my experiences and give feedback for you guys to make this awesome mod even awesomer smile.gif

For my next run through (IA v5), I'm most likely going to omit installation of any other mods aside from banterpack, ease-of-use, and IA. As great as these supplement mods are, it negatively alters balance of encounters by giving you so much extra experience points. An alternative is that I might try to find a mod that cuts experience gain by 20% or so to compensate.

Worse comes to worse with my current run through, I'll just reload back to after I finished the planar sphere, and just get on my way to saving Imoen. She's been hanging out in a jail cell for quite a while now =P
QUOTE
Is Improved Anvil the last mod you have installed, luan? You can look at the Wiedu.log file in your BG2 main folder to make sure. Improved Anvil must be the final mod in the list.

Yes, it is the last mod i've installed, I'll PM you my log.

Edit: Did you receive my PM? I don't want to send a duplicate but my "sent" box records no messages
thetruth
QUOTE(luan @ May 16 2007, 10:57 AM) *


For my next run through (IA v5), I'm most likely going to omit installation of any other mods aside from banterpack, ease-of-use, and IA. As great as these supplement mods are, it negatively alters balance of encounters by giving you so much extra experience points.An alternative is that I might try to find a mod that cuts experience gain by 20% or so to compensate.


I agree.
Btw I think luan is one of the few players who don't complain about the difficult of IA. Sikret should appreciate it tongue.gif .

Sikret
QUOTE(thetruth @ May 16 2007, 01:57 PM) *
Btw I think luan is one of the few players who don't complain about the difficult of IA. Sikret should appreciate it tongue.gif


Yes, we have a proverb which says, "he is a more devoted Catholic than Pope". laugh.gif But, seriously, I really appreciate his interest in the mod and his reports as well (everyone's actually).

Baronius
QUOTE(luan)
Edit: Did you receive my PM? I don't want to send a duplicate but my "sent" box records no messages

The forum doesn't save them by default. There is a checkbox in the Options section (in the bottom of your PM' page): "Add a copy of this message to my sent items folder". Tick it before clicking Send.
luan
QUOTE
The forum doesn't save them by default. There is a checkbox in the Options section (in the bottom of your PM' page): "Add a copy of this message to my sent items folder". Tick it before clicking Send.

Ah, good to know, thanks.

Just went through hell and back with the Orc Horde trial. Sheesh, I never thought it would end. Was very elated when the Helmite ghost finally popped up.

That truly felt like a horde. I'm am so stoked to see just what Sikret has in store for Yaga-Shura!

Edit: My WK adventure seems to have came to an end. Dragon is too mighty! I shall return at a later date!
luan
Just successfully completed the post-firkraag adventure, intense! Beat it twice because it was so much fun the first time that I wanted to try different tactics.

[possible spoiler]

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2nd attempt was slightly cheesy compared to the blitzkrieg of my first attempt. I utilized a time-trap, ran all the way to the back, and exploded the Guildmaster! Haha, the irony of the situation (assassinating the chief assassin) allowed for maximum satisfaction.

Now I know that only very, very powerful beings should be immune to time stop, but maybe the guild master should also be immune? He is the head honcho of the assassins for a very powerful organization after all.
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[/possible spoiler]

Daystar encounter was also great fun (maybe add a couple Lich since he's lord of the dead?), as was the WK floor one. Noble spider rocks!

Well... I guess that wraps it up for Chapter 2, off to save Imoen with my 4+ mil party! biggrin.gif

Imoen is going to be like wtf?

Edit: Vanya seems to have more tasks, I shall wait a few days biggrin.gif
Sikret
QUOTE(luan @ May 17 2007, 02:37 PM) *
He is the head honcho of the assassins for a very powerful organization after all.


He has a boss whom you will meet only if you play a ranger protagonist. cool.gif

thetruth
QUOTE(Sikret @ May 17 2007, 05:54 PM) *

QUOTE(luan @ May 17 2007, 02:37 PM) *
He is the head honcho of the assassins for a very powerful organization after all.


He has a boss whom you will meet only if you play a ranger protagonist. cool.gif



Yes playing with a Ranger as protagonist has its drawbacks as well tongue.gif .
luan
I think I'm going to have nightmares about cobras... clever location to place the queen, but perhaps a hint would help. "You hear a long drawn out hiss emanating from XXX" or so as you pass by... I must have spent a good 30 minutes with my swashbuckler sneaking around to no avail.
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