JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 15 Jan 2005 04:56 pm Post subject: John running Voltaer through NeJ2
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Starting Nej2 after finishing Nej1: Irenicus’es Chateau…
I’m constantly crashing to the desktop when my party tries to fight Ulvaryl, the vampire in Irenicus’es dungeon. Okay I found out what it is. The ‘Arrows of the Hand’ are causing it to happen. When I use them to attack an enemy the game crashes. No more ‘Arrows of the Hand’ for me…
At this point I’ve re-installed for version NeJ2v21b. The save game is just before leaving Chateau Irenicus, the tunnel out.
Had dialogue with Hrothgar after we finished up CI and they took Imoen away. I picked the dialogue choice “I’ll consider what you have said…” so that I can get a little breather here and buy/sell, do some minor quests, etc.
Also it seems that Hrothgar really doesn’t take much time to ‘think on it’. He initiates dialogue again just several seconds later. He’s definitely not a slow thinker!! I guess this is good if you want to go immediately to Ulcaster, but it would bypass the option of picking up Melora if the option to go right away was picked.
Picked up Melora nearby the Adventurer’s Mart, and since I have Yoshimo in my party, I’ll probably have to make the choice to drop him later. Not yet though…
Did the Circus tent quest. It went okay and left Aerie there.
Took care of Mencar and friends…
I was hoping that perhaps Dar might have something to say when we went into the temple of Ilmater in the Promenade. Alas, no…
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Vlad
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Posted: 15 Jan 2005 06:37 pm Post subject:
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Quote:
the temple of Ilmater in the Promenade
I didn't know there is a temple after several years of playing BG2. Well, probably I have not been interested in visiting temples which do not provide quests . Also we cannot cover all the possible interjections in BG2 .
Quote:
He’s definitely not a slow thinker!
Well, he is definitely not a person you would like him to see.
Anyway, you will have about 20 days to spend in Athkatla, to get a new NPC, to solve her quest etc. There will be a dialogue when Hrothgar says that he is going to move to Ulcaster "with or without you". Also it would be possible to move there through your map - Ulcaster should be revealed on the map in the last version but it will be only possible if you start a new game. Please take your time and make some quests in BG2. You'll also need to join Bodhi and start her quests if you want to find a new NPC.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 16 Jan 2005 01:35 am Post subject:
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Vlad wrote:
Quote:
the temple of Ilmater in the Promenade
I didn't know there is a temple after several years of playing BG2. Well, probably I have not been interested in visiting temples which do not provide quests . Also we cannot cover all the possible interjections in BG2 .
Heh, no problem there Vlad, I definitely understand about not being able to cover all possible interjections...that would be an astronomical task!
I usually like going to that temple when I need to stock up on potions, etc. Sometimes when I enter someone comes in and throws coins at me (I think it's Habib...). This starts up some dialogue with the priest that I should be sympathetic to him and forgive him, or something of that nature anyway. I don't know what the original designers intended here, but it feels like a car that will start yet not stay running...
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 16 Jan 2005 08:20 am Post subject:
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In the Slums, talked with Galen Bayle; Chapter Two.
Have the quest from Ikey, outside of the CC, to talk with Samuel Thunderburp. Hmmm… It looks like I will not have very long in Chapter 2 if I want to get Leina. Since, if I understand correctly, I am going to have to side with Bodhi to get her. Normally, I spend the greatest amount of game time between Chapters 2 and 3, and complete most of the quests during this time. I’ll see how this works out…
Have quest from Lord Jierdan (might not get to this one any time soon…). Stashing some extra stuff in a chest here…Wish I had some bottomless bags, heh, but that won’t be till later. Dropped Yoshimo for now. I’ll travel along with five until Leina joins us.
Freed Hendak and other slaves. Finished off the slavers in the slums, and have Lilarcor.
After finishing off the slavers and stepping outside into the night Valen came and visited me with her offer and then Brus followed with his message about Galen Bayle’s new offer. Talked to Galen, but held off from taking the deal just yet…
Reward from Hendak. Scene with Hareishan and Shadow Thieves. Habib throws his scimitar at Dar’s head and Dar throws a bullet back…
Entering Bridge District…
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larrienne
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Posted: 16 Jan 2005 06:39 pm Post subject: Re: John running Voltaer through NeJ2
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JohnTheMutt wrote:
I was hoping that perhaps Dar might have something to say when we went into the temple of Ilmater in the Promenade. Alas, no…
John, unlike NEJ1 which was as good as complete when I began writing banters for it and it needed very little input, NEJpart2, is a completely new part. As such, new NPC's, and their quests was of the utmost importance and had to be written first and implimented along with Hrothgar's quest which is after all, what NEJ is all about. Whereas they have some banter between themselves and PC. hopefully, fingers crossed here that Vlad will be back with us soon, by the final release there will be banters between them and all SOA NPC's plus interjections from them for all SOA. original quests and events.
Being the sole writer at the moment John, it takes time to get it all together.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 16 Jan 2005 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: John running Voltaer through NeJ2
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No worries Larrienne and I apologize for the critical 'sound' of what I wrote. You and Vlad have done such a great job so far and like you said, your the sole writer at the moment. Just to get the main plot line and dialogue written and keep straight must have been and probably still is a huge effort. I can imagine that there is plenty on both your plates right now.
I should have framed it more as a suggestion for a possible future interjection/ banter. The temple in Waukeen's Promenade and the one above the CC are the only Temples of Ilmater in SoA iirc. Some of the orphans there, when you talk with them, have sad stories of how they came to be there, and, it seems to me, that would be an ideal time for Dar to interject and give them some words of encouragement, etc. He could also interject when you talk to the priest and one of the dialogue options is to ask about Ilmater, etc.
Once again, I'm enjoying the game immensely so far, please keep up the good work!
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larrienne
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Posted: 17 Jan 2005 12:23 am Post subject: Re: John running Voltaer through NeJ2
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JohnTheMutt wrote:
No worries Larrienne and I apologize for the critical 'sound' of what I wrote. You and Vlad have done such a great job so far and like you said, your the sole writer at the moment. Just to get the main plot line and dialogue written and keep straight must have been and probably still is a huge effort. I can imagine that there is plenty on both your plates right now.
I should have framed it more as a suggestion for a possible future interjection/ banter. The temple in Waukeen's Promenade and the one above the CC are the only Temples of Ilmater in SoA iirc. Some of the orphans there, when you talk with them, have sad stories of how they came to be there, and, it seems to me, that would be an ideal time for Dar to interject and give them some words of encouragement, etc. He could also interject when you talk to the priest and one of the dialogue options is to ask about Ilmater, etc.
Once again, I'm enjoying the game immensely so far, please keep up the good work!
John please, you didn't sound critical at all. As for my reply, it was intended to show you that there is, hopefully, still more goodies yet to come.
Your banter idea is good and I will consider it for future use, that is unless you feel like... maybe writing it yourself? You may e-mail me if you wish to have a bash at it.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 17 Jan 2005 07:13 am Post subject: Re: John running Voltaer through NeJ2
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larrienne wrote:
John please, you didn't sound critical at all. As for my reply, it was intended to show you that there is, hopefully, still more goodies yet to come.
Your banter idea is good and I will consider it for future use, that is unless you feel like... maybe writing it yourself? You may e-mail me if you wish to have a bash at it.
Thanks Larrienne. Heh, now I really did it, and put myself on the spot!
But if I can come up with a good , I'll email you.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 17 Jan 2005 07:18 am Post subject:
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Solved the ‘skinner’ murders, locally anyway. Carbos & Shank fought over Bubbles.
Talked with Samuel about Leina and then off to her room.
Mislabel> The ‘crumpled flowers’ have the title “Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone”.
Wow! What a love letter! Pretty good…I’ll have to use that on my wife and see what she thinks…
We had the party wide banter initiated by Hrothgar about searching for Leina, except it was triggered on the steps down into the Five Flagons main bar room. Not in Leina’s room or anywhere in that area.
Talked again with Samuel. Need to meet Govan Duvaine in the CC. Head downstairs to see a play, and now have quest for Haer Dalis. Killed Falahar & crew.
Back to the Slums…
Have Nalia’s quest, will meet her south of her Keep. Govan is a drunk! It took me awhile to find him since I was ‘tabbing’ on each character and seeing what popped up. Also, after you talk with Govan, he still shows up as a “Drunk” when you tab on him. Just a suggestion, but after he is identified as “Govan”, it would be helpful that his ‘tag’ be updated to signify that. Or “Govan the Drunk”, what have you… Govan also has nothing to say to me after the one conversation.
Off to the Government District…
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larrienne
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Posted: 17 Jan 2005 12:35 pm Post subject:
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JohnTheMutt wrote:
Wow! What a love letter! Pretty good…I’ll have to use that on my wife and see what she thinks…
John, I am glad you liked the poem. Did your wife? I however, cannot take credit for the writing. It was written by one August Vernhardsson. I personally, do not write romantic fiction... I don't have a romantic bone in my body ... my writing leans more towards the genre of Sci/Fi. So, with his permission of course, I have used several poems from this very talented Iceladic poet in Leina's dialogues.
Poetry is not my thing unless it is being read to me.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 18 Jan 2005 06:17 am Post subject:
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larrienne wrote:
Poetry is not my thing unless it is being read to me.
That's good Larrienne! And I did read it to my wife...
Wife: "That's a very nice poem , and I would marry you, but your already MARRIED TO YOUR COMPUTER "
TheMutt: "Umm...Errr...Well...Uhhh..." ...
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Vlad
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Posted: 18 Jan 2005 09:17 am Post subject:
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Quote:
TheMutt: "Umm...Errr...Well...Uhhh..." ...
Well, I have found some hidden resources to regain my RL for a while.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 19 Jan 2005 04:43 am Post subject:
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Vlad wrote:
Quote:
TheMutt: "Umm...Errr...Well...Uhhh..." ...
Well, I have found some hidden resources to regain my RL for a while.
Heh heh, glad it helped Vlad.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 20 Jan 2005 07:22 am Post subject:
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Okay, Vulova estate is locked up tight. Now, I know what to do because Vlad has told me and I’ve read others posts. However, I’m going to play this as if I don’t know.
My first normal response was to try to open the door with any means necessary. Failing that, I work the Government District for what it has to offer. Free Viconia; she heads to Graveyard. Help Jan out, he heads back home. Delon & Minsc talk, were going to the Umar hills later… Accept Tolgerias’ quest. That’s it here for now…
To Slums…
I Head back to the CC to ask Govan some more questions, however, he is happily getting drunk and still has nothing to say to me. This could become frustrating… Pick up Korgan and were going to do his quest…
Off to the Graveyard…
Looting tombs and Crypt King. Have Wellyn’s quest. Freed Tirdir, buried alive quest. Pai’Na and all lower crypts done. Rested and then Melora and Dar had banter about the morality of Melora’s profession. Good dialogue with voice all the way through. Leaving, avoid Bodhi for now, and found a guardian for Risa.
To Temple District…
Just a quick trip to Pimlico’s and advance Korgan’s quest. Introduced to the Unseeing eye.
To Bridge District…
Talked to Samuel, who even after picking all three dialogue choices, says that he was sorry that his faith in us was misplaced because we are giving up the search. It would be nice to have the option “We haven’t given up yet Samuel. We think her father Vulova may have some idea as to her whereabouts, any ideas on how we can reach him?” or some such…
Anyhow, Hrothgar then sympathizes with the PC about not having any clues where to search next and that Leina is probably okay with her father. Melora interjects and then the PC can make a choice. I pick the option to go after Duvaine, of which Hrothgar disapproves.
We take care of the kidnappers while here. Choose the evil path, no one objects, to get the pants. Head back to…
The Slums…
We finish Shagbag for Korgan and end his quest. Visit the Temple of Ilmater, where Habib throws some coins at us. In the CC we drop off Korgan and sell loot. No Govan Duvaine… Hmmm… Will there be anymore clues? Leaving for…
The Docks…
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larrienne
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Posted: 20 Jan 2005 08:40 am Post subject:
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JohnTheMutt wrote:
Okay, Vulova estate is locked up tight. Now, I know what to do because Vlad has told me and I’ve read others posts. However, I’m going to play this as if I don’t know.
My first normal response was to try to open the door with any means necessary. Failing that, I work the Government District for what it has to offer. Free Viconia; she heads to Graveyard. Help Jan out, he heads back home. Delon & Minsc talk, were going to the Umar hills later… Accept Tolgerias’ quest. That’s it here for now…
To Slums…
I Head back to the CC to ask Govan some more questions, however, he is happily getting drunk and still has nothing to say to me. This could become frustrating……
Vlad, I had no probs with this quest in earlier game. Have you re-done the quest so that Leina can only be found if PC accepts Bodhi's terms, as was intended originally? Siding with Bodhi was to be the only way Vulova's estate would become accessable to PC. (The same way that siding with Arun is the only way of recruiting Sime in TS)
If you have made the changes, then John's prob could be because Ikey appeared giving him Samuel's message before he has met and agreed to side with Bodhi and not after. In which case, Vulova's estate would still be locked. Just a thought.
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No problems John. Go on please. If you have never joined Bodhi before then I would prefer to refrain from spoiling your game. Anyway, you'll get the access to Vulova's estate from Bodhi.
Jan, sorry but I didn't understand your last comment. Ikey always appears in front of the Copper Coronet. If you wish to reach Leina you should join Bodhi. If my memory serves me well I think we have already discussed this point and decided to return to the original plot when Leina is only accessible through Bodhi's quests. In this way we would be able to prevent branching of the whole scenario, many scripting problems originating from this branching and mixing Sime and Leina in one group for those who play BP or TS-NeJ2 combination.
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larrienne
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Posted: 20 Jan 2005 10:00 am Post subject:
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Vlad wrote:
.
Jan, sorry but I didn't understand your last comment. Ikey always appears in front of the Copper Coronet. If you wish to reach Leina you should join Bodhi. If my memory serves me well I think we have already discussed this point and decided to return to the original plot when Leina is only accessible through Bodhi's quests. In this way we would be able to prevent branching of the whole scenario, many scripting problems originating from this branching and mixing Sime and Leina in one group for those who play BP or TS-NeJ2 combination.
What I am saying may happen Vlad, as my dialogue was written for Ikey appearing after PC accepts Bodhi's terms, if Ikey appears before PC has spoken to Bodhi, PC may then proceed to, and speak with Samuel, learn of Govan Duvaine, go to the CC and speak with him. PC then learns of Leina's father's involvement but then finds he cannot access Vulova's estate because he hasn't taken Bodhi's terms... the only way to get at Vulova. Frustrating for PC because nothing points to him having to side with Bodhi in order to get into Vulova's estate. Any seasoned SoA player of course knows that Bodhi's quest opens the estate but we have to presume that PC. doesn't know this.
There is no dialogue or further clues for PC. giving access to the estate because it is presumed he has been given access by siding with Bodhi, hence triggering the opening of the estate and triggering Ikey's appearance immediately after this dialogue with her.
If you want Ikey to appear before siding with Bodhi then extra dialogue is required because PC will probably return to Samuel to explain that he can not speak to her father but he will continue to look for a way to get to him and then Govan should not be present if PC returns to the CC. after his initial conversation with him.
Vlad I know no easier way to explain this.
If you are still confused by my explanation I will try and e-mail you later today, with the original Ikey appearing scenario.
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Vlad
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Posted: 20 Jan 2005 11:19 am Post subject:
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Jan, thanks I see your point. But for me it still doesn't make sense because anyway you should proceed with Bodhi's quests in order to join Leina. If you don't then Leina won't be joinable. Hence it doesn't matter when Ikey appears from this point view. However it's very important that Ikey appears as early as possible to launch this quest in order the *seasoned player* would decide whether he works for Bodhi or for Aran. In both cases whether Ikey appears before or after accepting Bodhi's terms we cannot satisfy both players (veteran and novice). However frustration of the novice players may be easily solved by writing *the last minute tip* in ReadMe, and to satisfy the veteran players who know how to enter the Vulova's estate we actually should summon Ikey as early as possible that I have already arranged.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 22 Jan 2005 06:36 am Post subject:
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Quote:
What I am saying may happen Vlad, as my dialogue was written for Ikey appearing after PC accepts Bodhi's terms, if Ikey appears before PC has spoken to Bodhi, PC may then proceed to, and speak with Samuel, learn of Govan Duvaine, go to the CC and speak with him. PC then learns of Leina's father's involvement but then finds he cannot access Vulova's estate because he hasn't taken Bodhi's terms... the only way to get at Vulova. Frustrating for PC because nothing points to him having to side with Bodhi in order to get into Vulova's estate. Any seasoned SoA player of course knows that Bodhi's quest opens the estate but we have to presume that PC. doesn't know this.
There is no dialogue or further clues for PC. giving access to the estate because it is presumed he has been given access by siding with Bodhi, hence triggering the opening of the estate and triggering Ikey's appearance immediately after this dialogue with her.
If you want Ikey to appear before siding with Bodhi then extra dialogue is required because PC will probably return to Samuel to explain that he can not speak to her father but he will continue to look for a way to get to him and then Govan should not be present if PC returns to the CC. after his initial conversation with him.
Vlad I know no easier way to explain this.
Larrienne, you nailed it on the head. I am frustrated in my search for Leina. If I wasn't already told that I have to side with Bodhi... I'd be lost. I've even played BG2 several times and sided with Bodhi many times. But it has been a while and I forgot about Vulova from before (forgetful seasoned player... )
Quote:
But for me it still doesn't make sense because anyway you should proceed with Bodhi's quests in order to join Leina.
The problem is that I wouldn't normally know to do that. The quest to rescue Leina has no clues at all that siding with Bodhi is the path I need to take in rescuing her. Ikey talked to the PC in CH2, well before I intended to commit to either Arun or Bodhi.
For me, there is a disconitnuity in the quest to rescue Leina. It relies on too much pre-knowledge and luck. This is just ripe to frustrate the player. Well, it did for me anyway. The problem being that I went back to Samuel for more clues and no matter what dialogue I picked, it just admitted to my failure in finding her...
Quote:
In both cases whether Ikey appears before or after accepting Bodhi's terms we cannot satisfy both players (veteran and novice).
I think it's possible!
Vlad, if you want to introduce the quest to save Leina in Chapter 2 then may I suggest that some extra dialogue and/or perhaps even some extra encounters be done?
A suggestion:
After talking with Govan and heading to the Vulova estate, we could trigger an encounter by an agent of Bodhi whenever PC attempts to open the door to the Vulova estate. This encounter could be by a vampire if at night. A vampire familiar by day or some kind of agent of Bodhi either way. This wouldn't be too far fetched either, since after all, Bodhi is planning on framing the Shadow Thieves for the murder of Vulova, and it would be reasonable that one of her agents is casing his home for the job.
This agent then spots the PC and party, since both sides are anxious to recruit the PC for their own ends, the agent then approaches the PC with an offer:
*Out of the shadows a cloaked and hooded figure approaches you...*
Agent: You are <charname>?
PC: Yes... How is it you know my name? Do I have business with you?
Agent: As to me knowing your name... My Mistress knows much about you already. You are known to us, if not us to you. As to business...I noticed you are trying to enter the Vulova estate. This I can tell you truthfully... my Mistress can help you to gain access to within. ONLY through my Mistress'es help would you gain access. Consider this when the time comes for deciding.
PC: Deciding what? And who is this Mistress you speak of?
Agent: All answers will be given in due time. Guards approach and I must not be seen. Consider...
*The last words echo in your mind as the shadowy figure melts into the shadows and out of sight...*
Some party wide banter could entail if you wanted. Such as:
Hrothgar: "<charname>, we really don't have time for these intrigues! There is much more important business to be about!"
Melora: "Did you feel the coldness? Like from a grave...I don't trust who ever that was..."
Dar: "I get a strong sense of wrongness from that figure. Beware of that ones Mistress <charname>."
Etc.
Next, an extra dialogue choice with Samuel could be added if the PC talks to him after this encounter:
PC:"We have a clue as to how to find Leina, Samuel. It is rather obscure at the moment, however we are still looking into it. Please be patient, I am confident that we will find her in time"
Samuel: "I see that my faith in you is well placed <charname>. It heartens me that someone as perservering as yourself is searching for her and if anyone should find her it will be you."
Next, an extra dialogue could be added to Bodhi in CH3 when she is giving the PC the 2nd of her tasks to do. One of the tasks is to kill Vulova and plant the evidence against the Shadow Thieves. I forget the other at the moment and perhaps you could help me out with it. Is it related to Vulova at all or something else completely?
In any case, I think the dialogue (or something similar) below should be BEFORE the choice is made so that the PC has some guidance as to which path will yield Leina. This dialogue would not be there unless the PC actually met Bodhi's agent.
Bodhi: "...and I understand from one of my agents that you may have another motive for taking this task on. Do this task and it will gain you access to what has been previously closed to you."
Vlad, any of the above dialogue are presented as ideas, so you can take them literally or alter them as you see fit. Larrienne is a much better writer and could make better dialogue for sure. I just want to give a suggestion that something like the above would really help to clear up a lot of confusion and frustration about how to find Leina.
Vlad and Larrienne, I hope to have made a helpful suggestion and want to thank you for possible consideration.
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larrienne
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Posted: 22 Jan 2005 12:58 pm Post subject:
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Quote:
John The Mutt ...I think it's possible.
John, your dialogue ideas are good and can be easily expanded on.
Vlad, what do you think of adding a short, extra encounter with an agent of Bodhi when PC. attempts to open Vulova's estate, expanding John's dialogue ideas and as I have suggested, adding a short dialogue with Samuel where PC. explains to him that he intends to continue to find a way to get to Vulova, incorporating some of John's ideas here as well?
It depends on whether you want to add any more to this quest or leave it for the read me to explain re. siding with Bodhi.
Your every wish is my command Vlad. *To write or not to write... that is the question*
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Vlad
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Posted: 22 Jan 2005 05:20 pm Post subject:
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2 bee or not 2 bee... this is the american version .
John it is a good idea, thank you. I think Larrienne will fulfill it.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 24 Jan 2005 08:42 am Post subject:
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Got Renfeld on the way in. Convenient. So we give him to Rylock, and after that we finish the Harper’s and Xzar little side quests.
Finish the Pirates lair, Talk to Kangaxx, who wants his bones back… working for Renal, do the Mae’Var quest, etc.
Had encounter at night with vampire Salia and 2 Shadow Thieves. Have first job from Mae’Var and heading to…
The Temple District…
While there, I stop in at the Temple of Helm and accept the Unseeing Eye quest as well as the Sir Sarles-Illithium quest. Stole necklace from priestess of Talos. Heading into the sewers.Cleared out 1st level. Keldorn in party. Heading to…
Slums…
And the CC to stash more item (wish I had unlimited storage containers…) Next we head to…
Waukeen’s Promenade…
To raise our rep in the temple there and then to buy Balduran’s Shield. While in the Adventurer’s Mart, Hrothgar again asked PC if he was ready to join him in going to Ulcaster. We put Hrothgar off again with Dialogue choice #1. It’s been 3 game days since Hrothgar first asked us, to go to Ulcaster, just outside of Irenicus’es Chateau in Waukeen’s Promenade.
We also run around for Keldorn (Gov. Dst. & Promenade) and complete his family quest, and then let him go. Heading back to…
The Docks…
Just before talking with Mae’Var, and Hrothgar and Dar talk about how Dar is getting along in this ‘time’. Hrothgar has voice but Dar does not. Good dialogue once again.
During the fight with Gethras, I had Minsc summon Boo but I also had 5 Gnoll Elites summoned as well. Boo disappeared from Minsc’s quick slot and didn’t appear at all where I marked him to be. The only message on the screen was the standard “You cannot control more than 5 monsters at a time”. Will Boo come back?? I went back to a previous save for the time being.
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Vlad
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Posted: 24 Jan 2005 09:52 am Post subject:
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Will Boo come back??
I'm not sure. I will need to modify his script for this specific case. Thanks.
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JohnTheMutt
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Posted: 26 Jan 2005 07:09 am Post subject:
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We picked up Edwin (for a short time because we have Minsc) and finished the Mae’Var quest for Renal & accepted the offer of the Thieves stronghold. I have the Ease of Use ‘Multi-Stronghold’ component installed so it shouldn’t be a problem to still side with Bodhi. After accepting the job, I took out Renal, since he will not be around when I side with Bodhi and now’s the time to get his stuff.
Set up guild but don’t get the quest to meet Ama yet, since it forces nighttime when entering the Promenade. Discharge Edwin to the CC.
Drop from party test. Testing (we are currently in Docks district, in front of Harper Headquarters) the dropping of the new NPC’s;
Dar: drop from party and he does not initiate any dialogue with the PC, just stands there. When you talk to him he gives the dialogue you might expect upon leaving. Plenty of good choices for Dar. ‘Stay put’, ‘Go to the CC’, ‘Rejoin party’.
Hrothgar: dropping Hrothgar initiates more complex dialogue, but the choices are still fine. First is ‘Rejoin’ and ‘Leave’. Next set after ‘Leave’ is ‘Stay here’ or ‘Go to an Inn’. It doesn’t define what Inn… Will he be in any Inn I go to?
Also there seems a minor grammar error in the PC’s dialogue choice #2 when you talk to him again after telling him to basically ‘stay here’.
PC: “I have no need for you in the group as of yet Hrothgar, but after seeing you stood there I thought to come over and greet you my friend.” I think it should be ‘standing’.
Melora: Whoa! Cannot drop Melora! I get only the one dialogue option of basically ‘Sorry, please stay’. Is this intentional? She must really like me or something…
Test finished, resuming normal game (everyone still in party)…
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JohnTheMutt
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA
Posted: 28 Jan 2005 08:00 am Post subject:
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Another bug, I am not sure though, is that Dar is completely customizable. Other NPC’s are not, only the PC and Dar in my party. Is this right? Shouldn’t the PC have that ability only? I can clear Dar’s biography, appearance, color, etc… I don’t think I should be able to do that…
Running around like crazy here (the following could be painful to read )…
Leaving the Docks to see Sir Sarles in... The Government District... Spoke to Llarsh about Valygar. Have Sir Sarles quest. Off to the… Promenade… Talk to Jerlia for the Ilithium. We want both so we get the info for her contact and have her make us some alloy… Off to CC & talk to Ungar, also got Wellyn’s bear from Lynis. Head to Temple district to talk to Sir Ryan Trawl & get quest for Anarg. Bridge district… Reynald wants Anarg’s cup… back to Trawl… back to Reynald. Anarg defeated… Neb defeated, have ilithium. Back to Trawl for reward. To Graveyard & give bear to Wellyn… To the City Gates, defeated Lich there. Discouraged Tiivo & Aulava from seeing each other. Bad kids! Talked to Flydian for Trademeet quest. Back to Docks to get Ama quest after talking with Lathan… Waukeen’s Promenade, Ama & Sir Greschal defeated. Del after Sansuki, killed Del… Slept in the Mithrest Inn but Jerlia still not back yet. To the Slums… stash items in CC. Back to Gov. dist., gave Insp. Brega Neb’s head. Head to Temple district and free Haer’Dalis from Mekrath. Back to Promenade for fake itlithium from Jerlia, and finished Sir Sarles quest. New quest for Dawn Ring. To Docks… 2nd thieves quest about Kretor and his pickpockets. Back to Temple district and into sewers. Moving through Unseeing eye quest… burning up time till dark… We get halfway through and finally we’re going to the Graveyard District to see…
Bodhi (whew!)…
Okay, we accept Bodhi’s offer and start out on her first task. We go down to her crypt and get the Mace of Disruption. Head out first to the…
Slums…
Here we finish the kidnapper quest at night and get the silver Panatloons. Next, we stash some items in the CC and then obtain the Dawn ring for the temple of Lathander quest. Leave to the…
Docks…
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JohnTheMutt
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA
Posted: 29 Jan 2005 05:42 pm Post subject:
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We get the Crate from Mook and report back to Bodhi for the 2nd task. Here again we have two choices: Rescue Palern Flynn or kill Vulova. Each are presented obscurely (Hero’s task and Unseemly job) at first. We pick the the Unseemly task and off to Vulova house in the…
Government District…
We get the dialogue with Vulova that Leina is protected by guards and ‘can we please reunite her with Govan when we get her?’, then he sicks his guards on us, leaves and we have a good ol’ fight. Afterwards, we plant the evidence in the fountain and then head into…
Vulova’s Maze...
Hmmm… just like the Thieves Maze from BG1. Great place for Clairvoyance… Wow, this maze is tough! It’s a nice challenge.
The guards occasionally make monster sounds, similar to the Skeletons in the BG1 version. Seems like they ought to cough or make some other more human sound…
The assassins cheat pretty bad though. They can see right through invisible and non-detection. Melora is getting hit pretty hard here...
The reflection shield won’t reflect the ‘Arrows of Ice’ that the guards fire off. I think that’s a bug with the shield perhaps, I’ll test it out later.
About ½ of the way thru we head out of the maze to sell everything at the CC and stash stuff there as well. Back in the maze, we get 2/3rds of the way to Leina and need to exit, sell goods, and come back again…
We arrive at the end of the Maze and have the fight to release Leina. Wow! What a good npc! She has some awesome special abilities and items.
I am going to test two paths here. One path is to take her into the party to Samuel and the other is to have her meet us at the Five Flagons Inn, as per the dialogue choices.
Path one: Taking her into the party and heading toward the Five Flagons Inn.
We put both Vulova’s Amulet and Leina’s Amulet together in her inventory and then get an excellent amulet in return. She equips this and then we head out to clean up the rest of the Maze.
Undetectable Trap located at X=2130, Y=1450, Area=TT0080. It does allow a save against its effects however.
Leina has a whole lot to say in the text window (I’m pretty sure it’s her selection text) that I don’t think belongs to her. There is no verbal component and most of what she is saying is completely out of context with the moment. Accalia had a similar problem in NeJ1. Vlad, I am going to just send you print screens, because I don’t know of an easier way to communicate this problem to you. Sorry if the emails are big.
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JohnTheMutt
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA
Posted: 01 Feb 2005 08:35 am Post subject:
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We pick dialogue which results in a fight with Govan, who is no pushover. Interestingly he drops his ring, which states in the description that it is something he gave you that would be recognized by Killian(sp?), and get your money.
We finish up the Maze and leave to the CC with our huge stash of items. Heh, this maze has made us all very wealthy. We all head to the…
Bridge District…When we enter, Samuel right away starts dialogue with Leina. She mentions that she is leaving and Samuel says he’ll miss her but wishes her all the best. There is no reward from Samuel for rescuing Leina. This is probably because when I last talked with him, it was as if I gave up the search. So it may be because of that.
In Leina’s room, (I left her chest locked as per Samuel mentioning that she didn’t like anyone rifling through her goods) we found that Leina cannot open her own chest. It might be a good idea to somehow allow this. A key perhaps? I’m not positive on the method. Anyway, Melora opens her chest for her, and we get her items; Viol of the Hollow Men, The Dire Old Lute of Pellon Kay & some jewelry.
We make our way down to the basement since we have the portal gem in our inventory and we’ll finish Haer’ Dalis’es quest.
The ‘Heal’ ability of Leina’s pendant only seems to ‘cure moderate wounds’ or some such. Is this correct? I was expecting the actual ‘Heal’ clerical ability.
After finishing the Planar Prison, we come back, talk with Samuel then Higgold and get the playhouse. Next we leave for the Docks where we sell some items to our fence in our thieves’ stronghold, and have Cromwell forge us the Mace of Disruption +2.
Off to see Bodhi… On the way in we meet up with Uncle Lester & Nevin, always humorous, and talk to Wellyn’s parents for more exp.
We talk with Bodhi, and since we didn’t actually kill Vulova, we don’t get any experience. Leina becomes very upset with the PC…
(Humor) Here’s the dialogue choice I wanted to say to her…
PC: “Leina, I realize you’ve been through quite a bit lately, however, will you please listen to my side before you pre-judge my character? Firstly, we took on the task of finding you well before we accepted employment from Bodhi. This task has been fraught with much danger, dead ends, and giant leaps of intuition in order to divine the method by which we might reach you, which leads to my second point! Only through Bodhi might we have entered your father’s estate. No choice!”
Bodhi: (Laughs)
PC: “Believe me we tried everything else! Not even Minsc could open your father’s door. That #$&! DOOR!”
Minsc: “Minsc’s great strength has failed him! For once, the righteous butt kicker got kicked by a door! Ahhh Boo, what are we to do…”
PC: “Thirdly… Did you miss the fact that your father is still alive!? No? Then please stay focused on that when considering our true motive. We had no intention of killing your father…EVER!! We just wanted to rescue YOU! Which, I am now beginning to wonder if it was ever worth it. Look, we didn’t even gain a level after telling Bodhi of our job. Now does that sound like the actions and reward for wickedness?”
Leina: “Gain a lev…?”
PC: “Wait! I am not finished! My Fourth point! (*finger stabbing air*) Do you actually think I enjoy doing these tasks for this…this…this monster! (*points at Bodhi*) This vampire! I’m <alignment> for heaven’s sake!”
Bodhi: (Yawns…)
PC: “When all this time Hrothgar is bugging me to go to Ulcaster… Melora has a bounty hunter after her… Numerous quests from numerous individuals are presently wanting… Not to mention your father’s hellacious maze we slogged through with guards just waiting for us behind trap after trap… And the countless times we had to go back and forth to sell loot because we didn’t have a bottomless Bag of Holding!!! Ack! The indignity of it all!”
Leina: “Loot!?”
PC: “Er…never mind that about the loot… And, did it occur to your sense of logic that if we had really intended to kill your father, then why oh why didn’t we just pawn you off to Govan when he appeared later? Hunh? For a reward that we STILL to this day have not received!! Seems rather un-mercenary of us if you ask me… Or are you so mired in your own cynicism that you can’t see a good intention if it upped and hit you in the face… like Dar’s flail did one time… dang that hurt too.”
Dar: “Heh, sorry about that <Charname>…”
PC: “That’s okay Dar…just watch where you swing that thing will you? Well Leina, I just hope that you’ll think a little bit about what I’ve said the next time you want to jump all over me and my character. Because right about now I’m feeling rather UNDER-APPRECIATED HERE!!!”
Bodhi: “Ohhhh… Poor baby…”
Leina: “I…I’ll think more about what you’ve said <charname>. You bring up many points I… I have not considered. Thanks for telling me these things.”
Heh, night folks.
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larrienne
Moderator
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 83
Location: UK
Posted: 01 Feb 2005 09:33 am Post subject:
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JohnTheMutt wrote:
(Humor) Here’s the dialogue choice I wanted to say to her…
PC: “Leina, I realize you’ve been through quite a bit lately, however, will you please listen to my side before you pre-judge my character? Firstly, we took on the task of finding you well before we accepted employment from Bodhi. This task has been fraught with much danger, dead ends, and giant leaps of intuition in order to divine the method by which we might reach you, which leads to my second point! Only through Bodhi might we have entered your father’s estate. No choice!”
Bodhi: (Laughs)
PC: “Believe me we tried everything else! Not even Minsc could open your father’s door. That #$&! DOOR!”
Minsc: “Minsc’s great strength has failed him! For once, the righteous butt kicker got kicked by a door! Ahhh Boo, what are we to do…”
PC: “Thirdly… Did you miss the fact that your father is still alive!? No? Then please stay focused on that when considering our true motive. We had no intention of killing your father…EVER!! We just wanted to rescue YOU! Which, I am now beginning to wonder if it was ever worth it. Look, we didn’t even gain a level after telling Bodhi of our job. Now does that sound like the actions and reward for wickedness?”
Leina: “Gain a lev…?”
PC: “Wait! I am not finished! My Fourth point! (*finger stabbing air*) Do you actually think I enjoy doing these tasks for this…this…this monster! (*points at Bodhi*) This vampire! I’m <alignment> for heaven’s sake!”
Bodhi: (Yawns…)
PC: “When all this time Hrothgar is bugging me to go to Ulcaster… Melora has a bounty hunter after her… Numerous quests from numerous individuals are presently wanting… Not to mention your father’s hellacious maze we slogged through with guards just waiting for us behind trap after trap… And the countless times we had to go back and forth to sell loot because we didn’t have a bottomless Bag of Holding!!! Ack! The indignity of it all!”
Leina: “Loot!?”
PC: “Er…never mind that about the loot… And, did it occur to your sense of logic that if we had really intended to kill your father, then why oh why didn’t we just pawn you off to Govan when he appeared later? Hunh? For a reward that we STILL to this day have not received!! Seems rather un-mercenary of us if you ask me… Or are you so mired in your own cynicism that you can’t see a good intention if it upped and hit you in the face… like Dar’s flail did one time… dang that hurt too.”
Dar: “Heh, sorry about that <Charname>…”
PC: “That’s okay Dar…just watch where you swing that thing will you? Well Leina, I just hope that you’ll think a little bit about what I’ve said the next time you want to jump all over me and my character. Because right about now I’m feeling rather UNDER-APPRECIATED HERE!!!”
Bodhi: “Ohhhh… Poor baby…”
Leina: “I…I’ll think more about what you’ve said <charname>. You bring up many points I… I have not considered. Thanks for telling me these things.”
Heh, night folks.
We all have ideas of what we would like our PC to say on occaision John, unfortunately I can't get inside every players head so if you have something you would really to see in any dialogue, please fell free to submit it to Vlad and maybe he will be able to fit it in with in game responses already scripted.
A helping hand to write is always appreciated, especially once a player gets a feel for the NPC's and can write their responses, keeping true to their already established characters, and sometimes even their lack of the use of grammar when speaking.
To have NPC's speaking fluently in one conversation and then lapsing into banter which includes grammar deviations will ljust look like sloppy writing, but please, give it a bash John. You may always submit anything you aren't too sure of to me, and I can check that the NPC. would indeed speak in the manner in which you have written.
_________________
May Fortune smile upon you, and may the hand of Fate be with you always.
Last edited by larrienne on 01 Feb 2005 11:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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Vlad
Admin
Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 254
Posted: 01 Feb 2005 10:06 am Post subject:
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John I understand your frustration . Moreover more troubles are waiting for you when the father learns you have murdered his son. The whole city will be launched to chase you . I would prefer to save his life and give Leina away to him for a while for good XP and HP rewards from all sides. Then you'll learn who is Killian etc. If you have already switched to the evil path then why wouldn't you go this way till the end? It is probably because you still play the good role. That is why you didn't kill Vulova who is actually a coward and one of the biggest mafiosi in the city. Anyway there are several paths which you may wish to test that would minimise or maximise your frustration from the quest.
[EDIT] John I am ready to add this dialogue to the game if you wish.
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JohnTheMutt
Expert
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA
Posted: 02 Feb 2005 06:31 am Post subject:
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larrienne wrote:
We all have ideas of what we would like our PC to say on occaision John, unfortunately I can't get inside every players head so if you have something you would really to see in any dialogue, please fell free to submit it to Vlad and maybe he will be able to fit it in with in game responses already scripted.
A helping hand to write is always appreciated, especially once a player gets a feel for the NPC's and can write their responses, keeping true to their already established characters, and sometimes even their lack of the use of grammar when speaking.
To have NPC's speaking fluently in one conversation and then lapsing into banter which includes grammar deviations will ljust look like sloppy writing, but please, give it a bash John. You may always submit anything you aren't too sure of to me, and I can check that the NPC. would indeed speak in the manner in which you have written.
Heh, thanks Larrienne, it was really me just trying to be funny though and seeming half-way serious, not necessarily a dialogue suggestion. But, I wouldn't mind seeing it, or some portion of it, in the game! Especially for a PC that took the path I took... No experience award... no gold award... trying to be good on the evil path... etc. Heh, kind of like a consolation prize...
I was playing late last night and planned to talk to Bodhi just before saving and retiring for the evening...when Leina's dialogue kicked in. By the way it's PERFECT! At least I think so, because it was definitely consistent with her personality. Outraged!! I couldn't even quit the game until I got the retort to her off my chest, and then I started laughing at myself and how over-the-top I reacted to her dialogue.
It made me think of characters in the game that you meet, who are upset, and how funny they are. For example; the man you meet in the Adventurer's Mart who isn't on speaking terms with Ribald because he felt overcharged. Hilarious! I have to talk to him and send him to the back of the store every game...
Also, any ideas (they're almost all extemporaneous... ) that I write or submit, I hope that you and Vlad would feel free to alter, correct, accept, discard, etc. as you both see fit. In that way, it passes quality control!
Vlad wrote:
John I understand your frustration .
Ahhhh... sympathy at last... Thanks Vlad! It's like a cool drink of water after a long desert hike...
Quote:
Moreover more troubles are waiting for you when the father learns you have murdered his son. The whole city will be launched to chase you .
Yay!! I was going to talk to Hrothgar about Ulcaster but now I have to stick around for this!! Do you really mean the WHOLE city Vlad?
John quotes Vlad again... Vlad wrote:
The whole city will be launched to chase you
Ohhh boy...
Quote:
I would prefer to save his life and give Leina away to him for a while for good XP and HP rewards from all sides. Then you'll learn who is Killian etc. If you have already switched to the evil path then why wouldn't you go this way till the end?
Heh, very good suggestion and a question I have been definitely asking myself lately.
Quote:
It is probably because you still play the good role.
You know this really had me rolling... Thanks Vlad! It made me think about when I played IWD II quite awhile back and came across a book in the monks retreat with a title that went something like; "Your Neutral Evil...just accept it", of course I get this book while I'm hoarding loot, maximising my experience gains, etc. So this just puts me to tears, I'm laughing so hard (I know...I take this game waaayy to serious). I went to work the next day laughing still...
Quote:
Anyway there are several paths which you may wish to test that would minimise or maximise your frustration from the quest.
I'm definitely going to try some of those other paths! Is it Neutral Evil to reload?
Quote:
[EDIT] John I am ready to add this dialogue to the game if you wish.
Sure Vlad! Thanks, and like I mention in reference to Larrienne's post, feel free to do with it anything that's needed.
JohnTheMutt
Expert
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA
Posted: 04 Feb 2005 08:51 am Post subject:
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I broke down and installed Craig’s bottomless containers mod. It is a Weidu mod that puts a merchant into the crooked crane in the city gates area, who sells some bottomless versions of standard containers such as scroll cases, gem bags, etc. I…I just couldn’t take it anymore and had to indulge my obsessive compulsive need to save and store everything I come across… I’m the worst kind of packrat, heh.
So, we head to the Docks and take out Aran Linvail. Complete that quest. We’re close to finishing Chapter 3. After selling some items we head back to Bodhi and get the reward for finishing the Shadow Thieves. We hold off on leaving (to next Chapter) however and start to finish some quests. This is so that Leina can get the experience while she’s in the party.
Finish the Unseeing Eye quest. Finish the Dawn Ring quest for church of Lathander...
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JohnTheMutt
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 114
Location: USA
Posted: 05 Feb 2005 10:42 am Post subject:
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Okay, at this point I am going to reload the game to the path just upon entering the Vulova estate and try out several different paths. This one will be to kill Vulova, NOT take Leina into the party initially and then try to find her at the Five Flagons. So here goes…
We finish off Vulova and I love the dialogue choice #3 that you get after you tell Vulova you’re going to kill him. It starts off; “Yea gods man!...” Hilarious. I love it.
Vulova goes down and we labor our way through the maze and to Leina. We pick dialogue option 3 as the last choice which goes something like; ‘…We don’t have room for you in our party right now, but we will check on you back at the Inn…’ Leina does not make any actions to go anywhere, but just stands there. Also, Govan is not at the entrance to the maze...
Still we make our way to the Five Flagons and talk to Samuel. Samuel however has nothing to say…perhaps this was because I am still playing the path in which Samuel accepted my failure to find Leina from earlier. Never-the-less we rest and still no Leina. We rest for a more than a day and still no Leina… Two more days and Leina’s a no show. Perhaps I did something wrong? Leina never makes it to even talk to Samuel? Is she intercepted by Govan?... I even went back to a save in which I go straight to her room and see if she shows up since she said she would be there right away. Still a no show, and her footlocker is still locked…
Path #3; Reload… Just before Leina, and this time we take her into the party. Meet Govan at the entrance and it is good to see that his conversation takes a bit different path than before, since we killed Vulova, he mentions this to Leina. Leina is understandably shocked.
We take the conversation path to have Govan take her for 20,000 gp. He tells me to talk with Samuel and then meet with his man Killian. Leina has a parting verbal shot to take at the PC as she leaves. We head to the Five Flagons Inn…
Samuel has much more to say and we pick a dialogue choice that is not too much of an outright lie and Samuel seems content and gives us the 1000gp reward… but instead it’s only 20gold…
Next we go to speak with the *thug* in the corner, who we suspect is Killian… it is, and we pick the options that eventually cause us to fight. They’re very well supplied… Nothing from this point directs us further along back to Govan, so reload…
Now we pick dialogue that will take us back to the Vulova estate and take care of Govan’s parents. We let Killian know that he’d better pay us the 1000 gold for his own life… A problem here, his dialogue indicates that he gives us the gold but we never get it…
In any event, we take off back to the Vulova estate. Another note is that there doesn’t seem to be anymore journal entries lately about finding Leina and everything since that time. Not so far anyways… We enter the Vulova estate and Govan and his parents are there. Leina shows up and tells the father what happened, also we pick dialogue that would result in all the Duvaines living but we are paid 10,000 gold. Again… no gold, even after dialogue indicates we are to receive it… Leina actually speaks to us!? Wow... I wasn’t expecting that… and she says she is going to the Five Flagons and that we should follow. Now we get the journal update