Bill Bisco - My Testing, Testing for experienced players Options

[Bill Bisco]

Alright,

I reinstalled. Again, I have only Baldurdash and NeJ3v70 installed.

I think the problem may have been that that Baldur.ini of my instance had wrong references. At any rate, regardless of the reason, it seems to work fine now.



I started a new Multiplayer game. This time I imported some sample NPCs to start:



Since Shar-Teel actually starts in a Multiplayer cage, she starts shunted out of her cage. She's still not considered free, as you have to find the appropriate key and free her in order for her to join your party.



Interestingly, There's a second Imoen where the Cutscene Imoen began. If you pause the game and try to talk to her, she won't disappear and you can get two Imoens.



I'm going to keep them both. One will remain a thief while the other one will become a mage. I get the best of both worlds! As a note, if you edit the cage nearest Jaheira to make it walkable and put a door there, that might serve as a good place to put Shar-Teel as the Multiplayer NPCs won't spawn there.,

In the below text dialogue, Imoen references Irenicus. I'm not sure she actually knows his name yet. I could be wrong though.

[Bill Bisco]

So in Easthaven, I failed to pickpocket a man in his house. Instantaneously, the woman outside of the house knew evertyhing and turned red as well. In fact, the entire town outside and inside of every building turned red to me.

I was tired after killing goblins and decided to rest. No issue. In fact, there's no need for inns. You can rest outside as much as you want without issue.

Now mind you not that killing any of these townsfolk affects your reputation. In fact, my own loss of reputation was after refusing to give the boy back his fish.

I entered this inn and Hrothgar gives me this speech about how anyone harming people in this town will answer to him. Apparently he's the only one that knows that I'm a failed pickpocket and reluctant murderer (my summoned skeleton auto attacked the red woman and slew her, oops!)



Suggestion: Implement a reputation penalty for killing townsfolk
Suggestion: Make it so that a failure to pickpocket an individual will red them but not the entire town. of Easthaven.
Suggestion: Implement random guards discouraging you from resting outside like other towns in the Baldur's Gate series.

[Bill Bisco]

Pomhab is dead! Silly Hrothgar.



Hrothgar continually spouts out these lines. Quite annoying.

[Bill Bisco]

I talked to Accalia as soon as I entered the Temple of Tempus. We had a very nice conversation. Unfortunately immediately after, like all the townsfolk in Easthaven, she turned red on me. She died unfortunately.

The Priest of Tempus in the back didn't do anything. Didn't lift a Hammer or Cast a spell. So much for the Lord of Battles!

[Bill Bisco]

Apparently Dar is being attacked by Winter Wolves. I have Jaheira and Minsc with me, two animal lovers with the ability to Charm Animals. I actually do not want to kill these winter wolves. I'd rather make them my friends. Apparently though, they're obsessed with Attacking Dar and Dar will not calm down until these tamed animals are dead. He will not talk to me otherwise!



Even though they're out of his sight, he knows that they're still there

Dar: I hate wolves!



This post has been edited by Bill Bisco: May 22 2015, 05:53 AM

[Senka]

Tell me why do you need this mod if you start to ruin it from the very beginning?

[Bill Bisco]

Tell me why do you need this mod if you start to ruin it from the very beginning?

All I did was fail a pickpocket and then instantly the whole town redlined me! I mean I had 100 pickpocket and still failed against this drunken dude that wanted some wine (which I gave him, which was also stolen). I'm a thief! I'm supposed to steal!

Even after clearing out this Orc Cavern and resting over a day, Dar still doesn't want to talk to me. (I think he still thinks there's wolves nearby). Which there are and they haven't disappeared. I still don't want to kill them.



Suggestion: Have Dar talk to you if there aren't hostiles within range.

This post has been edited by Bill Bisco: May 22 2015, 06:49 AM

[Bill Bisco]

Pomhab is dead. And Hrothgar still constantly repeats himself. At this point the protagonist is stuck and cannot continue.

Suggestion: Don't force the PC to talk to Pomhab to continue the quest.

[Senka]

I mean I had 100 pickpocket and still failed

Because you need 200 for success

I'm a thief! I'm supposed to steal!

This is major delusion.

I still don't want to kill them.

Please remove this beautiful mod from your computer and do not bother us with your experiments. Never!

[Bill Bisco]

Since I think the main quest is borked. I went back and reluctantly killed the two winter wolves and Dar suddenly got talkative. I went to kick out one of my Imoens when she gave me this conversation:



This is the Irenicus Dungeon Kickout message. Not sure if this is intentional, but sneak out of here doesn't seem to fit. Perhaps a different message? "Leave me alone in the cold winter?"

[Vlad]

[EDIT] Bill, this is for you. I've almost dropped from my chair laughing.

This post has been edited by Vlad: May 22 2015, 07:02 AM

[Vlad]

Jan is back, so hopefully she will adjust dialogue options for crazy goblin mode of playing NeJ3.

Seriously, if you wipe off the whole town with blood how can you get quests and continue further? In fact, in this situation, what should be done is just to make Hrothgar hostile, which would instantly ends your game.

This post has been edited by Vlad: May 22 2015, 07:14 AM

[Senka]

so hopefully she will adjust dialogue options for crazy goblin mode of playing NeJ3.

And in gibberish I think...

[Vlad]

And in gibberish I think...

I feel that the multiplayer button should be indeed replaced with ToB as we discussed. Alternatively, Movies button can be replaced.

[Vlad]

Bill, if again seriously, there is a problem with those two Imoens, particularly if they have different DVs. But even with the same DV, the outcome dialogue and script options maybe unpredictable and even game breaking.

[EDIT] I made two sets of dialogues for Imoen DV and Imoen2 DV just to account for the game with and without BGT before Ascension switched to Imoen2 only.

This post has been edited by Vlad: May 22 2015, 07:26 AM

[Senka]

I vote for multiplayer button

[lambada]

I've had a similar issue with Dar as well. He wouldn't talk (I didn't kill of inhabitants, he simply wouldn't talk). It worked fine after I reinstalled however.

[Vlad]

His variable is set for killing all wolves and CombatCounter(0). Once all wolves are killed and the fight is over he should talk. I can amend it as Bill asked just for CombatCounter(0) so the animal lovers may enjoy saving poor wolves from cruel Dar.

This post has been edited by Vlad: May 22 2015, 10:45 AM

[Bill Bisco]

That'd be great Vlad, thanks! Minsc and Jaheira would appreciate it too! I'll respond more later. Thanks for your replies.

This post has been edited by Bill Bisco: May 22 2015, 12:59 PM

[Bill Bisco]

Seriously, if you wipe off the whole town with blood how can you get quests and continue further? In fact, in this situation, what should be done is just to make Hrothgar hostile, which would instantly ends your game.

I guess Vlad that's up to you as the modder/designer and what you're willing to implement

From a player's perspective, we like multiple options on how to proceed with the game and solve problems and sometimes in ways that the designer did not think of beforehand. We like multiple routes and the ability to explore and create our own quests. For a lot of others and myself, BG1 is our favorite of the Baldur's Gate Series because it had a lot of freedom of exploration. In my games, I went all the way up and down the map before finally arriving at Nashkel. My character didn't care about some silly Iron Crisis; that had nothing to do with him. He was glad to finally be out of Candlekeep and be able to explore.

For example, when I first arrived in Easthaven I was like "Wow. How do I get back home? Maybe there's a portal up a snowy mountain nearby that will return me. I guess I better get equipped and go find it." When I explored the map, I realized that there is only one map exit from Easthaven. Apparently I'm forced to take this caravan with Hrothgar, I cannot just go to the wilderness and find it for myself.

Another example, your NPC ,Shar-Teel, has lots of dialogue encouraging you to be more violent and not to take crap from anyone being rude to you. However, the mod doesn't actually let me follow through with these suggestions. If Pomnab the insufferable insulting Calimshite dies or goes red on your party, you're screwed because Hrothgar insists that you talk to Pomnab before leaving and you cannot leave except through talking to Hrothgar.

A third example. I usually try to semi-roleplay my games and I don't like reloading. Normally if you fail a pick pocket, that doesn't cause the whole town to hate you. If I have to reload the game for pickpocket, I guess I'll do it. But, I'd rather fail in stride and still be able to continue the game.


Ideally in my mind, the mod isn't dependent on individual npcs to move along. I haven't read the spoilers, but ideally you can get to BG2 without the game breaking and your PC becoming unable to progress (like mine is in Attempt #2). The other alternative which seems easier is to have all plot critical NPCs become unkillable and un-reddable. So, they'll always talk to the PCs and can't be killed which would break the game. This is a much better way of handling plot critical NPCs as opposed to the BG2 method of Arkanis Gath.


Also, I suggest you try a multiplayer game sometime. It can be a lot of fun. That multiplayer button is one definite thing that makes Baldur's Gate better than a lot of games including Pillars of Eternity and the upcoming Torment: Tides of Numenera. The movies can all be found online so a movie button seems unnecessary. Of course, you could just use a different UI, one that works off of the default ToB UI and let's you choose which game you want to start anyway.

This post has been edited by Bill Bisco: May 23 2015, 03:45 PM