Spell memorization Options

[Shadan]

I am new in IA. Played BG2 some years ago, now I want to try IA. I read that new version will come out soon, so I have a suggestion.
In PnP version you can memorize a lower level spell into a higher spell slot. At least it is in 3.0 and 3.5, I am not sure about 2nd ed. since I am plying 3rd ed. since years. So you can memorize for example one lvl 1, 2 or 3 spell into one lvl 4 spell slot. This would help when you need important buffs for example Chatoic Command, but you want to use some ohter lvl 4 spells also...
Just an idea for IA 4.3.

[Raven]

I think that's a good idea, in pnp it certainly is really handy.

Unfortunately, even if this could be implemented in the BG system, IMO it could be unbalancing because of how good some of the low-level spells are, for instance Flame Arrow, Skull Trap and Spook.

In 3rd edition pnp the lower-level spells are far more limited in terms of e.g. the maximum damage they may cause. Because Flame Arrow and Skull Trap have no damage cap in BG2, at high levels they actually deal more damage than some (capped) higher level spells.

[Sikret]

Plus, I'm a 2nd edition fan.



BTW, welcome to the forum, shadan!

[Shadan]

OK, there is a reason about Flame Arrow and Skull Trap, but why is so good that Spook? Imho best lvl 1 spell is Chromatic Orb, but I can imagine that in IA with insane savong throws at NPC, CO is useless, then only Magic Missile left for lvl 1.
Btw I like that kind of killing when u bomb monsters with Greater Malison, Entangle, Grease, Web etc. then throw in some Cloudkill or other nasty damage over time area spell.

Thanks Sikret.

This post has been edited by shadan: Jul 2 2007, 08:38 AM

[Sikret]

Chromatic Orb can still be a useful spell as it inflicts acid damage (at and after a certain level of experience) which can work against enemies whose resistance to acid is lower than their resistance to magic damage (Magic Missile inflicts magic damage).

Other good first level spells are "Shield" and definitely "Burning Hands".

[Shadan]

I still don't understand Spook.
Shield ok for fighter/mages.
Burning Hands why? As far as I read on this forum, many enemies have some kind of elemental resistances, and most popular resistance is fire. And if you are fighter/mage, you can do much more damage with weapons than 5D4. If you are caster mage, then you shouldn't stand in frontline, where BH must be used. Did I miss sthing?

[Raven]

OK, there is a reason about Flame Arrow and Skull Trap, but why is so good that Spook?

Spook carries a -1 save penalty per two levels of the caster to maximum -6 at 12th level. That's a huge penalty! It makes the spell massively more useful at higher levels than most of the other 1st and 2nd level spells.

If you want another example, think about Stoneskin. It would be unbalancing if mages could use their unwanted 5th level spell slots to take Stoneskin - you could end up having to hack your way through a dozen Stoneskin spells when fighting a high level mage . The spell is only not overpowered because there are other good spells contending 4th level slots.

Seriously there are loads of spells that would be unbalanced if they could be taken as higher slots. Don't get me wrong, I really do like the idea but IMO the balance just isn't right in 2nd edition.

[Sikret]

Ah, just forgot to mention Larloch's minor drain as another good 1st level spell (as it bypasses target's MR).

[(Ø=M)^42]

Is 1-4 damage and healing not affected by MR enough to make it a good spell? Maybe after you're done casting all buffs and debuffs that the fight requires and no other spells will affect enemies or party members, but wouldn't you do more damage going melee with a staff or something? (Still at range since you can attack from behind frontline fighters)

[Sikret]

Is 1-4 damage and healing not affected by MR enough to make it a good spell? Maybe after you're done casting all buffs and debuffs that the fight requires and no other spells will affect enemies or party members, but wouldn't you do more damage going melee with a staff or something? (Still at range since you can attack from behind frontline fighters)

The difference is that the spell doesn't require you to roll a "to hit" dice at least. I didn't say that it will do miracle, but it's not bad as a 1st level spell against some enemies.

EDIT: What a simultaneity, Baronius!

This post has been edited by Sikret: Jul 2 2007, 03:32 PM

[Baronius]

I think even 1-4 damage can be helpful. While Larloch's Minor Drain hits unerringly, I wouldn't say that about a staff, especially when facing an enemy with good AC and/or physical resistance.

[Sorry Sikret, we posted at the same time. Just remove my post if needed.]

This post has been edited by Baronius: Jul 2 2007, 03:29 PM

[Stu]

Is 1-4 damage and healing not affected by MR enough to make it a good spell?

Yes - if taking on a magic resistant spell caster (to disrupt casting before you manage to get out a few lower resistances). With a casting time of 1 it is also good for cast and attack type things with a F/M.

[Shadan]

OK, I checked spells mentioned here in the game. Seems my 2nd ed. knowledge is a bit rusty. Burning Hands D3+lvl (max. 20) - not bad if you can catch 2-3 enemies with it. That ST penalty at Spook is fine.
About Larloch: D4 dmg is irrelevant, but if I understand correctly what you wrote here, I can stop the game when I see one of my enemies started to cast, cast a Larloch on him with my mage. Since Larloch casting speed 1, it will distrupt his spell. Is it works? If yes, it is good spell. Even better than Magic Missile or Chromatic Orb what I use, since CO need an attack roll and Magic Missile is stopped by Shield or magic resistance.

[Sikret]

since CO need an attack roll

I don't think that Chromatic Orb needs an attack roll, does it?

[Stu]

I don't think that Chromatic Orb needs an attack roll, does it?

Nope, although a saving throw to negate the damage and the effect is given (hence it can fail, especially against tougher enemies)

D4 dmg is irrelevant, but if I understand correctly what you wrote here, I can stop the game when I see one of my enemies started to cast, cast a Larloch on him with my mage. Since Larloch casting speed 1, it will distrupt his spell. Is it works? If yes, it is good spell. Even better than Magic Missile or Chromatic Orb what I use, since CO need an attack roll and Magic Missile is stopped by Shield or magic resistance.

Yes - but I wouldn't get a mage to cast it - they should be casting something like lower resistance (so that you can cast decent spell later in the fight) or buffing etc. A fighter mage would be better suited to it because they could make better use of the rest of the round (ie making decent attacks) whereas a mage cannot. Also your F/M may get some esoteric benefit out of the extra HP while your mage would not (you should never allow your mage to be hit)

Better than Magic missile - probably not. As soon as you bring the enemies MR down below around 70% your missiles will be very likely to hit and they're going to cause a bit more damage than Larlocks minor drain. Having said LMD definitely has its uses.

[Shadan]

I don't think that Chromatic Orb needs an attack roll, does it?

Nope, although a saving throw to negate the damage and the effect is given (hence it can fail, especially against tougher enemies)

In PnP version, CO was a spell from Wizard Handbook, and it needs an attack roll, however you get +3 THACO with it. I was not sure if this was implemented in BG or not. Seems not. But that ST makes it useless spell against hard enemies. I used to use against weaker-medium ones who are near to my mages or who moves toward they.