Weapon type analysis

I think good weapon types those which provide at least a simple +3 weapon in chapter 2 or 3, and a very good weapon in the endgame. Best weapon types which gives an unique +3 weapon in chapter 2 and 3, not only simple +3 one. Lets check all of them. (Pls note, maybe I don’t know each weapons.)

Weapon types with available unique +3 weapon in chapter 2 and 3:
Axes: Very solid type. Frostreaver comes very early, and has a nice elemental damage bonus. You can even by an Axe of Hrothgar for dual wield, but sadly its bonuses is not too good. Stonefire is randomized. Volcanic Axe, Axe of Unyielding are good endgame weapons.
Flails: One of the best weapon type. FoA+3 comes without any cost, and not too hard to get it. You can forge Phosphorous realatively early, which is a very very good weapon. FoA+5 can be good endgame weapon. Sadly its innate free action prevents its holder from Impr. Haste, so I would use only in battles where free action is important. FoD&W is one of the best weapon, sadly ranger only.
Halberds: Another example for the best weapon type. Harmonium Halberd is not cheap, but you can buy it early, and that +1 Strength is great. You can get a very good halberd in Underdark. And there are 3 weapons for endgame: Poseidon’s Wrath, Dragon Lord, Ravager are all very good weapons.
Spears: Good weapon. Spear for Kuldahar is expensive, but you can buy it early and it has nice bonus hitpoints. Ixil’s Spike is good endgame weapon.
Two-handed Swords: It is not too hard to get Lilalcor and you can buy Joril’s Dagger also. In endgame there are Gram the Sword of Grief, Holy Avanger (for paladins), Silver Sword, Warlord’s Blade.
Scimitars: You can buy Kachiko’s Wakizashi or Scarlet Ninja-to from a bonus merchant, which are good +3 weapon at start even as they are not cheap. Belm is good, but it has only +2 enchantment... Spectral Band is good endgame weapon.
Clubs: Very good choice at start, since you can buy Blackblood early, you can get club+3 from beastmaster, and you can forge the wonderful Treefolk’s Arm very soon. Rhymed Club would be great, sadly it comes a bit late. Sadly no valid choice for clubs in endgame.

Weapon types with simple +3 available weapon in chapter 2 and 3:
Short Sword: Short Sword of Backstabbing is a good simple +3 weapon, and easy to get it. Arbane’s Sword and Ilbratha has good specials even they are not +3 weapons. Cutthroat and Short Sword of Mask are good endgame weapons.
Staves: Easy to get a Cleric Staff early, which is a normal +3 staff. Staff of Rynn is randomized. Sadly improved staffs (Elemental Staff and Golem Slayer) are mage only, so they don’t count really), but still left Staff of the Ram for the endgame, which is good weapon.

Weapon types with no available+3 weapon in chatper 2 and 3:
Bastard swords: Sadly no good b. sword in early game. Foebane and Purifier are great weapons in endgame. Death of A Thousand Cuts +4 can be valid weapon at middle game (I don’t know where is the 48 sided garnet btw. )
Daggers: Only available +3 special dagger is the Prixie Prick is in Planar Prison, one of the hardest doable prespellhold quest. Grandfather of Assassins +5 is a very good endgame weapon.
Long swords: I think Blade of Roses is randomized. If not, long swords go to previous group, since it is an expensive normal +3 weapon, its charisma bonus is not so good in fights btw. In endgame, The Answerer, Hesperus and The Truth are great, and JoD is the best weapon, sadly it is single class warrior only.
Maces: Sadly no good mace in early game. Mace of Disruption is not bad against undeads, but counts only as +1 weapon. Its improved version would be nice, but it counts only as +2 weapon as far as I know. I think it would deserve to be able to hit as +3 weapon. I really don’t know if it can hit and possible kill any undead which requires +3 or better weapon to hit... Storm Star+5 is normal endgame weapon.
Katanas: There is no good early game and good endgame katana. Hindo’ Doom is +4 only, and you probably use up Celestial Fury in upgrade. I suggest katanas only for bards and fighter/mages since Dak’kon’s Zerth Blade has good spell bonuses, although it is +2 only.
Warhammer: One of the best choice for endgame cause of Hammer of Thor and Runehammar dualwield. Sadly no good hammer earlier... Even warhammer +4 vs. giants counts as +1 weapon.

Why did I write down this all? Because of fighters. Other classes can spend only * or ** star on a weapon type, so they can easily can use at least 2 type of weapons at start, and another 2 of them later at max. efficiency. Even multiclass fighters also. But if you want to play fighter, the only advantage of him the ***** weapon proficiency. Sadly fighters don’t get more *, so at start you probably can use 1 weapon as *****, or 2 weapon as **, beside weapon styles. Even at endgame, you can max. only 2 types. So fighters must chose carefully. Imho the best weapons for fighters are 2hander ones, since all of them has good starter and endgame weapon. 2handed style is cheaper than dual wielding. And you can chose all damage type from 2handed version.
Dual wielder fighters have a very hard choice, since they have to chose those type of weapons, which have at least 2 good early weapon, 2 good end weapon, and preferably they have different damage type. Best weapons for dualwield are: flails, axes, short swords, scimitars. Clubs are good at start, but not at endgame. And sadly there are a couple of weapons, like hammers, daggers, long and bastard swords, maces which are very weak at start. What else, the best single class warrior weapon is long sword, and it doesn’t have valid choice in early game. But I think katanas are the worst, it is useful only for Valygar.

I wanted to do a halfling fighter/thief with hammer and daggers, since Hammer of Thor + Grandfather of Assassins seemed as good combination. Sadly no good hammers and daggers at start, and as a dualwielder fighter you cannot max. out 3 weapon types.

Of course, you can forge +3 weapons at Cromwell (long and bastard sword, dagger, but no hammer or mace). Sadly these are expensive, and weaker then some unique +3 weapon from other types. So it would be good to do
1. more choice for these (hammers, daggers, long and bastard swords, maces) at start. (Maybe improved Mace of Disruption could be hit as +3weapon).
2. good endgame club.
3. improve katanas selection.

Very good analysis, shadan! Thank you.

Just one small point:



Scarlet Ninja-to is not with the mechant anymore. If you found it with the merchant, it must be due to a local problem in your game. Check again please and let me know the result.

Also the fact that a weapon is not in its vanilla location does not mean it has been randomised; some weapons have a definite location in IA, just not where it used to be.

Good point, Raven!

I'm in chapter 2 right now and I've come across more +3 weapons with special bonuses than the regular +3 enchanted weapons that have no additional bonuses. It's the same for +2 weapons, more rare ones than regular ones.

I think that placing a few more regular +2 enchanted weapons and perhaps a few more +3 regular weapons would not be a bad thing. Especially considering the fact that Spellhold becomes tougher and some improved monsters require a certain enchantment from weapons before they cause damage.

I feel that some regular +3 weapons aren't necessarily bad since if they have no additional bonuses then they're not always better than their +2 or +1 counterparts that do have additional bonuses (such as spell abilities or immunities).

It'd be nice to see some upgrades for Maces. There are no +3 ones to be found in chapter 2 or 3 and few good ones besides Star Storm mace which doesn't really become decent until ToB.

It'd also be nice to have Cromwell be able to upgrade a vanilla Hammer +2 to a +3 with 15K and scrolls of enchanted weapon and Permanency.

I would place one simple +4 weapon in Spellhold or Brynnlaw.

SPOILER!


Maybe Sikret could write somesort of Hint in the readme that +4 weapons are required in impr Spellhold
Gorwath

The readme says that Spellhold will be more difficult (on top of being improved) if you delay too long before travelling there. Players cannot expect escaping the asylum to be at all easy if they do too many quests in chapter 2.

In general I think it's best that the readme does not mention specific hints about what weapons you'll need etc.

then how should someone know that he will need a +4 weapon to even have a chance to play the game further?
I just don't think you can assume that if someone does the impr Spellhold that he also has a +4 weapon with him.

I am just trying to help prevent frustration due to some minor issue that can be solved without major complications

I agree with that. Another simple change would be to make those particular monsters susceptible to +3 weapons. They are more common in chapter 2 and 3.

Checked Scarlet Ninja-to, and it is not buyable. My bad, sorry.
I hope this topic helps to make some conclusion what weapons need a little upgrade.

As for Improved Spellhold and the possible need for +4 weapons, there are a few points:

1- Mordenkainen Swords and Greater Swanmays are equipped with +4 weapons; so, it's not completely impossible to defeat those monsters if you have not forged +4 weapons. The delay to go to spellhold means that you are already relatively high level to have access to those powerful summoned creatures, eh?

2- Phosphorus +4 and Tree Folks' Arm are relatively easy to forge in chapter 3. You may even find some randomized +4 weapons in chapter 3 if have spent much time there doing more and more quests.

3- I have made some changes and modifications to the situations under which you will face monsters who require +4 weapons for the next version of the mod as you can read in the progress report thread. Hadn't I told you to revisit that topic frequently?

I agree with Raven that the readme should not be too specific about such details.

I'm also going to send a new post in the "New 6th level spell" thread which may be relevant to this issue.