Updated Sahaguin City Problems, bg time?, Missing NPC's and unfinished sub-quests, items, etc Options

[Bereth Darkides]

The Wizard that Hires you to get into the harpers stronghold gets killed yes by the spy, but,,, in my case he doesn't/hasn't come back. ( like he normally does)

Next, The warrior who is supposed to be in the cells is not there, at all and nor are the whining dudes outside talking about how they were beaten by a girl..

I only intalled T.S 7.02 and baldurdash

Wasssup wit dat?

Why are core game factors being overwritten or removed?

I mean I could CLUA them in, but this might damage further sub-quests,, "seen it before".. any idea's?

UPDATE:

Go to last reply.

This post has been edited by Bereth Darkides: Apr 7 2009, 03:12 AM

[Ardanis]

What you describe looks much like TDD content.

whining dudes outside talking about how they were beaten by a girl..

Isn't her name supposed to be Shar-Teel by chance? If yes then you definitely confuse TDD's content with vanilla's.

[Bereth Darkides]

Other missing sub-quests:

Fatherless child in the graveyard district

Harpers Recall for Jeheira (when they insist she answers for accompanying me)

Bandits Threaten Jaheira

I'll make note of others as they come along.. Any idea what is causing this?

(Installed games: SoA + ToB + ToB official patch + Baldurdash-WeiDU v1.66 + TS v7.02 )
yes in that order

[Bereth Darkides]

What you describe looks much like TDD content.

whining dudes outside talking about how they were beaten by a girl..

Isn't her name supposed to be Shar-Teel by chance? If yes then you definitely confuse TDD's content with vanilla's.

Right,, I forgot she was TDD.. but the others are core quests of baldur's are they not?

[Ardanis]

I've played TS 3-4 times and I'm 99% certain it does not affect in almost any way any vanilla quest. And I highly doubt that it have changed in later versions of the mod.
I'd suggest having Dan Simpson's walkthrough at hand for a reference whether or not something is wrong with game.

Harpers Recall for Jeheira (when they insist she answers for accompanying me)

Bandits Threaten Jaheira

If you romance her, then the bandit encounter won't happend until the lovetalk variable reaches somewhere ~25. Consequently, her quest won't start till then as well.

Fatherless child. The only child I can think about is the little spirit who wants his teddy bear back from his murderer and appears only at certain night hours.


PS Just in case. Speaking about TDD I meant the part with Xzar not getting up as well.

This post has been edited by Ardanis: Mar 15 2009, 08:43 PM

[Vlad]

I don't know what you are talking about. Neither BD nor TS intereferes with the original quests. So, please check your installation.

[Bereth Darkides]

I've played TS 3-4 times and I'm 99% certain it does not affect in almost any way any vanilla quest. And I highly doubt that it have changed in later versions of the mod.
I'd suggest having Dan Simpson's walkthrough at hand for a reference whether or not something is wrong with game.

Harpers Recall for Jeheira (when they insist she answers for accompanying me)

Bandits Threaten Jaheira

If you romance her, then the bandit encounter won't happend until the lovetalk variable reaches somewhere ~25. Consequently, her quest won't start till then as well.

Fatherless child. The only child I can think about is the little spirit who wants his teddy bear back from his murderer and appears only at certain night hours.


PS Just in case. Speaking about TDD I meant the part with Xzar not getting up as well.

the fatherless child orphaned... and the Paladin that takes her in....

[Sikret]

The orphan child is there during certain hours in the day. Either check the district frequently or simply rest there and wait for the child to spawn. It's such even in the vanilla game.

[Ardanis]

Ah, that one. They don't sit at the graveyard all the daytime, only at 7-9 and 13-15 hours. I had trouble finding them once or twice too.

So, it's pretty straghtforward that you have everything working fine, just don't remember correctly every detail

PS Sikret has beaten me, while I was checking up the time.

This post has been edited by Ardanis: Mar 16 2009, 12:47 AM

[Bereth Darkides]

ok,, update.. Core game features managed to fix themselves in time so all ok in that part. Now I'm off to the Island, and after the first few battles i see the old habits rehashing of over balance.

Since when can not a +3 Katana harm a basilisk, or even a greater basilisk?
Also, I can't find the entrance to the other portions of the caves.. next point,, Traps that CANNOT be disarmed?

WTF..

I actually have a good question next. What is the point of creating the game with extreme conditions and super monsters that are NOT core game creatures nor follow core game rules when you yourself play core game?

Point is, people will come on here looking for answers to beat the scenario basically making your efforts moot!

I'll find it, I don't want any answers, that is the way I play. I like knowing I solved it by myself, but this is taking the fun right out of playing it ! The quest starts with a 24hour deadline to save the girl, and in order to beat the creatures I have to sleep at least 4-5 times to replenish spells etc.

I refuse to cheat, in fact I never cheat in any game!! But if Katchiko dies because of this, you'll be hearing from Yoshimo because he'll be wanting your ass!

[Ardanis]

I can't find the entrance to the other portions of the caves

It can be problematic at times, yes. If you're having troubles with the cave level that contains chests that spawn elementals when you open them, then in it's SWern part there's a passage to the rest of location. It's undistinguishible from the impassable walls, so you have to move the cursor around the NE corner of that SWern cavern, eventually you'll notice that it doesn't change to 'impassable' type.
If you mean 'how to get to another level', then I can't be of too much help, since I've played TS long enough to forget the details. Try CTRL-4, it highlights traps' and entrances' locations.

I actually have a good question next. What is the point of creating the game with extreme conditions and super monsters that are NOT core game creatures nor follow core game rules when you yourself play core game?

Wasn't it already talked about in NEJ subforum? Same author generally makes the same (or similar) content. That being said, the policy of modmakers hosted at BWL was 'don't play it if you don't like it' last time I heard. Not that I personally agree, but that's another matter.

This post has been edited by Ardanis: Mar 26 2009, 07:44 PM

[Sikret]

Once again we have the same story with this particular player. He didn't know some very simple facts about the vanilla game (such as the fact that the orphan child is not always there in the graveyard) and started to shout "bugs, bugs!". Once he was corrected and advised, he left and returned later just to pretend that he is a veteran player to give us lessons about the game's balance (and all this only a couple of posts below the one in which he proved himself to be a novice).

The funny part of the story is that TS has never been considered too difficult by players. In fact, if we want to be nitpicking about TS, we can actually say that the mod's battles are probably a bit too easy compared to the powerful items it introduces to the game.

I don't want to sound harsh, but this is not the first (or even the second or third) time this player behaves in this way regarding Vlad's mods (false bug reports plus hilarious comments about difficulty of a mod which is not difficult at all). Had he barked at IA's difficulty, I wouldn't have reacted in this way.

[Senka]

The quest starts with a 24hour deadline to save the girl, and in order to beat the creatures I have to sleep at least 4-5 times to replenish spells etc.

Really? May be you need to change the difficulty of game or your tactics? Try normal level, for example

[Ardanis]

difficulty of a mod which is not difficult at all

Well, let's say that while it may be not too difficult for you, me, Vlad or Senka, there can be people to whom it's hard. I remember playing BG1 for the first time and swearing every time that wizard on the FAI's stairs sent me to hell.



What I'll say next isn't related to TS directly, it's a theoretical outline.

he left and returned later just to pretend that he is a veteran player to give us lessons about the game's balance

I've read the thread in NEJ's forum. And I can firmly say that he does make a very solid point regarding balance.

It's probably more a matter of what every one of us understands as 'balance'. As far as I can tell from what I've seen, for you, Sikret, that's 'how hard a fight should be'. That is legitime definition when we talk about exclusively tactical element of game. But roleplaying game doesn't consist of fights only (otherwise we have Diablo), it should be a self sufficient world with it's own logic (not necessarily explained to a player at the game start). And there is already a world predefined in BG - Forgotten Realms. Breaking it's logic too much often breaks immersion, breaking immersion breaks expectations.

BTW I've happened to read DnD's guideline for highlevel campaigns - one of the most interesting points was not to introduce tougher opponents, who'll strip the feeling of PCs being actually strong, and alongside will yield more XP, escalating the process even further. Instead it suggested to make enemies smarter, like preparing battleground to their advantage and such.

Combat is just a one single piece of game design, and shouldn't dominate the other elements. As long as the goal is to make an RPG.

[Sikret]

BTW I've happened to read DnD's guideline for highlevel campaigns - one of the most interesting points was not to introduce tougher opponents, who'll strip the feeling of PCs being actually strong, and alongside will yield more XP, escalating the process even further. Instead it suggested to make enemies smarter, like preparing battleground to their advantage and such.

I do both. Tough (as long as it stands legitimate within the mod's rules) and smart (as much as the game's engine permits).

Combat is just a one single piece of game design, and shouldn't dominate the other elements. As long as the goal is to make an RPG.

He was talking about the difficulty of combats in TS.

For most people, adding a word or two about the 'rules' is just a means to hide their tactical incompetence. As I've said elsewhere, all D&D rules are just optional guidelines for the DM. There is a (meta) rule which says that the DM can always modify those rules if he sees that the change fits his goals and expectations.

[Ardanis]

I do both. Tough (as long as it stands legitimate within the mod's rules) and smart (as much as the game's engine permits).

Yes, I remember from v4

adding a word or two about the 'rules' is just a means to hide their tactical incompetence.

Now, I can't speak for Bereth, as in my opinion that's a rude thing to do but was there a phrase "I'm can easily beat every 99% resistant golem with my single finger"? You often seem to put much emphasis on 'tactical competence'. Good, but don't you think that's not everyone's goal? I could be missing something but afaik TS != IA, one is a quest while another is mostly AI and tactics (yes, I know about new content). So, I think it's not correct to put a blame on someone's combat skills when they intend to play a quest.

There is a (meta) rule which says that the DM can always modify those rules if he sees that the change fits his goals and expectations.

It's normal once, twice or thrice. But when it happens at least 50% of times then an explanation about the reasons is due. Otherwise, like I've said, it breaks immersion. You give a warning in IA's readme about mod's difficulty, so you're clear in this regard. In case of TS it apparently came as surprise.

[Ardanis]

There's a significant difference between creating something of one's own and expanding an existing creation (be it a game of a house building). Former has no other limits but creator's ability (and resources), latter applies certain restrictions - as one can't really put blasters and space battleships into fantasy setting. Well, technically they can, but does it need to be said what a result would be? Likely not.
Same with proverbal balance. For a mod (which is an expansion) to not stand out much and blend with the rest of content it has to be made in the same manner as the game is. And BG itself isn't even something original, it's DnD's expansion of sorts. Putting emphasis on mod's needs rather than the original game's can indeed have a reason - "I like it this way, so either accept it or ignore". Thing is, that's not professional to do (and yes, if I'm to be blunt and honest then I do think that the vast amount of mods, especially old ones, are done in a very amateurish manner).

That being said, I myself have absolutely nothing against TS or Vlad, just am trying to clarify the situation.

[Sikret]

As I said, the problem is that some people have a too strict reading of those "so called" rules of D&D. There is a (meta) rule which says that all those rules are optional and it's the DM who defines the world's setup. I think we are falling in repetitions.

Moreover, TS is not that difficult to require a warning in the readme. Only a player who doesn't know even the most basic tactics may say that TS is too hard. It doesn't require outstanding tactical skills at all.

[Vlad]

Guys, it's not necessary to argue with such intonations. We all have different points of view. I suggest if you have some personal insults, do this through IM, thanks we have it here. As regards, myself, well, I accept the critics with respect to ballance. Bereth, your objection is clearly justified. I agree also with Secret that TS is one of the easiest mods here. Do you remember the "ballance" in Severed Hand, then you sure feel the difference! As I said many many times, I do the mods for my own enjoyment. If I feel something is too easy for me, I do it harder. Since most of my NPCs first take over NeJ2, and only then come to BG2, I feel the serious lack of ballance in my game. That makes me introducing such modifications like Copper Coronet, and probably more in the future. My game is now based on both NeJ2 and TS, so for the group of Hrothgar, Dar and Shar-Teel, the whole Island is a piece of cake. My next play will include IA for sure. All in all, I want to say that "ballance" does not have an absolute meaning. Bereth, in your very core game, TS monsters are difficult for you. In my very core game they are not. In Sikret's IA, it will be different. So, this is very individual, and I don't see any base for discussion here. We all simply have different games of different difficulty levels, different NPCs, different rules etc. My mods are aimed at certain players who are tired of core BG2 game and want something different. Sikret has his own community with the most tactical and challenging experience. Eventually, as Senka suggested, you may try lowering your "core rules level" in the game configuration settings. Then all the monsters will make half of damage and you'll be twice stronger.

Good luck!

[EDIT] Bereth, as I said before, I accept any help. If you have some additional material you wish to share, I'll be glad to review it. Thank you.

This post has been edited by Vlad: Mar 27 2009, 07:26 PM

[Bereth Darkides]

Well, got to Katchiko, and now she won't resurrect. Yoshimo says cast the scroll but I wasn't given one... What is next, do I simply stare at the corpse?