For a new game (having messed up my first, highly educational one), I'd like to form a very strong party composed of Bioware NPCs (with minor or appropriate tweaks, e.g. Anomen -> Priest of Helm or Minsc -> Berserker). In the hope that I'm not bothering anyone, I'd like to submit the following for the resident experts' 'approval'.

PC Vagrant - axe, long sword, flail, club
Minsc (SK'ed to Berserker) - greatsword, halberd, spear
Anomen - hammer, mace, flail
Haer'Dalis - short sword, scimitar, dagger, long sword
Cernd - staff, spear
Nalia -> Imoen - staff, dagger

Now, I have two problems with this party: first, it contains two characters who will never be able to do anything much in melee, and one who will shine defensively but not do much damage. (In my last game, two straight warriors and two semi-warriors seemed barely enough, even when buffed to the rim.) Secondly, while I would like a sorceress at least from Chapter 4 onwards, that would mean wasting much experience on Nalia.


So my questions are:

(1) Is a Berserker (with Minsc's stats and two-handed weapon focus) preferable to Valygar (with his powerful equipment in late SoA) or even Keldorn (I am quite wary of him in IA)?

(2) Is the party as a whole capable of enough melee havoc, in your opinion?

(3) Is Nalia preferable to Imoen in the long run? I'd have them both again, but that seemed like overkill (then again, I didn't make it all that far...).


Of course, any quite unrelated or unorthodox advice on party composition is welcome!

Seems a fairly sound party, rgough as you mention mellee may be alittle weak though the vagrant, minsc and anomen should dish good damage. To remedy this I would switch out cernd for jaheira SK'd to R/C and specializing in dual wield clubs then hammers. This will allow her to use the good early clubs and then advance to Crom Faeyr and runehammer in late game making her an awesome prospect. Anomen will still be fine for weapons as he is already a master in flails and should be able to use FOA throughout. The other advantage is Jaheira has some good NPC quest for early exp which also grant you a couple of useful items though the harper pin can't be worn by her as a non-druid.

Seems a good party. In the first part of game haer'dalis can do good damage with minute meteor + offensive spin combination. His thaco lowered very good if you cast on him 2 strength spell (make him 18/00 strength). I suggest to put the first prof to katana and buy the dak'kon blade to him because he get one more magic missile, mirror image, minute meteor and stoneskin, and his armor class lowered. His dexterity good so he have very good armor class with a spirit armor and the dak'kon blade (if you by it always equip in the left hand because after he casted a meteor the bonus slots missing). With defensive spin and some protection item he can reach -24 ac. Once he get a level 6 slot he can transform a real slayer with tenser transformation.

Shadan always say the auramaster is shine in the early and middle game but sucks in the late game. You write you will change Anomen to Helm priest. Do you think single class priest? If you think you will sucks because the single class priest cannot able to fight well. If you not think the single class than Anomen will be good character and i suggest to change cernd to aerie. You get a second arcane and a second divine caster, and you can combine the two magic with seqencers, and contigencies. She is a very good support caster.

Jaheira as ranger/cleric is very good fighter and a decent tank. So if you want druidic spells i suggest her.

Don't change Nalia because you won't have thief so you lose lots of xp, and she is very good caster with her enchanted ring.

If you like the sorcerers do a custom instead cernd or create a custom wild mage instead it. I think the wild mage the best caster in the early game and if you cannot like it you can change it to Imoen.

I think Minsc better choice than Valygar. But i better like the barbarian because the barbarian rage adds better bonuses than the berserkers (+4 strength and cons). They loses the grand mastery but if you like 3 type weapon you cannot reach it only high level, and that time the barbarian get 20% weapon immunity so with a warblade +5 and hardiness you can reach 70% physical immunity. You will be fast and you have better hp 1.2x.

Thanks for the replies so far.


To clarify: I didn't intend to change Anomen to a single class cleric, it was a just an example of an appropriate change (I don't like to throw RP entirely out of the window for convenience, as in making Korgan an Necromancer or something like that).

Jaheira as a Ranger/Cleric... that sounds sensible. I'm not really bothered about druidic spells (except for Ironskins and maybe Nature's Beauty), I just think a secondary healer would be a good idea, and Aerie would shift the party to much towards arcane spellcasting, having no proper melee ability herself.

If Barbarian Rage grants immunities comparable to those of Enrage, a Barbarian Minsc would make a fine addition indeed. Good idea.


Here's crazy one:

Vagrant
Minsc (Barbarian)
Anomen
Haer'Dalis
Viconia (Cleric/Thief)
Nalia, maybe -> Imoen

Why Cleric/Thief? Well, for one, it's something new and gives me a Romance option as well (bad reasons for a powergaming party, I know). Also, it means I can always easily deal with traps and locks, which is convenient if far from essential. It still allows for decent healing and tanking with clerical buffs (which render the caster's original attributes irrelevant), and the ability to detect illusions and set (HLA) traps might offer the occasional tactical twist.

Would Viconia totally gimp my party when compared to a R/C Jaheira?

I think Nalia is enough for thief, but if you like better Imoen then a half-thief class is good choice for the 5. position.
The cleric thief is a useful character but she cannot do anything in battles, because you need too much buff to make her a decent fighter. I use a cleric/thief in my party, (see my walkthrough) but he is very boring character in the battles. I usually use him to heal and detec illusions, and sometimes he tries some prebuff and hold person. In the late game he will more usable (i hope).

There is a very annoying thing about the cleric/thief:
the thieving button is in the special ability group because the turn undead is in there playe so you must click two time to disarm a trap or lock a pick.
I think one-and-half o two arcane caster much better than the same amount divine casters.
Why the clerical spells better to tanking than the arcanes?

Not forget that viconia have 65% magic resistant so she can disract lots of enemy spell if she is alone. You have good melee power so you not need at all cost one more melee character. Some idea:

Viconia as Cleric/Thief:
the support character

Viconia as Cleric
change Anomen to Jaheira so you get a exotic cleric and a good fighter and a decent tank tank (if you change jahe to Ranger/Cleric).

Viconia as Fighter/Cleric:
Not as good as a Ranger/Cleric but you have the magic res and the ranger/cleric is not fit to Vicy.

Viconia as Fighter/Thief
Viconia forsoke Lolth, and he workship to Shar, but she never said that she is the cleric of Shar. Shar is the protector of thives and Viconia must fight lot in the surface so the fighter/thief fits well to her. She easily raise her magic resistant to 100% and she can use the grandfather of assasins too.

Viconia as Fighter/Mage/Thief
My choice with one of my party. I started with the last case but my PC was a Mage so i think he though Viconia a bit so it is logical. She lose 1-2 level from her classes but she get a mage class and she will be a very good tank.

Viconia as Fighter/Mage/Cleric
Not fit as well than the others but this is a very useful and strong character. You get HLA as a natur Fighter/Cleric but you can use arcene/divine combos like a Cleric/Mage. She is a very good fighter because the offensive divine buffs and she is very good fighter because her defensive arcane buffs.

Aerie
You don't necessary need one more melee char so she is a perfect support caster if you choose Nalia and not Imoen. Love triangle.

Jan Jansen
Specialist mage and a thief in one person. He has funny stories and good items. In the battle he is a decent mage and out the battle he is a very good thief.

Jaheira as Cleric/Ranger
Good quests and a romance. If she is in the party you get a Ring of Wizardry and some good item. She is decent tank and a good fighter.

The Viconia change is interesting, have never played a character like that through IA so wouldn't know for sure how it would fare. Jaheira R/C would certainlt trump it for power however Viconia could have her uses especially as a back up cast from scroll spell caster which would give her some interesting clerical arcane mixed buffs for tanking. Viccy is a valid option but not the most powerful, on balance I would go for Jaheira as the extra melee power will be invaluable but Viccy may be more fun.

There are plenty of good party compositions to play IA. Even your initial choice is a good one. Nonetheless, I offer some advices:

1- Don't tamper with bioware NPCs. If you want something new which is not there among them, create a custom NPC for yourself.

2- A berserker is one of the best fighter kits in IA. Your suggested weapon proficiencies for your berserker were: two-handed Sword, Halberd and Spear. I suggest to replace spear with quarter staff. Spear and halberd both inflict piercing damage. You need prificiency in blunt weapons too.


Keldorn's dispelling ability can be very useful, but having him in party is also double-edged. Enemy clerics will turn him. It is worth having him in the party though.



Yes, but I suggest to replace Haer'Dalis with a true warrior (Keldorn for example).



Imoen (as a sorcerer as she is in IA) is the most powerful arcane caster in the game. Nalia is not as powerful as Imoen; but one single arcane caster might be inadequate for you. I suggest to keep both of them. With Nalia in party you won't need any other thief. This is also an important point.

If you don't want to replace Haer'Dalis with Keldorn, keep him till spellhold and then replace him with Imoen.

EDIT: Viconia is evil. Don't use her at least in this game that you have a ranger protagonist.

Also, note that a wild mage is not a good choice; you may suddenly lose all of your money or may have a wild surge at a very inapproriate moment which can ruin your calculated tactics. It's a very powerful class (ridiculously and cheesily so), but it has its own dangers. Moreover, tactical experts surely prefer sorcerer to wild mage, because they prefer calculated tactics rather than relying on luck and random effects.

Viconia is evil but her romance is very interesting and she change her aligment in ToB if the PC is good.

I think the barbarians stouter than berserkers but this is my own opinion.

I think the blades are powerful in IA 5, they are very good tanks, decent fighters and decent casters too. The pickpocket and lore useful too.

@Sikret:

Why is the tamper of npc's forbidden? Is any bug source of it except they cannot use the IA item upgrades of their own items?
I think Minsc fits better as berserker or barbarian.
Jaheira fits better as ranger/cleric.
etc...

Some player love some npc but they don't like their class so change it something similar. You also did it with Valygar, Cernd and Imoen. The multiplayer npc-s boring the mod npcs sometime incompatible.

If the player doesn't want to see those quests which require 20 reputation, he can use her.

Both are very good. Barbarians have better resistances and more hp. Berserkers have better AC and better weapon proficiencies.



It's not forbidden (except for Keldorn); it's just safer not to tamper with them to avoid unexpected problems or inconsistencies.

Yes, it's more than that. I had explained it before, but here is it again:

- Changing Keldorn's class or kit will create serious bugs.
- Tampering with other Bioware NPCs will make their items unusable and dialogues inconsistent.
- Changing any of Bioware NPCs to vagrant may create minor bugs.
- Making illegal Protagonist (such as multi-class kitted vagrant/cleric) will certainly create bugs.



When I do it, I do it perfectly. I change all other things which need to be changed.

So if i understand correctly Minsc, Viconia's, Jaheira's, Edwin's, Korgan's, Yoshimo's and Aerie's class can be modify?

You are right the other npc's class is very fit to their personality.

What method do you suggest if somebody want to change?

Thanks for the advice. I have decided to tamper with Jaheira's and Minsc's classes anyway, because minor dialogue inconsistencies don't bother me; a Ranger/Cleric calling herself a Druid occasionally is acceptable, in my opinion. I have dropped the Viconia idea, not least due to the 20 rep issue, which I had just forgotten about. Next time, maybe.

Anyway, so far (approx. 300k XP) I have:

Vagrant
Minsc (Barbarian)
Anomen
Jaheira (R/C)
Nalia

Normally, I'd follow Sikret's advice to use both Nalia and Imoen at the drop of a hat; but in my last game, I used a very similar party composition (Valygar instead of Minsc and Jaheira unmodified) and felt the need for a proper arcane tank, or just generally more melee power. So right now the plan is to pick up Haer'Dalis ASAP, use Nalia until leaving for Spellhold, then take Yoshimo (for the extra XP in Chapter 6) and replace him with Imoen soon afterwards.

If I used Keldorn instead of Haer'Dalis, I would indeed feel better about two dedicated arcanists in the party, since he would be a considerable melee boost. However, not only can he apparently be turned, but I am unsure about the value of his Dispel Magic and True Sight: the former has been - quite rightly - nerfed, it seems, and anyway could create more problems than it solved in a game as buff-dependent as IA; meanwhile, True Sight will in IA often fail to affect those I most want it to affect, namely enemy mages. With his special abilites and Carsomyr tuned down, and an added liability to be turned, he seems sub-optimal.

So basically, what I am considering as Plan B is whether to use Keldorn OR Valygar instead of the Blade, thus 'allowing' me to take both Nalia and Imoen (instead of Jaheira, perhaps). Thoughts?

Then make a dualclassed Berserker-Mage. (S)he is a very good caster, perfect to secondary, or third spellcaster role, (S)he has Enrage, which is useful, especially immune to imprisonment!!!! (How often is imprisonment is IA?) weapons (STAFF!!!!! /Staff of Magi or ElementaL Staff/, Halberd /Dragon and Poseidon/, and 2 handed sword /Diamond, or Warlord/

That recommened(but not necessary) some management by Minsc to Axe (Volcano), Spear (Impaler in Whirwind??? Over 18 yeaR!!!)

@Zarathustra

Do you plan to play without a thief if you dismiss Nalia? It's possible, but have you thought about it?

@trufa

Zarathustra doesn't want to create custom multi-player NPCs; he wants to play with the existent ones (with some minor changes).

@ Sikret:

I realize that playing without a thief from Spellhold onwards can be inconvenient, but Imoen has Knock; after a certain point, trap disarming XP rather lose in importance; and every vanilla trap I know of can be countered with the right buff. Furthermore, Haer'Dalis allows me to pickpocket and my PC has stealth abilities, covering two minor issues. Even so, the prospective lack of a thief is one of the reasons I haven't made a final decision yet.


@ trufa:

You're right, of course, in that a Berserker -> Mage is very powerful; but as Sikret pointed out, I prefer to use Bioware NPCs (or occasionally well-developed mod NPCs, though not in IA).

Vaguely related question: Is it possible to keep Haer'Dalis from leaving the party and heading for the Five Flagons (and his doom)? He's already complained twice, but I'm certain that the Planar Prison is not an option for my party yet; neither do I want to spend most of Chapter 2 + 3 without him, for obvious reasons.

Somebody on this forum said to bring him to the Five Flagons (main floor) and he'll give a little speech but then he'll stop complaining from that point on.

In my current run through, I stashed the Portal Gem on a desk and Haer'Dalis stopped complaining. Do you still have it in your inventory?

Yes, I still have it. Thanks for the tip; I'll try stashing it somewhere.

(Going to the Five Flagons didn't stop his second complaint, so probably won't stop him from leaving.)

I was unsure whether I should start my own thread. As my question is also just another party composition question, I elected to stick it here. If that is the wrong thing to do, feel free to split it out.

As I said, I love experimenting with different group compositions. I’d like to know the opinion of the expert players of IA – you know who you are. My goal is to assemble a team that will make a no-reload game easiest to achieve.

My core group of vagrant hero, kensai Jan, and sorceress Tashia remains the same for now. If Jan gets mauled later on, I may consider some other class. A kensai did well in IA4.2, but IA5 is more difficult.

I’ve decided to ditch the wildmage. I must admit that I am somewhat uncomfortable with the great power of this class, even though it is of less consequence in IA than in the regular game. The wild surges have caused me some minor upsets early, but the reckless dwoemers have also made some battles easier. From experience, I know that I his magic will become more reliable as he levels. So, out of my team Xan goes.

I’m not sure about the other 3 positions. For the next 2 slots I am considering:

A: ranger 7-cleric Minsc and berserker Jaheira (trading Jaheira for sorceress Imoen); old school power here

B: berserker 7-cleric Anomen and auramaster Cernd; takes advantage of Sikret’s love of Cernd (items!), the auramaster kit, and Anomen’s shield (note: if kit stops use of shield, then kit will go)

C: ranger 7-cleric, thief 4-mage Nalia; that gives me a semi-adequate thief, and a decent wizard, at least after I can afford the ring upgrade; the wizard also allows the casting of many different spells, which can allow a tactical advantage over sorcerers in some battles

It’s too bad that both Anomen and Nalia’s voice tracks irritate me.

For the final slot, I’m considering ditching the blade, Haer’Dalis. The blade is undoubtedly extremely powerful in IA5; however, I’m not sure if I want to depend on the power of the blade if it will be going away in future versions (and much of its power will go away without PfMW and Mislead). I am considering exchanging Haer’Dalis for a berserker 9-mage in SoA and fighter-illusionist in ToB. Do you advise the blade, what I suggested as an alternative, or something else?

So experts, what do you advise as my party of 6.

Edited wildmage discussion for clarification. Additionally, just because I am not using the wildmage and thinking about not using the blade, doesn't mean that I'm in favor of them being nerfed. There's a wide sweep in skills in the players out there. I would like some options and avenues of play left open for the player to decide for themself what to do in their game. But that's just my opinion. Also, for clarification, I am basically using custom characters with created NPCs. That way I get what I want in the character, but get the banter too. My customization is very limited (as it must be) if there is a particular item that Sikret has created for the character that I want.

Raven, Sikret, Arkain, or any expert want to give an opinion of 3 characters to add to the vagrant, kensai, and sorceress?