The Inquisitor class seems to be a specialized mage killer in the regular game. His quick cast True Seeing and double strength Dispel Magic combined with an unbugged, unnerfed Carsomyr made him a terror to mages. As far as I'm concerned, I'd only choose this class for added challenge in IA. I've got plenty of people who can cast True Seeing, but usually persistent area effect damage spells seem to work better. Dispel Magic isn't as effective as I would like. In the beginning, it seems like the improved opposition is often 20+ levels, and I expect that increases in ToB. That means Dispel Magic at double power can still fail. However, the real problem is Immunity-Abjuration. If not for that, the mage would die quickly anyway. Ruby Ray often isn't a big help unless you can chain it or use several mages, because you must peel back layers of spells to get rid of the immunity abjuration. And I hope that you can't put that spell in a contingency! The nerfed Carsomyr may still be worthwhile, but a fighter-thief would probably be better served through using it than the inquisitor. At least, the fighter-thief has the useful time traps.

Spell strike should work. However, I don't think it defeats Immunity Abjuration in IA even though it belongs to Alteration as well as Abjuration schools. Right? If you are worried about that making things too easy, let Spell Strike work 50% of the time or some such. After all, it is a level 9 spell.

Any way, I think it would be nice to make a better mage killer. The Wizard slayer has always been regarded as somewhat of a bad joke and now the inquisitor is not so good in my opinion. I hope Sikret will offer us some tweaks and/or items to enhance these 2 classes in the next edition.

I don't know, Keldorn's Dispel Magic never failed in my game even when I was facing enemies of much higher level.
Only SI: Abjuration could stop it (or immunity to 3 level spells).





Of course you can put Ruby Ray in a CC . Why shouldn't you be able?




Agree.
But the same is true for Lower Resistance (Abjuration, Alteration) which gets blocked by SI: Abj..

It's Sikret's decision however to change it or not.

Sorry, I was unclear. Actually, I was saying I hope you can't put Immunity Abjuration into a contingency. And I'm pretty sure you can't. It would be pretty bad if as soon as your melee guy hit him, he was protected with this again and then maybe activated a sequencer protection and run away...

No you can't put an SI in Contigencies,Sequencers.

SI:Abjuration can block Dispel Magic, but Immunity to 3rd level spells can't.

I will correct Spellstrike's description in the next release of the mod. It's a pure Abjuration spell. The description is incorrect.

This might be a good time to suggest this, and I can say this as after watchers keep I will be ready to leave shadows of amn.

It seems like the theme for these mage battles are always the same, they buff when they see me and I buff before the encounter, then its who can strip away the defenses the fastest.

When I played AD&D I came up with sort of a power rating for some spells based on the rules for dispel magic and magic resistence. Mainly the comparison of the level of the caster to the target. This gives advantage to the mage of the higher level.

In my opinion a spell like spellstrike (9th level and until HLA came around was supreme) should be able to bring down any protection spells, even SI:abjuration spells. Undoubtedly there will be many pro's and con's for this, however what if the success for these spells depended on the casters level in much the same ways as dispel magic mentioned above. Then the battles would be different in that you would have to use different spells to do the job.

As it is, spell strike is a waste to select as ruby ray which is a lower spell can strip out the SI:abjuration. It just doesn't make sense to me that in the power scheme of things concerning magic that you would have to use a lower level spell (in this case many ruby rays) just in order to clear the way for a powerfull spell like spellstrike.

The details of this "mage comparison" could be worked out later for instance what spells it would cover and doesn't have to be implemented across the board.

I believe in this way the monotony (sp) of the mage battles could be spiced up alittle and made more variable.

Romulas

Actually it's you who's incorrect. Spellstrike belongs to Alteration school, not Abjuration one.

Also, it's pretty easy to solve a problem with having to cast RR several times - to change spwi590's level to 10 and allow RR to dispel up to 10 level. Only two fast changes.

For spellstrike to bring down SI:abjuration, I should change its school from "abjuration" to something else (even making it schoolless will do); but it's a very radical change and will surely make this spell overpowered. Personally, I don't agree with such a radical change. Also, note that spellstrike can still bring down all of the target's spell protections provided that the target is not protected by SI:abjuration. For example, you meet mages who use SI:divination. If you can cast a successful dispel magic on them to make them visible, then your spellstrike will dispel all other spell protections.



It's not technically doable even if we agree on it.

Thanks for the feedback. Just trying to throw out there ways of making the mage battles better.

I am noticeing now with a party of 2 sorcerers and a thief with the HLA of use any items, the 3 of them casting ruby rays it takes 2 castings (6 spells) sometimes to get through and by the time this happens the fighters are in their face anyway. I am just not so sure it is worth it in the later parts of the game.

It is worth the time casting the spells when your fighters have worse to hits and AC, taking out the mages is paramount to surviving the encounter. One thing I don't seem to do very well is take down the protection from magic weapons which is done with a dispel magic I believe. I find many times I don't start doing damage till after their 4 or 5 scrolls are used and run out anyway.

Romulas

I just carry around non-enchanted swords/slings/etc in my weapon quickslots for when the humanoid spell casters start eating through their PfMW scrolls.
I have yet to really see any usage of improved mantles or absolute immunities though (I presume I'll see these after chapter 2), which would be exponentially more difficult.

I've seen mantles... I also carry around non-magical weapons. I just wish there was a quicker way to chew through the defenses. A mage can have up 2 fire shields, stoneskin, mirror image, and prot from magic weapons if so scripted. That calls for a lot of effort from the fighters. As Breach typically doesn't work because of immunity abjuration and other protections calling for several rounds of ruby ray, this allows those mages time to cause mischief. I'm managing, but just wish for a better way to protect my swashbuckler and kensai vs mages. The fighter-illusionist has no complaint.

I think it'd be awesome to script the enemy spell casters to constantly back peddle away from your warriors if they are not currently casting a spell!

For the standard mage this works pretty well, however through battle reports from a certain someone (looking around), sikret has made some of his more unnatureal monsters immune to +1 weapons, which then defeats the non-magical sword thing. I once slew a dragon with a berzerker dual wielding normal flails, nevertheless the next time I fought that dragon that didn't work.

Romulas

And the same (immunity to normal weapons) applies to liches - which also can't be turned. Demiliches require +4 weapons to hit. I think that invisible stalkers, spirit trolls, and fire and earth elementals are also immune to normal weapons.

Both of you guys make good points, which is why I originally specified humanoid spell casters (didn't think about the Liches though so good call from rbeverjr). Fortunately yours characters can also gain immunities to normal weapons via armor or hell rewards!

But as stated earlier, they'll mix in improved mantles and absolute immunities later regardless.

I personally don't mind the layers upon layers of protections though. It feels much exciting once you finally start doing damage! It's like a small fleeting window of opportunity!

As this topic was renamed to something perfectly fitting my question I might as well post it here:

Spell Shield. Holy crap! I don't know why, but it's undispellable o.O. I have tried likely every spell suited for this task in the game, except for Khelben's Warding Whip and Spellstrike (read: I tried Secret Word, Breach, Pierce Magic, the almighty Ruby Ray of Reversal and Pierce Shield)... to no avail. I think it was dispellable before, but now it isn't. I recently uninstalled and installed IA 4.2 again, as I added another EoU component. Since then I'm encountering this... feature. Not to sure about it though.
As of now I'm in the Underdark and fought the balor in the deep gnome village. I just noticed it there, as my spells (RRoR etc.) weren't affecting him. What I noticed as well is somewhat interesting: instead of the SS icon (iirc there was one, not?) the buff icon of Protection from Magic Energy appears right in the bufflist. It's undispellable for my magse as well, btw.

I really don't think this is how it's supposed to be, as SS should normally disappear after something was cast at the caster. Damaging spells go right through it though, if they can pass the magic resistance, of course.

[edit] Um... okay. Just tried it without IA: same picture. [/edit]

You know in my last save game in ToB it happened to me as well.

I could bring down Jan's or HaerDalis' Spell Shield but sometimes I could not remove Sarevok's SS no matter how many protection removal spells I cast at him.
Also sometimes the Spell Shield gets removed if you wait for some seconds.

I have noticed this only with Sarevok (dualled him to a mage).

I don't know how something like this can be fixed though (since it happens sometimes only).





Yes Sikret knows about it. Probably S.Shield doesn't have its own icon but maybe he can find one to replace it with.

Hmm... I was just going to reinstall the whole game two minutes ago. You saved me some precious time, now that I know I'm not the only one this had happened to

The sometimes part seems to be true for me as well. As I tested it again without IA I could once remove the SS cast by Irenicus with a simple breach. Seems rather weird to me. You imply you didn't get rid of it, right? So it just ceased to happen with the next game or do you still have this awful problem?

Icon: I'm quite sure, that back in the days I first cast this spell there was a shiny moon-shield icon in my character record. Just like the spell's own symbol.

[edit] Um... it works. Now. Dunno how long this will last though o.O. I repeated it several times to be sure. Sometimes I have to wait some seconds, but I can - at least - dispel my own SSs -.^ [/edit]

Just checking in to say I've repeatedly experienced the issue of spell shield being unremovable; on my own characters and various enemies throughout the game.

I doubt it is an IA issue though, and it will be hard to fix because there are no obvious factors that precipitate the problem.

Yes it doesn't have to do with IA. Just tried without IA and it happens the same.

The strange thing is that it happens only with Sarevok in my game and not always. Weird.

Hmm... maybe Sikret should abandon SS from the list of protections ;D

Weird for sure. And annoying as well, as in my current game likely 1 out of 20 times I can remove it at all. Strange... especially since my newly created mage can have his removed the whole time. 'tis somewhat hard, fighting all those nasty enemies without the sure possibility to dispel their protections and without good equipment. *sigh* Maybe Sikret is able to find a solution

So I finally learned Ruby Ray on Edwin and was thinking to myself "time to kick some mage ass." Unfortunately, I ran into this bug which makes most mages nearly impossible to kill. I also think the whole SI:Abjuration trick needs to be reserved for bosses, rather than every damn mage in the game abusing it.

BotD, what is the bug? If its RR not bringing down SI: Abjuration, its not a bug. It means the mage has other spell protections that abosrbed your first RR

It's this awful bug which makes magefights a hell for me as well: undispellable Spell Shield in like 99% of the battles. I've gotten around it by using Holy Avenger on Keldorn and simply um... well, beating mages to puddles of blood by pure force. It's possible and due to the dispelling ability triggered at times it's a lot easier but it still doesn't allow one to play how he would like to.

Maybe Sikret could think about publishing another set of scripts which don't use SS, though it might get to easy then (wooo, one RRoR less ).

Yes, I was referring to the Spell Shield bug. It doesn't matter how many Ruby Rays you pump into them, the Spell Shield just keeps on ticking. As the previous poster stated, the only way to beat them is just brute force them. I don't have the Holy Avenger, so this is a very dangerous strategy. Most mages surround themselves with a fireshield that does some major damage as you try to penetrate their stoneskin. Apart from that, they usually prepare some nasty spell triggers/contingencies, like three Horrid Wiltings and all the while they expend large amounts of Mantle/PfMW scrolls.

That's why I usually protect my party (all, if not then at least the fighters) from electricity, fire and cold. After gaining more levels protecting them from magical energy became another option. It helps . The problem is: dispelling spells cast by these damn mages. Well, X/M combinations can take care of that by casting SI:Abjuration. If not you should try to be fast, sometimes you can interrupt them before they cast their spells.

Oddly enough, Protection from Magical Energy does not mitigate fireshields. I do however put on Protection from Fire with SI:Abj. A useful combination with an Inquisitor in the party as he can then dispel magic with near impunity.

PfME protects you only from pure magic damage, like Magic Misslie, Skull Trap or Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting (name? I've got a German version of the game, sorry if it's wrong ) would deal to you. The two fireshields deal cold or fire damage respectively, so you need to be protected against those.

I forgot to reply to the following:



Just posting for the sake of posting, eh?

If Spellstrike is an alteration spell in *your* game, then you have a different game on your computer from what we have and I strongly recommend that you do not use IA (or any other BG2 mod) for that different game. We are discussing BG2 here. But if you have the same game, then I suggest that you check things before posting. Don't waste our time with such baseless comments anymore, please.

I'm getting a strong feeling that I should leave BWL completely... Whenever I say smth here I get silly accusations in my adress. Just thoughts aloud...

Back on topic. I know that in bg2 it's an abjuration spell. What I said was related to PnP rules. According them Spellstrike is alteration spell. Ok, at least according the version/edition/whatever sounds better I have.

That's because you say silly things or you say them in silly ways.


If that's what you meant you should have stated it in a way such as "In my opinion, it's better to change it to alteration school" instead of "Actually it's you who's incorrect. etc..."

Yes, the spell is bugged in the original game. Some times ruby ray removes it and some times it doesn't (no matter how many ruby rays you cast). I fixed the bug. It will work fine when you install IA v4.3.

Maybe I'm blind or something, but IA v4.3 isn't released yet, correct? Is there an releasedate already?

Yes, that's correct.

No, unless sikret wants to give one now .