For the pst few years almost all custom NPCs come with their own romance plot. In fact there's so much of them that I doubt anyone has ever managed to develop each of them till the end. That's why I am considering making Azure's quests non-romance reliable, which would make them available to the gamer regardless of the fact that they did not choose to romance her. I am also considering of completely getting rid of the romance, which would allow me to focus what little is left of my spare time (which lately is about zero hours per day) on developing the quests and banters and releasing the mod in the near future.

Actually, what is left to be done is to finish the plane quest (see the screenshot) and to add a ToB quest and summoning dialogue option for the pocket plane, as well as the entire banter.

I dont play romances when I play NPC's anyways so IMHO a romance is not necessary.

ronin

I think another good female romance would do the game justice.

I, for one, am looking forward to PPG's Nalia.

I think a romance is needed. Your Azure seems so interesting, a girl in need of help... how would you not consider to fall in love with her? I also think that her quests may not be for only romance path. You can try a friendship path or something. If that means to wait until your have the time to fininsh it, don't worry, people interested in your mod will wait. BTW congratulations for your future novel, I'm interested in reading it.

put me in the no catagory. I like to kill dragons not plan for a wedding

I like your style. I'd be sure to put a dragon in the plane especially for you but Magnus has a point too. Maby I should patch up a playable version without the romance and then release something like Azure v2.0 when the romance is implemented. The problem is that romance have proven to be very difficult to work with and I for one find them time consuming, and as I stated - time is what I lack with all the things I have to write this semester in different areas - right of speech, political systems in Europe, etc. Hell, I don't even know what to start with.

My best bet is that I could finish the mod without romance by New Year, and the romance, unless I get some help with it, won't be comming shortly afterwads.

YOu only have to make one version (with a romance), if someone doesnt like to play it all they gotta do is kill the romance (cant be that hard) or just ignore it and click your way thru the dialogues. (what I do with all romances) I also like to play the game and not plan a wedding, killin stuff and getting treasure and solvin the riddles is the most fun.

ronin

Release a version without a romance if you are afraid of the delay the mod would get. A romance is a lot of work (I am talking from experience) and if your time is limited atm the mod release could be delayed by a year easily this way.
A version with some PC talks, banters and quests would be an NPC mod I would consider worth downloading (not very fond of one-day NPCs).

Well, I like to wed girls . And I would like to wed Azure if it could be completly released. I know this can take a lot of time so i will accept that it is only a non-romanceable mod. Just as Kindrek, Kido or Yasraena. These are great mods and don't have a romance.
So if you don't have the time, don't make it a romanceable character but PLEASE make good quests, good interjections, good banters... a great mod as in my opinion Azure can be!.

P.S: I also like killin' bad guys, looting, becoming more rich... to buy pretty things to my girlfriend!

Don't get me wrong. There will be a romance, but not in the initial release. It will just take more time than I originally expected. When I first posted the Readme thread, I said that the mod was going to be ready by the end of Sept. 2005. But then some things happaned in my private life, which occupied my free time and now I am waiting for the hollydays to start working on it day and night. I could ask s.o. for help, but most people here are already preocupied with their own mods, and there's no point in burdening others, just because I cannot live up to my own expectations.

So, Magnus, don't worry - there will be a romance. It just won't be here very soon.

P.S.

If you buy you girl gifts in real life, make sure you find a job you get money for. It's safer than killing bad guys.

This way lays emptiness - take it from someone who did such a thing and knows now she was a fool. Don't leave anything for later - do everything at one. Otherwise after you *have* spent the time on doing the romance there won't be enough audience. It is my experience that people are more excited about the projects that promise much, spoil little, and don't release until it's done (or ever).

Ok, ok, I was joking! In real like i would not kill anyone (although i can think or two or three...) And I'm working (more/less) so I can buy her a lot of things.
And, with all the respect for your work, and knowing anything about modding or programming (appart from the video to record a film ) I agree with Domi. I think it's better to develope the whole mod (with romance included if it's going to have it) than a partially completed mod. But as I said it's not necessary to include a romance to make your mod fantastic. You modders have your own life and life is the foremost important thing.
Bye, and keep working! (whenever you can, of course)

I'm working on a romanceable NPC as well, and I have to admit progress is going slow enough even without the romance having to be written and coded. An NPC can indeed be very good, even without a romance, but if a romance (or lack thereof) was part of the original plan, go for it. It doesn't have to be finished before Christmas or whatever.

What you could do is release a SoA portion first, including the NPC, romance, banters/interjections, quests and the like, and save the ToB-related stuff for later (assuming there is going to be ToB-related things for Azure). Several mods already did this, including Nathaniel and Kivan of Shilmista, and I'm probably going to do that too.

case in point, wikeade, he is an excellent npc with no romance. I like him because he keeps his mouth shut and does what I tell him to do, namely killing shit and healing party members and I dont have to worry about him grabbin my butt and I dont have to worry about being nice to him or buying him flowers.





ronin

rofl
exactly

A romanceable NPC whom you do not romance (click on him/her and say "Shut up, kiddo") is exactly the same as a non-romanceable NPC.

Nope, that's not what KoSh did.

What I did was exceptionally stupid - I decided to do a 1 day NPC when I was in the middle of a huge project (BG1NPC). Then I compounded that mistake by continuing to add content to it. Finally, now, I am getting close to finished product for SoA part -with about 5 times more content than there was in the initial 1 day project - and that is after some thousand downloads. The only thing that offsets my stupidity is that I *had* to do it or forever cry that I missed my chance to work on Kivan. So I am working on it with the persistence of a termite chewing through a wall. I think, my strength of will is insufficient to carry me through ToB though. I have other ideas that interest me more, and I desperately lack time.

In my honest to god opinion it's too late to seek glory in BG2 NPC modding; so you have a choice of making it good w/o giving a damn about the releases, or making it fast to get rid of it. Half-measures aren't going to bring neither glory, nor the feeling of accomplishement.

Well, I'm glad you like his obedience. He *is* Lawful Neutral, after all.



I see. My apologies, then.



Seeking glory has become hard, I'll agree to that. If that's the reason why someone's modding, they'd better present something good, which is becoming difficult with all the new mods popping up everywhere.

In my opinion, the most important thing, or one of the most important things, is enjoying what you do, be it modding or something else. I'm never going to like the community aspect of modding again, I'm afraid, but I do enjoy writing for my mods, and seeing the end results. For my own enjoyment, I do what I do.

As a BG series player and a inconditional mod lover I would disagree with the fact that it does not worth the effort to seek glory in modding. It is true that every day new mods pop up and say "hello" but it is very clear, at least for me, when a mod is a great mod or when a mod is going to be a great mod, or when a mod is a real s..t.
Every time a new mod appears I want to play it. If they provide me some entertainment I will not play them again, but if they make me happy every moment of its quest, its romances or its lets say spells, I will always install that mod, and I will be waiting its modder next mod only to see if it is as good as the other.
So, you modders have to seek glory because you can still get it and you will be able to get it. For a long time. Examples of mods that IMHO can achieve glory, as can their modders are Lost Crossroads, Fade Npc ToB portion, Callum Npc, Lands of Intrigue, Return to Windspear Hills or Azure Npc. Just make a great story, try to eliminate all the possible bugs and be sure that a lot of people will always install your mod, being me one of them.

Hope springs eternal.

The words were "try to eliminate all possible bugs" not "eliminate them completely."

I agree, btw, that glory & length of days is still possible within the modding community.

domi's quote was
too late to seek glory in BG2 NPC modding
since bg2 is awfully full of all of them. taking in concideration all of them from bg, releasd mods, and ones under delvolpment.

maybe that is what she likes about wtp /plug

I think that it is never too late, if

- quality-wise, NPC has at least a semblance of personality - and most existing characters do, even one-day characters;
- quantity-wise, Bioware's level at the very least, with or without a romance;
- non-linear writing, i.e. at the very least "Yes/No/I do not have time for this" instead of one PC reply/five NPC-is-talking blocks in the row;
- the mod has been throughly proofread;
- the mod has been throughly tested;
- first line-voicing and full soundset voicing as a minimum.

Such a NPC mod will be welcome, I think.

Note that I was talking about newly created characters, only. With Bioware characters/add-ons to these characters, it is more tricky. Voicing Sola mod now, for example, is probably not a good idea.

I don't think that being in the modding business just for the fame is a good thing. You have to love what you are doing and you need to poses this rare quality called selflessnes - doing things that you do not expect to be payed for; and you should sometimes ignore the fact that your creation might not receive the recognition you think it deserves. "The Blaze of Glory" aproach might seriously damage a good modding idea, at least I think so. You try to do everything better, and better, and better... until it's all a little too much, and the original idea that previously looked so good, becomes something extorted. I could give a few examples, but someone might feel ofended, so I am shutting up.

And that is exactly why there is no reason to release half-finished mods. When it is a labor of love you don't care who if any plays it apart from you.

errrr confused here

The only reason to release the mod without finishing it properly is so that other people got it earlier than when it's done. If you do the mod for yourself, you don't worry when other people will start playing it (or play it at all for that matter). You have it on your drive and tinker with it to your heart's content and release it when you are sure that you don't want to add anything else.

Domi's words as always have merit and wisdom.

I don't know... when I see: "I don't care how many people will play it, I made it for myself" (and I've seen it on the forums several times, at CoM and RPGDungeon for sure), I feel a cold shiver, somehow. I want to feel loved, cared about, feel that mod creators thought of little old me when they designed it... at least, a little bit.

well there is always that too.

The golden mean is to find the balance. I like the mods I am developing, and I don't include things that I don't like, but I also don't include things which I know about that most players will not like them. The feedback and needs of players are very important. Long ago I made a few mods (tweak, item, spell pack) by player requests which I've never played, but those were rather just small mods of a starter modder basically.

Kulyok, I'll remember to be be thinking of good old you when I work on that one

This time I have to disagree with Baronius. Even if there's only one player that wants a certain component of a mod, and the others totally hate it, I'll consider releasing it for the sake of that single BG fan who likes it (Of course, you can exclude the improved bardsong from the list, since apparently nobody likes it, not even me).

Depends on your tastes, too. I mean, if you and your one fan wants only hugs and kisses in your romance, but a thousand of fans would like explicit sex scenes, (or the other way around), you'd probably not listen to them.

men.... cant live with em, cant live without em, but if i had a choice, the shed is over there, stay out meh house

Actually, when I started working on Azure NPC, I thought I'd probably add an aditional component, which adds a 18-rated flirting system, but now I'm not sure that the idea is very apropriate, baring in mind the age of some of our fans (Irenicus, in that number too ).

Yeah, it seems we disagree here. I also complete any request of individual players as well (e.g. once someone wanted a Club +1 specifically, and I added it), if it is not something that most of the players would not welcome at all / would hate. The possibility of letting the player decide which parts to install is not something I prefer, I like to release my mods as a whole. Naturally all mods (including my works) have parts that are liked by a player while not preferred by another, so when required, I support the concept about letting the players to choose. But in my primary modding area, in story & quest creation, I don't think there can be such parts that cannot be ignored by those who don't like them (i.e. that they cannot just say: "I don't like this but it's just a few minutes anyway").

I think it depends on the nature of the mod, Baronuis. When it comes to mods, which add new areas, quests and NPCs to the game, I agree that "at once" istallation is a better choice, since they more or less represent the modder who has made them. On the other hand, rule tweaks, item stores and kits should be left to the player's choice for many reasons - some like overpowered classes and items, some not; some like Weapons For All styled rule tweaks some don't, etc. We shouldn't also forget that many mods aren't compatible with each other, and that the number of kits is limited, which is an issue too.