Hi all,

Our tests proved that Simulacrum spell is almost as cheesy as PI and must be replaced with a new spell. Of course, it's not as bad as Project Image, but it's still too cheesy. You can use items (Rod of Resurrection, scrolls, etc...) in the clone's quick slots without consuming the items' charges. Hence, for example, you can have infinite healing with the rod.

So, please give us your votes and comments about what kind of new spell you prefer to see.

Cheers

I voted for a gated in creature, as I think it'll fit very well into the magespellbook, I don't think a new conjured creature vulnerable to deathspells is needed.

How about Mind Blank? It's an 8th level Wizard spell in PnP, here's the PHB entry:

There are plenty of summon and gating spells I think. You already have Summon Fiend at level 8 and he performs quite well.

I voted for the improved Tensers Transformation because I welcome an additional incentive to experiment with melee-oriented mages. They have nice weapons available but often don't see melee range because Tenser's disables spellcasting so you cannot rebuff yourself. In hindsight, maybe it's better to change the original Tenser's Transformation into the one suggested (lower duration, allow spellcasting).

I can think of some other suggestions.
- A high level cold damage area of effect spell (as opposed to all the fire spells and there is already a nice chain lightning skill... Chain Frost?)
- An upgraded Greater Malison spell, no save, only affects 1 targeted creature, all saves by that creature incur a penalty of -4 (would allow proper usage of all those low level spells which have negative saves, i.e. those that can be completely negated by a successful save). Duration quite short though... 5-10 rounds?
- Multi purpose spell which lowers armor, thac0 and damage by 3 on a singular creature (cripples non-caster opponents somewhat).

I like the Mind Blank idea, which also has the advantage of being available in Icewind Dale - so is already represented in an IE game.

Also like the "upgraded Malison" spell idea.

Less keen on summons, they would certainly have to be gated, but even so, it's pretty easy for anything summoned to get chunked in a matter of a few seconds in IA.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

@Iroumen:

Chain Frost was a nice idea. I will consider it as an option.

As for G Malison, Even the ordinary Greater Malison deosn't require the target to roll a saving throw and it does eveything you mentioned. So, I don't see in what respect your suggested spell is an "Improved" version of GMalison. The 4th level G Malison doesn't bypass MR though; so, If you want an improved version, you should probably suggest a version which bypasses MR.


As for Mind Blank, it's not suitable for IA. Apart from the absurdly long duration, most of the immunties the spell grants are easily available via lower level spells such as Chaotic Commands or SI. Most of them can be even gained by drinking a potion of Clarity! And if you suggest that I make the spell's effects undispellable, then it will turn to be overpowered considering its long duration. Of course, the duration can be shortened, but in general, I'm looking for an offensive spell not a defensive one.

I believe an improved version of TT is the best option.

It will help very much the pure Arcane spell casters and will be a very useful spell for IA.

Yes I like the idea of a spell dealing cold damage is a good idea (or acid but probably this would become overpowered too easily since many creatures in IA are weaker against acid).

But any direct-damage dealing spell must contend with ABHW. There would have to be a good reason to pick the new spell (e.g. ignores MR, secondary slowing/freezing effect).

But isn't there a danger that an Improved TT which allows spell casting/increases #attacks etc. could make F/M type characters even more powerful?

If it sets the THAC0/AC etc of the mage to that of a similar level fighter, then casting it could potentially make F/M types weaker in terms of their fighting ability (If they are higher in level in the fighter class, that is).

Yes, I was mistaken. I thought Greater Malison only lowered saves by 2, but it's indeed 4. I guess that suggestion can go to the bin unless it's a save penalty of 8 and bypasses MR, but that would maybe be too harsh for IA. I'll stick to my suggestion for a Cold spell though

Mhm... the improved TT seems to be quite nice. But my vote would be for a new (area effect) spell which deals acid damage. Or cold - although you could use Cone of Cold for that matter.

IIRC (don't have access to the game right now), it is as Stu said for the THACO. It will set it according to the Mage level, so probably it will become worse.

For sure it will not increase the ApR of a F/M, but probably he will get a bonus to HPs and AC (though these bonuses are not so great for a F/M anyway).

IMO the Simulacrum spell is more useful for a F/M than an improved version of TT, so it's not a problem of making F/Ms more powerful.

There are very few cold and acid sources fro the mage. It's a toss-up which one would suit IA best. These are the ones currently in the game.

Cold
- Chill Touch. Only for very low levels.
- Cone of Cold. Can hurt your party and has a very short cone range, (1d4+1) damage per level. (Very tough to aim and use without hurting the party)
- Ice Storm. Area damage, 2d8 each round for only 4 rounds.

Acid
- Melf's Acid Arrow. 2d4 damage for every 3 levels of the caster (extra damage applied in the following round(s))
- Death Fog. Area damage, 8 damage per round for 1 turn

Poison Damage
- Cloudkill. Area damage, 1d10 damage each round for 1 turn

IIRC Chromatic Orb deals acid damage as well.

Well there is also a +2 to hit and damage bonus applied after the THAC0 change, which is why a F/M still benefits from TT at higher levels (and this benefit would be great if you could continue to renew your PfMW while it was active).

But I agree that the loss of Simulacrum hurts F/M more than the addition of improved TT would help them.

Shatter Resistance [Fire or Cold or Acid or Lightning]
Transmutation

The targets resistance of the chosen type is reduced by half.
If the creature is immune or absorband to the chosen type nothing happens.

This spell dispells protection from (lightning,fire,...)
--

Divine Weakness
Divination

After targeting a creature the following information is known to the casters.
-Lowest physical resistance of the target.
-Lowest elemental resistance of the target.
-Magic resistance of the target.
-Spell levels the target is immune to.

--

Agannzars Freezer

Like Aganzars scorcher but more and cold damage... and blue^^.

I like the ideas on the lowering resistences and the acid and cold attacks.

The summoning spell will be excellent if it will upgrade with the levels of the caster.
Like new undead or golems or some type of a new IA monster.

A new idea is a control golem spell.

Maybe instead of one spell Sikret can add a lot more spells.That will make pure class mage or sorcerer a lot
more fun.

I would like to try out a melee-oriented mage; so, I vote for improved Tenser's. (That is unless you will allow us to gate in an ice golem ) Please provide a weapon for the mages that will enable them to be very effective in combat. You may have already done so - I haven't paid that close attention as I never wanted my mages in melee before. Perhaps one of those improved staves will work. I'm sure that I'll quickly run out of the touch spells that are supposed to be effective; so, I want to carry a big stick too.

PS I'd love it if Sikret would apply his skills to NWN2. That game is even easier than BG2 was to those who have never played it. And the eye candy in NWN2 is fabulous compared to BG2. It's almost like an interactive movie.

I really like Exor's idea for lowering certain elemental resistances.

How about a spell which summons a team of creatures: An Ultra Golem, two Elemental golems, three Ice golems and say, 4 Ghost Spiders?!

But seriously, if we take the summoning idea, the summoned creature needs to be weaker than a planetar, but better than a mordenkainen sword (which makes it rather difficult to design). Of course, the fact that it won't be affected by Death Spell is already a big advantage over the magical sword.


Yes, they will work just fine, specially the Golem Slayer which is also improved in v4.3 (though its recipe is also changed and it is more difficult to forge; it's also changed to be usable only by single class mages, so even Nalia can't use it though Imoen can).

PS: Guys, please don't suggest any spell which lowers damage or elemental resistances; I assure you that it's a bad idea (specially because if I add such a spell, I should also script enemies to use it on you and there is a good chance that the game will not become any easier; moreover, some important creatures must be immune to it and you will return to complain why the spell doesn't work on this or that boss.)

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How about a spell which summons a team of creatures: An Ultra Golem, two Elemental golems, three Ice golems and say, 4 Ghost Spiders?!

[/quote]

That's a good idea.Haven't thought about it.

Maybe such a summoning spell could be a 9th level and will be level dependent.I think it would be balanced since
lots of creatures can summon golems.

Enemy dragons use 'lower fire resistance' type spells. I just recently finished my very first IA run and elemental immunities of some monsters really bugged me. A spell to lower some resistance would be cool! Not something insanely powerful, but even a drop of %10-20 will enable us poor mages to contribute to the damage done to a boss (or golem!). Otherwise it is just throwing Energy Blades and even then, I miss most of the time!

If you go with the summoning idea, I'd like a gated Mord's sword, which has a bit better THACO than the normal sword (and/or more HP). I would consider that to be a very useful summons. (Of course, I will hate that summoning spell when the enemy magician horde starts spamming them on me. So, I still prefer the improved Tensers.)

Planetars get munched on in Improved Anvil. I like them as much for their spells as for cannon fodder.

Don't say things which are not true, Roy!

How many enemies have you met in the entire game who can summon golems greater than Gem and Amber? You may cause panic in players who have not played the mod completely yet. You know that I hate nothing more than false rumors about IA.

This is largely true but it certain situations they are still useful IMO - especially if you buff them properly with Improved Haste, Improved Invisibility and Protection from Magic Energy. With the I. Haste they get 7 apr with THAC0 -8. This combined with their immunity to +2 or lower weapons makes them useful sometimes, as I said. There is at least one tough IA creature which you meet right up to the end of the game which only has a +2 weapon.

I agree that Planetars are useful. I just don't depend on them to actually kill very many of Sikret's creations. If they actually kill something, that's a pleasant surprise for me. Planetars are useful in other ways - distractions, spell casting, occasionally damaging foes, etc.

I liked the Simulacrum because the summon improves as the caster. The Simulacrum couldn't be remplaced by a mage with determinated spells and abilities in order to prevent cheesy methods?

Perhaps an improved version of Wizard's eye - invisible (via 100th opcode - protection from creature type) and capable of True seeing. Though I'm not sure if such a spell can be more useful than say Spell trigger or ADHW.

If it means more work for you then no objections from me, but aren't IA's creatures already immune to some spells, Lower resistance and Cloud-like spells in particular? Besides, what's wrong with having more enemies than Noble efreet and Ice golem (I've played quite time ago and not sure if there are others) lowering party's resistances? That would be hardly a difference in difficulty imo.

Quite a few other powerful enemies I can think of lower elemental resistances - Noble Marilith, all the Red Dragons, certain Balors and so on. IMO it's one of the nastiest abilities in the game and I've always found the battles with such enemies the most difficulty. The mod really would be horribly difficult if enemy mages also lowered resistances.

Plus the ability to lower resistances in the game could easily become unbalancing - since there are far more fire spells than any other element, strategies would begin to revolve around lowering fire resistances and then just attacking with fire spells - there's a danger of many of the other elements just becoming irrelevant.

I think a solution to this would be to make the debuff non-stackable. For example, you could reduce the enemies max resistance by 5-10% total. It doesn't sound like much(because it isn't) but it's still potent enough to be very useful in such a mod like IA.

I wouldn't like new summon spell. There are plenty of them and most of them useless cause of ultimate killer Death Spell. Anyway all high spell has a summon spell, don't need more.
I wouldn't like a new Tenser type spell also. A mage should be a MAGE not a fighter. If I play mage, I want to kill enemies by my spell.
Another cold/acid/poison spell would be fine, but sadly there is an Aby Dalzim and very hard to do better spell for lvl 8. I would like another AE dmg spell at other lvl, not at lvl 8.
Mass lower save / lower MR / lower elmental res would be my first choice. It would be fine to use my lower lvl spells also in fights, in IA I can't use almost any spell in fight below 5, cause of insane MR and saves at enemies. I would prefer a mass lower MR spell for a very short duration, like 1 round / every 5 lvl. This could help me to cast Greater Malison, Slow, Emotion etc. Even Spell Sequencer could be useful. Now, I can't really use it. "1-2 Magic Missile-1-2 Flame Arrow", Greater Mal-Emotion-Slow" all useless cause of MR and insane saves. I tried 3 Vampiric Touch, but it said "no legal target for this spell" when I stood next to the enemy.
Also a mass lower MR would be free some lvl 5 spell slot, which is overloaded with lot of Breach, Sunfire, SI etc.

So my spell would be like this:
Casting time: 8
Range: visual
Area: 30' radius
Duration: 1 round / 5 level
Save: No
Magic Resistance: No
Effect:
Version 1: Lower enemies magic and elemental (fire, cold, lightning, acid, magical energy) resistance with 3%/lvl. Not stackable with himself or Lower resistance.
Version 2: Lower magic and elemental (fire, cold, lightning, acid, magical energy) resistance with 1%/lvl. Stackable with all other similar spell and himself.

If this too strong, it could be not party friendly, so some tactic should be need before casting.

Alternatively I would like any other spell which would cripple 1 or more enemies. THACO, dmg, AC and saving penalty. This would help melee character also, but better to cast this for me with a PURE mage then just sitting at back, or doing melee with Tenser. Of course to be usefull, it should ignore magic resistance, but save could negate or halve it. Although it is a divine spell type imho, not arcane.

I will not add a lower resistance type spell. So, please leave that option out and concentrate on other possible options.

Thanks in advance.

First of all congratulation for this mod, much respect for the quantity and quakity of your work (This mod REALLY IS about tactics, to my great distress sometimes ) I really enjoy it, even though I might be older than most of you.

what about a "retaliation"spell ; half damages taken for spell caster, 10% of damages back to each attacking creature, no save and ignore resistance of the attacker, duration 3 rounds?

Another idea would be a "elemental attack" spell adding elemental damage to caster weapon attack (cold, acid, fire or poison, type of damage to choose when casting it just like school for SI, 1D4 elem dmg per hit every 6 levels of the caster) for a couple of rounds (1 every 6 levels of the caster?)
This mainly because I miss very often good cold or acid attacks against some foes....

Last one (but not sure about its real interest) a " lesser alacrity" working only with lvl 1 to 6 spells (any 7+ spell casting attempt breaks it)

hope this is not too ridiculous a proposal

How about a beefed up version of Magic Missles with a cap of 12 missles? Each missle can do 1d8 magic and 1d8 blunt damage.
Since it is a level 8 spell, it can bypass globes of invulnerability. With the additional blunt damage, it can eat through stoneskins!

12 x 2d16 = 24-192 damage? Kind of a high max damage even if it is conditional, but it's a nice idea. I thought magic missile could already swat stoneskin.

24-192 damage is correct yes (12 x 2d8).
I don't think the max damage is too high no.

Consider ADHW is 20d8, doesn't harm allies, and is big AOE!

Magic missile inflicts damage through stoneskins, but I don't think it actually removes the skins in the process.

Isn't there some mordokainens missiles in IWD 2? Couldn't they be applied as 8th level spell? Still I like the gated in creature, not touched by death spells.

Yes, that's the idea. More utility minded with higher spell level, dual damage types, and higher missle # cap.

I remembered that they did, but it could just be my foggy memory. I know they dispel mirror images, just at the moment not too certain about stoneskins (or ironskins).

In PnP each missile eats 1 stoneskin. I think this is not true in BG2.

2 contenders:

Summon Troll Horde:

1 greater troll for every 2 levels of the caster will be summoned - these appear one at a time, every other round. The summoned trolls will remain for 1 round per level and then disappear.

Jack Frost:

The caster draws all heat out of the area (AoE - line sight).

Damage: 1d4 per level cold damage
Extra effects:

i. Creatures are frozen/stunned depending on their HD (1-4HD - frozen for 1d10rds, no save; 5-10HD - frozen for 1d4rds, no save; 10-20HD - frozen for 1d4 rds, save to avoid; 20+HD - no effect)

ii. All creatures have their thaco reduced by 4 for 1d10 rounds (no save)

iii. Fire base creatures take double damage and are not stunned, instead they risk being destroyed totally (1-4HD - all destroyed, no save; 5-10HD - save at -5 or die; 11-20HD - save or die; 20+HD - no effect)

iv. Cold immunity will reduce the damage accordingly and give you a proportionate chance to avoid the other effects.

Thanks for the suggestions, votes and comments, everyone!

Imp. TT (= Tenser's Partial Transformation) is picked. Topic closed.