My last few games of BG2 I have used at most 4 party members (including the PC) with a few "guest npcs" for special sections.

I feel that any number over 4 makes control difficult. I also like to use powerful npcs (like Valen or Solafein) which make other npcs dead weight. In the beginning of the game a small party can make the game very difficult and a tactical challenge. But since they gain more exp per kill (even using multi-class characters), by mid-game my party is way over-powered and the game starts to get boring.

However, the appeal of a < 6 party is the increased exp reward, so I don't want to use a reduced experience mod. Can IA provide a satisfying gameplay experience for a small party from beginning to end? (or will my 4-member party just get their collective butt's kicked?)

I guess this question doesn't really have an answer, but I'd like to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience.

cheers,

kilolima

Well it's not a problem of Bg II i suppose...i remember unistalling Valen and Solafein just because they were way to overpowerd!

Try a party of 4 with balanced NPC!

Definitely yes.Even when your party reach ToB-levels/HLAs during the SoA part of the game, the game will still be very challenging.






Well this depends totally on how experienced you are in BG2.

As you said a 4 members party may have more difficulties from a full party in the beginning of the game but later on things will get easier.
Of course that depends also on the selection of your party members and your PC's class.

In my experience 2 characters that can do extremely well in IA are the F/M and the F/T.Also a R/C (or a F/C) will be very effective since a Cleric can help a lot in some battles.
All of them are multi-classed because, IMHO, good THACO and Fighter's HLAs can really make the difference in IA.

Note also that in IA pure Arcane spell-casters have lost a lot of their power (fortunately), so it's the first mod where I can definitely say that the Wild Mage or the Sorcerer is not the most powerful class.

As for NPCs I don't know if there are any compatibility issues with some of the mod-NPCs and IA.
But from the original game I can recommend:

a)Jaheira
b)Keldorn and
c)Aerie.


PS: In my suggestions I didn't take into consideration the new items introduced by IA sthg that can change the "rating" of some classes and NPCs.

@kilolima2

Let me give you a very general hint:

Always listen to everything thetruth says. He is the best BG2 player ever.

Cheers

Care to elaborate, Thetruth? (without revealing spoilers?)

I'm personally partial to the sorcerer class and am really enjoying the spellweaver wild sorcerer kit mod in BGT. Does IA nerf spell-casters?




I usually change the default npcs around anyway. Valen as a F/M/T, Jaheira as a F/C (rather have a cleric than a druid), Imoen as an Arcane Archer/M, and Solafein the same as a F/M.

Maybe not spell-casters per se, but their (offensive) power is limited mainly because of the new enemies of IA.

- Really tough enemies/monsters of IA have high MR and other "abilities/immunities" (sorry can't reveal more) sthg that makes almost impossible to deal only with magic.

- Sikret's intelligent scripts will now make the Mages' life extremely difficult.Also now enemies in IA really have the way to counteract effectively Mages' super buffs/protections.
Play and you will see what I mean (...ehm just one thing - Death Ward is your friend )

- Spell Immunity is now tweaked (for me it's more a fix rather than a tweak) and multiple SIs do not stack - you can have only one SI active.



In conclusion Arcane spell casters are still powerful in the game but not the overpowered class they used to be in the original game or even with the other challenging mods (Tactics,Ascension etc.).

With IA having a versatile party which covers everything (Melee/Arcane/Divine power) is more essential than ever.In fact it's also the first mod I dare to say that is not soloable with a Sorcerer and for me it means a lot.


(PS: Sikret tell me if I have spolied sthg so that I can edit )

A great party of four is Korgan,Viconia,Edwin and charname as an assassin... They cover nearly everything and except for overpowered mod NPCs they are the best in what they do!

The drawback is this game isn't well suited to play an evil party in my opinion...

Most of the new quests in IA v4 are also best suited for non-evil parties. Playing a ranger protagonist will give you the most possible oppotunity to see new quests/encounters in IA v4. Playing a non-evil mage/sorcerer stands as the second best choice.

I recommend to play IA v4 for at least two times: once with a ranger and once with a non-evil mage/sorcerer, because playing with a ranger protagonist you will not see the mage's new quests and playing with a mage you will not see the big quest added to the ranger stronghold.

Thanks thetruth for your comments. I'm excited to hear that soloing a sorcerer is no longer possible when using IA. This should stir up the tactical challenge!




Sikret,

What's it like playing a ranger in BG2? In BG1 there's lots of forest and low-level animals to befriend, but in BG2 most of the game is indoors, IIRC. What's that do for role-playing a ranger? Do you use them as a stalker? Is a stalker better than a thief? Having never played as a ranger before I don't know how I would really use them.

Is it possible to apply the tactics multi-stronghold mod and play both strongholds? Just because playing the game twice isn't very realistic given the amount of time it takes.

cheers,

kilolima

@kilolima2

All of us have played BG2 (even modded BG2) for countless times and I'm sure we will continue playing it over and over. Isn't it better that each time you will start a new game (with a different protagonist) you know that not everything is the same as your previous game? I have split IA's different quests for different protagonsts to give fresh flavor to the game each time you start a new game. (IA's randomization program is also another feature of the mod which adds to this flavor, because each time you start a new game the powerful items are distributed randomly and they may be in different and new locations.)

Multiple Stronghold component of Ease of use will work fine with IA. It will allow you to see all of the standard quests of strongholds regardless of your protagonist's class and even the ones which are enhanced by IA. For example, if you play a non-ranger protagonist, the multiple stronghold will allow you to fight with the improved Umar witch. Only the new quests added by IA will not be affected by multiple stronghold. "The mystery of the shimmering light", the new quest added for rangers, really needs your PC to be a ranger. Some of the dialogues and rewards would not make sense if the quest was allowed for non-ranger players. The new quests added to the mage stronghold (except "Danger at harbors"), on the other hand, could have been coded differently so that a non-mage could still play them if he/she had the multiple stronghold, but I deliberately made them specific to mages/sorcerers for the reason I mentioned above. However, if I see more similar requests from players, I may reconsider and make the mage specific quests available to all classes (though it's not really my preference. I prefer them the way they currently are ).

I have also ideas for an expanded fighter stronghold feature to be added to IA. I love playing with a Berserker protagonist and I think that an expanded fighter stronghold will be cool. The mysterious thing you will find with Glaicas (in v4) is also related to this feature of the mod, but I guess that completing the expanded fighter stronghold may be postponed to IA v5.

As for your question about Stalkers, yes, stalker is a very interesting and powerful kit (the best ranger kit, IMO). The main advantage over a thief is that you do backstab with a fighter's THAC0! I had sent a post to Sorcerer's Place forum regarding how to play Valygar efficiently. It's still there in the archives, but I can't find it now to give you the link. If I find the post, I will send you the link.

I humbly suggest you make it so that all classes can access the mage, ranger and/or fighter stronghold quests, i.e similar to Multiple Stronghold component. Mainly because (as I'm sure I'm not alone in saying this) it's just too cumbersome to play through the game 3 different times just to experience them and there are probably people like me who don't have enough spare time these days to play BG2 much.

Those who play pure mage/ranger/fighter will find it no different anyway, so whats the harm?

@Sikret

The 'shimmering light' quest sounds fun. Will it be available to multi-class ranger/clerics?

Similarly to Fillian's question, will other class specific quests be available to multi-(and dual-)classes that include that class?

@Fillian & OTG

Yes.

@ Panama: No I like it a bit like Sikret - each game with a new protagonist yields a new playing experience. Thus more different quests would be my cup of tea

A solution could be to make the Ranger/Mage specific quests available only to someone who uses the Multiple Strongholds component of EoU.

Shaitan,

I probably didnt make myself clear. I'm not too technical when it comes to this, but I'll try to explain what i mean. For example, if you play a protagonist Thief, I'm not saying the new Mage or Ranger stronghold quests should be triggered mandatory. I'm saying that, if the player has installed an optional component related to IA that is similar to multiple stronghold, then and only then, should the said quests be revealed to the Thief. So if you didn't install that component during the installation of IA, you would just be playing a pure game as you said - "each game with a new protagonist yields a new playing experience".

He. I guess we would be fiddling with Sikrets intentions with IA again wouldn't we? Well I stopped using the multiple strongholds, so it might be a solution, but fortunately it's up to Sikret (or the angry mob ...)

One potential problem here is that if a player does all quests (of all classes) in a single game-through, the XP gained in those quests will stack and we may lose our control over the difficulty of battles (in later stages of the game). Some players will have multiple strongholds and will be able to do all quests, while some others will not have the multiple strongholds and will only do quests of their own classes and we will not know whether to design the battles (of the later stages of the game such as TOB) for the former group of players or for the latter.

There was a similar problem in IA v3 in regard to WK. WK was not sufficiently difficult and some players could go and sweep it to gain lots of XP. This problem is now solved in IA v4 (specially with my recent additions to it) and WK is adequately difficult to make sure that low levels parties cannot go there to hunt easy XP and levels.

Another problem is what goes on in each of those quests: dialogues and other things, I mean. You have played The Mystery of the shimmering light, thetruth. Will it really make sense for an assassin protagonist to do that quest? It really makes me laugh. This was one of the problems of multiple strongholds component of EoU in its generality even regardless of IA's quests. A paladin having the thief stronghold or a theif doing paladin or ranger quests don't seem right to me.

I totally agree with Sikret...multiple strongholds doesn't make sense at all to me. And i always thought too that even doing every quest is an exploit to gain exp and items because a PnP party would take along only quests appropriate to their aims (classes, alignments,...). This is only my opinion and anyone should play as he likes...but i think that if Sikret is building quests that should be played with an appropriate class we should play them as he wants without asking for him making them compatible with all classes and NPCs.
To me would make sense even playing quests reserved to a specific kit!