Demon Lord vs Judgement Day (Spoilers) Options

[rbeverjr]

I just installed IA at the end of SoA. It's been nice for the most part. Irenicus at the Tree seemed to be Unbreechable - that's not fair. I did kill him with Dragon's Breath, no characters died, and no reload, but still. Irenicus in hell was a nice improvement over the stock game without being totally overboard like Tactics Improved Irenicus. I then went through Saradush and Watcher's Keep (through level 4). I have no major complaints there either. The game has become more challenging. However, when I received Angurvadal and left the Watcher's Keep to face the demon lord (upper right area at Watcher's Keep's exterior), I was VERY disappointed.

This is the cheesiest encounter that I've ever had the misfortune to see. Please spoil me. How do you defeat this crew? Specifically, I am talking about the demon lord and his 2 buddies.

As near as I can tell, the demon lord is immune to high level traps as well as time stop. If you normally do 30 HP damage/strike, you may do 8 - provided that you can strip his protections. A level 30 inquisitor's dispel magic (that'd be level 60 spell power) wasn't keeping things under control - I'm not sure it was working at all! Does everyone always have immunity to abjuration and divination (vs True Seeing)? Both his buddies wield Soul Reavers. I started with a -20 THACO or so and ended up with a +50 THACO or so. Isn't that sweet... I've tried many things and none seemed to work. He seems to have an inexhaustible spell supply. So, I doubt hit and come back later cheese would help. Mord's swords are only distractions. Planetars and elementals are lunch. Of course, dragon's breath is useless. So, what's the solution?

I hope the author tones this encounter down a lot.... If he thinks the weapon you may get some day from this encounter is too powerful - then dump the weapon. As it is, this encounter is STUPIDLY difficult. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's mine!)

I have been playing DnD from the first version until the latest. I am also a very experienced BG2 player. I generally/usually avoid using spells and tactics that would not be allowed/couldn't succeed while a human judge was running a DnD 3.5 table. That alone makes the game MUCH, MUCH harder. But for the game's replay value, I like new mods. Unfortunately, some tactical mods go far overboard, such as this encounter and Tactics Improved Irenicus (to name 2). Some people like tactical puzzles, but I play for enjoyment when I'm really too tired to solve some tough puzzles. If I have to reload more than 3 times on Core difficulty to beat and encounter, I consider it too much. Tactics Pontifex is one I had to reload more than 3x to succeed with all my team intact; although, I did luck out and kill him in 2 rounds on Insane once. I say this only to indicate that I am an experienced player to hopefully convince the author that this encounter is a little too difficult for the general player population.

I'm sure there's something my tired brain overlooked. So, please tell me how to defeat these guys. If someone can't help me, then this encounter will receive the ultimate rebuff, CTRL-Y the baddies and leave the treasure on the ground except for the component.

[Romulas]

@Sikret

With the purpose behind the battle I can understand better, with the current judgement day end battle so to speak it just didn't seem plausible from a role playing point of view.

I think the biggest part of trying to adapt to the new ia and its methods is changing the way I play my mages or sorcerers. In previous versions I played them as battle mages, and especially at the higher levels many times they would engage the enemy quickly. Now that they are relegated to a supporting role much of the tactics have been removed. Let me elaborate some.

Now, if a high level fighter with a good armor class and saving throws can withstand the first 5 to 10 rounds of battle with the super casters (those that fire 10 spells when the encounter starts) then the battle is his for the most part. In my opinion the game has now become a hack and slash type of game, and for some that is enough. I am not knocking anyone for liking this type of game.

I played the battle with the demon lord twice, with two different parties. The first party with a sorcerer and that party eventually won, the sorcerer was mainly a summoner because when he got within sight to cast protection removeal spells he got tee'd off on. The second party was strong on fighting and weak on magic, in fact the magic-users and thief stayed in the tower while my two high level fighters eventually won the battle, merely hack and slash. I believe that the second party had the easier time, the key here was surviving till the spells worn off the death lords.

In the first part of the game it is helpful to have lots of missile firing party members, but at the higher levels this is almost a waste as the greatest missile weapon (ones readily available) is only +3, and many of the monsters are either immune to missile weapons or have a high resistence.

I think one of the cheesies things I have seen so far is a monster that can only be hit be a certain plus weapon, hence he is immune to normal weapons then putting protection from magic weapons on him makes him invincible for 4 rounds (successive contingencies extend this).

There used to be a rule stating that a character could not have protection from normal weapons AND magical weapons on at the same time, hence not allowing the character to be invulnerable for a time. The spirit of this requirement was to keep things balanced. Now, fighting Lavok I can assure you balance was not the case, with his protection from magic weapons and natureal resistence to non-magical weapons. I emptied my quivers on that boy and he grunted.

It just seems that much has been removed from the game in the spirit of trying to make it better. For instance, the battle with the demon lord and even more so the demon prince was 10 times harder then the battle with demogorgon. And this is the demon prince that Helm personally had to imprison. In many ways it seems to lessen the story line of the original game.

This is of course all my own opinion, but this is why we discuss these things.

I think I will restart yet again and this time have a fighter, thief, and fighter/mage for my pc. See how it goes with just 3.

Romulas