Since the Expanded Paladin Stronghold will probably be the next in the queue, I want to know your opinion about whether a paladin protagonist should be forced to donate a weekly amount of gold to the poor.

I'm only thinking of adding this feature for when the protagonist is a paladin. Should it be for any paladin kit or only for a new kit I will probably add to the game? Or do you think that such an idea is not really interesting at all? If you like the idea how much do you suggest as the donation rate? The poll contains both questions.

In either case, I will postpone implementing it to when I actually and completely add the Expanded Paladin Stronghold to the mod.

Please note that those who choose the 5th answer to the second question should also send a reply to this thread and write thier suggested donation rate compared to the paladin's level. The "I" in the answer doesn't refer to me, it refers to the voter. So far, one voter has chosen this answer but has not sent any post.

I voted 'Yes' and for there to be a dependence on level on how much is expected to be donated. When the stronghold is first gained (after defeating Conster and rescuing Garren's child) the paladin will probably be about level 12. At this point about 2000 a week seems reasonable. At higher levels I think this should increase to more like 4000 or 5000. Maybe even more.

I think this is a good idea, it forces the player to control their gold spending and keep some aside for donation. Some people might find that annoying but I think it's a nice reflection of the fact that it's not supposed to be easy to be a paladin; this is the sort of sacrifice a paladin has to make.

I welcome this idea, very good roleplaying addition. But about money: imho we should compair how much gold can you get from other strongholds weekly. Fighter stronghold (not improved yet) gives 500 g per week. Thief stronghold (not improved) can give more money, but they are thieves. The 2 improved strongholds (mage and ranger) gives good scrolls at every week, these srcolls worth a lot of money (as far as I remember 4-6000 gold). You should also keep in mind paladins are not treasure hunters and they don't gather treasure usually. So I suggest 1000-2000 gold per week, or according to paladin level, but in this range.
I hope paladin's will enjoy some benefits of their order as others casts enjoy money or scrolls. Maybe ther would be some paladins or hanchman to help the protagonist in the important fights or in those fights which has so noble goal as paladin order can expect.

Traditionally, a "tithe" was 10%. You could require a weekly 10% donation. (Marginally faffy to code, but doable: a protagonist with up to 10000 gives nothing, one with 10,000-20,000 gives 1000, etc up to say 100,000.) Or you could make it more than 10% if you prefer.

A percentage gold piece tithe could be effective in IA because of how expensive some of the items are to forge (you may have large amount of gold pieces at one time while saving up). However, my concern with this is that the player could just ensure they spent much of their gold before the time of the week when they are due to donate. The flat rate (or rate dictated by level) means this kind of behaviour wouldn't be encouraged.

I agree with a percentile donation. Sounds quite reasonable.

Concerning crafting. I think that you can change the crafting gold cost such that a paladin gets a certain discount dependent on his reputation (could be a straight value or a percentile value discount). It's like shopping... the higher your reputation, the higher the discount.... only for crafting it may be arranged somewhat different (class-dependent or reputation-dependent or alignment-dependent or charisma-dependent).

The percentile donation is out of question. It has the problem Raven mentioned (it opens possibility for exploits). So, please only concentrate on the existent options of the poll in your posts.

I would like it,. if the amount of gold one has to pay is something like this:
Lvl 1=250 gold
Lvl 2=500 gold
and so on.
In BGII you start with lvl 7 so you have to pay directly out of Irenicus dungeon 1750 gold. For the start of the game that is quite a sum so I think this kind of amount is reasonable.

You could also say that a lvl one paladin should donate a weekly amount of 500 gold, but at some point this will just begin too look silly. I don't recall having 3500 gold right after exiting Irenicus dungeon

Having a linear dependence like that doesn't make too much sense IMO just because the gain of wealth with levels is not linear e.g. a 10th level paladin has accumulated more than twice the wealth of a 5th level paladin (probably considerably more). By 'wealth' I don't just mean gp but value of equipment and so on.

How about a percentage donation but based on experience? He has to pay 1% of the experince he earned during the last week (ok, to be more precise: from the last occasion he payed his donation). If he got 200k XP then he should pay 2k gold.

Good luck coding it! (it wouldn't be quite impossible, but it would be horribly clunky).

Why? I do not know how the programming engine of BG2 works but I am sure you can define global variables. You have to define one variable to store XP of the paladin when last time he/she payed his donation and when next time he/she pays it then you should subtract it from actual XP and then divide it by 100.

You're drastically overestimating the flexibility of the BG2 scripting language.

Vuki, your suggestion would be doable (in fact, trivial) in case of a (modern, general-purpose) programming language. Unfortunately, the expressive power of the BG2 scripting language is very far from what a general-purpose programming language can offer.

Ok guys, I revoke my idea!

I just want to put in some counterpoint here.

I understand that requiring Paladins to donate is desirable from a 'roleplaying' standpoint, but look at the flow of the game here as well.

IA has made money harder to come by. Having to give some away will hurt item upgrading.
The Paladin stronghold is lame by comparison to others (a new one would improve this I assume).
Forcing a tithe will also simply encourage treasure-hoarding...meaning not selling gems/magic items until time to upgrade. If you have less cash-on-hand, you'll have to tithe less.

In my opinion, to enact a tithe and also still encourage people to play a Paladin protagonist, there would need to be a very significant benefit to being a Paladin that makes it 'worth' having to tithe (whatever amount is decided upon.) Otherwise nobody will ever play a Paladin.

Just my 2 cents.

G-

I agree with you. Additionally paladins are at a disadvantage in IA because they can be turned. But I think Sikret will use the new paladin stronghold to redress the balance and make paladins more appealing.

...and that's excactly why it's so darn hard to vote yes. I voted no, as I think I need some more informations. In our context with the given knowledge of IA I would prefer to keep my money...

From a convenience standpoint, I'd vote no.
From a roleplaying standpoint, I'd vote yes, though only after obtaining the stronghold, and hopefully it won't make it extra difficult for Paladin protagonists to buy/forge the expensive IA gear. Sacrifices a paladin makes? Sure, but if he dies because he doesn't have decent gear in order to survive IA's battles (I reckon the new gear helps with that, correct me if I'm wrong). I'd hate to sell my expensive gear and be in extra danger for the sake of the poor.

I voted no, because...

But there is a way of getting around the level checking and everything. It's lowering the paladin protagonists reputation by one, every week.
As that way, the ammount of money is up to you, and it solves the level thing etc. And remember, a paladin is a char that needs to do good deeds every week(for the paladins abilities), not just when he likes it(ea feature in the stronghold).

Don't worry about such things, geh4th! I am a professional in blocking exploits!

Also, as Raven mentioned, this feature will be added together with enhancing the paladin stronghold, not before that.

Well, as discussed I'm sure that Sikret already knows what he'd like to do with the Paladin stronghold, but one idea for deferring the cost of tithing would be that all temple-provided healing services be free or heavily discounted. I don't know how often these services are used, though.

Maybe there could even be a further purchasing discount for a Paladin who's tithed (similar to what would occur if there was a charisma increase or reputation increase.)

I don't know if any of that can be coded though. I know nothing of the coding...

G-

I think all of the paladin PC's must donate 5- 10% of their gold every week, but they start with +2 reputation.