Is romance really necessary? Options

[Bookwyrme]

Hope springs eternal.

The words were "try to eliminate all possible bugs" not "eliminate them completely."

I agree, btw, that glory & length of days is still possible within the modding community.

[Sir-Kill]

domi's quote was
too late to seek glory in BG2 NPC modding
since bg2 is awfully full of all of them. taking in concideration all of them from bg, releasd mods, and ones under delvolpment.

maybe that is what she likes about wtp /plug

[kulyok]

I think that it is never too late, if

- quality-wise, NPC has at least a semblance of personality - and most existing characters do, even one-day characters;
- quantity-wise, Bioware's level at the very least, with or without a romance;
- non-linear writing, i.e. at the very least "Yes/No/I do not have time for this" instead of one PC reply/five NPC-is-talking blocks in the row;
- the mod has been throughly proofread;
- the mod has been throughly tested;
- first line-voicing and full soundset voicing as a minimum.

Such a NPC mod will be welcome, I think.

[kulyok]

Note that I was talking about newly created characters, only. With Bioware characters/add-ons to these characters, it is more tricky. Voicing Sola mod now, for example, is probably not a good idea.

[balduran]

domi's quote was
too late to seek glory in BG2 NPC modding
since bg2 is awfully full of all of them. taking in concideration all of them from bg, releasd mods, and ones under delvolpment.

maybe that is what she likes about wtp /plug

I don't think that being in the modding business just for the fame is a good thing. You have to love what you are doing and you need to poses this rare quality called selflessnes - doing things that you do not expect to be payed for; and you should sometimes ignore the fact that your creation might not receive the recognition you think it deserves. "The Blaze of Glory" aproach might seriously damage a good modding idea, at least I think so. You try to do everything better, and better, and better... until it's all a little too much, and the original idea that previously looked so good, becomes something extorted. I could give a few examples, but someone might feel ofended, so I am shutting up.

[Domi]

And that is exactly why there is no reason to release half-finished mods. When it is a labor of love you don't care who if any plays it apart from you.

This post has been edited by Domi: Dec 1 2005, 07:42 PM

[irenicus_]

And that is exactly why there is no reason to release half-finished mods. When it is a labor of love you don't care who if any plays it apart from you.

errrr confused here

[Domi]

The only reason to release the mod without finishing it properly is so that other people got it earlier than when it's done. If you do the mod for yourself, you don't worry when other people will start playing it (or play it at all for that matter). You have it on your drive and tinker with it to your heart's content and release it when you are sure that you don't want to add anything else.

[balduran]

Domi's words as always have merit and wisdom.

[kulyok]

I don't know... when I see: "I don't care how many people will play it, I made it for myself" (and I've seen it on the forums several times, at CoM and RPGDungeon for sure), I feel a cold shiver, somehow. I want to feel loved, cared about, feel that mod creators thought of little old me when they designed it... at least, a little bit.

[Sir-Kill]

well there is always that too.

[Baronius]

The golden mean is to find the balance. I like the mods I am developing, and I don't include things that I don't like, but I also don't include things which I know about that most players will not like them. The feedback and needs of players are very important. Long ago I made a few mods (tweak, item, spell pack) by player requests which I've never played, but those were rather just small mods of a starter modder basically.

[balduran]

I don't know... when I see: "I don't care how many people will play it, I made it for myself" (and I've seen it on the forums several times, at CoM and RPGDungeon for sure), I feel a cold shiver, somehow. I want to feel loved, cared about, feel that mod creators thought of little old me when they designed it... at least, a little bit.

Kulyok, I'll remember to be be thinking of good old you when I work on that one

[balduran]

I like the mods I am developing, and I don't include things that I don't like, but I also don't include things which I know about that most players will not like them.

This time I have to disagree with Baronius. Even if there's only one player that wants a certain component of a mod, and the others totally hate it, I'll consider releasing it for the sake of that single BG fan who likes it (Of course, you can exclude the improved bardsong from the list, since apparently nobody likes it, not even me).

[kulyok]

Kulyok, I'll remember to be be thinking of good old you when I work on that one 

This time I have to disagree with Baronius. Even if there's only one player that wants a certain component of a mod, and the others totally hate it, I'll consider releasing it for the sake of that single BG fan who likes it (Of course, you can exclude the improved bardsong from the list, since apparently nobody likes it, not even me).

Depends on your tastes, too. I mean, if you and your one fan wants only hugs and kisses in your romance, but a thousand of fans would like explicit sex scenes, (or the other way around), you'd probably not listen to them.

This post has been edited by kulyok: Dec 9 2005, 02:52 PM

[irenicus_]

men.... cant live with em, cant live without em, but if i had a choice, the shed is over there, stay out meh house

[balduran]

Depends on your tastes, too. I mean, if you and your one fan wants only hugs and kisses in your romance, but a thousand of fans would like explicit sex scenes, (or the other way around), you'd probably not listen to them.

Actually, when I started working on Azure NPC, I thought I'd probably add an aditional component, which adds a 18-rated flirting system, but now I'm not sure that the idea is very apropriate, baring in mind the age of some of our fans (Irenicus, in that number too ).

[Baronius]

I like the mods I am developing, and I don't include things that I don't like, but I also don't include things which I know about that most players will not like them.

This time I have to disagree with Baronius. Even if there's only one player that wants a certain component of a mod, and the others totally hate it, I'll consider releasing it for the sake of that single BG fan who likes it (Of course, you can exclude the improved bardsong from the list, since apparently nobody likes it, not even me).

Yeah, it seems we disagree here. I also complete any request of individual players as well (e.g. once someone wanted a Club +1 specifically, and I added it), if it is not something that most of the players would not welcome at all / would hate. The possibility of letting the player decide which parts to install is not something I prefer, I like to release my mods as a whole. Naturally all mods (including my works) have parts that are liked by a player while not preferred by another, so when required, I support the concept about letting the players to choose. But in my primary modding area, in story & quest creation, I don't think there can be such parts that cannot be ignored by those who don't like them (i.e. that they cannot just say: "I don't like this but it's just a few minutes anyway").

[balduran]

I think it depends on the nature of the mod, Baronuis. When it comes to mods, which add new areas, quests and NPCs to the game, I agree that "at once" istallation is a better choice, since they more or less represent the modder who has made them. On the other hand, rule tweaks, item stores and kits should be left to the player's choice for many reasons - some like overpowered classes and items, some not; some like Weapons For All styled rule tweaks some don't, etc. We shouldn't also forget that many mods aren't compatible with each other, and that the number of kits is limited, which is an issue too.