Had a lot of fun doing this mod with a necromancer PC (much easier than my first run through with a vagrant).
My party was heavily warrior oriented:
Necromancer
Riskbreaker
Riskbreaker
Assassin/Fighter dual
Kensai/Mage dual
Ranger/Cleric multi
Riskbreakers are definitely better in two's, and I suspect even three would have worked well.
The Assassin was dualed once getting the Use Any Item high level ability. (Interestingly, it appears Fighter/Thief multiclasses don't get it in this mod?!). He was my most interesting character by far. Most IA items don't work with UAI, but Cernd's Cloak and the Scarlet Ioun Stone are two exceptions that I enjoyed. UAI follows your dualed fighter, so you are definitely a useful character well before you get your thief levels back. In fact, getting your thief levels back gets you basically nothing (poison weapon, yay) and maybe the +1 to hit and damage from being an assassin. I tried to focus on Physical Resistance items on this character, theorizing that I could get up to 95% once I hit HLAs on the fighter half and could choose Hardiness. But this involved some bad items (Warblade, Master of Disciplines un-upgraded). I much preferred to use the Royal Elemental Staff, which allowed for Tenser's Transformation to give me another 100+ HPs, with no loss in functionality - you can still use scrolls and such while transformed. I was bummed to see how poorly Backstab works in this mod, especially since the marquee thief dagger grants it as an ability. You can basically backstab spiders and vanilla creatures only. The hard foes - all golems, rakshasas, dragons, etc., looked to be immune.
Kensay was dualed at level 15, figuring that the +5 to hit would give it the same Thac0 as a level 20 warrior. The down time was rough, but it largely overlapped with my Assassin being dualed to a fighter, so I was basically a 5-person party up until around 7M experience.
Ranger/Cleric seems to classically be dualed here, and if I remembered that Holy Power spell which would give you fighter Thac0, I might have gone that route. I really just wanted this character to be a competent fighter the whole time, but more than half the time she was out of combat casting healing spells anyways.
Overall, the Necromancer is much easier than the Vagrant PC, with a much better storyline and side quests (in my opinion). Being un-silenceable against some big dragons is hugely important, and many castings of Recast Vital Energy help warriors stay in fights and dish out damage fast.
One thing I was surprised about was how journal posters somewhat gloss over the end part of the final battle. I have a very hard time with the Prince. In particular, I was off to a bad start when the Ultra Golem engaged with Pasha caught sight of me and gated in an Amber Golem. Via Farsight, I saw Pasha switch to fighting the Amber, and his health fell fairly fast. Still, my fighters did very well against the Supreme Golem and his Elemental, and right when they fell the NW Ultra finished off some summons so I could immediately engage him. My Necro was level 34 so I could easily Remove Magic the protections of the Nobles and Horrids, and drop them fast. Pasha unfortunately fell (was scared to check on him and heal with my R/C for fear of making things worse with another Amber gating in), so it was up to me to do most of the damage the third Ultra as well.
Finally got to focus on the prince, I think he used one AI, and then gated his last Noble, and then it was just me vs. him. And frankly, with 5 characters of Thac0 -12 to -16, I had a real tough time damaging him. I think I put way too many HLAs in Hardiness, versus Critical Strike... my ratio was like 12 to 6 or so. In hindsight, should have been more like 5 Hardiness, 13 Critical. His regen rate is insane. I have no idea how other parties (i.e. the journal with 2 Riskbreakers and 4 mages) could deal damage fast enough to get him to use his AIs. He casts Greater Malaison frequently... I rain out of yellow potions of magic shielding quite quickly... and so basically every hit I was getting repulsed away. Only thing I could think of in hindsight was Spell Immunity: Invocation. I assume that would block the effect of his field, so my Kensai/Mage could cast it and my Assassin/Fighter could cast it via scroll. As it was, with that many fighters, I still had to wish rest at least twice, just in this final portion of the battle. Maybe I should have used some level 9 spots for Monster Summoning? I just have no idea; unless they're immune to the field of repulse, I don't see how they'd help. I also assume they'd only be hitting on 19's and 20's. Or maybe missing Pasha was critical there. He's a great fighter and has great resistances, so wouldn't take much babysitting if he got involved.
Anyways, enjoyed it a ton, the last battle was indeed the hardest (for me at least) and I enjoyed the story line of the necro protag quests.
Full Version: Necro Run - thoughts
Hi conqueror
Only comment, Find dual R7-cleric one of the most formidable char for IA V6, multi R/C I consider a waste (only personnal opinion, don't say it should not be picked)
In my opinion also!
May I suggest it has to do with the RL duration of it, thus difficulty to write detailled report of it?
Wherever did you find xp? ... with a party of 6 I barely reach level 32 after EDE when killing everylittle kobold!
Yes it should!
I have an idea , I can tell you why: only because Pasha was alive! 
(however on earth could you let him be killed 
)
Nice job!
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 03:13 PM) 
Had a lot of fun doing this mod with a necromancer PC (much easier than my first run through with a vagrant).
My party was heavily warrior oriented:
Necromancer
Riskbreaker
Riskbreaker
Assassin/Fighter dual
Kensai/Mage dual
Ranger/Cleric multi
Riskbreakers are definitely better in two's, and I suspect even three would have worked well.
The Assassin was dualed once getting the Use Any Item high level ability. (Interestingly, it appears Fighter/Thief multiclasses don't get it in this mod?!). He was my most interesting character by far. Most IA items don't work with UAI, but Cernd's Cloak and the Scarlet Ioun Stone are two exceptions that I enjoyed. UAI follows your dualed fighter, so you are definitely a useful character well before you get your thief levels back. In fact, getting your thief levels back gets you basically nothing (poison weapon, yay) and maybe the +1 to hit and damage from being an assassin. I tried to focus on Physical Resistance items on this character, theorizing that I could get up to 95% once I hit HLAs on the fighter half and could choose Hardiness. But this involved some bad items (Warblade, Master of Disciplines un-upgraded). I much preferred to use the Royal Elemental Staff, which allowed for Tenser's Transformation to give me another 100+ HPs, with no loss in functionality - you can still use scrolls and such while transformed. I was bummed to see how poorly Backstab works in this mod, especially since the marquee thief dagger grants it as an ability. You can basically backstab spiders and vanilla creatures only. The hard foes - all golems, rakshasas, dragons, etc., looked to be immune.
Kensay was dualed at level 15, figuring that the +5 to hit would give it the same Thac0 as a level 20 warrior. The down time was rough, but it largely overlapped with my Assassin being dualed to a fighter, so I was basically a 5-person party up until around 7M experience.
Ranger/Cleric seems to classically be dualed here, and if I remembered that Holy Power spell which would give you fighter Thac0, I might have gone that route. I really just wanted this character to be a competent fighter the whole time, but more than half the time she was out of combat casting healing spells anyways.
My party was heavily warrior oriented:
Necromancer
Riskbreaker
Riskbreaker
Assassin/Fighter dual
Kensai/Mage dual
Ranger/Cleric multi
Riskbreakers are definitely better in two's, and I suspect even three would have worked well.
The Assassin was dualed once getting the Use Any Item high level ability. (Interestingly, it appears Fighter/Thief multiclasses don't get it in this mod?!). He was my most interesting character by far. Most IA items don't work with UAI, but Cernd's Cloak and the Scarlet Ioun Stone are two exceptions that I enjoyed. UAI follows your dualed fighter, so you are definitely a useful character well before you get your thief levels back. In fact, getting your thief levels back gets you basically nothing (poison weapon, yay) and maybe the +1 to hit and damage from being an assassin. I tried to focus on Physical Resistance items on this character, theorizing that I could get up to 95% once I hit HLAs on the fighter half and could choose Hardiness. But this involved some bad items (Warblade, Master of Disciplines un-upgraded). I much preferred to use the Royal Elemental Staff, which allowed for Tenser's Transformation to give me another 100+ HPs, with no loss in functionality - you can still use scrolls and such while transformed. I was bummed to see how poorly Backstab works in this mod, especially since the marquee thief dagger grants it as an ability. You can basically backstab spiders and vanilla creatures only. The hard foes - all golems, rakshasas, dragons, etc., looked to be immune.
Kensay was dualed at level 15, figuring that the +5 to hit would give it the same Thac0 as a level 20 warrior. The down time was rough, but it largely overlapped with my Assassin being dualed to a fighter, so I was basically a 5-person party up until around 7M experience.
Ranger/Cleric seems to classically be dualed here, and if I remembered that Holy Power spell which would give you fighter Thac0, I might have gone that route. I really just wanted this character to be a competent fighter the whole time, but more than half the time she was out of combat casting healing spells anyways.
Only comment, Find dual R7-cleric one of the most formidable char for IA V6, multi R/C I consider a waste (only personnal opinion, don't say it should not be picked)
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 03:13 PM)
Overall, the Necromancer is much easier than the Vagrant PC, with a much better storyline and side quests (in my opinion).
In my opinion also!
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 03:13 PM)
One thing I was surprised about was how journal posters somewhat gloss over the end part of the final battle.
May I suggest it has to do with the RL duration of it, thus difficulty to write detailled report of it?
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 03:13 PM)
My Necro was level 34
Wherever did you find xp? ... with a party of 6 I barely reach level 32 after EDE when killing everylittle kobold!
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 03:13 PM)
In hindsight, should have been more like 5 Hardiness, 13 Critical.
Yes it should!
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 03:13 PM)
I have no idea how other parties (i.e. the journal with 2 Riskbreakers and 4 mages) could deal damage fast enough to get him to use his AIs.
I have an idea
, I can tell you why: only because Pasha was alive! (however on earth could you let him be killed )Nice job!
I say this not to brag, but it was literally my first attempt at the EDE in which Pasha got killed, and things were otherwise going OK, so I figured I'd just roll with it and see how it went. Additionally, in a few run-throughs beforehand, where I was just seeing where the enemies were placed, it seemed like they were more clumped together in the middle with me, which would have been horrific. So in my first real try, they were all spread out, and I did manage to get the two Ultras offscreen and only summoning one Amber before I eliminated the Supreme and a few Noble Rakshasa's. Wasn't sure I'd be able to do that again if I reloaded when Pasha died.
As for experience... for the most part, I was able to let things like Elemental Golems drain themselves of summons. For example, the 4 Elemental Golem party in WK5. My team by then had 5 very good fighters, 4 of which with grandmastery. Additionally, I found 3 battles in which there is an unlimited amount of experience-bearing enemies:
- Azamantes in WK5 - summons 1 grandlord and 1 greater bone golem every few rounds
- Odamaron in Sendai's lair - summons 1 grandlord and 1 bone golem
- Ravager - infinite supply of Bone Blades at 2,500 experience each
I definitely gained one full level worth of experience from Azamantes, and maybe a half level in each of Odamaron and Ravager. Definitely could have gotten more out of Odamaron and Ravager. In fact, if I were to Wish Rest, I think I could have gotten all the way to the level cap. But it seemed unsporting.
Why do you say R7/Cleric is so much better than the multi? Higher level spells, sure, but having an additional fighter with Thac0 -12 without buffs was quite nice. My R/C alternated between the Flail of Ages + Ice Star. She ended up with around 12% of kills and experience. Final tally was something like:
Necro - 5%
Riskbreaker - 23% (Phosphorus/Foebane)
Riskbreaker - 30% (Crom/Truth)
Assassin/Fighter - 12% (Royal Elemental Staff, Staff of the Magi)
Kensai/Mage - 18% (Dragon Breath, Wave, Staff of the Ram)
Ranger/Cleric - 12% (Flail of Ages/Ice Star)
The biggest thing that would have drawn me the way of the dual would be the Holy Power spell; that would have gotten me the Thac0 I wanted, and due to cleric level it would be hard to dispel. But I'd miss the half attack from the Ranger level 13 (becoming full with Improved Haste), as well as the Critical Strikes high level abilities.
As for experience... for the most part, I was able to let things like Elemental Golems drain themselves of summons. For example, the 4 Elemental Golem party in WK5. My team by then had 5 very good fighters, 4 of which with grandmastery. Additionally, I found 3 battles in which there is an unlimited amount of experience-bearing enemies:
- Azamantes in WK5 - summons 1 grandlord and 1 greater bone golem every few rounds
- Odamaron in Sendai's lair - summons 1 grandlord and 1 bone golem
- Ravager - infinite supply of Bone Blades at 2,500 experience each
I definitely gained one full level worth of experience from Azamantes, and maybe a half level in each of Odamaron and Ravager. Definitely could have gotten more out of Odamaron and Ravager. In fact, if I were to Wish Rest, I think I could have gotten all the way to the level cap. But it seemed unsporting.
Why do you say R7/Cleric is so much better than the multi? Higher level spells, sure, but having an additional fighter with Thac0 -12 without buffs was quite nice. My R/C alternated between the Flail of Ages + Ice Star. She ended up with around 12% of kills and experience. Final tally was something like:
Necro - 5%
Riskbreaker - 23% (Phosphorus/Foebane)
Riskbreaker - 30% (Crom/Truth)
Assassin/Fighter - 12% (Royal Elemental Staff, Staff of the Magi)
Kensai/Mage - 18% (Dragon Breath, Wave, Staff of the Ram)
Ranger/Cleric - 12% (Flail of Ages/Ice Star)
The biggest thing that would have drawn me the way of the dual would be the Holy Power spell; that would have gotten me the Thac0 I wanted, and due to cleric level it would be hard to dispel. But I'd miss the half attack from the Ranger level 13 (becoming full with Improved Haste), as well as the Critical Strikes high level abilities.
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 11 2014, 02:26 AM)
I say this not to brag, but it was literally my first attempt at the EDE in which Pasha got killed, and things were otherwise going OK, so I figured I'd just roll with it and see how it went. Additionally, in a few run-throughs beforehand, where I was just seeing where the enemies were placed, it seemed like they were more clumped together in the middle with me, which would have been horrific. So in my first real try, they were all spread out, and I did manage to get the two Ultras offscreen and only summoning one Amber before I eliminated the Supreme and a few Noble Rakshasa's. Wasn't sure I'd be able to do that again if I reloaded when Pasha died.
As for experience... for the most part, I was able to let things like Elemental Golems drain themselves of summons. For example, the 4 Elemental Golem party in WK5. My team by then had 5 very good fighters, 4 of which with grandmastery. Additionally, I found 3 battles in which there is an unlimited amount of experience-bearing enemies:
- Azamantes in WK5 - summons 1 grandlord and 1 greater bone golem every few rounds
- Odamaron in Sendai's lair - summons 1 grandlord and 1 bone golem
- Ravager - infinite supply of Bone Blades at 2,500 experience each
I definitely gained one full level worth of experience from Azamantes, and maybe a half level in each of Odamaron and Ravager. Definitely could have gotten more out of Odamaron and Ravager. In fact, if I were to Wish Rest, I think I could have gotten all the way to the level cap. But it seemed unsporting.
As for experience... for the most part, I was able to let things like Elemental Golems drain themselves of summons. For example, the 4 Elemental Golem party in WK5. My team by then had 5 very good fighters, 4 of which with grandmastery. Additionally, I found 3 battles in which there is an unlimited amount of experience-bearing enemies:
- Azamantes in WK5 - summons 1 grandlord and 1 greater bone golem every few rounds
- Odamaron in Sendai's lair - summons 1 grandlord and 1 bone golem
- Ravager - infinite supply of Bone Blades at 2,500 experience each
I definitely gained one full level worth of experience from Azamantes, and maybe a half level in each of Odamaron and Ravager. Definitely could have gotten more out of Odamaron and Ravager. In fact, if I were to Wish Rest, I think I could have gotten all the way to the level cap. But it seemed unsporting.
naughty boy!
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 11 2014, 02:26 AM)
Why do you say R7/Cleric is so much better than the multi?
to make it short:
- high level priest spells early (one 7th level spell end of chater 3)
- insane AC (plate, rings, belts, DH, prot from evil, aura of flaming death, foreknowledge,....) for a dual-wielder
- level-up fast (multi level-up is so slow in IA), allows to dispel enemies, have buffs (prot from fire, Death ward,....) which enemies cannot dispel mid-late game (grave liches, dragons, demilich,...)
- more spell slots ! (summons, GR, regen, mass heal, buffs,....)
- perfect tank in EDE for Prince with boots of ranger lord/ring of free action while party gets rid of acolyts
thanks to clerical buffs, AC, stoneskin, strength bonuses (DUHM, weapons,...), I never miss hardiness and critical strikes that much...
sidenote: dual Berserker/cleric is good too (with +++++ in flails!)
QUOTE(nicoper @ Jun 11 2014, 06:35 AM)
- high level priest spells early (one 7th level spell end of chater 3)
- insane AC (plate, rings, belts, DH, prot from evil, aura of flaming death, foreknowledge,....) for a dual-wielder
- level-up fast (multi level-up is so slow in IA), allows to dispel enemies, have buffs (prot from fire, Death ward,....) which enemies cannot dispel mid-late game (grave liches, dragons, demilich,...)
- more spell slots ! (summons, GR, regen, mass heal, buffs,....)
- perfect tank in EDE for Prince with boots of ranger lord/ring of free action while party gets rid of acolyts
thanks to clerical buffs, AC, stoneskin, strength bonuses (DUHM, weapons,...), I never miss hardiness and critical strikes that much...
sidenote: dual Berserker/cleric is good too (with +++++ in flails!)
- insane AC (plate, rings, belts, DH, prot from evil, aura of flaming death, foreknowledge,....) for a dual-wielder
- level-up fast (multi level-up is so slow in IA), allows to dispel enemies, have buffs (prot from fire, Death ward,....) which enemies cannot dispel mid-late game (grave liches, dragons, demilich,...)
- more spell slots ! (summons, GR, regen, mass heal, buffs,....)
- perfect tank in EDE for Prince with boots of ranger lord/ring of free action while party gets rid of acolyts
thanks to clerical buffs, AC, stoneskin, strength bonuses (DUHM, weapons,...), I never miss hardiness and critical strikes that much...
sidenote: dual Berserker/cleric is good too (with +++++ in flails!)
For high-level spells quicker, and more spell slots, of course I agree.
For the high spell level (so as not to be dispelled), I never really cared about that. By about halfway through the game, my cleric was really only casting Protection from Evil and Greater Restoration. I guess he would have been more useful if he could cast other stuff without being dispelled, but I didn't mind so much. The AC, the tanking ability, etc., are all there for the R/C multi as well. Certainly if I were to play again, I'd try the dual for variety (though I'd dual after level 9, as I would want the full HPs). And maybe try the Berserker/Cleric as I really like grandmastery... maybe even in Quarterstaff instead.
Couple of logistical things...
1) the Old Ones battle should give you a chance to actually set your contingencies. As it is, you're told "this battle can only be won with smart contingencies", and then you're whisked away to the battle. Would be nice to be able to set them up.
2) hardest battle is tough to call, but may well have been the return to the demon plane. Phase 2 of that battle just wrecked me. I basically insta-died the first 5 times I tried it.
3) two other hard battles, which became very easy when I figured out what to do, were the Dracolich and the first arrival of Pasha. For the Dracolich,
SPOILER!
For the fight with Pasha,
SPOILER!
4) Noble Spider figure was underwhelming for me. Same with The Truth. I think they're a bit overcosted. Along similar lines, I think the thief-based special items are way overcosted too.
5) Phosphorus and Noble Efreet figurine are pretty undercosted. Cat figurine too. Those were perhaps my favorite 3 items in the game.
1) the Old Ones battle should give you a chance to actually set your contingencies. As it is, you're told "this battle can only be won with smart contingencies", and then you're whisked away to the battle. Would be nice to be able to set them up.
2) hardest battle is tough to call, but may well have been the return to the demon plane. Phase 2 of that battle just wrecked me. I basically insta-died the first 5 times I tried it.
3) two other hard battles, which became very easy when I figured out what to do, were the Dracolich and the first arrival of Pasha. For the Dracolich,
SPOILER!
Skeleton Warriors were key.
For the fight with Pasha,
SPOILER!
Physically moving enemies (i.e. Riskbreaker special ability, and/or Comet) was crucial
4) Noble Spider figure was underwhelming for me. Same with The Truth. I think they're a bit overcosted. Along similar lines, I think the thief-based special items are way overcosted too.
5) Phosphorus and Noble Efreet figurine are pretty undercosted. Cat figurine too. Those were perhaps my favorite 3 items in the game.
One fight I'd suggest some changes to is the Twisted Rune fight. Depending on your tactics, the fight is either brutally hard, or pretty easy. The problem is, it's not the enemy AI that make certain tactics unsuccessful, but rather the gross lengths to which the enemy/area scripting cheats in order to get you to approach the battle a certain way.
The way the Greater Twisted Golems spawn (every, 18 seconds, I think), as long as you are not in view of Layene, is just silly. They're grossly overpowered for that portion of the game, which I guess is the point, because their entire purpose is to get you to reload and stay within view of Layene on your next attempt.
Then Layene herself... when I played as a Vagrant, she used her wish for the double-length time stop and improved alacrity, then fired an obscene amount of magic at my PC. That was actually pretty awesome to see, and actually got my heart racing as she left the time stop and I had to figure out how on earth to survive it. But with my Necro PC, she was unkillable until she cast the Wish (lame, again with the cheating), and then just used it for an insta-rest (super lame, not because of cheating but because it was a complete waste and she died a half of a round later).
Even the way the plain Twisted Golems spawn (based on when each char in your party comes into sight of Layene) is pretty counterintuitive and doesn't really make any sense with the way BG generally works. But at least it was a fair enemy that you could approach based on your own tactics and party composition. Nothing was *forced* on you, like those Greater Twisted Golems.
The way the Greater Twisted Golems spawn (every, 18 seconds, I think), as long as you are not in view of Layene, is just silly. They're grossly overpowered for that portion of the game, which I guess is the point, because their entire purpose is to get you to reload and stay within view of Layene on your next attempt.
Then Layene herself... when I played as a Vagrant, she used her wish for the double-length time stop and improved alacrity, then fired an obscene amount of magic at my PC. That was actually pretty awesome to see, and actually got my heart racing as she left the time stop and I had to figure out how on earth to survive it. But with my Necro PC, she was unkillable until she cast the Wish (lame, again with the cheating), and then just used it for an insta-rest (super lame, not because of cheating but because it was a complete waste and she died a half of a round later).
Even the way the plain Twisted Golems spawn (based on when each char in your party comes into sight of Layene) is pretty counterintuitive and doesn't really make any sense with the way BG generally works. But at least it was a fair enemy that you could approach based on your own tactics and party composition. Nothing was *forced* on you, like those Greater Twisted Golems.
Any where in the game you find an enemy unkillable, rest assured that it is not cheating, it's rather an anti cheat (or anti-cheese) device. A player who plays fair and square and doesn't seek questionable methods to kill Layene prematurely won't even notice she is unkillable (as there are many other similar enemies through the game that are unkillable under certain scenarios but you haven't noticed because you have fought them plain and square).
Besides, when this battles starts, all of your characters are in Layene's line of sight by default. If you ended up into a position that Layene didn't see any of your characters, it only means that you ran away and tried to abuse the area structure.
Besides, when this battles starts, all of your characters are in Layene's line of sight by default. If you ended up into a position that Layene didn't see any of your characters, it only means that you ran away and tried to abuse the area structure.
QUOTE(Sikret @ Jun 18 2014, 11:17 AM)
Any where in the game you find an enemy unkillable, rest assured that it is not cheating, it's rather an anti cheat (or anti-cheese) device. A player who plays fair and square and doesn't seek questionable methods to kill Layene prematurely won't even notice she is unkillable (as there are many other similar enemies through the game that are unkillable under certain scenarios but you haven't noticed because you have fought them plain and square).
This is demonstrably false. A number of enemies in this mod are unkillable at various points - the dragons that heal at 20% health, the Prince, etc. Using a MinHP=1 item is not the only way to ensure this, though it does feel like the most cheating. I could look up exactly how each of these was done, but I uninstalled the mod, so I'm going off memory here.
QUOTE(Sikret @ Jun 18 2014, 11:17 AM)
Besides, when this battles starts, all of your characters are in Layene's line of sight by default. If you ended up into a position that Layene didn't see any of your characters, it only means that you ran away and tried to abuse the area structure.
Good to know that the "divide and conquer" strategy used by every player in every game ever (BG and otherwise) is considered "abuse". Next time I play, I will run around in circles to gather up all the enemies and face them all at once, so as to ensure I am not abusing the game architecture.
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 22 2014, 12:29 AM)
This is demonstrably false. A number of enemies in this mod are unkillable at various points - the dragons that heal at 20% health, the Prince, etc. Using a MinHP=1 item is not the only way to ensure this, though it does feel like the most cheating. I could look up exactly how each of these was done, but I uninstalled the mod, so I'm going off memory here.
Let's not confuse many things:
- a dragon (or any other creature) that heals under some circumstancs is the same thing than a party member casting heal (btw not many enemies, just 1 IIRC, uses Greater restaoration...)
- some enemies can't be killed under some circumstances, either for anti-cheat (cf Sikret post) measures, or to allow them to be a bit more relevant enemies. for this second category, it is IMO understandable enemies can do things party cannot to provide a bit of challenge (comes to my mind Tabhita unkillable before beastmaster is dead, Falahar unkillable before GR, Prince unkillable before golems dead,...)
I would say there is few enemies that cannot be (theorically, HP, resist and and buffs have to be taken into acount) killed on the spot.
Two cannot be killed at all for sure:
SPOILER!
ice and ultra golems spawning with dragon abazigail
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 22 2014, 12:29 AM)
Good to know that the "divide and conquer" strategy used by every player in every game ever (BG and otherwise) is considered "abuse". Next time I play, I will run around in circles to gather up all the enemies and face them all at once, so as to ensure I am not abusing the game architecture.
May be I'm wrong, but I think Sikret put measures (on some creatures) only if no party member at al is within sight. Divide and conquer you still may use very often (fortunately
).
QUOTE(nicoper @ Jun 22 2014, 12:47 PM)
Two cannot be killed at all for sure:
SPOILER!
SPOILER!
ice and ultra golems spawning with dragon abazigail
I was wondering about that...that's where I got stuck in my last run and postponed that party.
You'd like the party I'm using nicoper -
Vagrant Protagonist
Fighter/Illusionist multiclass
Cleric/Thief multiclass
Riskbreaker
Keldorn
Haer D'alis
Some fights were really tough but some not as much as I thought. I started a journal (like usual), but quit writing things down as I went after a while (like usual). I might organize it sometime and post some of the more interesting early fights I had.
conqueror - I think I may try your Assassin>Fighter high level dual... that sounds like something I'd really like!
QUOTE(Hideous the Wu Jen @ Jun 26 2014, 06:34 AM)
You'd like the party I'm using nicoper -
Vagrant Protagonist
Fighter/Illusionist multiclass
Cleric/Thief multiclass
Riskbreaker
Keldorn
Haer D'alis
Vagrant Protagonist
Fighter/Illusionist multiclass
Cleric/Thief multiclass
Riskbreaker
Keldorn
Haer D'alis
Yes I do
problem is I wish one day I have ideas like yours when composing party
That said, did not play BG2 for a long time now (some 9-10 months that is) and you give me motivation to start a new run
I may even consider a vagrant protag, but only thinking of drowned soul (I mean spiders with it),.....I think I will not
May be will think (inspired by you and conqueror) about a heavy "late-dualled" party, multi is not my cup of tea
QUOTE(Hideous the Wu Jen @ Jun 26 2014, 06:34 AM)
conqueror - I think I may try your Assassin>Fighter high level dual... that sounds like something I'd really like!
True that conqueror did make an interesting pick there!
one idea less to find if I resume an IA run, thanks conqueror!QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 06:13 PM)
The Assassin was dualed once getting the Use Any Item high level ability. (Interestingly, it appears Fighter/Thief multiclasses don't get it in this mod?!). He was my most interesting character by far. Most IA items don't work with UAI, but Cernd's Cloak and the Scarlet Ioun Stone are two exceptions that I enjoyed. UAI follows your dualed fighter, so you are definitely a useful character well before you get your thief levels back. In fact, getting your thief levels back gets you basically nothing (poison weapon, yay) and maybe the +1 to hit and damage from being an assassin. I tried to focus on Physical Resistance items on this character, theorizing that I could get up to 95% once I hit HLAs on the fighter half and could choose Hardiness. But this involved some bad items (Warblade, Master of Disciplines un-upgraded). I much preferred to use the Royal Elemental Staff, which allowed for Tenser's Transformation to give me another 100+ HPs, with no loss in functionality - you can still use scrolls and such while transformed. I was bummed to see how poorly Backstab works in this mod, especially since the marquee thief dagger grants it as an ability. You can basically backstab spiders and vanilla creatures only. The hard foes - all golems, rakshasas, dragons, etc., looked to be immune.
The main advantages of the A->F are the grand physical resistance, a bit better THAC0 and damage compared to a vanilla fighter and the UAI. Forget about backstab. The Grandfather of Assassins' dagger poison damage is bugged anyways and is far less than in the item description. Royal elemental staff can still be used, but I don't see why you must wield it - even if you wanna use a crushing weapon, better switch to Staff of the Ram +4/+6. Warblade is also weak since against enemies who have the greatest physical damage output, like Greater Bone Golems, Skeleton Grandlords or various Golems - you just want to have a crushing-type weapon equipped instead. BTW in my runs Tenser's transformation didn't give me 100+ hp, but a bit less, don't remember how many exactly, was about 80 or 90. And as I remember correctly, you cannot use special abilities while under Tensers (no Criticals, no Hardiness).
There are other very useful items which the A-F can use with UAI, but those items come from "The Four" mod. Robe of Eloquence grants him permanent Alacrity, the helm gives him +4 to THAC0 and AC and the ring +5 or +6 to THAC0.
BTW I didn't use a F/T multi in this version of the mod, thanx for the info that they don't get UAI.
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 06:13 PM)
Kensay was dualed at level 15, figuring that the +5 to hit would give it the same Thac0 as a level 20 warrior. The down time was rough, but it largely overlapped with my Assassin being dualed to a fighter, so I was basically a 5-person party up until around 7M experience.
Ranger/Cleric seems to classically be dualed here, and if I remembered that Holy Power spell which would give you fighter Thac0, I might have gone that route. I really just wanted this character to be a competent fighter the whole time, but more than half the time she was out of combat casting healing spells anyways.
Ranger/Cleric seems to classically be dualed here, and if I remembered that Holy Power spell which would give you fighter Thac0, I might have gone that route. I really just wanted this character to be a competent fighter the whole time, but more than half the time she was out of combat casting healing spells anyways.
There are various opinions on a RC character - dual or multi. Both are good but require a different playing style. If playing on core difficulty - either is equally viable.
More experienced IA players dual Berserker to a mage because:
Can be dualled at level 9(gets mage levels really fast)
Has 3 Enrages
Can wear robes unlike a K-M in IA v6
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 06:13 PM)
Overall, the Necromancer is much easier than the Vagrant PC, with a much better storyline and side quests (in my opinion). Being un-silenceable against some big dragons is hugely important, and many castings of Recast Vital Energy help warriors stay in fights and dish out damage fast.
It definitely is, because of the cheesy Recast Vital Energy spell which lacks proper description (if you only read the Readme, you may have the wrong opinion that the Vagrant PC is easiest of all playthroughs). And yeah, immunity to Silence helps too.
QUOTE(conqueror @ Jun 10 2014, 06:13 PM)
One thing I was surprised about was how journal posters somewhat gloss over the end part of the final battle. I have a very hard time with the Prince. In particular, I was off to a bad start when the Ultra Golem engaged with Pasha caught sight of me and gated in an Amber Golem. Via Farsight, I saw Pasha switch to fighting the Amber, and his health fell fairly fast. Still, my fighters did very well against the Supreme Golem and his Elemental, and right when they fell the NW Ultra finished off some summons so I could immediately engage him. My Necro was level 34 so I could easily Remove Magic the protections of the Nobles and Horrids, and drop them fast. Pasha unfortunately fell (was scared to check on him and heal with my R/C for fear of making things worse with another Amber gating in), so it was up to me to do most of the damage the third Ultra as well.
Finally got to focus on the prince, I think he used one AI, and then gated his last Noble, and then it was just me vs. him. And frankly, with 5 characters of Thac0 -12 to -16, I had a real tough time damaging him. I think I put way too many HLAs in Hardiness, versus Critical Strike... my ratio was like 12 to 6 or so. In hindsight, should have been more like 5 Hardiness, 13 Critical. His regen rate is insane. I have no idea how other parties (i.e. the journal with 2 Riskbreakers and 4 mages) could deal damage fast enough to get him to use his AIs. He casts Greater Malaison frequently... I rain out of yellow potions of magic shielding quite quickly... and so basically every hit I was getting repulsed away. Only thing I could think of in hindsight was Spell Immunity: Invocation. I assume that would block the effect of his field, so my Kensai/Mage could cast it and my Assassin/Fighter could cast it via scroll. As it was, with that many fighters, I still had to wish rest at least twice, just in this final portion of the battle. Maybe I should have used some level 9 spots for Monster Summoning? I just have no idea; unless they're immune to the field of repulse, I don't see how they'd help. I also assume they'd only be hitting on 19's and 20's. Or maybe missing Pasha was critical there. He's a great fighter and has great resistances, so wouldn't take much babysitting if he got involved.
Anyways, enjoyed it a ton, the last battle was indeed the hardest (for me at least) and I enjoyed the story line of the necro protag quests.
Finally got to focus on the prince, I think he used one AI, and then gated his last Noble, and then it was just me vs. him. And frankly, with 5 characters of Thac0 -12 to -16, I had a real tough time damaging him. I think I put way too many HLAs in Hardiness, versus Critical Strike... my ratio was like 12 to 6 or so. In hindsight, should have been more like 5 Hardiness, 13 Critical. His regen rate is insane. I have no idea how other parties (i.e. the journal with 2 Riskbreakers and 4 mages) could deal damage fast enough to get him to use his AIs. He casts Greater Malaison frequently... I rain out of yellow potions of magic shielding quite quickly... and so basically every hit I was getting repulsed away. Only thing I could think of in hindsight was Spell Immunity: Invocation. I assume that would block the effect of his field, so my Kensai/Mage could cast it and my Assassin/Fighter could cast it via scroll. As it was, with that many fighters, I still had to wish rest at least twice, just in this final portion of the battle. Maybe I should have used some level 9 spots for Monster Summoning? I just have no idea; unless they're immune to the field of repulse, I don't see how they'd help. I also assume they'd only be hitting on 19's and 20's. Or maybe missing Pasha was critical there. He's a great fighter and has great resistances, so wouldn't take much babysitting if he got involved.
Anyways, enjoyed it a ton, the last battle was indeed the hardest (for me at least) and I enjoyed the story line of the necro protag quests.
The usual HLA distribution for all warrior types is approximately 2 Criticals for each 1 Hardiness picked. Final HLA count for each warrior at level 40 should be 13 Critical - 7 Hardiness. Smite is more or less useless, you won't even be able to use it as an additional Critical strike most of the time due to the knockback effect.
I don't think that Pasha is immune to Maze, you could just Maze him while dealing with all the minor golems. And yeah, it's better to leave him 1/1 with an Ultra golem. In this battle the enemies cheat in another way - you can never get your lowered Electrical resistance back to normal barring rest (not magical rest but usual one).
Having not 1, but 2 Riskbreakers in this fight is what counts, due to their natural pool hits at level 15 (especially Risk Increment and Hard Hit) and their chance to score natural Critical Strikes on a 1/5 chance rather than 1/10 or 1/20 compared to other fighter types. The Risk Decrement damage should not be underestimated as well, especially if combined with Wish/Rest. Basically, you don't even need any more fighters - you could have 4 mages which shower the enemy with Energy Blades and you'll still inflict enough damage. Although having a spider-transformed mage with a good polearm instead will probably inflict far more damage.
The potions of Magic shielding are not the only thing that can protect vs Greater Malison. For example, the A-F's other strong side is being able to become a 100% MR tank with certain items - use that for his protection when you see a Malison flying towards you. Also, if you implement the "divide and conquer" tactic before each enemy dangerous cast (and it's not hard to guess the Prince's casts, he always casts one and the same spells in orderly fasion), you can just make your fighters run away for a second avoiding a dangerous Greater Malison, Lower Fire Resistsance, Dragon Breath or Remove Magic and then reassemble and continue the barrage. 1, probably even 2 fighters will be affected, but not all. All of these spells are targeted on a certain party member so it's not that hard to send the rest away from him.
Another tricky part of Greater malison - if you drink a potion of Magic Shielding BEFORE malison hits, malison is completely stopped. If you drink it after the malison lands, the effects of the Malison (+4 to saves) stay active after the potion's effect is Dispelled/Removed.
Don't worry about Pasha, he's often Repulsed, little chance of helping him with that even if you waste time casting on him spells that decrease his saves like Aid.
I didn't know SI:Evocation works vs the Shield of Repulse
heh, good info, but now this will be blocked in v7.There is a video of mine on YouTube showing the exact way to guess and avoid enemy's dangerous spells and the right way of drinking Magic shielding potions. Certain summons can be very useful against the Prince, but don't expect too much from them, even from the most powerful Gated summons like Greater Swanmays, Smilodons or Skeleton Lord. Usually with a Necro PC I use Salamander Nobles under Farsight for distraction, which allows me to regroup and recast vital buffs while waiting out an enemy Absolute Immunity to wane or waiting for an Universal Purge.
If you need to decrease THAC0, I'd suggest investing in all 4 Potions of Power early on - those are great for dualclassers, especially for a Berserker(or even Kensai)-Mage. Bless and Chant are two other good choices which I always cast after an Universal Purge. Cernd can help with Blesses even if you don't have him in your party - he is the only character that can be Mind Flayer Circlet charmed after the EDE begins. He can even summon a couple of Anacondas and a lot of Shambling Mounds for distraction/additional damage. Foreknowledge is also an important R-C and B-M (or even mage) buff, because it cannot be dispelled by Universal Purge and thus can even be used as a prebuff before each Purge along with Giant Strength.
BTW if you invest time to train Cernd in those infinite-xp exploits in ToB, he can even become a very powerful 7th party member with numerous spells/HLAs for the last battle. He cannot benefit from Rest though, but the MindFlayer circlet's effect cannot be negated by Remove or Purge magic.
A lot of Wishes indeed help in the last portion of the battle, combined with all your Criticals, simply because it's not that hard to quickly get the Prince to Injured (for the first two Absolute Immunities) or even Badly Injured (for the second two), but getting him to Near-Death thrice is what is very difficult, and you certainly need fast ways to get PfME and IH on all your fighters (there are three Wish-options for those) and after that each hit must score (meaning Criticals). BTW you could increase your A-F's melee effectiveness even further bu reading a Polymorph Self scroll and turning into a spider before an universal purge - thus having 10 instead of 7 APR with a polearm.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.