Demon Lord vs Judgement Day (Spoilers) Options

[rbeverjr]

I just installed IA at the end of SoA. It's been nice for the most part. Irenicus at the Tree seemed to be Unbreechable - that's not fair. I did kill him with Dragon's Breath, no characters died, and no reload, but still. Irenicus in hell was a nice improvement over the stock game without being totally overboard like Tactics Improved Irenicus. I then went through Saradush and Watcher's Keep (through level 4). I have no major complaints there either. The game has become more challenging. However, when I received Angurvadal and left the Watcher's Keep to face the demon lord (upper right area at Watcher's Keep's exterior), I was VERY disappointed.

This is the cheesiest encounter that I've ever had the misfortune to see. Please spoil me. How do you defeat this crew? Specifically, I am talking about the demon lord and his 2 buddies.

As near as I can tell, the demon lord is immune to high level traps as well as time stop. If you normally do 30 HP damage/strike, you may do 8 - provided that you can strip his protections. A level 30 inquisitor's dispel magic (that'd be level 60 spell power) wasn't keeping things under control - I'm not sure it was working at all! Does everyone always have immunity to abjuration and divination (vs True Seeing)? Both his buddies wield Soul Reavers. I started with a -20 THACO or so and ended up with a +50 THACO or so. Isn't that sweet... I've tried many things and none seemed to work. He seems to have an inexhaustible spell supply. So, I doubt hit and come back later cheese would help. Mord's swords are only distractions. Planetars and elementals are lunch. Of course, dragon's breath is useless. So, what's the solution?

I hope the author tones this encounter down a lot.... If he thinks the weapon you may get some day from this encounter is too powerful - then dump the weapon. As it is, this encounter is STUPIDLY difficult. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's mine!)

I have been playing DnD from the first version until the latest. I am also a very experienced BG2 player. I generally/usually avoid using spells and tactics that would not be allowed/couldn't succeed while a human judge was running a DnD 3.5 table. That alone makes the game MUCH, MUCH harder. But for the game's replay value, I like new mods. Unfortunately, some tactical mods go far overboard, such as this encounter and Tactics Improved Irenicus (to name 2). Some people like tactical puzzles, but I play for enjoyment when I'm really too tired to solve some tough puzzles. If I have to reload more than 3 times on Core difficulty to beat and encounter, I consider it too much. Tactics Pontifex is one I had to reload more than 3x to succeed with all my team intact; although, I did luck out and kill him in 2 rounds on Insane once. I say this only to indicate that I am an experienced player to hopefully convince the author that this encounter is a little too difficult for the general player population.

I'm sure there's something my tired brain overlooked. So, please tell me how to defeat these guys. If someone can't help me, then this encounter will receive the ultimate rebuff, CTRL-Y the baddies and leave the treasure on the ground except for the component.

[rbeverjr]

No fighter, barbarian, monk, morituri, or other fighter-type kit should survive timestop (comparing them to fighter-mage types). In an unmodded game, I would play the kensai. He will have a better offense for most of the game, and the unmodded game will not be too much a threat to his survival. In IA, I think it will be much more enjoyable to have that Damage resistance. Not that you can't get 100% DR other ways between items and Bhaal powers. I do admit the defenses of a high level morituri (with Spirit Armor) support is the best of the fighter-types and is why I am taking it for IA. If I find the game tougher than I want, I'll have to switch to PC = illusionist-fighter!

This post has been edited by rbeverjr: Feb 26 2007, 11:52 PM

[thetruth]

No fighter, barbarian, monk, morituri, or other fighter-type kit should survive timestop (comparing them to fighter-mage types).

Why not rbeverjr ?

Even without the Morituri's MR a fighter can avoid many spells (since they take effect when time returns normal).

ADHWs and Dragon's Breaths can be dodged with high speed (and the use of the pause button) (Morituri cannot be hasted but their innate bonuses to movement rate are more than enough), spells which do elemental dmg can be avoided with the right items , immunities from weapons and items can protect from other spells too and since warrior types have the best saving throws and HPs of all classes they can survive more than one Timestop (maybe except some of the "special" Timestops of IA ).

[rbeverjr]

Why not rbeverjr ?

Even without the Morituri's MR a fighter can avoid many spells (since they take effect when time returns normal).

ADHWs and Dragon's Breaths can be dodged with high speed (and the use of the pause button) (Morituri cannot be hasted but their innate bonuses to movement rate are more than enough), spells which do elemental dmg can be avoided with the right items , immunities from weapons and items can protect from other spells too and since warrior types have the best saving throws and HPs of all classes they can survive more than one Timestop (maybe except some of the "special" Timestops of IA ).

There are a number of ways: imprisonment; stat-drain from mindflayer; chaos blade, etc.; harm and bang from FMC (XP cap removed); Improved alacrity and a ton of no save damage spells (MM, etc.); etc. I'm mentioning this cheese to establish the extent of cheesiness in the BG2 arcane system.

Then again, outrunning wilting and dragon's breathe sounds pretty cheesy too. I've never tried that one.

[thetruth]

There are a number of ways: imprisonment; stat-drain from mindflayer; chaos blade, etc.; harm and bang from FMC (XP cap removed); Improved alacrity and a ton of no save damage spells (MM, etc.); etc. I'm mentioning this cheese to establish the extent of cheesiness in the BG2 arcane system.

Ah OK you are talking about hypothetical situations.
I was talking about spells during Timestops in the game (with or without some of the tactical mods).

Then yes spell-casters have many ways to kill a fighter during a Timestop (like in IA as I mentioned in my previous post).

Though Imprisonment can be blocked by the Spell Turning (Book of Infinite Spells) and the Pf Magic Scrolls (obviously).

Harm does not ignore MR.

"chaos blade" ? - You mean Black Blade of Disaster probably.

As about INT drain from Mind Flayers I am not sure if there is an in-game protection for the player except from the PfMWs.
Fortunately I haven't seen it yet in a mod (and I DON'T want to see it ).

[rbeverjr]

There are a number of ways: imprisonment; stat-drain from mindflayer; chaos blade, etc.; harm and bang from FMC (XP cap removed); Improved alacrity and a ton of no save damage spells (MM, etc.); etc. I'm mentioning this cheese to establish the extent of cheesiness in the BG2 arcane system.

Ah OK you are talking about hypothetical situations.
I was talking about spells during Timestops in the game (with or without some of the tactical mods).

Then yes spell-casters have many ways to kill a fighter during a Timestop (like in IA as I mentioned in my previous post).

Though Imprisonment can be blocked by the Spell Turning (Book of Infinite Spells) and the Pf Magic Scrolls (obviously).

Harm does not ignore MR.

"chaos blade" ? - You mean Black Blade of Disaster probably.

As about INT drain from Mind Flayers I am not sure if there is an in-game protection for the player except from the PfMWs.
Fortunately I haven't seen it yet in a mod (and I DON'T want to see it ).

Of course, the mage fires off his triggers/chain contingencies before or during time stop. The fighter will have no protections and MR if multiple breach and lower resistance can take care of that. And I'm talking about the bard NPC's dex-drain blade.

Speaking of Lower Resistance (back on topic) is that Demon Lord immune to Lower Resistance?

[thetruth]

And I'm talking about the bard NPC's dex-drain blade.

Speaking of Lower Resistance (back on topic) is that Demon Lord immune to Lower Resistance?

Ah OK. The Chaos Blade has been nerfed in v.4 of IA BTW.

And I think that the Demon Lord is immune to Lower Resistance, though I am not 100% sure.