My progress, spoilers Options

[Arkain]

As I found the Defender of Easthaven in WK level 5 it is randomised, actually.

The Vampiric-"golemkiller"-Touch isn't as great as some people tend to think. While it's a nice spell against golems, it will only do like 6 damage or something like that. Thinking about how some golems have like 200 or even more HP you will need quite some castings of VT if you intend to kill them with it . If you have the time lowering their magic resistance and firing some Skulltrap spells would be more efficient, imho (6-36 vs. 20-60 damage).

[Sikret]

The Vampiric-"golemkiller"-Touch isn't as great as some people tend to think. While it's a nice spell against golems, it will only do like 6 damage or something like that. Thinking about how some golems have like 200 or even more HP you will need quite some castings of VT if you intend to kill them with it . If you have the time lowering their magic resistance and firing some Skulltrap spells would be more efficient, imho (6-36 vs. 20-60 damage).

Skull Trap and Vampiric Touch inflict the same type of damage, which means that if a golem has some resistance to that damage type it will be applied to both spells. In other words, if VT's 6d6 has been reduced to 6 for a particular golem-type, Skull-Trap's damage will also be divided similarly and won't do significantly more damage. The difference is that for skull-trap to work you need to lower the golems' MR first which is both time consuming and requires too many Lower MR spells when you meet a team of golems. (Also note that Skull-Trap is tweaked not to inflict more than 10d6 damage in v4.3).

[Sikret]

Anyway,thought a little on the vampiric touch compared to a high level
improved hasted tank and equiped.Tank can reach7 to 10 APR doing more to
tough golems compared to a sorcerer with improved alacracy unloading all
his vampiric touch in one round.Maybe at lower levels.

At least, your sorcerer/mage is not a mere buffer/debuffer sitting back unable to perform any offensive action (as some people used to keep constantly telling us and complaining and making accusations that this mod has changed the game to a mere hack&slash thing and has made mages useless or has turned them to mere debuffers). This was the gist of my tip about Vampiric Touch and it was just one example of how new offensive tactics can be found. I didn't say that your mage will be a substitute for your warrior.

[Shaitan]

10d6 damage in v4.3)

Doh! one of my fav spells gets nerfed

[Sikret]

The Vampiric-"golemkiller"-Touch isn't as great as some people tend to think. While it's a nice spell against golems, it will only do like 6 damage or something like that. Thinking about how some golems have like 200 or even more HP you will need quite some castings of VT if you intend to kill them with it . If you have the time lowering their magic resistance and firing some Skulltrap spells would be more efficient, imho (6-36 vs. 20-60 damage).

Skull Trap and Vampiric Touch inflict the same type of damage, which means that if a golem has some resistance to that damage type it will be applied to both spells. In other words, if VT's 6d6 has been reduced to 6 for a particular golem-type, Skull-Trap's damage will also be divided similarly and won't do significantly more damage. The difference is that for skull-trap to work you need to lower the golems' MR first which is both time consuming and requires too many Lower MR spells when you meet a team of golems. (Also note that Skull-Trap is tweaked not to inflict more than 10d6 damage in v4.3).

Plus:

1- Skull Trap inflicts half damage if the target makes its saving throw.

2- Elemental Golems are immune to Lower MR.

So, in general I believe that VT is Way more effective than Skull Trap against golems while playing IA.

[Arkain]

Skull Trap and Vampiric Touch inflict the same type of damage, which means that if a golem has some resistance to that damage type it will be applied to both spells. In other words, if VT's 6d6 has been reduced to 6 for a particular golem-type, Skull-Trap's damage will also be divided similarly and won't do significantly more damage. The difference is that for skull-trap to work you need to lower the golems' MR first which is both time consuming and requires too many Lower MR spells when you meet a team of golems. (Also note that Skull-Trap is tweaked not to inflict more than 10d6 damage in v4.3).

I know. But if the golem has like 75% resistance to magic damage and you intend to kill him only with one of those spells VT would deal 1.5-9 damage, while Skull Trap would deal 5-30. If the golem has 150 HP you wold need (assuming max damage everytime) 16 castings of VT or five castings of ST. Add in two additional castings: Spell Trigger with three Lower Resistance + a normal Lower Resistance (or four castings of Lower Resistance if you like - still only nine castings all together). A golem immune to spells which lower magic resistance is a different case all together, of course.
Actually I don't like this nerf. With 10D6 Skull Trap is as good as Fireball - only with a smaller radius, the proximity effect and a different damage type (which is often resisted via a spell or natural resistance anyway).

This post has been edited by Arkain: Jul 20 2007, 12:43 PM

[Sikret]

I know. But if the golem has like 75% resistance to magic damage and you intend to kill him only with one of those spells VT would deal 1.5-9 damage, while Skull Trap would deal 5-30.

No, most of the times the golem will make its saving throw and will take half damage from the skull trap. 5-30 assumes that the golem will fail all of its saving throws which is very unlikely. So, even if we don't consider the nerfed Skull Trap in v4.3, the damage would be 2.5-15.

Moreover, as I said, only golems lesser than the "Elemental" ones can be affected by Lower MR. Wasting 4 Lower MR spell on a Gem/Coin golem just to make it vulnerable to Skull Trap doesn't look to be a brilliant tactic. Plus, Skull Trap can also hurt your own summons and party members who are engaged in hand to hand battle with the golem. A mage casting VT, on the other hand, can safely help the party against golems without requiring to waste his Lower MR spells on the golem and without the risk of damaging summons and party members. Note that the mage is not supposed to kill the golem singly (and only with VT). He is just helping the party and proves that he is more than a buffer/debuffer. (Of course, if we consider the game's standard golems, the damage VT applies is more considerable and a solo mage can even kill the golem without difficulty. Moreover, with the Golem Slayer rod and with the new anti-golem spells in v4.3, a solo mage has very good chances to kill even the more powerful types of golems.)

With 10D6 Skull Trap is as good as Fireball

Yes, both are 3rd level spells.

[Stu]

Just a bit of anecdotal evidence to the case: In my initial attempts at taking the Amber Golems in the Chromatic Demon fight they lasted way longer than any of the other summons (ie Salamander Princes). In my final attempt I used plenty of Vampric Touches and they fell much easier (probably about 1/2 the time it took me to remove a Salamander prince). Also, Scull Trap doesn't really allow you to hack on the golem with your warriors at the same time (unless they have some major spell protections before hand) and it's also quite difficult to keep them in one place for two long without placing someone in the path of the spell.

only golems lesser than the "Elemental" ones can be affected by Lower MR

I was just wondering, what is the difficulty order of Golems? I'm assuming something like Coin<Gem<Amber<Elemental<Supreme<Ultimate (or something to that effect).

[Raven]

Basically your order is right except Supreme Golems are more powerful than Ultra Golems (there is no 'Ultimate Golem' - I guess you meant Ultra).

Whether coin/gem golems are easier just depends on what type of weapon you have.

There are also Brain Golems which are improved by IA. They fall probably below Amber and above Coin/Gem.

[Sikret]

I was just wondering, what is the difficulty order of Golems? I'm assuming something like Coin<Gem<Amber<Elemental<Supreme<Ultimate (or something to that effect).

Just change the place of Supreme and Ultra in your list and you have a rough approximation of their powers correctly. Coin, Gem and Amber ones have different resistances against different weapon types; so, depending on the weapon you have in your hands, you may find one of them tougher than the other two under certain conditions; though in general the order you mentioned is correct specially if we don't consider their resistances to weapon types and consider their HP, Level, THAC0 and special attacks.

Mithril Golem stands just below the Elemental ones, but there is only one Mithril Golem in the game.

EDIT: Thanks, Raven! we were posting at the same time (and you are a touch-typist! )

This post has been edited by Sikret: Jul 20 2007, 02:24 PM

[Shadan]

QUOTE
With 10D6 Skull Trap is as good as Fireball


Yes, both are 3rd level spells.

First hand I agree. Skull Trap shouldn't be more powerful than a Fireball. But Sikret, pls keep in mind, that ST has a some drawbacks. Much easier to cast protect your party agains Fireball, ST has a smaller radius, trigger method, which makes it harder to use properly in the fight. On the other hand, enemies can defend against FB more easily, and ST can be used before fight as a trap. So with 10D6 limit, Fireball is slightly better imho, I would vote to leave 12D6 as max.

Also I think you could make some nerf on Sunfire also in v4.3. It is a regular tactic at me to buff my party with Prot from Fire, and Nalia cast Sunfires as fast as she can. Even Haer and my PC can hurl in 1-1 Sunfire. No need any Lower Resistance. etc. Sunfire has a same drawback as Cone of Cold: harder to cast properly with a mage, who likes to sit back. Fireball is more easier.

[Arkain]

I know. But if the golem has like 75% resistance to magic damage and you intend to kill him only with one of those spells VT would deal 1.5-9 damage, while Skull Trap would deal 5-30.

No, most of the times the golem will make its saving throw and will take half damage from the skull trap. 5-30 assumes that the golem will fail all of its saving throws which is very unlikely. So, even if we don't consider the nerfed Skull Trap in v4.3, the damage would be 2.5-15.

Moreover, as I said, only golems lesser than the "Elemental" ones can be affected by Lower MR. Wasting 4 Lower MR spell on a Gem/Coin golem just to make it vulnerable to Skull Trap doesn't look to be a brilliant tactic. [...]

... yes. I wasn't talking about brilliant tactics but more about what would do more damage with less castings total involved if only one of those spells is used to damage and kill a golem. That's why I assumed max damage everytime. ST deals more damage (which is still higher in 4.2 if the enemies make their saving throw). The 10D6 ST in comparison to VT is kinda weak, of course - especially because of the saving throw for half damage involved.

This post has been edited by Arkain: Jul 24 2007, 04:50 PM

[Roy]

Did the mystery of the third color quest and it was a nice quest.
Spoiler
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Found the efreet bottle and ran into the noble efreet on the upper level
of Deirex tower.
*
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End spoiler

Now only to find the defender of easthaven.Can't wait to get to Cromwell already.

[Roy]

Forged Dragon Lord halberd,ring of greater djinn summoning,improved horn of valhala at Cromwell.
Also finished Bodhi and got into chapter 7 and met Rammilat and the Dragon in the forest clearing that was
much easier the the one at WK.

I really like Dragon Lord halberd.Unfortunately lots of the tough enemies are immune to fire.
I always forget to use the summons,I usually buff everyone and attack while breaching
and dispeling their defences.Are the greater djinn and noble spider usful in those stages and TOB?

Still no defender of east haven.And I looked nearly in all the SOA including WK.

[Raven]

I found the Greater Djinni pretty useful because he lasts quite a long time due to his many stoneskins/mirror image spells. One thing to be aware of though is that he has a haste spell which he'll use - kinda annoying as it overrides I.Haste on your party members (so actually makes them worse if they had I. Haste on them). So I made sure to have him cast the spell before combat started, well away from my character(s) with I.Haste.

[Roy]

Finished SOA part and haven't found defender of easthaven.It was a lovely fight at the end with the improved
minions.Valygar and Keldorn are levels 38,Kelsy level 32 and that's I guess high but that came from doing lots
and lots of quests and also added ones from mods.

The Illesera fight was interesting.I have no idea how she was hidden from true sight.She used critical hit and backstab.
Maybe she used non detection or something.I just have no idea how.The party around had the standart mage,Cleric
with insect plague and fighter and the normal stuff.

I had no idea how to get her in melee and she was going to backstab everyone to death that wasn't buffed with PfMW,
stoneskins and the like so I resorted to area effect spells.Other than that and running around until something on
her wears off or she runs out of potions is there another way to get her?

[Roy]

Just fought Gromnir and friends with his ancestor ghost and he didn't want to die.He had a golem like physical
resistence.JD is a cool sword with all the constant defensive buffs.
Maybe I shouldn't write this.I wrote about hiding the protagonist from Layenne line of sight and it got nerfed.

I'm still thinking how to use spells so Kelsey will do someting in battles.
One method is to buff him with PfMW and get him to absorb attacks I'm still working on others.
Maybe that and vampiric touch but it's still not that effective,

Regarding the mages,it takes about 7 RRoR to take down their SI:Abjuration,I have no idea how it's just
spell shield,SI and maybe spell turning.

[Raven]

Regarding the mages,it takes about 7 RRoR to take down their SI:Abjuration,I have no idea how it's just
spell shield,SI and maybe spell turning.

Roy, did you fire several RRoR at the mages at the same time (or almost the same time)? Spell Shield takes a second or two to be dispelled after being hit by a RR, in which time any other RR are wasted (as the shield is still up). As far as I know there is nothing that can be done about this.

The Spellshield spell is also bugged meaning sometimes it is never removed no matter how many spell-protection removing spells are cast into it. Although if you did eventually get rid of SI:A then this is probably not what was happening.

Be careful about putting 3x RR into Chain Contingency. Because of the reason I explained, above only one RR will be effective (the other two are effectively wasted). 3x RR in a CC is fine if your enemy is not using Spellshield.

[Sikret]

Maybe I shouldn't write this.I wrote about hiding the protagonist from Layenne line of sight and it got nerfed.

No, Roy! This was reported to me several times long ago before your post about hiding your protagonist.

[Roy]

Haven't played for a while because I was busy doing other things.So I did the final SOA battle again and Illesera.
Another reason was using the new special ability for the planar sphere mod that made my protagonist
permanetly fatigued.

I thought about the Illasera battle again and I still can't figure out how she remained invisible without me detecting
her and than returning without cheese.When someone drinks a potion it says invisible in the text box.

She is I guess a fighter/thief and had scrolls so had use any item and used a scrolls before the battle.