A new 8th level spell Options

[Sikret]

Hi all,

Our tests proved that Simulacrum spell is almost as cheesy as PI and must be replaced with a new spell. Of course, it's not as bad as Project Image, but it's still too cheesy. You can use items (Rod of Resurrection, scrolls, etc...) in the clone's quick slots without consuming the items' charges. Hence, for example, you can have infinite healing with the rod.

So, please give us your votes and comments about what kind of new spell you prefer to see.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Sikret: Aug 13 2007, 07:59 AM

[Shaitan]

I voted for a gated in creature, as I think it'll fit very well into the magespellbook, I don't think a new conjured creature vulnerable to deathspells is needed.

[aVENGER]

How about Mind Blank? It's an 8th level Wizard spell in PnP, here's the PHB entry:

Mind Blank

(Abjuration)
Range: 30 yds.
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 day
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: 1 creature
Saving Throw: None

When the very powerful mind blank spell is cast, the creature is totally protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This protects against augury, charm, command, confusion, divination, empathy (all forms), ESP, fear, feeblemind, mass suggestion, phantasmal killer, possession, rulership, soul trapping, suggestion, and telepathy. Cloaking protection also extends to the prevention of discovery or information gathering by crystal balls or other scrying devices, clairaudience, clairvoyance, communing, contacting other planes, or wish-related methods (wish or limited wish). Of course, exceedingly powerful deities can penetrate the spell's barrier.

[lroumen]

There are plenty of summon and gating spells I think. You already have Summon Fiend at level 8 and he performs quite well.

I voted for the improved Tensers Transformation because I welcome an additional incentive to experiment with melee-oriented mages. They have nice weapons available but often don't see melee range because Tenser's disables spellcasting so you cannot rebuff yourself. In hindsight, maybe it's better to change the original Tenser's Transformation into the one suggested (lower duration, allow spellcasting).

I can think of some other suggestions.
- A high level cold damage area of effect spell (as opposed to all the fire spells and there is already a nice chain lightning skill... Chain Frost?)
- An upgraded Greater Malison spell, no save, only affects 1 targeted creature, all saves by that creature incur a penalty of -4 (would allow proper usage of all those low level spells which have negative saves, i.e. those that can be completely negated by a successful save). Duration quite short though... 5-10 rounds?
- Multi purpose spell which lowers armor, thac0 and damage by 3 on a singular creature (cripples non-caster opponents somewhat).

[coaster]

I like the Mind Blank idea, which also has the advantage of being available in Icewind Dale - so is already represented in an IE game.

Also like the "upgraded Malison" spell idea.

Less keen on summons, they would certainly have to be gated, but even so, it's pretty easy for anything summoned to get chunked in a matter of a few seconds in IA.

[Sikret]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

@Iroumen:

Chain Frost was a nice idea. I will consider it as an option.

As for G Malison, Even the ordinary Greater Malison deosn't require the target to roll a saving throw and it does eveything you mentioned. So, I don't see in what respect your suggested spell is an "Improved" version of GMalison. The 4th level G Malison doesn't bypass MR though; so, If you want an improved version, you should probably suggest a version which bypasses MR.


As for Mind Blank, it's not suitable for IA. Apart from the absurdly long duration, most of the immunties the spell grants are easily available via lower level spells such as Chaotic Commands or SI. Most of them can be even gained by drinking a potion of Clarity! And if you suggest that I make the spell's effects undispellable, then it will turn to be overpowered considering its long duration. Of course, the duration can be shortened, but in general, I'm looking for an offensive spell not a defensive one.

[thetruth]

I believe an improved version of TT is the best option.

It will help very much the pure Arcane spell casters and will be a very useful spell for IA.

[Raven]

@Iroumen:

Chain Frost was a nice idea. I will consider it as an option.

Yes I like the idea of a spell dealing cold damage is a good idea (or acid but probably this would become overpowered too easily since many creatures in IA are weaker against acid).

But any direct-damage dealing spell must contend with ABHW. There would have to be a good reason to pick the new spell (e.g. ignores MR, secondary slowing/freezing effect).

[Raven]

I believe an improved version of TT is the best option.

It will help very much the pure Arcane spell casters and will be a very useful spell for IA.

But isn't there a danger that an Improved TT which allows spell casting/increases #attacks etc. could make F/M type characters even more powerful?

[Stu]

If it sets the THAC0/AC etc of the mage to that of a similar level fighter, then casting it could potentially make F/M types weaker in terms of their fighting ability (If they are higher in level in the fighter class, that is).

This post has been edited by Stu: Aug 13 2007, 11:09 AM

[lroumen]

As for G Malison, Even the ordinary Greater Malison deosn't require the target to roll a saving throw and it does eveything you mentioned. So, I don't see in what respect your suggested spell is an "Improved" version of GMalison. The 4th level G Malison doesn't bypass MR though; so, If you want an improved version, you should probably suggest a version which bypasses MR.

Yes, I was mistaken. I thought Greater Malison only lowered saves by 2, but it's indeed 4. I guess that suggestion can go to the bin unless it's a save penalty of 8 and bypasses MR, but that would maybe be too harsh for IA. I'll stick to my suggestion for a Cold spell though

[Arkain]

Mhm... the improved TT seems to be quite nice. But my vote would be for a new (area effect) spell which deals acid damage. Or cold - although you could use Cone of Cold for that matter.

[thetruth]

I believe an improved version of TT is the best option.

It will help very much the pure Arcane spell casters and will be a very useful spell for IA.

But isn't there a danger that an Improved TT which allows spell casting/increases #attacks etc. could make F/M type characters even more powerful?

IIRC (don't have access to the game right now), it is as Stu said for the THACO. It will set it according to the Mage level, so probably it will become worse.

For sure it will not increase the ApR of a F/M, but probably he will get a bonus to HPs and AC (though these bonuses are not so great for a F/M anyway).

IMO the Simulacrum spell is more useful for a F/M than an improved version of TT, so it's not a problem of making F/Ms more powerful.

[lroumen]

There are very few cold and acid sources fro the mage. It's a toss-up which one would suit IA best. These are the ones currently in the game.

Cold
- Chill Touch. Only for very low levels.
- Cone of Cold. Can hurt your party and has a very short cone range, (1d4+1) damage per level. (Very tough to aim and use without hurting the party)
- Ice Storm. Area damage, 2d8 each round for only 4 rounds.

Acid
- Melf's Acid Arrow. 2d4 damage for every 3 levels of the caster (extra damage applied in the following round(s))
- Death Fog. Area damage, 8 damage per round for 1 turn

Poison Damage
- Cloudkill. Area damage, 1d10 damage each round for 1 turn

[Arkain]

IIRC Chromatic Orb deals acid damage as well.

[Raven]

I believe an improved version of TT is the best option.

It will help very much the pure Arcane spell casters and will be a very useful spell for IA.

But isn't there a danger that an Improved TT which allows spell casting/increases #attacks etc. could make F/M type characters even more powerful?

IIRC (don't have access to the game right now), it is as Stu said for the THACO. It will set it according to the Mage level, so probably it will become worse.

Well there is also a +2 to hit and damage bonus applied after the THAC0 change, which is why a F/M still benefits from TT at higher levels (and this benefit would be great if you could continue to renew your PfMW while it was active).

But I agree that the loss of Simulacrum hurts F/M more than the addition of improved TT would help them.

[Exor]

Shatter Resistance [Fire or Cold or Acid or Lightning]
Transmutation

The targets resistance of the chosen type is reduced by half.
If the creature is immune or absorband to the chosen type nothing happens.

This spell dispells protection from (lightning,fire,...)
--

Divine Weakness
Divination

After targeting a creature the following information is known to the casters.
-Lowest physical resistance of the target.
-Lowest elemental resistance of the target.
-Magic resistance of the target.
-Spell levels the target is immune to.

--

Agannzars Freezer

Like Aganzars scorcher but more and cold damage... and blue^^.

[Roy]

I like the ideas on the lowering resistences and the acid and cold attacks.

The summoning spell will be excellent if it will upgrade with the levels of the caster.
Like new undead or golems or some type of a new IA monster.

A new idea is a control golem spell.

Maybe instead of one spell Sikret can add a lot more spells.That will make pure class mage or sorcerer a lot
more fun.

[rbeverjr]

I would like to try out a melee-oriented mage; so, I vote for improved Tenser's. (That is unless you will allow us to gate in an ice golem ) Please provide a weapon for the mages that will enable them to be very effective in combat. You may have already done so - I haven't paid that close attention as I never wanted my mages in melee before. Perhaps one of those improved staves will work. I'm sure that I'll quickly run out of the touch spells that are supposed to be effective; so, I want to carry a big stick too.

PS I'd love it if Sikret would apply his skills to NWN2. That game is even easier than BG2 was to those who have never played it. And the eye candy in NWN2 is fabulous compared to BG2. It's almost like an interactive movie.

[luan]

I really like Exor's idea for lowering certain elemental resistances.