Imoen as 13th level sorcerer Options

[Sikret]

Imoen will appear as a sorcerer in spellhold. Her base (minimum) level will be 13. If your protagonist is high level enough she will gain additional XP to level up after she joins you. The additional spells after the level up will be chosen by the player during the game. What we want to decide over now in this poll is to determine her base spells as a 13th level sorcerer.

I have chosen most of her spells (as a 13th level sorcerer) in an optimized way for your needs in IA (as probably I know the usefulness and power of each spell in IA better than most other players). However, I want your opinions about the few remaining spell slots. Her current list of spells are as follows:

First level spells:

- Magic Missile

- Shield

- Larloch's minor drain

- Identify

- Burning Hands

Second level spells:

- Mirro Image

- Melf's Acid Arrow

- Blur

- Resist Fear

- One last spell you need to vote for and choose

Third level spells:

- Vampiric Touch

- Flame Arrow

- Remove Magic

- Dispel Magic

Fourth level spells:

- Emotion

- Ray of Fragmentation

- Stoneskin

- One last spell you need to vote for and choose

Fifth level spells:

- Breach

- Oracle

- One last spell you need to vote for and choose

Sixth level spells:

- Protection from Magic Energy

- One last spell you need to vote for and choose

As I said, if your protagonist is high level, Imoen will gain additional XP once she joins the party and may immediately level up. Those additional spells (after the level up) will be chosen by the player. What we want to determine now are her remaining spells as a 13th level sorcerer.

Note 1: I don't guarantee that I will follow the result of the poll accurately (as I still know things about the mod that voters may not know), but I guarantee that I will consider the poll as one of my main criteria for making the final decision. In other words, I have reasons to prefer some of the options to others, but those reasons are not decisive (if they were decisive I wouldn't need to create a poll) and I will surely consider the poll and your comments before making the final decision about each spell level.

Note 2: The options in the poll are written in alphabetical order. So, the order doesn't show anything about my own preferences.

[Sikret]

Thanks, shadan!

Just one point:

As I wrote elsewhere, electricity-based offensive spells are most useful in IA (specially in v4.3) and that's why I put "Chain Lightning" as a meaningful option in the poll. I'm not saying that it's necessarily a better choice than the other two options however.

PS: And I certainly don't agree with the statement that mages/sorcerers are merely (or even mostly) buffers/debuffers in IA. They can still be most useful offensively if the player knows how to play with them and picks the right offensive spells. The traditional offensive methods (such as timestop + three Abi Dalzim spells) do not work any longer and that's perhaps why some players have thought that mages and sorcerers are not useful offensively. Those players have simply failed to find any new offensive methods.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Jul 17 2007, 11:54 AM

[rbeverjr]

PS: And I certainly don't agree with the statement that mages/sorcerers are merely (or even mostly) buffers/debuffers in IA. They can still be most useful offensively if the player knows how to play with them and picks the right offensive spells.

I am quite certain that I haven't discovered how to optimize my arcane caster's offensive power. Nevertheless, Imoen will be part of a TEAM. Thus, it is important to consider team efficiency rather than just efficiency of the sorcerer. For instance, is it most effective for the sorcerer to be casting offensive spells or buffing/debuffing? Although the answer may vary depending on the encounter, so far I have discovered few monsters that I could destroy with offensive magic that was worth the spell (i.e. the kensai could just hack them to death). Also, some spells are worth taking to save your bacon. Even if you have multiple casters and someone else has Remove Fear or Greater Malisson, it is sometimes helpful to have multiple casters with those spells (like when one of the casters is taken out of the fight). The bane of the sorcerer is in second edition he can not replace his chosen spells as he levels. A spell that is excellent at low level (like perhaps Spider Spawn) can be useless at high level (one whack kills), and that makes it a dubious choice. Another thing about team efficiency is Knock is only appropriate if you are not going to have a decent thief.

If I play Imoen as a sorcerer, I may redo her spells as follows (which in certain cases will also indicate my choice on the polls; however, I'm not voting because my choices are so divergent):

LEVEL 1
Protection from Evil
Friends
Identify
Magic Missile
Spook

LEVEL 2
Glitterdust
Mirror Image
Web
Blur
Resist Fear

LEVEL 3
Slow
Melf's Minute Meteors
Haste
Remove Magic
Skull Trap

LEVEL 4
Stoneskin
Spirit Armor
Fireshield Red
Fireshield Blue or possibly Ray of Fracture Golem
Greater Malisson

LEVEL 5
Spell Immunity
Spell Shield
Breach
Lower Resistance
Sunfire

LEVEL 6
Improved Haste
Death Spell
Protection from Magic Energy
Protection from Magic Weapons
Contingency

LEVEL 7
Ruby Ray of Reversal
Mordenkainen's Sword
Protection from the Elements
Projected Image replacement maybe
Delayed Blast Fireball

LEVEL 8
Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
Spell Trigger
Protection from Energy
Incendiary Cloud???
Simulacrum

LEVEL 9
Chain Contingency
Imprisonment
Time Stop
Wish
Power Word Kill
Improved Alacrity
Energy Blades
Dragon's Breath

I also invite people's comments on these spells for a sorcerer's selection - which I feel relates directly to the subject of this poll/thread (at lower levels at least )

[Sikret]

I am quite certain that I haven't discovered how to optimize my arcane caster's offensive power.

Yes, I see that much by looking at your list of selected spells. Your list may be good for vanilla game but it's far from useful in IA. As I said, I have optimized Imoen's selection of spells for Improved Anvil. So, I recommend that if you decide to play with Imoen as a sorcerer in v4.3, do not change her spells with shadow keeper and try to find the right tactics with the new list of spells.

Just one example: Vampiric Touch is by far the best 3rd level spell while playing IA. It's a true nightmare for golems and other enemies with magic resistance (as the spell bypasses MR). My sorcerer is my number 1 golem slayer and inflicts more damage to golems than your Kensai can do with his biggest sword. This will be even better in v4.3 with the new 4th level spell. A brave sorcerer with Vampiric Touch and Ray of Fragmentation who doesn't just sit back casting buffs on other party members can do very well in close combats.

As I have said before, one reason for which many players have complained that IA has changed the game to hack&slash is that they have not found the new tactics to play offensively with their mages and sorcerers. They cling to traditional methods which will not work so well in IA. For example, casting a timestop followed by three ADHW will no longer kill every enemy in the area. You should read the readme about the spells' powers and use your creativity to make new tactical ideas.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Jul 18 2007, 08:20 AM

[rbeverjr]

I am quite certain that I haven't discovered how to optimize my arcane caster's offensive power.

Yes, I see that much by looking at your list of selected spells. Your list may be good for vanilla game but it's far from useful in IA.

Well don't throw rocks at me yet, as I have yet to complete my second complete run through of Improved Anvil. The spell list that I presented was useful in IA - even if it could be made more optimal. Incidentally, my list for the vanilla game is different from this list and concentrates much more on offensive spell power.

My kensai is quite effective against golems; so, I am anxious to try the drain spell on golems if that should work even better. In fact, I think I may take my ToB group and CLUA in some of the tougher monsters to try out Imoen's spell list. Even so, I must keep in mind that spells which do little damage may not be good enough in the late game and so not worth a spell slot. I'm sure Sikret has considered this, and no one should know which spells are more effective in this mod than him. So, I need to run my little experiment to explore these spell's utility.