Thank you Sikret for a very new and exciting mod
I am a longtime reader and player and a 1st time poster. I have played BGII for a long time and consider myself an mid level player ( i.e a plodder who enjoys new challenges but I am not a powergamer). As such I find IA to be very much a mixed bag. I love the new content so far but am finding it very hard to get through. I enjoy increased difficulty and new monsters but I also enjoy using new and powerful items and abilities. I appreciate the love and attention to detail you have put in to the game but really wish it was more doable for mid level players. Particularly frustrating was the restrictions placed on scrolls (esp. undead prot.) and the limited healing potions and magic items. I respect the fact that you want to curtail cheese and overpowered tactics but I really lament the nerfing of the thief and the use of missile weapons in general. The thief or assassin at high levels should be a formidable foe and I think you could make it very interesting for the player by returning some power to this class and perhaps incorperating a great thief stronghold quest and gainable item(s) perhaps in conjunction with a more satisfying evil version (Bhaal was after all the assassins fave god). Many of us love the game from a D&D background and the thief is the heart of that game. Obviously the thief is not and never was intended to be a frontline fighter and as such will have problems going toe to toe with some of the stronger monsters and bosses but a high level rogue with blinding speed , nimbleness , ability to utilise many different items and disappear in a flash should provide pause for thought in even the strongest foes heart.
Another class which should be helped a bit IMO is the shooter. The extreme example of this is the Elven Archer who should be dangerous enough that any enemy should have to take special measures against this attacker. But in general those players who enjoy scouting ahead and using more stealthy methods of combat should be catered for. The battles in IA can become very linear and fighter oriented albeit with divine and arcane magic help.
I know that in the past some of the biggest abuses of the game came from these classes , continually going invisible and backstabbing as well as archers picking off enemies one by one using the fog of war to shield the rest of your party but these should easily remedied by intelligent enemies who will simply not stand there and take it (or a cloudkill for that matter) but will promptly hunt down the party. I believe that the game works best when every class can contribute something worthwhile to every combat. I believe that if you have a back you are susceptible to backstab (the protagonist and his NPCs are) but that intelligent foes will take measures to make sure it doesnt happen again. I believe that immunity to backstab should be removed from most enemies particularly ones that have no legitimate reason to have it.
I think that the combat itself should decide which classes are more effective. For example those combats which take place in confined areas (Belm,s Guardian , Trademeet crypt) will be very hard for archers while easier for tanks and clerics whereas the sewer party should give archers and invisible backstabbing thieves the advantage. I think that cheese is not an issue here as you should fight your battles according to your strength. The sewer party will be forced to address your thief and/or archer allowing your other characters more options. I do not think this is cheesy this is just tactics. I think that stronger or more specialised missile weapons should be available (bullets,arrows,bolts). The Archer's best tactic is long range lethality - set him up and make the enemy come to him through traps and your fighters, summons and your invisible thief.
Special mention here goes to the underdark drow ambushes which I think need to be toned down. Thieves and archers can be utilised here particularly if the archer has arrows of dispelling. The point here is not make the thieves and archers overpowered but to restore their power to such an extent that the enemy must pay particular attention to them thereby taking pressure off the frontliners. This may in turn change the tougher fights into less reliance on micro wars of attrition and healing potions.
I congratulate you on a great mod ( I dont know if I will get through it ) but please bring back the thief and archer as good options.

very good said, but i think he will not modify these classes cuz most likely too much work
IA=hack&n slash & timing for me, if i will play another IA game, i will go 4 fighters, berserk>cleric, 1 bard. no need anything else for IA imo.

Nexiam I think that Sikret may not like to make the changes because in his view it may blur the line between Hit & Run and Cheese too much but I don't believe it is very much work to change because it is after all just restoring something that was already there.
Good luck with your party - I think you may have trouble without at least one high level Arcane caster.

bard=very arcane imo

I think you will find that your party will lack greatly in high level spell protections that a strong mage or sorcerer can give. I am thinking primarily of Prot. from magic energy and prot from elements which are very necessary in this game. I am not sure what level Bards spells stop at ,but if is level 5 I don't know how you are going to bring down enemy spell and combat protections without access to Pierce magic, Ruby ray , Khelben, Spellstrike etc. Also having Improved Haste is a must for this game. I would think that you need to dual or multi class at least two of your warriors to help with high level arcane spells and maybe more divine help. Or seriously consider dropping one of your party at Spellhold to grab Imoen as she is a Sorcerer and from what Ive heard is the most powerful arcane caster in the game.

man relax it was metaphoric to show how most classes suck, and how good fighters are in IA

oops sorry as I said I am a newbie.

I'm not sure how the bard spell level nerf is going to be implemented.
1. Sikret may simply change the spell progression table from bards
2. Sikret may change all the high level scrolls to be unusable by bards

Personally I think it's the first since it's the easiest to do (the spell progression table change). In such a case you can still use scrolls in the quickbar and thus use protection from the elements, protection from magical weapons, ruby ray scrolls and whatever else you want. It's sometimes even better since you cannot be interrupted. The only bad thing is that you have to be picky with your scrolls since their numbers are limited.

All in all I don't think it's such a big problem, eventhough I would have preferred a change to the vanilla restriction (which is max spell level 6).

@Frazurblu

Thanks for the comments.

A few points:

1- The reason behind enemies' immunity to traps are explained in the mod's F.A.Q.

2- Most enemies are vulnerable to backstab. So, I don't follow you in what you said about backstab.

3- Resistance to missile damage has been omitted from most enemies in v5. Are you still playing an older version of the mod? Non-cheesy use of ranged weapons is quite available in the mod. If you have read my walkthorugh, you can see that I also used ranged weapons in some instances.

4- Preventing cheesy methods is my first priority. Most of the improved enemies already have anti-cheese precautionary blocks in their scripts to react properly and smartly against cheesy players who attack from offscreen or abuse the fog of war.

5- Playing IA requires learning new tactics. It's not hack-and-slash or a melee-oriented game for those who can discover the right tactics to play other classes effectively. Draw a learning curve for yourself and try to figure out new and non-cheesy tactics.





These are the old well-known typical comments of those players who don't know how to play spellcasters effectively in IA. As Raven once correctly mentioned, a single class mage (or sorcerer) is much more effective in IA even than a mighty vagrant ranger in the hands of a skilled player who knows how to play spellcasters. Instead of clinging with hack-and-slash you could draw a learning curve and practice to figure out new tactics and methods to play your spellcasters. The old cheesy methods of playing arcane casters (such as Project Image and army of summons, etc...) no longer work.

lol hack&nslash cheesy? )))))))

No, I was referring to old cheesy methods of playing mages. Since some players only knew those methods, now that they are blocked, they think that spellcasters are offensively useless instead of trying to find better and non-cheesy methods.

mb in party with 4-5 or few fighters they useful, but in a normal party, hack&nslash just faster

Hack&slash works, but it's not the only way to win the battles or to play the mod.

Well, the problem many players seem to have regarding spellcasters is that your usual (basic) nuke spells - like Skull Trap, Fireball, Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting or Dragon's Breath - won't work all the time. It's more difficult to find spells, like Chain Lightning, that work on the enemies found in IA. And even if you find a useful spell for a specific battle it might be useless in the next, because the enemy might have different elemental resistances. And just then might be the moment when you can put Vampiric Touch or Flame Arrow to good use. Or maybe just some non-damaging spells like Emotion which are very helpful if they work. "Luckily" given the new spells arcane caster are effective again even for the "casual gamer" type, given the new "obvious" anti golem spells.
Another problem might be that many have their spellcaster busy as a debuffer and are thus unable to use them offensively. But that might be a matter of character usage or even party composition. Then again, why would it be bad to use your spellcaster to debuff the opponent and keep him busy so that he doesn't get the chance to unleash his arcane carnage on your whole party in mere seconds?

During my first IA-run I had the same impression. I guess it's the same for most players: the beginning is the hardest part. You have to adjust to the mod etc.. I still think that simple melee combat is a tactic that might work always or in most cases, yet this doesn't mean it's the best. It's rather the most obvious.

I have not progressed very far and based my query on posts from this forum. I must have misread about the ineffectiveness of backstabbing. BTW what is the best way of dealing with strength drainers (getting hell from the shadow lover).

What level are you? If you're close to the beginning of the game maybe it'd be easier to leave the battle for later.
SPOILER!

My party is composed of Vagrant (Protagonist), Keldorn, Anomen, Nalia and Valgyar (will add Immy at Spellhold) all of whom are between levels 9 and 10. I am planning to collect Yoshi just prior to leaving for Brynnlaw because he has a good heart I take the view that with Nalia in the group I have thieving skills covered , Yoshi doesn't add a whole lot in combat and I can level up quicker.
To Date I have followed your suggested quest order although I have not done any of Windspear yet nor have I started Aran's quest. I have completed the Unseeing eye while leaving the Undead village , Ashideena and the rest of the beholder lair for later. I have taken out the Rakshasas in Trademeet and the sewer and the 1st level of the D'Arnise Keep just to get Nalia off my back! (is that that enough to stop her complaining - it seems to be). Also took out Kangaxx's guardians (great fun) and introduced myself. Cleared the graveyard up to and including Pai na's door. I plan to complete the rest of your intinery and get Lilicar , I would appreciate any suggestions as to what to do next.
What is the Xp/level ceiling for my protagonist pre Brynnlaaw (to avoid the really tough stuff)?
Forged my first item (+3 ring) . Given my party what Artifacts do you think I should be aiming for? You know the various weapons my NPCs can use and my vagrant has 2 weapon fighting , hammers , longswords , longbows and halberds.