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The Black Wyrm's Lair - Forums > Released mods - Baldur's Gate II > Improved Anvil
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Vuki
I started a new party because I was a little bit tired and bored with the previous one. My previous party was a usual IA party: sorcerer protagonist + barbarian + blade + ranger->cleric (dual) + cleric/mage (multi) + monk. I will surely continue my old game later on but at the moment I concentrate on the new party. Ok, so this is the new party composation (and their current statistics):

Protagonist: Lothar, a half-elf Vagrant: Chaotic Good; lvl 9th; Axe++, Flail++, Club++, two-weapon style+++
Barbie, the half-ork barbarian (he is a male! biggrin.gif ): Chaotic Good; lvl 9th; 2H Sword++, Spear+, Quater Staff++, 2H weapon style++
Ince, the Inquisitor: Lawful Good; lvl 9th; 2H Sword++, Halberd++, Quater Staff+, 2H weapon style++
Rancle, the Ranger->Cleric (dual class): Neutral Good; lvl 7/9th; War Hammer++, Club++, Flail++, Mace++, Quater Staff+, two-weapon style+++
Berti, the Berserker->Thief (dual): Chaotic Neutral; lvl 9/10th; Long Sword++, Scimitar+, Short Sword+, Dagger+, Club++, Dart+, two-weapon style+++
Cernd, the Auramaster: True Neutral; lvl 11th; Scimitar+, Dagger+, Quater Staff+, Sling+

Yes, there is no arcane caster at all! And there will be no arcane caster in the future as well. I will replace sometimes Cernd with other NPCs to trigger their quest but not arcane caster NPC. That was my intention from the beginning and it is a concept and not an accident. smile.gif

I think in a lot of cases it will make my life harder but some battles will be easier. Also I do not have to prebuff as much because I am not able to do as much prebuff as with an arcane caster. smile.gif Life is good. biggrin.gif

I will write here my experience with this party as I advance in the game. I will update my second post here (so, not this one). I will write it from the viewpoint of Lothar. Btw, I have no idea how I was able to find such a name. Lothar. In the other cases I think the naming logic is clear. biggrin.gif

Ps. Sorry for my not so good English! I hope it would be still enjoyable.

Update:
Part 1 is finished
Part 2 is finished
Part 3 is finished
Part 4 is partially entered
Vuki
Adventures of Lothar


Part 1

I am Lothar a honest and pride vagrant. I am a Child of Bhaal and it made my past interesting to say the least. I had some adventures in the past with my friends but now somthing really dangerous and mystical happened and I decided to write a diary.

I was waked up by Imoen in my cell. I had no idea how I got there; I just remember that I was tortured by a wizard. I hate them really. I found my comrades close to my cell and I freed them. Rancle was so shocked that she was converted and she devoted her life to Lathander. I was a bit suprised but we can leave with it. We finally managed to escape from his dungeon luckily (maybe thanks to Lathander however I doubt it). We arrived to the Promenade and saw a conversation between Imoen and the wizard who kept us in his dungeon. Before we can attack him crowled wizards arrived and both the wizard and Imoen were taken away.

When we left the Promenade we had got an offer from Gaelan. 20.000 golds sounded a bit too much for me. We hanged around in Athkatla and we have got several offers. It seems that there is a need for our weapons! We went to Trademeet where we met with a honest druid called Cernd who joint to our team. He is really a good guy and I am proud that he is with us. We went to a nearby forest where we realized that dark druids take over the controll in the Druid Grove. We fighted some of them until we reached the Grove and I challenged Faldorn the leader. I had to put down all of my weapons and equipments and I was able to keep only my clothes. I was still able to defeat Faldorn!

SPOILER!
It was really a tough fight. My vagrant was only on level 8 and I had reload this fight several times. He had no skill to use staffs, so he was not able to use really efficienlty the only weapon you can find in the fighting place. He had the following options to use:
- 4 Charm animal spells (ranger ability)
- 1 Armor of Faith spell (clerical spell)
- 1 Cure Lights Wound, 2 Draw upon Holy Might, 1 Larloch's Minor Drain and 2 Slow Poison (useless in this fight)

At the begining of the battle Lothar casted an Armor of Faith (last for 15 rounds) and pick up a staff. Druid casted a stoneskind. I was able to interrupt his next spell with LMD. Then he summoned 2 black bears (or grizzlys?) and I charmed one of them and together we easily beated the other bear. Then we concentrate on the druid and he strangily did not summoned more bear, so we were able to remove his stoneskin. He renew it but we beat it again and we finally managed to kill him.


After winning this battle I immediately challenged for the leadership of the Grove and I was able to easily win this battle. (Remark: there is a small bug here. I challenged the leadership immediatley and I was suprised that the charmed bear was still there. I think it should be removed from there.) Together I and Cernd can lead this Grove and we can make it a good place for those who dedicated their life to serve the Nature! I got my first task soon from the Spirit of Nature: I had to kill a troll shaman who danger the balance. We got a club that is really good against such monsters and with the help of it we could easily killed him. The spirit was satisfied and I am now really sure that we can drive this Grove!

Then we went back to TradeMeet and we were asked to send the genies away from the city. They come to kill a rakshasha and I promised to them that we take care of it. We heard rumors that it is hidden near to the Druid Grove and we went back there. We realized that we met with him (her?) before, (s)he was the old lady who tried to sell potions to us. We easily killed him/her and his/her two minions. When we reported it back to the genies they left immediately. And we were celebrated as the Heroes of Trademeet and we really deserved it! Then we were asked to help for two nobles family but I do not care about politics, so we did not care about it!

Here I have to make a personal comment. My comrade Berti is not a bad one; the only problem with her is that she is really crazy. When she jumpes to fight she foes it likes a crazy bear and anyway his reactions to every moment of life is very harsh. One day she told me that she does not want to be such a crazy anymore and I was very happy. I thought it is a change in her attitude but then she told me that she wanted to become an expert in thieving. Oh, no! That was not what I wanted to hear! Our discussion was a bit harsh but we finally make a deal: she controlls her attitude and in that case I accept her choice.

We went back to Athkatla and when we entered the city we got an offer from another source. Then very soon we were asked to speak with Gaelan and I decided to do it. But before it we went to the Promenade and helped a little boy to find his mother who was lost in the circus. The circus was full with illusions inside but we found the mage and killed him (again a mage! - there is a good reason I hate them). Then we decided to go to Gaelan but when we went throught a bridge in our way to the Slums, we were asked by a nice officer to take care of killings in this area. This guy (called Aegisfield) was a decent guy but not a clever one: we asked only several questions to somke local peoples and we easily realized that the skinner is behind it. We confronted with him and we killed his people however he was able to escape. Then we went really to Gaelan and we had got a new offer: he lowered the price to "only" 15k golds and I accepted it. I used to heard that competition can lower prices and now I have got an evidence. We accepted his offer because I do not like the attitude of the other side and anyway I do not like graveyards too much. Gaelan directed us to Aran Linvail, the head of thieves here in Athkatla. We went to the thief headquater and Aran told us that he needs the help of us. I do not like it but I finally agree to do it.

End of Part 1

Part 2

We got an amulet and a strong protection ring from Aran. Hmm, maybe he is not so bad and ugly but a good guy? We have got our first task from Aran to meet with Mook and help her to protect a shipping. We went to the Temple District to allow Rancle to prey for her God and we saw their some fanatic who tried to convience people to join a new cult. Then a priest of Lathander asked us to help destroy this cult and we agreed to do it. Later. First we went to the country side to breath some fresh air. We saw a strange tower and we met there some paladins. They asked to destroy the demon inside the building. We entered to the tower and killed some monster there but we leave a little bit later because it seems to be really a tough place. We bought here a potion case from a nice lady.

We went back to the city and helped Mook. She died there but we were able to kill the attacker who was a vampire. Our next task was to find out where the vampire land is. We met with Renal who also has a high level position in the Shadow Thieves and we agree to find out what is happening in one of their guild house. We met with Maevar and we got several tasks from him and his follower Edwin (our old "friend" from the past). One of the task was interesting: he ordered us to kill a mage called Rayic Gethras. I was not against it, so we went to his house. We easily killed his minion and entered his room. The battle against this evil mage was started and he casted some protection spell on him. Our nice magical weapons were ineffective and then I had the idea and shouted: "Comrades! Beat him with weak normal weapons or if you do not have then use your arms!". That made miracle and he felt within seconds. Immediately after this battle we bought some normal weapons to be prepared for the next evil wizard. We did all of the quests and we were able to collect the proof of Maver's treachery. We were asked by Renal to clean out the headquater and we did it. Finally we were offered to lead this guild and Berti convienced me to accept it. So, we have a guild now! My life become stranger than I've ever imagined.

We found out that in the Copper Coronet in the back rooms they organize fights. We had got permission to enter to this area and we spoke with Hendak and we promised to save them. I hate slavery! So, we went and attack the Beastmaster who summoned his animals! It is not the best idea against two rangers and a druid. smile.gif We concentrate on him first and kill him easily. Then we killed his pet and finally we killed his poor animals. They were very agressive because they were imprisoned. I and Rancle charmed two bears and they helped us in this battle.

In the meantime we did some small tasks (for example we helped Montaron, we investigate the fallen paladins, we had some adventure in the Graveyard and so on...) but I do not want to describe them here. One of this small event was that we were asked to rescue a bard from an evil wizard! Hah, this is a quest for me! So, we went to the Temple District and we climbed down to the sewer. Here we met with Keldorn and have a nice discussion with him about the evil creatures and the direction where the world is moving forward. We agreed that the world world was a better place used to when we were young. Then we went to a library where we met with the wizard. Here we found out that the bard entered to his library to steal a gem. We did not kill this wizard but we went back to the sewer to find an imp. The imp was also a wizard and we managed to kill him! He summoned some creature to help him (Skeleton Warriors, Mordenkainen's Swords) but we destroyed them easily. We used to bought Vhailor's Helm and using it Berti was able to cast Death Spell that killed those summons! We were really tired after this battle, so we went back to the city and spent a nice evening in the Copper Coronet!

Update:
SPOILER!
I forgot to mention that the Vhailor's Helm was a great help in the battle with Pai'na. In that battle he summoned a lot of small spiders. Berti used the helm and all this small spiders were dead immediately. We then concentrated on the big spiders (spirit and and killer spiders). Ince noticed also that these big and very powerfull spiders are evil (unlike the smaller spiders including sword and giant) and therefore Protection from evil and Holy Smite are very effective against them!


We did the second quest of Aran and it was much harder than the first one. The contact was really tough and he was helped by vampire bride. Hmm, I am really not interested to know his sexual life. We found out that the opponent guild headquater is in the Graveyard. We reported it back to Aran he asked us to clear out this nest. We prepared some stakes and rememorize spells and we went to the graveyard. We have met only one strong opponent: Tanova, a mage vampire. She was really tough but all the others were weaklings. Aran told us that we can sail to Spellhold now but I would like to postpone it a bit to have more weapons in our inventory. We went to Umar Hills to find out what is killing the people there and we realized it is the Shade Lord. He seems to be very strong, so we postponed his destiny a bit.

We made a journey to Windspear Hills where we killed accidentally some disguised paladins. Oopps. We were helped by Garren the true lord of Windspear Hills but suddenly his daughter was kidnapped by Firkraag. We went after the kidnappers and enter to Firkraag's lair. Here we meet several mosnters we have never seen before. Strange and very powerfull golems (like coin golems), elementals and lot of undeads. We finally met with Tazok who was a really good fighters - at least until his death.

SPOILER!
Cernd and Rancle cooked up a good weapon against fighter-type creatures. Cernd casted a Doom against him and it reduced his fighting abilities (THAC0 and maybe damage but I am not sure about it)! It could make a big difference in the fight. Cernd also used the spell Magic Resistance against him and it set his resistance to a new level which was hopefully lower then his actual resistance (Cernd was level 12, so it sets resistance of Tazok to 24% no matter how high it was before). After it he was able to affect him by spells.

We learnt also that against coins golems we need at least +3 enhancement weapon, so we have to buy some of them for later usage!


We found here the daughter of Garren but we were not able to free her. The key is with a mage but we feared that we are not able to kill him, so we left. I think the girl is not in a great danger because Firkraag is hunting for us and he needs this girl as a bait. I promise we would comeback soon!

End of Part 2

Part 3

We headed to D'Arnise Hold to help Nalia. We killed there a lot of bad guys (trolls and Yuan-tis). We also met golems and some spiders in a room where we found nice treasures. The golems were easy but the spiders were really tough opponents. Then we opened the gate to enter the guards to the castle and a spider and a yuan-ti mage ambushed us. This fight was a real challenge but we survived somehow.

SPOILER!
We used a tricky tactics against the mage. Only one of our fighters attacked him when he was invulnerable, others spread on the field to make it hard to damage them. His area affecting spells usually affected only one of us and it did not too much damage. After a long fight he gave up and died. Unfortunately Berti, our crazy lady felt during that battle. Fortunately Rancle have high fate in Lathander and she was able to raise dead and therefore Berti is again with us


We left the castle because we were afraid of the later coming enemies. But we first forged a really good flail and I gave it to Rancle because she brought Berti back from death! I am a very good leader, I think it is very clear for everybody. After this fight we went to Cromwell and this well-know weaponsmith made a very good weapon for us, the so called Treefolk's Arm. It was very expensive but it is the best weapon I have ever seen, so it definitely worth the cost. I will use it because I deserve it.

I decided that we are powerful enough to rescue the the children from the slaves and we headed to the sewer. Here we solved the mistery and we got a really powerful but a bit crazy two-handed sword, the Lilarcor. It was given to Barbie.

SPOILER!
We met there some powerful rats but they did not cause problem for us. The Shade Lover was really a challenge until I realized that my Frostreaver Axe made serious damage for this undead while my more powerful Treefolk's Arm did not. Then I shouted that "Use your slashing weapons against him!" and he died really soon.


Before we entered the slave docks we prepared very carefully for the fight. Cernd memorize a lot of Emotions and Rancle memorized some Holy Smites. Cernd did not forgot about the Doom which is one of the best spell against strong fighters. When we entered the ship they immediately jumped on us.

SPOILER!
It was very important to take care of two things first:
- weak enemies
- priest of Cyric
Cernd took care of the first group with the help of his emotion spells and our fighters and Rancle tried to take care of the priest. Rancle casted some Holy Smites and it damaged the priest and killed some slaves. Most of the fighters were not able to reach the priest because there were a lot of assassins and slave guards but Barbie (our powerful barbarian) could attack him and it was enough: he died soon. Then a wizard appeared and of course it was I who attacked him. My new weapon and Frostreaver made really wonders here, the mage's stoneskin was not enough against this mighty weapons and I broke his spellcasting most of the times.

During my fight with the mage others took care of their leader, Captain Haegan! Cernd used Doom against him to make him weaker and others started to beat him. Cernd used his damaging spells because the captain had no resistance to magic and he had also no resistance to magical damage. Flame arrows and similar spells did huge damage to the captain.


Finally the captain and the wizard died and we killed also all the weaklings. Berti collected the loots and he found a key on Haegan's corpse. It opened the doors and we managed to free all the slaves. During that we were suprised time to time by assassins but we killed all of them easily. We met finally some other monsters but they were not a challenge. We went back to Hendak to report our success and we all were very happy. We celebrated it and we spent a nice evening in the Copper Coronet.

It was time to clear the D'Arnise Hold, so we went there and climbed down to the basement. We carefully prepared for the final battle against their leader. Everybody except Cernd drunk haste potion and Cernd and Rancle casted buff spells. Then we entered to the final room where we expected to meet with the main evil monster. He was there and after a short discussion the fight started.

SPOILER!
He summoned a Gem Golem but we did not care about his army, we just attacked Tor'Gal. A little bit later he died without casting his feared and famous Storm of Vengeance spell. After it we killed the golem and the two giant trolls easily (ok, to be honest the golem was not so easy).


Nalia's father was dead and Nalia offered us the possibility to rule this land. We of course accepted the responsibility! We went to check the druid grove. The spirit appeared and asked us to help a small child. We went to Trademeet and we spoke with the child. He is possessed by a monster called Chaos and we force it to leave the boy.

SPOILER!
The fight was easy because Cernd remember to an old book which he read long time ago. The nature of Chaos was described there and it was said that it is vulnerable to the power of native forces. Cernd and Rancle memorize a lot of Call Lightning spells and they used them during the battle. Chaos casted immediately a Creeping Doom on Rancle, so she was not able to cast spells but she has a solution to this problem: she used the Staff of Thunder and Lightning and casted Call Lightning using this staff. Those who meet such a monster in the future should also beware of the madness the chaos emits.


Chaos died soon and the Spirit of the Grove appeared and took away the child. We went back to Athkatla and we are thinking now about our next action. Are we strong enough to confront Firkraag or at least the mage who is with him? Should we go to help the bards escape from the Planar Prison? Or should we go to solve the secret of the Planar Sphere? I did not make the decision yet, we first spend some time in Athkatla and drink some beers!

End of Part 3

Part 4

I decided that we are strong enough to free the child from Firkraag, so we headed to Windspear Hills. We went to the final room (to where we did not enter last time) and here we had a nice discussion with Firkraag (who is a Red Dragon - wow!). We prepared for the battle against Cornster, then we went back to the prison and the hardest and most heroic battle in my life has started!

SPOILER!
Timing was very important in this battle! We had two groups of enemies: Cornster itself and the summoned Skeleton Lords and we had to take care both somehow. We casted all the spells that make us better fighters (bless, chant, draw upon holy might) and we casted also spells that defend us (protection from evil 10' radius, armor of faith, stoneskin, ...). We casted also some protection spells against enemy magic. We all drunk potion of haste (except Cernd).

When we entered I rushed to the mage and started to beat him and Cernd followed me. Others prepared for the summons. Skeleton Lords appeared and Cornster casted Absoluty Immunity from scroll, so I was not able to harm him any more and I went back to take care of the skeletons. The first two summons died pretty soon but then two others appeared! We fighted against them and during that Cernd tried to disturb Conster. He had absolutely no usable magic against Conster (Conster had very good protection), so he throw darts to the mage. Conster concentrated on Cernd, so this strategy worked wonderfully. When we beated the other two Lords then suddenly another two were summoned! Oh nooo, will there be an end of this!? Conster concentrated a bit on us and breached the protection on Rancle. Cernd shouted to me that Absolute Immunity was ended, so I rushed back to the mage and started to hit him. He casted the immunity again and I ran back to help my comrades. Rancle casted ironskin and she rushed back to the battle.

I should mention here the strategy we used against the Skeleton Lords. We splited the 5 fighting people into two groups, one group contained always 4 people and this group fought against one skeleton, and the last comrade took care the other skeleton. This comrade had some protaction against the weapon of the skeleton: either ironskin (if Rancle did this task) or mirror image (Barbie was able to cast it using one of his mighty weapon). With that tactics we were able to kill one of the Skeleton Lord really soon (and during that nobody was attacked from behind) and then we can all concentrate on the other skeleton. We used some potion of resurgance because it cured us continously and we did not have to spend the valuable time on healing potion drinking during the battle.

Conster concentrated his power again on Cernd. While we were fighting against the 4th wave of Skelton Lords (yes, Conster summoned again two of them!) he finally managed to stun him. We killed the last two undead and Rancle removed the stun from Cernd by using his Remove Paralysis spell. Conster casted again Absolute Immunity, so we spread in the room to not allow him to damage all of us with one area spell. Rancle and I stayed near the place where we killed the skeletons and she cured all of my wounds. Rancle ran to the mage and started to hit him to notice when the immunity disappeared. Conster casted a Power Word Kill spell on Cernd and our brave comrade died! At that moment his protection finally vanished and Rancle shouted that "Kill him now! For Cernd!" and we all ran to Conster and started to beat him. In moments he died and we saw that his last contingency spell triggered but it vanished in the air because the caster was already dead. I do not want to know what it was.


Conster was dead and we rested and raised Cernd and we rescued the girl from the prison. We went to the cabin of Garren and he promised to help us with the Paladins. So, we went to the Radiant Heart and to our suprise we were requested to became member of the Heart! Ince, our Inquisitor was very proud, just like all of us (only Berti was a bit dubious and I understand him)! We got some tasks from them and we finished all these tasks easily. Finally we got the quest to kill Firkraag and we all eager to do it even if it is the most dangerous task we have ever got.

We decided to celebrate our success and we spent a nice night in Athkatla. We went to Copper Coronet where we drunk with Hendak and Bernard and then we went out somewhere but to be honest I do not remember this part of the night. The next day we changed our mind because it did not seem to be the best idea to go to fight against Firkraag. So, we went to the Shadow Temple to kill some evils. And there we killed our first Lich! I especially hate liches: they are evil undead wizards! It is a double pleasure to kill them! We entered the Temple and we had to fight almost immediately. There were two Skeleton Lords but the problem was the Shadow Jailor. He was a high level pries until he died which happened really soon. We moved forward and then we met the lich.

SPOILER!
His minion died easily (one Skeleton Lord, 3 Greater Mummies and one Bone Golem). Against the Lich we used our spread out tactics. He wasted his area affecting spells (remove magic, mallison+slow+emotion combo, call lighnting, Horrid Wiltings) usually on one character. He was so stupid that he wasted his remove magic(s) on Berti and there were only a Resist Fire/Cold and a Remove Fear spells that were dispellable (his Berserker Rage is not dispellable) from him. He was not a genius to be honest. We had to wait a bit because he had some protection from magical weapon spells. I realized something interesting. I knew that higher level undeads are immune to non-magical weapons, so we cannot harm him when he casted his protection against magical weapons but I think it is still possible to remove his stoneskins if we hit him by non-magical weapons. I am not sure about it at the moment and we will examine it later. We were very careful when we finally started to damage him because mages have some tricky triggers that fire when they are damaged and usually it is very painful. So, only two of us hit him when we expected his final attack but still Berti died from his last spell. The lich survived only by seconds but unfortunately for him he was not raised from death. That is why you need friends!


We went to the next room where we met Amauna who gave us some items to help our quest. One will protect against the Shadow Dragon. A dragon? That sounds like a good practice for Firkraag! We moved forward but I smelled the rotten body of undeads, so we stop to rest a bit. I will tell the fight against the next undead army tomorrow!

To be continued...
Kerkes
I do have one question - who will cast breach, ruby ray until cernd hits level 14 and, later on, who will cast spellstrike?
I don't know which battles will be easier. IMO, none. anyway, good luck!
Raven
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 19 2008, 09:16 PM) *
I think in a lot of cases it will make my life harder but some battles will be easier.


Have fun waiting out all those PfMW...

QUOTE
Also I do not have to prebuff as much because I am not able to do as much prebuff as with an arcane caster. smile.gif Life is good. biggrin.gif


Hmm...
Vuki
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 19 2008, 11:01 PM) *
I do have one question - who will cast breach, ruby ray until cernd hits level 14 and, later on, who will cast spellstrike?
I don't know which battles will be easier. IMO, none. anyway, good luck!

I spoke with Shadan and he told to me that for example EDE will be easier because melee power is very important in EDE and I have more than other "normal" parties. I have no idea about it because I have no experience with EDE but I hope the best. smile.gif
Sikret
He has an inquisitor to compensate lack of Breach (though it will take some time for the inquisitor to reach high levels and be able to cast powerful dispel magics; at early stages of the game, he will mostly dispel the party's own protections). Lack of Ruby Ray is also important specially because it will take a relatively long time for Cernd to hit level 14 (and if Vuki replaces Cernd with other NPCs frequently, it will take even longer).

Lack of Improved Haste, PFME and other arcane spells are of course worrying and will make the game more challenging for the player.

Let us know how it will go on, Vuki! It looks interesting at least at the first glance.
Vuki
QUOTE(Raven @ Aug 19 2008, 11:18 PM) *
Have fun waiting out all those PfMW...

If a mage is not protected against normal weapons (see the second part of my report when it is available) then there is no problem. When a mage is protected against them then it is really a problem. But most of this cases the enemy will be immune to breach as well (for example liches, rakshashas), so even breach does not make any difference. I see one case when it makes really a difference: I will not be able to remove hardiness from enemy fighters.

BTW, Wand of Spell Striking is your friend if you have no mage in your party but you have a thief. Then you have Breach and Pierce Magic whenever you want. smile.gif
Vuki
QUOTE(Sikret @ Aug 19 2008, 11:38 PM) *
He has an inquisitor to compensate lack of Breach (though it will take some time for the inquisitor to reach high levels and be able to cast powerful dispel magics; at early stages of the game, he will mostly dispel the party's own protections).

Yes, that is the reason I have the inquisitor. Btw Sikret, does Remove Fear protects against "Turn"?

QUOTE
Lack of Ruby Ray is also important specially because it will take a relatively long time for Cernd to hit level 14 (and if Vuki replaces Cernd with other NPCs frequently, it will take even longer).
I will not replace him to much times and mainly I will do it in Chapter 6.

QUOTE
Lack of Improved Haste, PFME and other arcane spells are of course worrying and will make the game more challenging for the player.

Two of my characters will be improved hasted permanently at later stages. Three others will use Greater Whirlwind. PFME and some other protections are however still a problem.

QUOTE
Let us know how it will go on, Vuki! It looks interesting at least at the first glance.

Thanks. Until that point (very early in the game) it is very easy. Problems will come later - I am sure.
Sikret
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 20 2008, 12:53 AM) *
After winning this battle I immediately challenged for the leadership of the Grove and I was able to easily win this battle. (Remark: there is a small bug here. I challenged the leadership immediatley and I was suprised that the charmed bear was still there. I think it should be removed from there.)


As you can read in the "Progress Report for IA v6", the second duel is improved and it won't be offered to a protagonist who doesn't have the xp equal to the xp of a 14th level druid.

QUOTE
Then we decided to go to Gaelan but when we went throught a bridge in our way to the Slums, we were asked by a nice officer to take care of killings in this area. This guy (called Aegisfield) was a decent guy but not a clever one: we asked only several questions to somke local peoples and we easily realized that the skinner is behind it.
Didn't the suna-seni encounter trigger on your way to bridge distirct?!

QUOTE

Yes, that is the reason I have the inquisitor. Btw Sikret, does Remove Fear protects against "Turn"?


No, it won't protect the paladin against turning. The "Turn Paladin" ability is tweaked to dispel all dispellable protections from the targeted paladin; so, it will dispel 'remove fear". However, in IA v5, enemy clerics will only try to turn a protagonist paladin or Keldorn; they won't try to turn a custom paladin. This is intentional in v5 for a paricular reason I had in mind when I was designing this feature in IA v5. However, in IA v6, this is changed and they will turn all paladins even those made in multi-player mode.

So, if you *want* to see the "turn paladin" thing in your game, you can replace your custom inquisitor with Keldorn.

QUOTE

Two of my characters will be improved hasted permanently at later stages
Those items can't be forged till very late in the game. just have a look at the ingredients you need to forge them and you will see the point. Lack of improved haste which I mentioned will be a problem for the majority of the game.

QUOTE

Thanks. Until that point (very early in the game) it is very easy. Problems will come later - I am sure.


Yeah, I wish you good luck. And remember that you are not under an oath to play the game in this way. If you find it too hard you can replace one of your characters with Imoen in spellhold.
Vuki
QUOTE(Sikret @ Aug 20 2008, 12:14 AM) *
As you can read in the "Progress Report for IA v6", the second duel is improved and it won't be offered to a protagonist who doesn't have the xp equal to the xp of a 14th level druid.

Yes, I am aware of it. But what if the protagonist chooise to do the first battle when he is on level 14? The bug will still appear! Ok, maybe it is not a very big advantage on that level but the protagonist - depends on his class - can summon other creatures as well and they all remain there (skeleton warriors, Mordenkainen's Sword, ...). What if the protagonist can do the second battle only one day after the first battle? That will definitely remove this bug.

QUOTE
Didn't the suna-seni encounter trigger on your way to bridge distirct?!
No! That was very strange because I read here in the forum that it should happen before first travelling to the Bridge District. Ok, it was really hard to get out from Athkatla (I reload a lot) because I wanted to do the Suna Seni battle with Cernd. So, maybe this postpone makes this trigger ineffective.

QUOTE
So, if you *want* to see the "turn paladin" thing in your game, you can replace your custom inquisitor with Keldorn.

I am not a mazochist, so thank you for the offr, but not, I will not try this way. smile.gif

QUOTE
Yeah, I wish you good luck. And remember that you are not under an oath to play the game in this way. If you find it too hard you can replace one of your characters with Imoen in spellhold.

I have my other save (where I have my sorcerer and cleric/mage), so if that happens then I could change back to my previous save.
LZJ
Good luck with your non-arcane caster party, Vuki! By the way, one other major difficulty I think you'll face is Magic damage, since you'll have no arcane caster to buff you with Prot. Magic Energy. Further, the items conferring resistance to Magic damage come rather late in the game, and those Magic Protection (for MR) and Magic Shielding potions are rather expensive and rare. I hope you have a good strategy to deal with this, and I look forward to your updates!
Sikret
QUOTE(LZJ @ Aug 20 2008, 04:58 AM) *
By the way, one other major difficulty I think you'll face is Magic damage, since you'll have no arcane caster to buff you with Prot. Magic Energy.


Yes, I referred to this problem as "Lack of PFME" in my first post in this thread.
Kerkes
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 19 2008, 09:36 PM) *
I spoke with Shadan and he told to me that for example EDE will be easier because melee power is very important in EDE and I have more than other "normal" parties. I have no idea about it because I have no experience with EDE but I hope the best. smile.gif



well, I'd say that EDE will not be doable without some serious magery. 1 mage at least, 2 even better imo. Not maybe for damage dealing, but your fighters will need serious buffs.
If you do well with playing this party, hell, I'm going full arcane! 3 f/m's, c/m and 2 sorcs smile.gif
Vuki
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 20 2008, 02:48 AM) *
If you do well with playing this party, hell, I'm going full arcane! 3 f/m's, c/m and 2 sorcs smile.gif

That party is there for beginners. Once Raven told that IA V5.0 can be done by 6 sorcerers. Can you take the challenge? biggrin.gif
Raven
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 20 2008, 02:07 AM) *
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 20 2008, 02:48 AM) *
If you do well with playing this party, hell, I'm going full arcane! 3 f/m's, c/m and 2 sorcs smile.gif

That party is there for beginners. Once Raven told that IA V5.0 can be done by 6 sorcerers. Can you take the challenge? biggrin.gif


Heh, Kerkes already asked me about that himself.

Since several people have (understandably perhaps) misinterpreted what I was trying to say I should probably clarify:

I did not say 'IA v5 can be done by 6 sorcerers'. I said I thought I could finish virtually all of it with 6 sorcerers (which I still stand by). However, I wasn't suggesting it was a worthwhile exercise in practice - it was intended as an extreme example in response to the arguments that 'everyone plays IA with the same party'. Some of the harder battles would become incredibly tedious and repetitive.
Kerkes
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 20 2008, 01:07 AM) *
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 20 2008, 02:48 AM) *
If you do well with playing this party, hell, I'm going full arcane! 3 f/m's, c/m and 2 sorcs smile.gif

That party is there for beginners. Once Raven told that IA V5.0 can be done by 6 sorcerers. Can you take the challenge? biggrin.gif



I cannot play with 6 sorcs, it would take too long to finish the game, and, for me, it would be an excercise in suffering. I am also positive that I would find some battles un-doable. It would also make some battles much easier, + money would not be an issue. Perhaps 3 monks + 3 sorcs would be nice. But I dunno like monks.
LZJ
@Sikret:

I did not realize I repeated the point in your post... my eyes must have been playing tricks on me today.

As for Improved Haste, since Vuki seems to have 5 fighters, I think 5 fighters with Oils of Speed/Haste would be roughly equivalent to 3 fighters with Improved Haste in terms of damage output (if none are disabled of course)? However, lots of money would probably have to be spent on forging good weapons. I personally think lack of PfME, which Sikret pointed out, is far more damaging to your party composition.

However, that said, I would really be very impressed by any player finishing IA (even without EDE) without arcane casters. I look forward to your updates!
Vuki
I played with real heroes! biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Berti- Pick Pocket Failed
PAUSED
Lothar- Auto Paused: Enemy Sighted
UNPAUSED
Chicken- Attack Roll: 16 + 1 = 17: Hit
Chicken did 3 damage to Berti
Enna Hendricks- Them aren't your chickens! Erlin! Erlin, someone's after the chickens!

LOL! Berti has an AC of -2. And yeah I have the following reply option:

QUOTE
This is between us and the chickens, Ma'am, and I am going to ask you really nicely that you stay out of it!

I just imagine their face when they created this part of the game! For sure they were laughing for days!
leonidas
QUOTE(LZJ @ Aug 20 2008, 02:30 PM) *
@Sikret:

I did not realize I repeated the point in your post... my eyes must have been playing tricks on me today.

As for Improved Haste, since Vuki seems to have 5 fighters, I think 5 fighters with Oils of Speed/Haste would be roughly equivalent to 3 fighters with Improved Haste in terms of damage output (if none are disabled of course)? However, lots of money would probably have to be spent on forging good weapons. I personally think lack of PfME, which Sikret pointed out, is far more damaging to your party composition.

However, that said, I would really be very impressed by any player finishing IA (even without EDE) without arcane casters. I look forward to your updates!


Well......he DOES have judgement day and the flail of defending and wounding.

I equipped my vagrant with both and he was practically invincible.

So yeah, I think it can be done.
Kerkes
I don't think that it's possible to get JD without some magery in party. FoD&W is also a "hard to get" item. I dunno how you can battle dragons and some other tough monsters without mages. Mithril golem? Without imp.haste? No tnx. Inqusitors are cool at high levels, but don't expect miracles early in the game from them. I think even Cernd at high levels (ruby ray) won't contribute much without breach spells.
Party thief will probably have to use scrolls a lot when he gets UAI. Even early quests improved monsters such as Torgal will be very hard without a regular haste at least. Greater yuan-ti even worse perhaps. I am interested how it will go anyway.
Vuki
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 24 2008, 03:18 PM) *
I don't think that it's possible to get JD without some magery in party. FoD&W is also a "hard to get" item.

I have no experience with this battles, so I have no opinion about them at the moment.

QUOTE
I dunno how you can battle dragons and some other tough monsters without mages. Mithril golem? Without imp.haste? No tnx.
That is a good question. Later I will have improved haste from scrolls but my thief level will be not high enough in Underdark. So, that is really a question.

QUOTE
Inqusitors are cool at high levels, but don't expect miracles early in the game from them. I think even Cernd at high levels (ruby ray) won't contribute much without breach spells.

Breach is the task of the thief (by using the Wand of Spell Striking). So, breach is not a problem in the long run.
Vuki
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 24 2008, 03:18 PM) *
Even early quests improved monsters such as Torgal will be very hard without a regular haste at least. Greater yuan-ti even worse perhaps.

Hmm, I still haven't fighted against Tor'gal with this party but I beated Tazok and I think he is also very strong (even he is of course not as strong as Tor'gal). That was my party when I beated him:

Vagrant: 10. szint (=level - just for Baronius biggrin.gif )
Barbarian: 11.
Ranger->Cleric: 7/11
Inquisitor: 10
Berserker->Thief: 9/12
Auramaster (Cernd): 12

I was able to beat him without any cheesy method. I did not use any haste (not even with potion), I just used some buffing spells (chant, bless, draw upon holy might, ...). I will update my walkthrough soon and you can find there more details.
Baronius
QUOTE
10. szint

In English: level 10 laugh.gif tongue.gif (although I'm sure everyone knows what that line meant, I couldn't resist, sorry smile.gif).
Raven
I doubt you'll have too much trouble with TorGal. Cleric-type enemies are vulnerable to mass-attack by fighters, which is basically what you have.
LZJ
QUOTE
Hmm, I still haven't fighted against Tor'gal with this party but I beated Tazok and I think he is also very strong (even he is of course not as strong as Tor'gal).


Hmmm that's interesting Vuki. With 5 fighters, Imp. Haste is not really a necessity. I think your biggest challenge in the early game would not be from fighters or clerics, but from mages casting massive magic damage via Horrid Wiltings, especially those triple Horrid Wiltings. Please do elaborate on how you deal with those! Ilbratha? Potions of Magic Blocking + Carsomyr? Or just a Raise dead on some unlucky sacrifice after the battle is over? biggrin.gif

In the mid-game I think your challenge may come from powerful fighters/attackers, esp. the Grandlords. Your Auramaster and Ranger/Cleric can probably draw off most of the attacks though, since you lack a very hardy summons: the Mordy Sword.

Anyway, your party composition is very unique, and I'll be sure to check this regularly.
Vuki
QUOTE(Baronius @ Aug 24 2008, 06:00 PM) *
In English: level 10 laugh.gif tongue.gif (although I'm sure everyone knows what that line meant, I couldn't resist, sorry smile.gif).

No problem. smile.gif It was copied from the hungarian topic. biggrin.gif
Vuki
QUOTE(LZJ @ Aug 24 2008, 06:52 PM) *
Hmmm that's interesting Vuki. With 5 fighters, Imp. Haste is not really a necessity. I think your biggest challenge in the early game would not be from fighters or clerics, but from mages casting massive magic damage via Horrid Wiltings, especially those triple Horrid Wiltings. Please do elaborate on how you deal with those! Ilbratha? Potions of Magic Blocking + Carsomyr? Or just a Raise dead on some unlucky sacrifice after the battle is over? biggrin.gif

I agree, mages are really a challenge. My only hope will be the Dispel Magic of my Inquisitor. Unfortunately it does not work really well at the moment (he has level 10, so he dispels on level 14 which is definitely not enough) but when he reached level 13 he will dispel as level 18 which could be enough.

Against mages I have a tactics. I select one fighter (usually my barbarian) who stands close to the mage and make him busy. Other partymembers are standing a bit away and the mage cannot see them. When my fighter is really damaged then another partymember goes to the mage and the damaged fighter go back. Then he is cured, prebuffed and we repeat the process. That way the mage can damage only one character and Horrid Wilting is wasted (it makes damage only on one character, so in sum it does not damage too much). that is my tactics teoretically however I am not sure if it is really working in practice. smile.gif

BTW, until now nobody died in my party! I tried to avoid death even if it is not a condition in my game.
Kerkes
I've played with Keldorn not long ago, before he hits "really" high levels, all he could do was debuff enemy fighters and yuan-ti mages (not always). Most of dangerous mages are probably around 20+levels. Dragons even higher. He did wonders vs.Dracolich, but he was lvl 25 then.
I agree with Raven for clerics, but it's that razor blades spell which can be devastating early on for fighters, especialy humans.

@ Vuki

I'm sure you'll figure something out for both dragons and mithril golem. If you made this party (the most original I've seen by far) you'll certainly be finding special tactics not used by others.
geh4th
I mean no offense, and it's probably necessary given your party composition, but wouldn't the "one fighter at a time" tactic really be considered at least a minor form of 'cheese' as defined by Sikret? If it were a roleplaying combat, what enemy would really fall for such a thing?

I know you're wanting to do something totally different and have to devise tactics that work for you; good luck. We all await word on how things go.

G-
Vuki
QUOTE(geh4th @ Aug 25 2008, 12:59 AM) *
I mean no offense, and it's probably necessary given your party composition, but wouldn't the "one fighter at a time" tactic really be considered at least a minor form of 'cheese' as defined by Sikret? If it were a roleplaying combat, what enemy would really fall for such a thing?

Personally I do not think so but we should wait for Sikret's opinion. My fighter (let's call him a hero from now on smile.gif ) is not just standing there: he attacks the enemy continously. And other characters do not make any offensive manoeuvre to the enemies, they just heal themselves (but not the hero who is standing close to the enemy). Whenever I cast a spell on the hero (or cast any offensive spell, for example Death Spell on enemy's summons) the character is moved close enough to be noticed by the enemy. I am sure it is not against the current cheat and cheesy methods (but of course it does not mean that it is not against for a later version).
Vuki
I was thinking about it a bit and I am sure now that it is not cheesy. It is a tactical retreat like what Sikret did against Tor'gal. Other example is the tactics when you retreat your cleric to a safe place and move any damaged character there to be cured.

This tactics has also some serious drawbacks.

- It works only against one enemy (at least not too much chance against more than one)
- You cannot help your character easily, if he needs an immediately help (like healing) then you have to waste a lot of time to move there your cleric
geh4th
Point taken, but I'd definitely like to hear Sikret weigh in on this with his opinion.

Good luck against those mages!

G-
Sikret
Well, I'm not going to interfere and talk about playing styles unless the case is a plain cheat or a very clearly cheesy method. This particular case is not one such case and I wouldn't write about it if you did not ask.

Personally, I don't use the mentioned method in my game, because as I've written in my "Started a v5 game" thread I avoid even debatable methods. As Vuki said, the mentioned method is not even usable in most cases unless you are facing a single enemy mage, but then if you see that you are misusing the engine limitations against that enemy, you should probably have a bad feeling about it as well. I think everyone can judge such special and debatable cases when they happen in his or her own game.

But let's put it in this way:

When your warrior is injured and you want to take him back to heal him, what course of action do you choose: Do you firstly send a new warrior to take the first warrior's position and just then you take the injured one back? Or do you straightly take the injured one back allowing the enemy mage to follow him and see the rest of your party?

If the latter, it's not cheesy, because the enemy mage will eventually have the chance to follow him and see the rest of your party.

If the former, then it is probably a tad cheesy in my opinion. At least, I don't use such a method in my own games. In general, I won't feel good if I sense that I'm somehow (even slightly) deceiving the game's engine.
Vuki
QUOTE(Sikret @ Aug 25 2008, 09:28 AM) *
Personally, I don't use the mentioned method in my game, because as I've written in my "Started a v5 game" thread I avoid even debatable methods. As Vuki said, the mentioned method is not even usable in most cases unless you are facing a single enemy mage, but then if you see that you are misusing the engine limitations against that enemy, you should probably have a bad feeling about it as well. I think everyone can judge such special and debatable cases when they happen in his or her own game.

I have found out a slight modification of this tactics. In that case all (or most) of my characters are in the view area of the enemy caster but they are spread on the screen to avoid being damaged by area affect spells (I mean only one or maybe two can be damaged by them). That is definitely not cheesy (however not always useable).

QUOTE
When your warrior is injured and you want to take him back to heal him, what course of action do you choose: Do you firstly send a new warrior to take the first warrior's position and just then you take the injured one back? Or do you straightly take the injured one back allowing the enemy mage to follow him and see the rest of your party?

If the latter, it's not cheesy, because the enemy mage will eventually have the chance to follow him and see the rest of your party.

If the former, then it is probably a tad cheesy in my opinion. At least, I don't use such a method in my own games. In general, I won't feel good if I sense that I'm somehow (even slightly) deceiving the game's engine.

It is really funny. I was also thinking about these two ways when I developed this tactics and my idea was that the first one is not cheesy and the second one is cheesy. So, it is the opposite as you think. smile.gif My reason was the following: in the former option one of my character is always defending the party and keep the enemy away and in the second case the retreat of my hero from the mage is similar than a run away. You mentioned in the cheesy pdf that run away is cheesy and tactical retreat is not. And also this flee to the party and then send the next fighter case can be done even while the mage is casting something and then he has no chance to follow my hero.

Btw, this tactical retreat is still not clear for me. Ok, let's examine the Tor'Gal case. You retrieve 2-3 of your backup characters to the other room while others are protecting them. That is ok. But then what do you do with the remaining characters? If you move them back to the other room then in reality they flee back and not just retreat. It is pity that retreat is not implemented in the game because it is implemented in the paper based game. As I remember if you retreat then you cannot attack and you only move half speed but the enemy cannot get any bonus attack (they get one free attack - or maybe one full round - if you flee). Hmm, may I ask yo to maybe make a video about this retreat and upload it to Youtube to make it clear for everybody?
Arkain
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 25 2008, 09:43 AM) *
[...]
My reason was the following: in the former option one of my character is always defending the party and keep the enemy away and in the second case the retreat of my hero from the mage is similar than a run away. You mentioned in the cheesy pdf that run away is cheesy and tactical retreat is not. And also this flee to the party and then send the next fighter case can be done even while the mage is casting something and then he has no chance to follow my hero.

Btw, this tactical retreat is still not clear for me. Ok, let's examine the Tor'Gal case. You retrieve 2-3 of your backup characters to the other room while others are protecting them. That is ok. But then what do you do with the remaining characters? If you move them back to the other room then in reality they flee back and not just retreat. It is pity that retreat is not implemented in the game because it is implemented in the paper based game. As I remember if you retreat then you cannot attack and you only move half speed but the enemy cannot get any bonus attack (they get one free attack - or maybe one full round - if you flee). Hmm, may I ask yo to maybe make a video about this retreat and upload it to Youtube to make it clear for everybody?


If I was a mage fighting someone who then retreats/flees and is replaced by another guy to hold me off I'd start to wonder where that guy came from and maybe ask myself whether I should get moving (as there may be more enemies lurking around) or not. It would be quite dumb to sit around and simply keep fighting the replacement hero, imho.

If my memory is correct Sikret's explanation was that when retreating the battle doesn't stop but goes on. So if you keep on fighting after retreating/fleeing it's still the same battle, thus you simply moved into a better position. Strategy and all that. Or something along those lines.
Sikret
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 25 2008, 12:13 PM) *
My reason was the following: in the former option one of my character is always defending the party and keep the enemy away and in the second case the retreat of my hero from the mage is similar than a run away. You mentioned in the cheesy pdf that run away is cheesy and tactical retreat is not. And also this flee to the party and then send the next fighter case can be done even while the mage is casting something and then he has no chance to follow my hero.


No, the mage will follow you after casting his spell. What I referred to as "Hit&Run" in the "cheats" section of the pdf file (note that it is not listed as cheesy method; it's cheat) is that you keep running and running and running just to kill time so that the enemies' protections expire. A mere retreat to another room just to take new positions is not cheat (nor cheesy) as emphasized in the pdf file.

QUOTE
Btw, this tactical retreat is still not clear for me. Ok, let's examine the Tor'Gal case. You retrieve 2-3 of your backup characters to the other room while others are protecting them. That is ok. But then what do you do with the remaining characters? If you move them back to the other room then in reality they flee back and not just retreat.
No, see above. TorGal can still follow your party as long as you do not keep running forever.

QUOTE

I have found out a slight modification of this tactics. In that case all (or most) of my characters are in the view area of the enemy caster but they are spread on the screen to avoid being damaged by area affect spells (I mean only one or maybe two can be damaged by them).


Yes, this is sound provided that you do not just spread your party and stand there doing nothing and waiting for the enemy protections to expire. If the spread characters are spellcasters who actually cast spells, then it is not cheesy, but if they are warriors who have just spread and kept distance to avoid damage from spells, then it is cheesy.
Vuki
QUOTE(Sikret @ Aug 25 2008, 12:35 PM) *
No, see above. TorGal can still follow your party as long as you do not keep running forever.

Ok, I get the point. I can move to another place (without even defending the party) but then I have to attack again and do not continue to run forever.
Vuki
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 24 2008, 03:18 PM) *
Even early quests improved monsters such as Torgal will be very hard without a regular haste at least. Greater yuan-ti even worse perhaps. I am interested how it will go anyway.

I killed the Yuan-Ti mage which has the flail head (I think it was the monster you refered here). My party was mainly on level 11 and there was no real problem during that fight. I used the strategy I described above but I did not move the characters outside from the enemy view, so he could cast spells on them (and he did it). I some of times beated him with all of my characters and I almost killed him before he casted his PfMW (he was near death when he did it). Finally my berserker->thief died during that battle because I was not able to retrieve with him to heal.

I will try to beat tomorrow Tor'gal! smile.gif

One question about item development. Guys (and girls smile.gif ), what is your idea, should I create cloak of prot. +2 and +3 with this party? What about prot rings? Are these really worth the money?
Kerkes
Congratulations on greater yuan-ti! I find this un-doable without breach because I think he has a pretty low ac + is stoneskined , knows pfmw, getting slowed is unavoidable + he really enjoys feeblemind. But then again, I usually have 2 or 3 fighters, one usually gets disabled unless I'm very lucky with my saves, and you have 5 smile.gif. I'd say go for the rings (one or two, they're damn expensive). I love having low saves. Not on berserker or barbarian, but vagrants could definitely profit from those, at least until you get Equilizer (I think you'll probably have your cleric with harmony shield). Later, get a +4 ring to forge Gaxx.
geh4th
In my current run (vagrant PC, all BioWare NPC's), my top priority is to get Phosphorus. I don't know if this is smart, but I know it's feasible and...I want it smile.gif

Ring and cloak upgrades seem too pricey to me to be done before leaving for spellhold. But that's just personal opinion; I'm sure others believe in getting better rings and cloaks as early as possible.


G-
Kerkes
Phosporus is good early on, it boosts your thac0 alot. And is +4, but you don't need that in spelhold unless you go late. I use DUHM for strenght, and foa+3 does elemental damage to bash trough stoneskin and disrupt spellcasting. If I had someone with less than 18+str who could use it (Keldorn not included) I'd forge it.
SpellStorm
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 26 2008, 01:08 AM) *
One question about item development. Guys (and girls smile.gif ), what is your idea, should I create cloak of prot. +2 and +3 with this party? What about prot rings? Are these really worth the money?


I think that you should wait before doing the ring/cloak upgrades until you have enough money. Maybe, in chapter 6 will be a good time. In the meantime, your party will collect enough rings and cloaks +1 for everyone, even some extra ones.
Vuki
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 26 2008, 01:24 AM) *
Phosporus is good early on, it boosts your thac0 alot. And is +4, but you don't need that in spelhold unless you go late. I use DUHM for strenght, and foa+3 does elemental damage to bash trough stoneskin and disrupt spellcasting. If I had someone with less than 18+str who could use it (Keldorn not included) I'd forge it.

I have made Treefolk's Arm and now the strength of my characters is the following:
- Vagrant: 19
- Barbarian (half-ork): 19
- Ranger->cleric: 18/99
- Berserker->thief: 18/88
- Inquisitor: 18/87
- Cernd: I do not remember, it is low, but who cares? smile.gif

It is not bad, isn't it? And there is cheating in it, this are thrown values (ok, vagrant originally had 18/15 but with Treefolk' Arm it went up to 19).
Raven
Treefolk's Arm is a great weapon which I always try to go for early. In general I agree with SpellStorm; I don't tend to spend gold on improving protective items until Chapter 6. However, if you're having trouble with your party being disabled, improving their saves might be important. Potions of Invulnerability and Stone Form would be a cheaper way to do it, provided you were careful with when you used them.
Kerkes
Treefolk is an awsome weapon, probably the easiest +4 weapon to get in game. But I dunno have "multiple strongholds" installed. sad.gif
I try to get Gaxx improved always, so to me it's like a "future investment" + only Cromwell can forge +4 ring. I am very cheap about using potions. Breach scrolls also. Troll mound usually takes about 10 or so breaches, if not more.
Sikret
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 26 2008, 03:17 PM) *
only Cromwell can forge +4 ring.


Are you sure? If I remember correctly, Cespenar can also forge the +4 ring. It's the +3 cloak which he can't forge.
Vuki
QUOTE(Sikret @ Aug 26 2008, 12:57 PM) *
Are you sure? If I remember correctly, Cespenar can also forge the +4 ring. It's the +3 cloak which he can't forge.

How much +3 cloak is found in the game? Should I make some or will I find enough?
Kerkes
@Sikret

You're right, I always tought it's the ring.

@Vuki

You'll have a lot of cloaks. You won't find +3, but you can make them.
Vuki
QUOTE(Kerkes @ Aug 26 2008, 01:59 PM) *
You'll have a lot of cloaks. You won't find +3, but you can make them.

Ok, thanks. So it really worth to make them still in SoA (you cannot make them in ToB).
Raven
QUOTE(Vuki @ Aug 19 2008, 09:23 PM) *
SPOILER!

Cernd also used the spell Magic Resistance against him and it set his resistance to a new level which was hopefully lower then his actual resistance (Cernd was level 12, so it sets resistance of Tazok to 24% no matter how high it was before). After it he was able to affect him by spells.

If you want to play without cheesy tactics then don't do this. Magic Resistance is even tweaked in v6 so it only affects the caster.


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