Necro Run - thoughts Options

[conqueror]

Had a lot of fun doing this mod with a necromancer PC (much easier than my first run through with a vagrant).

My party was heavily warrior oriented:

Necromancer
Riskbreaker
Riskbreaker
Assassin/Fighter dual
Kensai/Mage dual
Ranger/Cleric multi

Riskbreakers are definitely better in two's, and I suspect even three would have worked well.

The Assassin was dualed once getting the Use Any Item high level ability. (Interestingly, it appears Fighter/Thief multiclasses don't get it in this mod?!). He was my most interesting character by far. Most IA items don't work with UAI, but Cernd's Cloak and the Scarlet Ioun Stone are two exceptions that I enjoyed. UAI follows your dualed fighter, so you are definitely a useful character well before you get your thief levels back. In fact, getting your thief levels back gets you basically nothing (poison weapon, yay) and maybe the +1 to hit and damage from being an assassin. I tried to focus on Physical Resistance items on this character, theorizing that I could get up to 95% once I hit HLAs on the fighter half and could choose Hardiness. But this involved some bad items (Warblade, Master of Disciplines un-upgraded). I much preferred to use the Royal Elemental Staff, which allowed for Tenser's Transformation to give me another 100+ HPs, with no loss in functionality - you can still use scrolls and such while transformed. I was bummed to see how poorly Backstab works in this mod, especially since the marquee thief dagger grants it as an ability. You can basically backstab spiders and vanilla creatures only. The hard foes - all golems, rakshasas, dragons, etc., looked to be immune.

Kensay was dualed at level 15, figuring that the +5 to hit would give it the same Thac0 as a level 20 warrior. The down time was rough, but it largely overlapped with my Assassin being dualed to a fighter, so I was basically a 5-person party up until around 7M experience.

Ranger/Cleric seems to classically be dualed here, and if I remembered that Holy Power spell which would give you fighter Thac0, I might have gone that route. I really just wanted this character to be a competent fighter the whole time, but more than half the time she was out of combat casting healing spells anyways.

Overall, the Necromancer is much easier than the Vagrant PC, with a much better storyline and side quests (in my opinion). Being un-silenceable against some big dragons is hugely important, and many castings of Recast Vital Energy help warriors stay in fights and dish out damage fast.

One thing I was surprised about was how journal posters somewhat gloss over the end part of the final battle. I have a very hard time with the Prince. In particular, I was off to a bad start when the Ultra Golem engaged with Pasha caught sight of me and gated in an Amber Golem. Via Farsight, I saw Pasha switch to fighting the Amber, and his health fell fairly fast. Still, my fighters did very well against the Supreme Golem and his Elemental, and right when they fell the NW Ultra finished off some summons so I could immediately engage him. My Necro was level 34 so I could easily Remove Magic the protections of the Nobles and Horrids, and drop them fast. Pasha unfortunately fell (was scared to check on him and heal with my R/C for fear of making things worse with another Amber gating in), so it was up to me to do most of the damage the third Ultra as well.

Finally got to focus on the prince, I think he used one AI, and then gated his last Noble, and then it was just me vs. him. And frankly, with 5 characters of Thac0 -12 to -16, I had a real tough time damaging him. I think I put way too many HLAs in Hardiness, versus Critical Strike... my ratio was like 12 to 6 or so. In hindsight, should have been more like 5 Hardiness, 13 Critical. His regen rate is insane. I have no idea how other parties (i.e. the journal with 2 Riskbreakers and 4 mages) could deal damage fast enough to get him to use his AIs. He casts Greater Malaison frequently... I rain out of yellow potions of magic shielding quite quickly... and so basically every hit I was getting repulsed away. Only thing I could think of in hindsight was Spell Immunity: Invocation. I assume that would block the effect of his field, so my Kensai/Mage could cast it and my Assassin/Fighter could cast it via scroll. As it was, with that many fighters, I still had to wish rest at least twice, just in this final portion of the battle. Maybe I should have used some level 9 spots for Monster Summoning? I just have no idea; unless they're immune to the field of repulse, I don't see how they'd help. I also assume they'd only be hitting on 19's and 20's. Or maybe missing Pasha was critical there. He's a great fighter and has great resistances, so wouldn't take much babysitting if he got involved.

Anyways, enjoyed it a ton, the last battle was indeed the hardest (for me at least) and I enjoyed the story line of the necro protag quests.

This post has been edited by conqueror: Jun 10 2014, 03:15 PM

[Sikret]

Any where in the game you find an enemy unkillable, rest assured that it is not cheating, it's rather an anti cheat (or anti-cheese) device. A player who plays fair and square and doesn't seek questionable methods to kill Layene prematurely won't even notice she is unkillable (as there are many other similar enemies through the game that are unkillable under certain scenarios but you haven't noticed because you have fought them plain and square).

Besides, when this battles starts, all of your characters are in Layene's line of sight by default. If you ended up into a position that Layene didn't see any of your characters, it only means that you ran away and tried to abuse the area structure.

[conqueror]

Any where in the game you find an enemy unkillable, rest assured that it is not cheating, it's rather an anti cheat (or anti-cheese) device. A player who plays fair and square and doesn't seek questionable methods to kill Layene prematurely won't even notice she is unkillable (as there are many other similar enemies through the game that are unkillable under certain scenarios but you haven't noticed because you have fought them plain and square).

This is demonstrably false. A number of enemies in this mod are unkillable at various points - the dragons that heal at 20% health, the Prince, etc. Using a MinHP=1 item is not the only way to ensure this, though it does feel like the most cheating. I could look up exactly how each of these was done, but I uninstalled the mod, so I'm going off memory here.

Besides, when this battles starts, all of your characters are in Layene's line of sight by default. If you ended up into a position that Layene didn't see any of your characters, it only means that you ran away and tried to abuse the area structure.

Good to know that the "divide and conquer" strategy used by every player in every game ever (BG and otherwise) is considered "abuse". Next time I play, I will run around in circles to gather up all the enemies and face them all at once, so as to ensure I am not abusing the game architecture.

[nicoper]

This is demonstrably false. A number of enemies in this mod are unkillable at various points - the dragons that heal at 20% health, the Prince, etc. Using a MinHP=1 item is not the only way to ensure this, though it does feel like the most cheating. I could look up exactly how each of these was done, but I uninstalled the mod, so I'm going off memory here.

Let's not confuse many things:
- a dragon (or any other creature) that heals under some circumstancs is the same thing than a party member casting heal (btw not many enemies, just 1 IIRC, uses Greater restaoration...)
- some enemies can't be killed under some circumstances, either for anti-cheat (cf Sikret post) measures, or to allow them to be a bit more relevant enemies. for this second category, it is IMO understandable enemies can do things party cannot to provide a bit of challenge (comes to my mind Tabhita unkillable before beastmaster is dead, Falahar unkillable before GR, Prince unkillable before golems dead,...)
I would say there is few enemies that cannot be (theorically, HP, resist and and buffs have to be taken into acount) killed on the spot.

Two cannot be killed at all for sure:
SPOILER!

ice and ultra golems spawning with dragon abazigail

Good to know that the "divide and conquer" strategy used by every player in every game ever (BG and otherwise) is considered "abuse". Next time I play, I will run around in circles to gather up all the enemies and face them all at once, so as to ensure I am not abusing the game architecture.

May be I'm wrong, but I think Sikret put measures (on some creatures) only if no party member at al is within sight. Divide and conquer you still may use very often (fortunately ).

[Hideous the W...]

Two cannot be killed at all for sure:
SPOILER!

ice and ultra golems spawning with dragon abazigail

I was wondering about that...that's where I got stuck in my last run and postponed that party.

You'd like the party I'm using nicoper -

Vagrant Protagonist
Fighter/Illusionist multiclass
Cleric/Thief multiclass
Riskbreaker
Keldorn
Haer D'alis

Some fights were really tough but some not as much as I thought. I started a journal (like usual), but quit writing things down as I went after a while (like usual). I might organize it sometime and post some of the more interesting early fights I had.

conqueror - I think I may try your Assassin>Fighter high level dual... that sounds like something I'd really like!

[nicoper]

You'd like the party I'm using nicoper -

Vagrant Protagonist
Fighter/Illusionist multiclass
Cleric/Thief multiclass
Riskbreaker
Keldorn
Haer D'alis

Yes I do
problem is I wish one day I have ideas like yours when composing party
That said, did not play BG2 for a long time now (some 9-10 months that is) and you give me motivation to start a new run
I may even consider a vagrant protag, but only thinking of drowned soul (I mean spiders with it),.....I think I will not

May be will think (inspired by you and conqueror) about a heavy "late-dualled" party, multi is not my cup of tea

conqueror - I think I may try your Assassin>Fighter high level dual... that sounds like something I'd really like!

True that conqueror did make an interesting pick there! one idea less to find if I resume an IA run, thanks conqueror!