Unfixed bugs of vanilla game, Send them here if you find any Options

[Raven]

Did you experience or test the problem in practice as well?

Yes, as mentioned I fought a Shadow Fiend using the item 'Hammer of Thor' which inflicts 6 points of electrical damage with each hit. The Shadow Fiends took 13 from each hit.

[Baronius]

I see, thanks for the reply. I was looking for your earlier post, but didn't find it.

[EDIT] Sorry, I had overlooked it in your previous post. Now I see it.

This post has been edited by Baronius: Jun 2 2007, 04:34 PM

[Sikret]

Baronius is right. Their resistance to electricity is actually -128% (not 128%) which is not a valid number, of course. Will do something about it. Thanks for the report, Raven!

EDIT: Just checked and Devil Shades have the same issue as well.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Jun 5 2007, 04:35 PM

[Mongerman]

Planetar spam with project image still works as well. Not even the demon prince can take on 20 planetars at once.

[thetruth]

Planetar spam with project image still works as well. Not even the demon prince can take on 20 planetars at once.

Yes unfortunately it is one of the few "bugs" that cannot be fixed.
But at that point someone could also use CTRL-Y - it's also faster

[Sikret]

Now, only sorcerers can cast "Project Image" and "Simulacrum". Other mages cannot learn the spells because all scrolls of those two spells are removed from the game (unless you cheat and give the spell to your mage by SK). The spells are also erased from the spell book of Jan and Nalia. This was all I could think to do for now, but as thetruth indirectly said, it's the player (himself) who should be his own policeman to avoid cheesy methods.

[Clown]

Don't think this is a bug as such but realised on my last run through it can be horridly exploited, tensers transformation still allows casting of spells from scrolls and with the far larger numbers of useful spell scrolls in IA its easier to exploit.

[Sikret]

Don't think this is a bug as such but realised on my last run through it can be horridly exploited, tensers transformation still allows casting of spells from scrolls and with the far larger numbers of useful spell scrolls in IA its easier to exploit.

thetruth had reported this to me a good while ago and I fixed it at that time. Just can't remember if it was before v4.2 or not, but I'm sure it is fixed in v4.3.

[thetruth]

No Clown says that a Mage under TT can still cast spells from scrolls (not a second and cumulative TT which is fixed now).

But in this case I don't think of it as bug, since scrolls are considered items and they can use them like thieves with UAI can.

Now, only sorcerers can cast "Project Image" and "Simulacrum". Other mages cannot learn the spells because all scrolls of those two spells are removed from the game (unless you cheat and give the spell to your mage by SK). The spells are also erased from the spell book of Jan and Nalia. This was all I could think to do for now, but as thetruth indirectly said, it's the player (himself) who should be his own policeman to avoid cheesy methods.

I am not sure if this is a good idea.
For sure it is a solution, but still I would prefer a different one, even if I am not sure know if there is.
Besides it makes Sorcerers even more powerful than the other Mages.

[Sikret]

No Clown says that a Mage under TT can still cast spells from scrolls (not a second and cumulative TT which is fixed now).

Ah, yes. I had misread Clown's post. Thanks.

But in this case I don't think of it as bug, since scrolls are considered items and they can use them like thieves with UAI can.

I agree.

Now, only sorcerers can cast "Project Image" and "Simulacrum". Other mages cannot learn the spells because all scrolls of those two spells are removed from the game (unless you cheat and give the spell to your mage by SK). The spells are also erased from the spell book of Jan and Nalia. This was all I could think to do for now, but as thetruth indirectly said, it's the player (himself) who should be his own policeman to avoid cheesy methods.

I am not sure if this is a good idea.
For sure it is a solution, but still I would prefer a different one, even if I am not sure know if there is.

I'm open to suggestions.

Besides it makes Sorcerers even more powerful than the other Mages.

But sorcerers are not that much powerful in IA. They are now far beneath the authority they had in the vanilla game. Don't you agree?

As a side note, sorcerers now have less chance to forge the Robe of the Apprenti than pure mages, which means that a pure mage has more chance to forge "Memory of the Apprenti" (= a great item). And the robe is not even cheatable.

[Clown]

Now, only sorcerers can cast "Project Image" and "Simulacrum". Other mages cannot learn the spells because all scrolls of those two spells are removed from the game (unless you cheat and give the spell to your mage by SK). The spells are also erased from the spell book of Jan and Nalia. This was all I could think to do for now, but as thetruth indirectly said, it's the player (himself) who should be his own policeman to avoid cheesy methods.

I am not sure if this is a good idea.
For sure it is a solution, but still I would prefer a different one, even if I am not sure know if there is.

I personally would see this as an unnecesary restiriction, the spells are good characterful spells which I like. Sure they can be abused but this is a case where it would be probably be best to allow people to police themselves rather than removing the spells from the game.

This post has been edited by Clown: Jun 7 2007, 03:37 PM

[coaster]

I presume the main problem is the player spamming huge numbers of planetars. In which case could Project Image/Simulcrum be nerfed somehow so that;

a/ the images/simulcrums cannot cast summoning spells

or;

b/ the images/simulcrums cannot cast level 9 spells.

Perhaps one way of doing b/ would be to "cap" project image at a certain caster level?

I agree with Clown though - I'd prefer to keep them in for all mage/sorc classes if at all possible.

[Arkain]

I agree with thetruth, coaster and Clown: it's not quite the best solution. You should allow players to decide on their own whether they use this or not. If not, then is it possible to make the summoning limit work for PI/Simulacrum as well? If so, one couldn't have 10 Mordys, Planetars or whatever. Or is it not possible due to the engine?

[thetruth]

Yes the problem is not only the Planetars. PI and Simulacrum ignore generally the summon limit of 5. I guess it happens because the clones are not party members.
Though I am not sure if there is a solution to this.

Also PI can be abused more than the Simulacrum since the second is a "level-drained" image of the caster and cannot cast 9 level spells (don't know what happens without the XP CAP though).

And of course both can use items/scrolls from the quick-slot. I don't know if it would be possible to make them unable to use the quick-slots like it happens with the Mislead clones.
Or if it is doable to make impossible for a Mage to put PIs in a C.Contigency.

IMO it is the PI the most cheesy spell since you can make it also to attack physically if you shapechange it.
So if you decide to remove something for me it should be only the PI.

If we were talking about the original game I wouldn't have any problems at all if you removed both spells from the game, since pure Arcane spell-casters were already too powerful. But in IA these spells cannot be abused so much like before and arcane spell-casters would become even "weaker" without these spells.

But sorcerers are not that much powerful in IA. They are now far beneath the authority they had in the vanilla game. Don't you agree?

Yes but this is true for the other spell-casters as well. Sorcerers would be even more powerful compared to the other Mages if you remove these spells.

And since Sorcerers can use these spells the problem remains for those who want to cheat (mod-NPCs or multi-player created Sorcerers).

In conclusion Sikret, I believe that if none of the above solutions is possible maybe you should leave the spells (at least the Simulacrum) in the game. Besides the player who wants to cheat will do it anyway.


This post has been edited by thetruth: Jun 7 2007, 08:38 PM

[leonidas]

Disabling the ability to stick project image in a chain contingency and disabling projected images' ability to cast level 9 spells would be the best solution, if it's possible.

As for removing them from the game? I think it's a mistake. There is a limited amount of spells that mages can cast in the late game of IA and actually be useful. Reducing that amount of spells by 2 serves to make the game less interesting.

If it cannot be fixed, so be it. Players will have to resist the temptation to cheat in this one instance.

[rbeverjr]

Concerning spamming planetars: I defeated the demon prince without spamming summons (pardon my elation). With that success, I have no intention of spamming summons. And from the comments of others, I can tell that this tactic is unnecessary to win. My opinion remains that this game is personal; so, let a person do what pleases him (even planetar spamming) - it won't affect my game at all.

On the other hand, if you are able to take away summon spamming -without taking away the spells- that won't affect my game either. So, I don't mind.

[Sikret]

Even worse, when a projected image uses a scroll, the scroll is not consumed and does not disappear the original caster's inventory (the illusionary copy of the scroll disappears from the clone's inventory but the main scroll remains).

[Sikret]

What if I leave "Simulacrum" as it is, but replace "Project Image" with an entirely new custom spell? (the drawback of this solution is that if any other creature--perhaps from some other mod-- is coded to cast project image, he will cast that new spell on himself instead. This is the main reason I didn't go for this solution in the first place.)

This post has been edited by Sikret: Jun 8 2007, 01:11 PM

[Demivrgvs]

Is it possible to make quick item slots unusable for PI and Simulacrums?

[leonidas]

What if I leave "Simulacrum" as it is, but replace "Project Image" with an entirely new custom spell? (the drawback of this solution is that if any other creature--perhaps from some other mod-- is coded to cast project image, he will cast that new spell on himself instead. This is the main reason I didn't go for this solution in the first place.)

I don't see the problem; in the vanilla game, IA, and all the other mods I've played, I've never seen a hostile creature that was actually scripted to cast project image.

Also, as IA becomes even more extensive, it will preclude the use of other mods anyway.

This post has been edited by leonidas: Jun 8 2007, 05:23 PM