Here I am, back for another round of punishment and self abuse. Anyway, my planned party (all created) is

Vagrant (flails as main weapon, axe or belm in offhand)
Sorcerer
Wizard (what would be a good specialist class for this character?)
Berserker (main tank, using shield with longsword/1 handed crushing weapon. All AC boosting items go to him)
Ranger/cleric
Cleric

Question, is the pureclass cleric really necessary? I choose her in anticipation of all the healing I'm going to need, but it would be great if I could throw in some melee capabilities as well.

2nd, I've been browsing the threads, and I notice the once popular f/m multi class does not have a place in many parties. What happened? Are they nerfed or something?

TIA for feedback!

I'd say that the wildmage is easily the best wizard. I don't think that you need a straight cleric. I think that the f/m multiclass remains strong.

So its

Vagrant (flails as main weapon, axe or belm in offhand)
Sorcerer
Wildmage
Berserker (Long swords/blunt weapon with shield. Main tank with all AC boosting items)
Ranger/cleric (hammer/clubs)

What would you guys suggest for the sixth character? Excluding bioware NPCs though. I was thinking a thief/fighter multiclass or a swashie for traps and locks

Also, if you guys could create all six NPCs as well, what would you consider the optimum party?

Hey, Mongerman

Would have to say as Sikret has said that the wildmage is probably not a good idea in IA. With the extremely tactical nature of the mod the extra unpredictability could cause real problems and the various unhelpful wild surges will just ramp up your re-load count. Personally I would give the second pure arcane caster a miss, one pureclass is suffecient. Instead I would suggest the use of a blade or other bard variant, post underdark they become the best buffer/de-buffer class in the game, and offer the enormously useful imp. bard song. Throughout the game they also offer good back-up casting and solid tanking ability. I would also put the true class cleric back in but give them a few levels of fighter then dual class, this character combined with the cleric buffs willl be a capable damage dealer for the majority of the game as well as in the long run only advancing very slightly slower than a pure-class cleric so you get early greater restoration and plenty of spell slots.

As for my optimum party I would go:

Vagrant: FoDW/JD
Fighter/Illusionist: Halberds/Staffs
Mage or Sorcerer: Staffs
Ranger/Cleric: Hammers
Beserker9/Cleric: Flail + Sheild
Blade: Various weapons, Bards armour

The vagrant, F/I, R/C and Cleric can all dish good melee damage, you have acess to three strong arcane casters two of which have acess to lvl 9 spells while the third has acess to permanent aura cleansing and a very high caster lvl for remove magic etc. In adition you have two competent healers and several characters that can produce enough buffs to make them a very difficult prospect to bring down.

Agree with rbevejr, no need another cleric beside ranger/cleric. I suggest you to dual ranger at start (lvl7) to cleric, so he won't be too far from others in level, and he will get extra half attack, all druid spells and many weapons skills.
If you are looking for 6th member, I think you have 2 really good choices:
1. Get a blade, f/m, f>m or f/i as tank. I think blade is the best. Multiclass is a bit nerfed since they will get HLAs later. You can swap fighter to kensai/berserker if you chose dual. In this case I would swap weapon proficiencies in your group. like this (in this order to max. it):
vagrant: flails/clubs/axes/long swords
berserker: halberds/2 handed swords/staffs
ranger/cleric: clubs/maces/hammers
blade or f/m: katanas-short swords/scimitars/any other weapon

2. If you want to keep your berserker as tank (I think pure AC is not enough for tanks in IA, especially not in high end game), then I would recommend any warrior type char with 2 handed weapons. 2 handed weapons, especially halberds are really powerfull in endgame, and you can get good halberd/2handed sword at early point of the game. Or maybe you can try berserker/druid dual with spears and staves, but I think it is too big loss if you don't have halberd user.

Welcome back, Mongerman!



Probably not 100% necessary, but I still recommend it. You won't have access to "Greater Restoration" soon enough if all of your clerics are multi-class.

Either Sorcerer or Necromancer. I don't recommend wild Mage.



They are still powerful but not as powerful as they uded to be. Reasons:

(1) They progress slower than before due to the new level progression tables.

(2) They gain HLAs much later than in the vanilla.

(3) There are certain powerful items which are only usable by single class mages and/or single class warriors. Hence, an F/M can't use any of them.

Happy gaming!

Pure AC is no longer that efficient? I remember that having high AC in earlier versions was a very good tactic. Has that changed?

Perhaps I'll make some changes then

1. Vagrant (FOD&W/Axe or belm)
2. Berserker (halberd and staff if high ac tanking is really no longer that effective)
3. R/C multi
4. R/C dual (should I dual at 7 or 9?)
5. Sorc
6. Blade

The blade with def spin and protection magic should be a good tanker, while the r/c dual will be the high AC tank. Since he cant dish out dmg as quickly as the others, he might as well be taking it.

It hasn't changed. Good AC can save your skin in various circumstances.

Thanks for the quick reply. In my past IA experience, my high ac tanker was also my main physical dmg dealer, which ensured that none of the monsters could take their attention off him=). Knowing how smart enemies are in IA, I'm afraid that if my high ac tank was doing negligible dmg, the enemies would simply focus on another character.

Couple more questions

1) When you say JD is usable by warriors, does that refer to fighter kits only, or does it include rangers, paladins etc?
2) Whats so great about halberds? Yes I've seen the description for dragon lord, and its great, but so are JD, FOD&W. Not to mention that piercing is prob the most resisted dmg in IA (correct me if i'm wrong). I remember in my past IA runs, I had an archer that was great at disrupting mages, but simply took a backseat against more powerful enemies

JD sword is single class warrior (ranger, paladin, kits etc.) only.
About AC: of course AC is still important factor in fights. I just wanted to say that in HARD fights against hard enemies, pure AC is not enough imho. Lets see some examples:
I have just killed Conster. He was a hard fight for me, because I didn't have lvl 7 spells for Ruby Ray, and I had only 1 scroll of it. So I had to endure out his SI, and those skeleton lords hit very hard even against -12 AC, what else, they were able to hit down Stoneskins from my blade with -20 AC defensive spin on.
In 4.2 in EDE or high end battles, the max. -24 AC is not enough, enemies can hit you many times without too much problem.
This is why I said, pure AC is not enough sometimes. Of course AC is important factor even in hard fights. To tell the truth, I always would use two weapons instead of weapon+shield, unless I need some special from shield, or unless I see that +4-5 AC will make my char almost unhittable. 2 weapons with Impr. Haste means +2 attack per round, and with good weapons and high strength, that is good damage per round...
Anyway, if you have blade, you don't need high AC tank. Cast Spirit Armor on blade, cast Melf's Minute Meteor, so you can attack from far with a very good damage per round rate. Then Stonekin, Mirror Image, Blur, Defensive Spin makes him the best tank... If I prepare with my blade, I can reach -24 AC with Def. Spin even at early part of the game. Sadly Mirror Image and Blur are useless many times, since all of the opponents cast True Sight. They are very good against golems btw, when no enemy spellcaster is there. I found Impr. Invis useless for similar reasons: enemies have True Sight always, SI: Div. doesn't work since enemies are much higher level than may chars, so a simple Remove Magic dispel all on my chars. And I cannot heal my own Impr. Invis character also with my cleric, so Impr. Inv. is more problem then what I gain from it. So imho illusion school became very weak and will be more weaker when Mislead out. But this is another topic, sorry for offtopic.

As shadan correctly mentioned, it's usable by single class rangers and paladins as well.

I'm afraid, I should correct you here. Piercing damage is not worse than other types of damage. Some particular creatures are even more vulnerable to piercing than to other damage types.



Two points:

(1) "Peircing" damage is not the same as "Missile" damage. They are two different damage types.

(2) In v5, even resistance to missile damage is not so frequent that it was in previous versions. We have sought and implemented other methods to block the cheesy hit&run methods with ranged weapons in v5.

Admittedly, missile damage is still the least effective damage type against most enemies, though there are some certain foes which are more vulnerable to missile damage than other types of damage.

As for good AC and its importance, naturally, when you proceed to TOB and start to meet the most powerful enemies in the game, the protective value of good Ac diminishes. It's the same even in the vanilla game.

About halberds: if you max. out 2handers with 1 fighter, you can always switch to 2handed sword or Staff of the Ram, when enemy immune to piercing. But there are enemies which immune to slashing for example, and most vulnerable to piercing. I think piercing resist is decreased in latest versions of IA. But halberds are important because they can make you immune to the 2 mostly used high level AE spells: Abi Dalzim and Dragon Breath... It is a lifesaver if your dispelled fighter can be protected against these spells. And Dragon Breath's has very good damage also. What else, you can get good halberds in all stage of the game. And my last comments: as a fighter it is much easier to max. out 5* in halberds, 2hander style, and 2handed sowrds, and still you left some points in staves. If you want to use dual wield, that is more weapon skills, 1 more point in dual wield, and you probably want to use different weapon types in the 2 hands because there are not 2 good high end weapon from 1 type. For example JD sword+Axe, or JD sword+Hammer of Thor etc. And if you calculate damage types also, to be ensure your character can do at least 2 damage types from the 3, and you calculate with weapon choice of other characters in your party, then I think it is much harder to max. out a dual wielder fighter than a 2hander one.

Just like to mention on the halberds front that a F/M with Dragon Lord and Poseidons Wrath is a an enormously useful character able to be immune to the most damaging of mage spells as well as fear and able to keep up a good set of combat protections this character becomes very hard to take down and with GWW he dishes it out pretty well too. Personally I prefer this to a true fighter as my two hander as this way I get two pips in staves/halberds and swords so can switch when appropriate.

Plus you do want at least one halberd user as the only high level piercing weapons are halberds and your going to want those in many circumstances for example being able to take down a coin golem in a couple of rounds is quite a useful skill.

@Mongerman

Don't forget to use/install the fix files I have uploaded before starting your game. They are not strictly necessary as they fix just a few non-critical bugs, but installing them is recommended. You can find their complete list (with the appropriate links) here.

Thanks for all the help and feedback guys. I think I'll go with this party

Vagrant.

Start with flails for FOA, and FOD&W endgame. Prob belm or kundane in offhand, to be replaced with either axe or longsword endgame

Sorcerer

Nuff said. Though it would be good if someone could provide a link to a good spell selection in IA

Ranger/Cleric Multi Class
I choose ranger instead of fighter for ironskins, and cleric instead of mage, since melee rules in IA =). Start with club for blackblood, will end up using hammer.

Ranger/cleric Dual at 7
Tank 1. Will be focused on defense (> -24AC)rather then offense. Will use whatever weapon happens to be at hand. With buffs should be able to hold the enemy's attention. My worry is that the enemy will attack whomever is dealing the most dmg instead of him/her. Can someone verify this? I was also wondering, would a berserker be better for rage and weapon mastery? Trade-off is of cos ironskins.

Blade
Tank 2. With def spin and spells, should be able to tank for awhile. Main role is still supportor.

Half-orc kensai with maxed str and con
I always went with a berserker in previous games, as the -2 ac and immunities were crucial for my main tank. However, now that I have 2 tanks, a pure dmg dealer is an attractive idea. He would use staffs/halberds to attack from behind my tank. Sounds good in theory, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Just don't forget tp pick the following low level spells. You can't go wrong the rest:

First level: Larloch's Minor Drain
Third Level: Vampiric Touch
Fourth level: Emotion, Stoneskin, Ray of Fragmentation (in that order)

I (for one) would prefer a second sorcerer or even a swashbuckler dualled to mage for sure (do you want to take the damage of all traps and ingore the xp you can gain by disarming them and opening locks?). But since blades have lots of fans here, I won't discourage you anymore. You can replace your blade with Imoen in spellhold, of course. She is a sorceress now.



I would still prefer Berserker for his enrage and also the ability to wear heavy armor. Your Kensai will probably require lots of baby-sitting and micro-management specially at the early stages of the game. But yes, the additional offensive power is undeniable.

Man I was so engrossed in creating a well balanced party that I totally forgot about thieving skills! What level would you dual your swashie at? Or perhaps even a f/m/t to replace the bard?

Since the best armor etc etc is going to my main tank, the kensai might as well be naked. As I recall, for AC, it was either going to the highest, or just ignoring it, since enemies are going to hit you at -10 ac anyway

Easy way to get the thieving skills would be a swashy/fighter dual instead of the kensai, no casting ability and poor AC will surely make the Kensai far too vulnerable against improved melee enemies. There is plenty of good armour to go around and this character will have the bonus of a few extra points of AC from the swashy. Hp may be a problem but with high con not cripplingly so. I would as always suggest keeping the bard but Sikrets swashy mage is also a good call.

The best defense for the kensai the spirit armor. With 18 dex (it is easy to reach with half orc) his AC go down to -4 without protection equipment and he get -3 bonus his spell save (this was the first spell what i choose for my sorc after the beginning two, but this is only my opinion and choice).

I think the best dual to swashy is level 10 but in IA this is too sucks because the dual process is too long. I think dual after the first dungeon. Or choose Swashy->Cleric or Swashy->Mage if you want a thief.

I concede (as I have elsewhere) that unpredictability of the wildmage can be problematic early on. I would never play a wildmage if that was my only arcane. However, before he gets his first HLA, the wildmage will be more powerful than the sorcerer when used correctly.

I played a kensai hero through IA 4.2. It wasn't easy. He had to hide during the Twisted Rune. The offensive power of the kensai is appealing, but he does require a little extra attention to keep alive.

You might want to consider the party that Sikret is using. Then if you have problems, the hints that Sikret provides for battles could be particularly useful. My own party is similar enough to Sikret's that I expect that information to be valuable if I run into a roadblock. (Thanks for those posts, Sikret!)

f/m/t will proceed too slowly. If you want to pick a mutti-class thief, go for F/T.

Alternatively, if you want a swashbuckler dualled to mage, so what Ryel said: Either dual him to mage immediately after starting the game or dual at level 10.



Well, if AC is no concern here, I would suggest a half-orc barbarian:

(1) Better hp (Barbarians roll d12 for their hp)
(2) Resistance to physical damage
(3) Much better AC than Kensai
(4) Barbarian Rage

@rbeverjr

The main problems with Wild Mage in IA are two things:

(1) You may suddenly lose all of your money near the end of a hard battle. Since money is a big concern in IA; you will either have to reload and do that hard battle again or will have to live with the fact that you have no golds.

(2) Someof the battle in IA are similar to chess matches where every step is calculated. A sudden wild surge (even a generally useful one) may lead to disaster if the exact spell which you intend to cast at that time is replaced with something else.

I have had the money loss thing happen to me before. It's one of the worst outcomes possible. However, I honestly am not such a good player as to be able to do IA without reloads. So, a reload in such a situation does not bother me. Improved Chaos Shield + high level = very (not always) consistent results. In my opinion, at high level the advantages of the wild mage make it worthwhile to play even in IA. Heh, everyone is allowed their opinion. But as I previously stated, I wouldn't bother having a wild mage if it was my only spell caster. Even at low level, you need a spell slinger that you can depend on.

Kundane doesn't grant an extra attack in v.5.0 so you probably don't want to waste any pips on SS. I was really disappointed too. I guess Sikret felt like changing the item to match the description instead of changing the description to match the item. It does grant +1 Dex now but that sucks compared to the +1 APR.

Thanks for the warning Vardaman. Would have been mighty irritated to put points into swort sword and then realise I wont end up using kundane