Demon Lord vs Judgement Day (Spoilers) Options

[rbeverjr]

I just installed IA at the end of SoA. It's been nice for the most part. Irenicus at the Tree seemed to be Unbreechable - that's not fair. I did kill him with Dragon's Breath, no characters died, and no reload, but still. Irenicus in hell was a nice improvement over the stock game without being totally overboard like Tactics Improved Irenicus. I then went through Saradush and Watcher's Keep (through level 4). I have no major complaints there either. The game has become more challenging. However, when I received Angurvadal and left the Watcher's Keep to face the demon lord (upper right area at Watcher's Keep's exterior), I was VERY disappointed.

This is the cheesiest encounter that I've ever had the misfortune to see. Please spoil me. How do you defeat this crew? Specifically, I am talking about the demon lord and his 2 buddies.

As near as I can tell, the demon lord is immune to high level traps as well as time stop. If you normally do 30 HP damage/strike, you may do 8 - provided that you can strip his protections. A level 30 inquisitor's dispel magic (that'd be level 60 spell power) wasn't keeping things under control - I'm not sure it was working at all! Does everyone always have immunity to abjuration and divination (vs True Seeing)? Both his buddies wield Soul Reavers. I started with a -20 THACO or so and ended up with a +50 THACO or so. Isn't that sweet... I've tried many things and none seemed to work. He seems to have an inexhaustible spell supply. So, I doubt hit and come back later cheese would help. Mord's swords are only distractions. Planetars and elementals are lunch. Of course, dragon's breath is useless. So, what's the solution?

I hope the author tones this encounter down a lot.... If he thinks the weapon you may get some day from this encounter is too powerful - then dump the weapon. As it is, this encounter is STUPIDLY difficult. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's mine!)

I have been playing DnD from the first version until the latest. I am also a very experienced BG2 player. I generally/usually avoid using spells and tactics that would not be allowed/couldn't succeed while a human judge was running a DnD 3.5 table. That alone makes the game MUCH, MUCH harder. But for the game's replay value, I like new mods. Unfortunately, some tactical mods go far overboard, such as this encounter and Tactics Improved Irenicus (to name 2). Some people like tactical puzzles, but I play for enjoyment when I'm really too tired to solve some tough puzzles. If I have to reload more than 3 times on Core difficulty to beat and encounter, I consider it too much. Tactics Pontifex is one I had to reload more than 3x to succeed with all my team intact; although, I did luck out and kill him in 2 rounds on Insane once. I say this only to indicate that I am an experienced player to hopefully convince the author that this encounter is a little too difficult for the general player population.

I'm sure there's something my tired brain overlooked. So, please tell me how to defeat these guys. If someone can't help me, then this encounter will receive the ultimate rebuff, CTRL-Y the baddies and leave the treasure on the ground except for the component.

[thetruth]

Personally, I think that any fighter with Stoneskin and Protection from Magic Weapons and other spells is more "overpowered."

Who said that I don't consider F/Ms overpowered as well ?


But even a high level F/M with every protection possible can be defeated since his/her protections can be dispelled.

Now a Morituri at the XP CAP can have a "permanent" 100% resistance to physical damage ( 40% innate + 20% Defender of E. + 40% Hardiness).

Hardiness has a long duration at high levels (5-6 of them can get you through a high duration battle) and note that it is undispellable.
Now add on top of that a MR of near 100%, a -8 to saving throws, elemental resistances and other immunitites/abilities.

Honestly I can't find a more powerful kit out there.Maybe only the Druidic Sorcerer can be compared to power and even he will be much less effective with a mod like IA.

[rbeverjr]

[quote name='thetruth' date='Feb 26 2007, 04:47 PM' post='20905']
[quote]But even a high level F/M with every protection possible can be defeated since his/her protections can be dispelled.[/quote]

That's why smart mages have spell immunity abjuration and perhaps also SI divination ready - could be a buff or part of a contingency/chain/trigger. It seems that Alesa-BH is a caster that is not easily defeated.

[thetruth]

That's why smart mages have spell immunity abjuration and perhaps also SI divination ready - could be a buff or part of a contingency/chain/trigger. It seems that Alesa-BH is a caster that is not easily defeated.

Yes but tough enemy spell-casters have at least the means to dispel such protections.

Dragons,Liches and other tough enemies (from mods) for example have Ruby Ray and SI: Divination is useless against them.

Easily? - Of course not.Never said that. But (at least potentially) they have the spells to deal with the protections of a F/M. Something that is not true for a high level Morituri (except if someone scripts them to cast Breach on him).

And SI doesn't enter in a Contigency/Trigger btw.

That said I don't ignore the fact that an Arcane spell caster (Wild Mages/Sorcerers mostly) can become invincible with some tactics/spells (cheesy or not).
And I repeat that I do consider the F/M overpowered.

Fortunately Sikret in the 4th version of IA has changed a lot of things regarding Arcane magic cheese.

Of course, but I could put it back up or enjoy a free round of offense while you work on that... In high level battles on table top, the first action (let alone the first round of actions) can make the difference in the battle.

It's not so simple as it seems rbeverjr.
Just be sure to read carefully the Readmes before playing with IA4

Still, the battle costs a lot of resources and even real time to beat them down. ........
I expect to have to reload sometimes simply because I play when I'm too tired to think. But this was nothing more than a puzzle.

You know this is why I like so much mods like IA.

I don't find frustrating at all the fact that you have to spend much time (reloads) if you want to win a difficult battle (OK probably the problem is mine - call me crazy ).
But I like these mods for this kind of challenge they offer.

[rbeverjr]

I don't find frustrating at all the fact that you have to spend much time (reloads) if you want to win a difficult battle (OK probably the problem is mine - call me crazy ). But I like these mods for this kind of challenge they offer.

You're crazy. (just joking). I'm sure there are other people like you. But if you will take a clue from the games marketed by Bioware, you can see that you are in the minority. For instance, NWN2 was toooo easy. Most people are NOT looking for this much challenge. I want more of a challenge than the stock game, but less of a challenge than the Demon/Death lord battle. This challenge came about mostly because they had abilities that were too deadly (Soul Reaver attacks), and an overall defense that was more impressive than any morituri! Obviously, the battle can be won. But under DnD 2 rules, the most likely way you will win is metagaming (using player knowledge rather than character knowledge). - Darn that didn't work. Reload. Reload again. Reload again. Oh Hades, let's take a look at what's special about the opposition. Oh, that's why my tactics are failing. Fine. Reload. Womp! 'Bout dang time....

I would bet on a fighter-mage or pure arcane winning the battle against a morituri as I have previously detailed. If the scripters are targeting fighter-mages but not morituri with defense strippers, then the fighter-mages are still serving a purpose on the team by occupying the foes “attacks.” Hopefully, they are not free actions by the foes!

I like DnD 3.5 where there seems to be a better balance in the classes. Fighters are generally more valuable at lower levels than other classes, while mages are probably the most dominant class at high levels. Still, each class can be valuable at any level. The mage has been the most dominant high level class in every edition of DnD. (Some people may argue the cleric’s case, who is very powerful. But I’ve seen mages dominate the battle field alone.) I think this trend should be respected by modifiers. Limit arcane cheese without limiting their position as a dominant force. Please Sikret, don’t reduce mages to a summoner and defense stripper. (This comment is based mostly on the repeated remarks that I have read saying that mages have become much less effective –ineffective?- in the modified game, rather than personal experience; so take it with a grain of salt 

This post has been edited by rbeverjr: Feb 27 2007, 07:05 PM