Demon Lord vs Judgement Day (Spoilers) Options

[rbeverjr]

I just installed IA at the end of SoA. It's been nice for the most part. Irenicus at the Tree seemed to be Unbreechable - that's not fair. I did kill him with Dragon's Breath, no characters died, and no reload, but still. Irenicus in hell was a nice improvement over the stock game without being totally overboard like Tactics Improved Irenicus. I then went through Saradush and Watcher's Keep (through level 4). I have no major complaints there either. The game has become more challenging. However, when I received Angurvadal and left the Watcher's Keep to face the demon lord (upper right area at Watcher's Keep's exterior), I was VERY disappointed.

This is the cheesiest encounter that I've ever had the misfortune to see. Please spoil me. How do you defeat this crew? Specifically, I am talking about the demon lord and his 2 buddies.

As near as I can tell, the demon lord is immune to high level traps as well as time stop. If you normally do 30 HP damage/strike, you may do 8 - provided that you can strip his protections. A level 30 inquisitor's dispel magic (that'd be level 60 spell power) wasn't keeping things under control - I'm not sure it was working at all! Does everyone always have immunity to abjuration and divination (vs True Seeing)? Both his buddies wield Soul Reavers. I started with a -20 THACO or so and ended up with a +50 THACO or so. Isn't that sweet... I've tried many things and none seemed to work. He seems to have an inexhaustible spell supply. So, I doubt hit and come back later cheese would help. Mord's swords are only distractions. Planetars and elementals are lunch. Of course, dragon's breath is useless. So, what's the solution?

I hope the author tones this encounter down a lot.... If he thinks the weapon you may get some day from this encounter is too powerful - then dump the weapon. As it is, this encounter is STUPIDLY difficult. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's mine!)

I have been playing DnD from the first version until the latest. I am also a very experienced BG2 player. I generally/usually avoid using spells and tactics that would not be allowed/couldn't succeed while a human judge was running a DnD 3.5 table. That alone makes the game MUCH, MUCH harder. But for the game's replay value, I like new mods. Unfortunately, some tactical mods go far overboard, such as this encounter and Tactics Improved Irenicus (to name 2). Some people like tactical puzzles, but I play for enjoyment when I'm really too tired to solve some tough puzzles. If I have to reload more than 3 times on Core difficulty to beat and encounter, I consider it too much. Tactics Pontifex is one I had to reload more than 3x to succeed with all my team intact; although, I did luck out and kill him in 2 rounds on Insane once. I say this only to indicate that I am an experienced player to hopefully convince the author that this encounter is a little too difficult for the general player population.

I'm sure there's something my tired brain overlooked. So, please tell me how to defeat these guys. If someone can't help me, then this encounter will receive the ultimate rebuff, CTRL-Y the baddies and leave the treasure on the ground except for the component.

[thetruth]

@rbeverjr

Both his buddies wield Soul Reavers. I started with a -20 THACO or so and ended up with a +50 THACO or so.

Have you tried to make the Death Lords attack a character with PfMWs ?
If you don't have a F/M or a Bard even a pure Mage with the right protections could distract the Death Lords and absorb their hits.

A good way to prevent Protection Removals spells (R.Magic, Breach, Ruby Ray) from dispelling your buffs would be to use SI:Abjuration + Spell Shield + Spell Trap.
Also pause very often the game and read the battle text carefully.
If the Demons bring down your SI: Abjuration be ready to cast another one immediately.

I don't remember if in that fight the Demons use Death Spell.If not Mord. Swords can be very effective too.

A level 30 inquisitor's dispel magic (that'd be level 60 spell power) wasn't keeping things under control - I'm not sure it was working at all!

Dispel Magic from an Inquisitor will work 100% if they don't have SI: Abjuration.
But note that some protective spells are not affected by Dispel/Remove Magic, like:

a)Spell Turning,Minor S.Turning
b)Globe of Invulnerability,Minor G.of Invulnerability
c)Spell Trap
d)Spell Immunity
e)Spell Deflection,Minor S.Deflection
f)Spell Shield

If enemies have SI: Divination then you could use Dispel Magic for the rest of their protections, or even better you could use the Wands of Spell Striking (from W.Keep) which can target the partially visible enemies.

He seems to have an inexhaustible spell supply.

I don't think this is true. Well if you keep running away from them then they will refresh their spells but not if you fight without avoiding them.

As it is, this encounter is STUPIDLY difficult. (Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's mine!)

I don't agree with that.This encounter is far from impossible but this is just my opinion as you said .

And as Romulas said the second encounter for the Judgement Day sword is much more difficult.That is indeed extremely difficult but still doable with the right tactics.

Also since the player who wins these encounters gets as a reward an extremely powerful weapon and since you are not "forced" to do these fights in order to proceed the game, I don't think that they should be easier IMHO.



@Romulas

Many of the encounters are a fight or nothing encounter, meaning due to sikrets great hatred of hit and retreat tactics (cheese as he calls it)

I must say that when I first tested IA I didn't agree with Sikret on this.
I thought (and I still think) that hit&run tactics are not cheesy and sould be allowed.

But Sikret has convinced me that the hit&run tactics can be exploited by the player at a point that can make even the most difficult battle much more easier.

Just think about it guys: a tough enemy has lets say 5 PfMWs spells and 5 Ruby Ray, Breach spells. With hit&run tactics the player just with one character can make him to waste all of his spells, avoiding to fight and after the enemy has finished his spells the player could attack with all his party members and kill him quickly.

Unfortunately it is another limitation of the game's AI.
No enemy with a decent INT would keep casting PfMWs if he saw that the player keeps running away from him.

Sikret has found that solution in order to prevent exploiting this situation.If someone has a better solution to propose, I am sure that Sikret would be very glad to hear it

you either fight with every party member (aka you must gather your party before proceeding), or avoid the encounter.

But still you don't have to fight with every party member.
You can always keep back your weaker party members, or even out of the enemy's visual range, without having to avoid the encounter.

I think the great sikret missed one of these tactics at watchers keep. It would seem that you can take your character one at a time (or group) to the top of the keep and the bad guys won't follow.

I don't think that Sikret missed this.
But since you can't avoid fighting for more than some seconds (since enemies will refresh their spells) it cannot be exploited in an cheesy way (another situation which gives right to Sikret for making enemies to refresh their spells/buffs).

You can still make your badly injured party members retreat for healing but it doesn't make the battle much easier IMO, since without the right tactics you will not defeat them anyway.

[Romulas]

you either fight with every party member (aka you must gather your party before proceeding), or avoid the encounter.

But still you don't have to fight with every party member.
You can always keep back your weaker party members, or even out of the enemy's visual range, without having to avoid the encounter.

To thetruth, actually you do. Two words, grave liche. It has to be how I would envision entering a meat grinder. You can protect some characters but others are going to die and die permanently.

Romulas (by the way thanks for some of the tips, I might even try some if I can force myself back to the computer after getting shlacked so many times)