Heya all !

I've been playing BG since its release back in the days, and I started playing modules 10 years ago or so.
Been trying a lot of them, but I must admit Improved Anvil is simply the best - by far - I've ever been given a chance to play.

I could probably discuss this for hours, but this is not the point here, as I'm simply after some advices for my new party composition. Tried out Vagrant and Necro runs lately, both on core difficulty, but I always end up getting bored once I get out of Underdark, my parties being suboptimal for the hardest fights coming up then. I underestimated the importance of damage resistance, and the lack of stoneskinned characters got my party nuked within a few seconds in several fights (in Watcher's Keep especially, and against golems in general).

I also tend to make as much items as possible, even if some are actually pretty irrelevant, so I eventually miss money for the best ones. I'll use a crafting planner for my next runs !

Even though i LOVE the riskbreaker kit, I also try to play with as much Bioware NPCs as possible, I like the banters, makes my party feel alive. Obviously, IA is not the mod for roleplay, but I'd like at least half of it to be vanilla toons.

Anyway, here is what I'd like in my party, knowing that I really tend to favor melees over casters, which tends to be a mistake I guess, given my brutish playstyle (stoneskin helps, again).


Melees : I like having 3 warriors, but I end up having to choose between Valygar and his awesome items, and 1 or 2 riskbreakers, knowing I also would like to have a potent 2-hander to wield those great halberds.

Divine : I love Jaheira's kit, the Avenger. Exactly the kind of divine caster I'm looking for, and she is a great 2-hander too. So Jaheira is maybe THE character I want to have in my party. But I find Cernd pretty awesome too, and I'm wondering if the lack of a proper cleric (greater restauration, and general undead protections) might not make the game harder. Or is Jaheira + Cernd a decent combo healingwise, then I'd have to rely on... something else for restauration purposes.

Arcane : I guess Necro protagonist is the way to go if I want a melee-oriented party, but then I can forget Judgment Day, which kind of BOTHERS ME ! (maybe there is a way to trick this with NearInfinity ? not really into this stuff but heh, I love dat sword !). Do I need another caster or can a Necro handle all the casting by himself ?

In other words, is this party any viable ?

Necro PC
Valygar
Riskbreaker
Riskbreaker -OR- Minsc/Custom Half-Orc Barb -OR- Berserker ***** halberds -OR- Kensaï ***** halberds -OR- Half-orc fighter/cleric -OR- Berserker 9 dualled to mage.
Jaheira
Cernd

My post my be a wee bit unclear overall, feel free to ask for more accuracy. I don't think I've been spoiling anything here, but if need be, erase/hide the spoilish parts.

Thanks again for this wonderful mod, I can't wait to play it seriously with a relevant party.

Hi Tarnesh, I'm glad that there are still some players that are interested in this mod!

I've played IA like 10 times but 6 of them succeeded and I'm a tester for the upcoming v7 at the moment, so I think that my words have some value

Necro - certainly he's the most powerful arcane caster and he won't have problems with all stuff that mages in your party have to do, so no need for more arcane casters, although you might be lacking some arcane power before and during underdark. When you forge MotA necro can show his real power. 2 casters would be more flexible, but I managed to win the mod with only 1 illusionist so it's doable.

Cernd and Jaheira are a good combination. They don't use the same set of items really(if that second druid helmet is available in 6.2 for non-druid protags) and have totally different purposes in party. Having Cernd will also make your clan hunter(Jaheira's summon) much more durable due to his insta-heal, and believe me, buffed clan hunter on 25'th level can solo an elemental golem if no iron skin spell is interrupted!

Valygar is a great fighter in IA, his items make him really durable and racial combat can be extremely helpful + don't forget about his 3rd level spell! Permanent IH, great AC, a bit too overpowered armor and healing sword will really help him stay alive. A good choice for your party! And he can easily put some ** into some 2-h weapons and make good use of them.

If you want to make perfect use of your 2h weapons - take half orc kensai! You only have to remember that they're not to be put in first ranks, hide them behind IS/SS characters or summons and see how they obliterate your enemies! (really, kensai with right gear and critical strike can take 1 gem golem per round in final parts of IA). Minsc is also a perfect choice OR evil barbarian(becaue human flesh armor), with 60% DR you don't have to worry too much about golems.

Your party should be able to get through all IA without too many problems whichever fighter you take for your 4'th slot, good luck with this attempt! We'd love to read about your progress too!

If you don't mind, here are some other parties that can be used:

Necro
R(7)/C or Anomen
Kensai/RB
RB/Kensai
Jaheira
Berserker(9)/mage

This is probably one of the best damage-dealing parties you can get in IA with perfect tanking(4 characters with SS/IS), 2 arcane casters, Greater restoration and such. It lacks BW NPCs though

Necro
Jaheira
Rasaad
Cernd
Kensai/Minsc
Valygar/any other fighter

In 6.2 monks are extremely powerful. They need only like 2 or 3 items to be deadly, have perfect DR (40 from hardiness, 10 from amulet, 20 from diamond body and Rasaad can have additional 10% from his boots) and regeneration that is doubled by IH. At the moment they only lack other types of damage than crushing, but anyway crushing>all else in IA. This party shows that for the most part BW NPCs can be useful in IA. This party lacks some punch if you take all-NPC-version, but with a bit of patience you can still have lots of fun!

Most of the Bioware NPCs have actually been made quite strong. The only Bioware NPCs to avoid at the moment are Haer'Dalis, Yoshimo, and Aerie - the rest should be acceptable.

For many of the later fights, particularly if you haven't played them yet, you will want access to greater restoration. Hence, I would include a cleric into your build. You would not be dissatisfied with a party comprising the following:

Necro PC
Jaheira
Minsc
Valygar
Mazzy
Anomen

Objectively riskbreakers put out more damage than either Valygar or Mazzy, an R->C dual is stronger than Anomen (ironskins, creeping doom), and an evil half orc (or dwarf) barbarian is stronger than Minsc (access to a few evil-only IA items), but you will enjoy the above party.

Hey SparrowJacek, thanks for this fast answer !

I like both of your parties right there. Especially the second one. Tried Rasaad on my first run and once he reached mid-game, he was a real killing machine !

By the way, I play on BG2:EE 1.3, with recommended Ease-of-Use components, Dungeon-be-Gone (until IA improves Irenicus dungeon, got a few ideas on that btw), and IA 6.2. Seems like The Four requires to detect a ToB version of some kind which makes the install fails on EE 1.3. If ye got tips on "The Four" installation i'd be glad to hear them !

Here are my first thoughts about these parties of yours :


First party :

Necro => yeah obv (I'm just worried about the randomness of achieving Memory of the Apprenti, given that Robe of the Apprenti is not a guarantee success in making.)

R(7)/C or Anomen => I'm not really into these splits, as in my installation, R/dualledC doesn't get stoneskin as a lvl 5 spell. I tried Anomen once, and even though he shines early/mid game, I really felt like he was just extremely expensive to gear up weaponwise, and quite weak as a tank and a warrior. So overall i'd rather go for a multiclass, to eventually reach warrior HLA, even though they're quite delayed.

Kensai/RB => Love RB. Kensaï too, I'll probably get both of them, but I like barbarian and berserker too.

RB/Kensai=> same

Jaheira => <3

Berserker(9)/mage => I know this split is powerful, but I can't make a decent use of it. I feel like they're quite weak as a fighter (Tenser's and Improved Tenser helps though ofc), and can't compete with an extra sorcerer in terms of spellpower. So I think I'd prefer the second party as I focus all my arcane build on Necro PC. And the lack of proper Casting time reduction items hurts a bit IMO, given that everything will go to my necro.


Second party :

Necro => yeah baby yeah !

Jaheira => <3 ! Golem Slayer Rod eventually for sure.

Rasaad => would love to have Rasaad in my runs. Or normal monk or dark moon, for a change, but I read somewhere their abilities are more of a flavor in IA, so Rasaad makes it a Bioware NPC : ) !

Cernd => Love Cernd character and kit. Reminds me of Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks if you know. Voice, face, metaphors everwyhere !SPOILER!


Kensai/Minsc => I'll probably go for a Kensaï here, even though I love Minsc since my first BG1 plays. Or custom berserker or barb*(see below) ?

Valygar/any other fighter => Valygar items are so expensive, and I find the riskbreaker (eventually) more powerful, but I love the guy too. RB would be blunt user here, probably FoA + Phosphorus, or should I wait for Crom Fayer ?


I guess money management might be the key for a good party composition here, and that's my main problem in game : I wanna build everything ! I'll try to list my building wishes here to change them into something more realistical !

*By the way, is a Evil Barbarian or Berserker worth using with a shield ? I find the axe meant for them pretty neat (klogorath upgrade), and I wonder how it would perform overall as a shield user, as a main tank I mean. I guess wanting AC on a barb is quite stupid, since his rage reduces AC, but he already has some nice defenses (20% damage red) and maybe is able to reach some decent AC -15/20 making him a good damage-eater. Or is it irrelevant, if not strictly impossible ?

More questions again. Ain't gonna start a new party til next week, got some exams incoming. I'll probably write down my run as you suggested, sounds like a fun idea RPwise, and I loved reading the ones on this forum, helped me a lot !

Just sent my previous message, didnt see your answer at that time.
My installation doesnt give ironskins and creeping doom to R=>C so I ain't got no solution to have both Greater Restauration AND Ironskins on one character. Kinda hurts building tbh.

Mazzy has some good stuff too, noticed her, but I don't find her item limitations (as in small people grand masteries) very relevant in IA, especially crushingwise. Does she perform good in the late game in comparison to a riskbreaker for example ?

You can change it, take a look at that thread https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/43158...et-druid-spells



No, only Kensai is more powerful than RB but more balanced(sorry, I detest RB with all my heart and never even played with one). Here I'll also answer your second question, that one about barbs and shields - Mazzy's shield is probably the only shield you'd like to use for physical protections. Since shields aren't popular at all in IA I wanted to make something that would encourage players to use them and that is how this shield was created. With her new short sword Mazzy can be of real help during some fights, 7APR with good chance of casting GM one enemies and 20% chance to deal a nice amount of crushing damage + that additional 5AC and 10DR from shield is worth giving her a try. Also she has many other uses with her abilities, they're very well balanced and useful throughout the whole game(apart from haste maybe).

If you want to use characters with good AC, then Anomen or better R/C are the only good options(and as lesser damage dealers, they don't lose that much if you use shields and not offhand weapons!). You can read HTRT's insane run to get more info about AC and how perfect his tank was
Bulian is right - during your first full run you definitely should have a character that can cast GR. Cernd is a good healer, but being able to heal entire party 12 times per sleep is much better.

As for flail/warhammer - just be sure to have 1 character that can use flails pre-spellhold. If you have 2 characters that use 2 weapons, make one use flails and second one use war hammers.

If you don't like B(9)/M, take Neera, she's the best sorcerer you can have with necro protag(only she has -1 casting speed on her robes). If you want, there is also Kensai(15)/Mage - you'll get back your class slightly after underdark, but Nicoper says that this combination is simply the best one. (thaco of a 20 level fighter, +5damage and access to wizard spells), I wouldn't recommend that one before you finish whole IA at least once though.

The four - sorry, never played that one so I can't help you.

How to install The Four in BG2EE:
http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?...r&pid=51638

Ill give her a try for sure, her shield seemed very sexy indeed ! Didnt know about that thingie with cleric/ranger spell bug, gonna switch that right away.
About shields, I've been thinking that given their relative uselessness. The DR part (armor of faith IIRC) in Mazzy shield could be a good way, implemented on other powerful shields, to make sword&board style a bit more viable on IA, as in 5-10% DR. After all, if a Two-handed sword can do that, so does a good shield. Just an idea, I don't know how game-breaking this would be.

About GR, i guess i'll still grab a cleric somehow, C/R seems perfect anyway. Is a multiclass R/C eventually a good choice, assuming I make it to late game when he starts having warrior HLA and lvl 7 spells ? Or is early GR too much to give up ? Cause I'd be then happy to have him or her dual-wield (Crom Fayer ! : ) ) as a ranger, and be my actual ranger in the party (thinking boots mostly, would give up on Valygar then... well maybe )

I'll think about all this, considering choosing between Cernd and Jaheira, and probably including Mazzy in somehow.

Thx for "the Four" tip Azoth : )

Both RC multi and dual have different strengths. The dual doesn't have the combat effectiveness of the multi but has a lot more GR spellcasting abilities and has higher level buffs that can't be dispelled as easily, which is quite important for some fights. Once you have about 3 GR, you should be able to make it through almost every fight in the game with the proper strategy.

Long term (WK 5 and beyond) the multi is better due to having many CS and +1 APR, but I would probably recommend the dual class for you.

I indeed went for dual R/C. Made it up to Underdark so far, about to face Master Brain, did beholder too (waiting just a wee bit for deeper underdark) and kuo-toan caverns.

Party is composed of :

Rodgerth Necro PC
Velvet Thunder Half-orc NE barbarian
Brega Lissan dual R/C
Rasaad
Valygar
Jaheira

I'll post my walkthrough soon, it's just kinda messy (dunno how to make it clear enough). Party is performing just fine, I really do enjoy the barbarian.

I'm just sad I'll probably won't get robe of the apprenti, while I was counting on it. Not that I *need* it, it's just that my necro is solo casting this and I could use a few more spells from its wonderful upgrade.

Thanks for the tips everyone, this run is some great stuff to enjoy !

Why not? It should be fairly guaranteed if you have necro with high wisdom and intelligence.

Necro indeed has 18 int and 18 wis, still they won't make it.
Tried it when i started mage stronghold. I made the apprentis do their stuff while resting until crafting time was up (reloaded then, was just to check it out). Even when the 3 of them are alive, they still don't make it, and I know about Sikret's implement on this, so no point reloading endlessly. Bad luck I guess.

Decided to let them "study" while I'm on Spellhold/Underdark (didnt start any crafting yet). To be honnest, I wouldn't mind "cheating" to get it, as in just breaking the code line that prevent robe of the apprenti from being made. I know about the anti-cheat policy and such, so I won't beg for it. Though, if someone is willing to PM me the way to do that, I'd be glad to try it out.