Watcher's Keep Options

[rbeverjr]

Color me impressed. A lot of XP and GP here if you are up to the task of taking it! Some good fights and varied combats.

[luan]

I had great fun in Watcher's Keep, but as with the rest of the game, there is a jarring contrast between improved and non-improved encounters. But hey, that's what iterations of IA releases are for!

In my opinion, I'd like to see a heavy difficulty boost for the early WK floors as the risk/reward ratio is too light. Sikret's later WK encounters are spectacular however, and earning their guarded horde is truly an epic experience. Unfortunately, the untouched game versions feel like treasure box freebies. Even Improved Demogorgon got ran over in 20 seconds flat whereas the Dragon directly before made me fight tooth and nail!

Offtopic: Are there any mods that continue an exponential XP table past 20? It seems that after X levels, the XP requirement to next level normalizes to ~250k... allowing me to gain levels like every 20 minutes.
I'd like to continue an SOA rate of level growth if possible.

[rbeverjr]

In my opinion, I'd like to see a heavy difficulty boost for the early WK floors as the risk/reward ratio is too light. Sikret's later WK encounters are spectacular however, and earning their guarded horde is truly an epic experience.

As always, difficulty is linked to a number of factors. Player skill, XP, and equipment are 3 factors. I had difficulty with Sikret's new encounter on level 1. I'm now around L30, and am moving right along. If I was going to make changes in Watcher's Keep difficulty, I would say that the difficulty increases with each level. I suppose that may be true now. At least the last level is clearly more challenging than the levels before. I'd be slaughtered if I wasn't well equipped at level 5! If it was judged absolutely necessary to toughen the beginning levels (I'm not sure there is a need), then the challenge still should increase as you get deeper into the keep - in my opinion. At the beginning levels, you do get fat loot, but the only thing that I particularly wanted I could buy from the Helmites or take from a tough chromatic demon or other tough Sikret monster. Sikret protects the nice treasure, and that's the way it should be. At any rate, I'm enjoying the upgrade of WK.

Don't you get more XP for not killing demogorgon - or did that change in the improved demogorgon? I suppose RP-wise, it would be most appropriate to follow the avatar's instructions, but I may have to do a save game to try the battle myself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main benefit in BG2 epic levels are just more HLA's right? If you want to limit XP, check out Zyraen’s Miscellaneous Mod and Ding0 Experience Fixer.

[Sikret]

I suppose RP-wise, it would be most appropriate to follow the avatar's instructions

This is exactly why I have reservations to improve Demogorgon and didn't actually improve him in the current version of the mod. I thought it's a waste of modding time, because when I play myself, I always seal the prison from outside as the avatar instructs.

[leonidas]

I think most people like to fight the baboon-headed bastard.

Unfortunately, compared to almost every improved anvil encounter, he is not quite the challenge he once posed.

He's numero uno around the planes of the abyss, along with orcus and the other guy. So roleplaying-wise, he should be tougher than any other daemon in the game.

[thetruth]

In my opinion, I'd like to see a heavy difficulty boost for the early WK floors as the risk/reward ratio is too light. Sikret's later WK encounters are spectacular however, and earning their guarded horde is truly an epic experience.

If I was going to make changes in Watcher's Keep difficulty, I would say that the difficulty increases with each level. I suppose that may be true now. At least the last level is clearly more challenging than the levels before. I'd be slaughtered if I wasn't well equipped at level 5! If it was judged absolutely necessary to toughen the beginning levels (I'm not sure there is a need), then the challenge still should increase as you get deeper into the keep - in my opinion.

I agree. The difficulty should increase with each level.

Also although I agree generally with luan that many battles need a difficulty boost (wait for the next versions - we have only one Sikret ) , in this case it's more realistic that the first level is easier than the 2nd etc.

And also this is true for other places as well. For example in ToB, not all the enemies should have 20+ levels just because our parties are of high level.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main benefit in BG2 epic levels are just more HLA's right?

Yes unless if you install unnerfed tables for THACO, spells etc. from EoU.

This is exactly why I have reservations to improve Demogorgon and didn't actually improve him in the current version of the mod. I thought it's a waste of modding time, because when I play myself, I always seal the prison from outside as the avatar instructs.

Yes but what about the rest of us who want to kill him ?

(and it does make sense for a good aligned character RP-wise)

[rbeverjr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main benefit in BG2 epic levels are just more HLA's right?

Yes unless if you install unnerfed tables for THACO, spells etc. from EoU.

Eh. I think I installed something like that as Sikret advises in his installation notes. I never played with that component before. I suppose I need to read to see exactly what it does.

[Arkain]

Well, it's mostly about how one's THAC0 will not stop at a fixed point for certain classes, going all the way down to 0, if possible. IIRC there even is one version of this fix which allows it to get as low as -10 ("as in PnP"). The same is true with the spells/day one gets etc.. Basically it makes it more like it is in PnP AD&D and less like it is (nerfed, that is) in BG2 as the guys behind it changed these things for some reason. Balance?

This post has been edited by Arkain: May 22 2007, 03:46 PM

[luan]

If you want to limit XP, check out Zyraen’s Miscellaneous Mod and Ding0 Experience Fixer.

Thank you, the latter looks great! It was always those fed-ex quests worth 20k experience that bugged me. Whereas I'd only get ~500xp in BG1.

I had difficulty with Sikret's new encounter on level 1. I'm now around L30, and am moving right along.

This was an optional encounter so it's possible to bypass if your party isn't sufficiently powerful. I think there should be a mandatory road block before you can dive deeper into WK. Greatly improved statues perhaps?

Don't you get more XP for not killing demogorgon - or did that change in the improved demogorgon? I suppose RP-wise, it would be most appropriate to follow the avatar's instructions, but I may have to do a save game to try the battle myself.

This used to be a tremendous battle.. back in the tactics/ascension days... not anymore. Sikret has spoiled us!

[rbeverjr]

Glad I could help Luan. For myself, I've decided that I'm not going to do anything to make the game harder (like XP limiters) until I can complete the game with less than 10 reloads.

So far, I think my 3 hardest battles have been Suni (MS?)(initial ambushers of low levels, lowly equipped, and in my case initially without all my spells memorized due to SK alterations...), the Yuan-ti in the courtyard, Tor-Gal, and the slaver ship in the slums. (I tried to avoid Sikret's improvements at low level as much as I could.) I bet these battles were the hardest due to my lack of experience with Improved Anvil, but also due to the fact that these challenges are really tough when you have relatively few options (low levels compared to high levels). Like in the half game I played of IA 3, I do much better once I have XP and equipment. So, I'm trying to perfect my game before IA 5 shows me up once again as a player in need of improvement.

[Shaitan]

Well, it's mostly about how one's THAC0 will not stop at a fixed point for certain classes, going all the way down to 0, if possible. IIRC there even is one version of this fix which allows it to get as low as -10 ("as in PnP"). The same is true with the spells/day one gets etc.. Basically it makes it more like it is in PnP AD&D and less like it is (nerfed, that is) in BG2 as the guys behind it changed these things for some reason. Balance? tongue.gif

Yes! found in G3tweaks and introduced by this guy

[Sikret]

Glad I could help Luan. For myself, I've decided that I'm not going to do anything to make the game harder (like XP limiters) until I can complete the game with less than 10 reloads.

I also recommend not to install such mods (i.e. XP limiters). Otherwise, at later stages of the game when you face difficult battles you will not be high level enough and may start to complain about the difficulty.

[Sikret]

Well, it's mostly about how one's THAC0 will not stop at a fixed point for certain classes, going all the way down to 0, if possible. IIRC there even is one version of this fix which allows it to get as low as -10 ("as in PnP"). The same is true with the spells/day one gets etc.. Basically it makes it more like it is in PnP AD&D and less like it is (nerfed, that is) in BG2 as the guys behind it changed these things for some reason. Balance? tongue.gif

Yes! found in G3tweaks and introduced by this guy

Un-nerfed THAC0 table, Saving Throws, Spell Progression tables are from Blucher and available in Ease-of-Use . I don't know if the version you find in G3Tweaks is identical with the one you find in Ease-of-Use or not. The one used in Ease-of_Use is what I have based my work on. So, if they are completely identical, you can use any of them; but if they are different, then Ease-of_Use is recommended.

[Sikret]

I added a new feature to Watcher's Keep (in IA v4.3 which is not released yet at the time I'm sending this post).

In order to proceed to the 4th level of WK, you will need to have a new Sigil/Wardstone in addition to those you need in the original game (i.e. Scepter of Radiance and Vigil Stone). Guess whether the new wardstone is unguarded or not.

EDIT: Actually, there is even no need to a new wardstone. I can give one of the ingredients of the scepter to the new guardian. I have also written some interesting dialogeu for this new guardian. I hope you will like it.

This post has been edited by Sikret: May 29 2007, 03:51 PM