Random Questions, post them here! Options

[Vardaman]

Do we have a thread to post questions that don't really belong anywhere else?

Why can't I find the Ring of Holiness? Do I have to import a game from BG1?

For all of the weapons that grant an extra APR, the weapon in the main hand is always the one that takes the extra attack, right?

Does Sikret's item randomizer keep everything that used to be in SOA in SOA or does some stuff get dumped to TOB only areas?

[rbeverjr]

Do we have a thread to post questions that don't really belong anywhere else?

Why can't I find the Ring of Holiness? Do I have to import a game from BG1?
Ring of Holiness (RING22)

Location(s)
Temple District - Possible reward for intercepting the thief who stole the Dawn Ring and returning it to the Temple of Lathander

For all of the weapons that grant an extra APR, the weapon in the main hand is always the one that takes the extra attack, right?

right

Does Sikret's item randomizer keep everything that used to be in SOA in SOA or does some stuff get dumped to TOB only areas?

I don't know, but I hope that SoA items remain in SoA. That seemed to be the case in the one game that I've played.

[angiras]

Yes the SoA items remain in the areas accessible prior to actually starting the ToB campaign....however, that includes WK. So the item you are seeking may very well lie with the seal bosses, hehe.

Not sure if Demogorgon is included in the randomization scheme. I hope not, because if you decided to skip him and lock him up instead of fighting him, then you would lose those items forever.

[Vardaman]

Do we have a thread to post questions that don't really belong anywhere else?

Why can't I find the Ring of Holiness? Do I have to import a game from BG1?
Ring of Holiness (RING22)

Location(s)
Temple District - Possible reward for intercepting the thief who stole the Dawn Ring and returning it to the Temple of Lathander

Hmm, my main character was a cleric and didn't even get the ring. Is there a time limit? I know I accepted the quest early in the game but didn't complete it until I was a higher level.

Yes the SoA items remain in the areas accessible prior to actually starting the ToB campaign....however, that includes WK. So the item you are seeking may very well lie with the seal bosses, hehe.

That's kind of what I was expecting.

[Marceror]

Not sure if Demogorgon is included in the randomization scheme. I hope not, because if you decided to skip him and lock him up instead of fighting him, then you would lose those items forever.

Well, this is true, except, of course, for the small area by Demogorgon's door that allows you to return even after you've sealed him in!

Wait, what, I'm talking crazy now! Just ignore what I said.

[thetruth]

Why can't I find the Ring of Holiness? Do I have to import a game from BG1?

IIRC, if you are a priest of Helm (only) you get to choose between 3 items as a reward for completing the Illithium quest. One of them is the ring of Holiness.


And Demogorgon doesn't drop any items since you don't actually kill him.

[Constantine]

I'm not really sure where to post this, but i was wondering if it would be possible to divide the mod into 2 separate components, 1 with the various improvements and upgrades to the game, the second with all the nerfs and item removals. Maybe have the item randomization in a 3rd component, although that isn't as big a deal. The reason for this is that i like what the mod adds, but what it takes away i find quite annoying. For me, a big part of playing BGII is the familiarity, and although additions don't seem to disrupt this at all, suddenly having my favorite items either removed or nerfed because they were deemed too powerful (probably the reason i liked them in the first place) is not good. I know this is probably all in the attempt to make the game more challenging, but i'd rather just give the enemies more power (or just turn the difficulty slider up) than apply handicaps to myself, because then the familiar feeling is still intact

[Arkain]

http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showtopic=2862
http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?showtopic=1950

[Constantine]

Ah, I see that I am not the first person with these sentiments. Its a shame that it is impossible to split them. I suppose I probably wouldn't have kept this mod due to incompatibilities with some of my other mods anyways. I guess I'll just try Tactics or some other substitute instead.

[nataben1314]

I noticed that an item (eternal melody bard armor) has "wearer's aura is cleansed" as one of its abilities. What does that mean?

[Sikret]

I noticed that an item (eternal melody bard armor) has "wearer's aura is cleansed" as one of its abilities. What does that mean?

It means the wearer can cast spells without the usual pause between them. It's a permanent "Improved Alacrity". The ability is very powerful but the armor is only usable by Bards. Also, in IA v4.3, "Use Any Item" ability will not help M/Ts C/Ts and F/M/Ts to wear it. It's exclusively for bards.

[lroumen]

Oh so that's what it does. That makes bards pretty good spellslingers then. Pity they are just low level ones, but of course that makes it balanced. Maybe I ought to try our Haer'Dalis.

[(Ø=M)^42]

It means the wearer can cast spells without the usual pause between them. It's a permanent "Improved Alacrity". The ability is very powerful but the armor is only usable by Bards. Also, in IA v4.3, "Use Any Item" ability will not help M/Ts C/Ts and F/M/Ts to wear it. It's exclusively for bards.

That's a very interesting item. Can't wait for 4.3 so I can finally play this game

I do see why you nerf UAI, but from what I've read, thieves are mostly weaklings brought along just for the traps and saving spell slots for something else than Knock. Do you feel that a single class thief is pretty much as good for a party as most/all other classes? If not, does this bother you?

[nataben1314]

I do see why you nerf UAI, but from what I've read, thieves are mostly weaklings brought along just for the traps and saving spell slots for something else than Knock. Do you feel that a single class thief is pretty much as good for a party as most/all other classes? If not, does this bother you?

Of course I can't speak for Sikret, but my guess is that the changes to UAI are not intended to reflect overpoweredness of singleclass thiefs (a class which is one of the weakest in IA I believe), but thief multiclasses. Imagine, if you will, a F/M/T or M/T with that bard armor. It's a decent armor in to begin with without the alacrity part, and stack on top of that permanent improved alacrity! As part of a four person party, and with the XP cap removed as the mod documentation recommends, you would be absolutely insanely powerful. Toss on the ring of power to improve casting speed, and you could go absolutely nuts with spells on top of being already superpowered!

Ideally (IMO), UAI would remain universal for pureclass thiefs and have some restrictions for those multiclasses, though I don't know if this is feasible from a coding perspective and it also seems rather difficult to justify from a RP perspective. So I think Sikret's solution is best. It's not like those superpowered classes need to become even more powerful anyways.

[Ice]

It means the wearer can cast spells without the usual pause between them. It's a permanent "Improved Alacrity". The ability is very powerful but the armor is only usable by Bards. Also, in IA v4.3, "Use Any Item" ability will not help M/Ts C/Ts and F/M/Ts to wear it. It's exclusively for bards.

That's a very interesting item. Can't wait for 4.3 so I can finally play this game

I do see why you nerf UAI, but from what I've read, thieves are mostly weaklings brought along just for the traps and saving spell slots for something else than Knock. Do you feel that a single class thief is pretty much as good for a party as most/all other classes? If not, does this bother you?

I agree, the only way to exploit that armor would be playing a triple class F/M/T, which has a painstakingly slow advancement anyway. I think it would be better not to restrict UAI, after all Use Any Item should allow a thief to use *any* item...

This post has been edited by Ice: Jul 18 2007, 07:05 PM

[(Ø=M)^42]

Of course I understand that a singleclass thief gains nothing from permanent improved alacrity and that certain items were not meant for clerics (cleric/thief UAI), fighters or mages. My question regarding the value of a thief was meant specifically for single classed thieves. You surely know there are other powerful items, and more changes to the class than just UAI. No stealing, plenty of see stealth or immunity to backstab on powerful monsters etc.

I can't really get it down to one easy sentence which covers it all, but something like "is thief worth a spot in the group for mostly pick lock/disarm trap while reducing xp for others or taking a spot from a better kit?" It would be nice to see other people's thoughts and views, as I tend to use Imoen, possibly Jan, as only thief, and never even used UAI. I'm inexperienced in good use of thieves, but I do know of the "exploits" like using SotM and backstabbing for ever.

[nataben1314]

I don't think you can actually use SoTM to backstab. Although it is a staff which is traditionally a backstab weapon, it is not a staff normally available to thiefs pre-UAI, so it is not considered a "thief weapon" and thus cannot be used to backstab. I could be wrong though. AFAIK the main infinite backstab trick is Mislead + SI: Divination + SI: Abjuration (of course you couldn't do this in IA because you can only use one spell immunity at a time.

[lroumen]

Except for some logical options like potions, wands, minor spells and armor usage, you probably won't find many singleclass thieves going that far outside the thief epos when items are concerned. Weapons may provide bonuses, but they're better suited in a warrior's hands, plus you won't have the proficiency for them. Armors may seem great, but they disable thieving skills and you will just pick leather again and use some illusion spells or potions to buff yourself (mirror image or something alike).

I think the main bonus for melee oriented single class thieves would be the usage of Tenser Transformation, but where would you find that many scrolls? Mislead for backstabbing yes, Tensers... no. The Eternal Melody chain may look interesting for single class thieves who want to use spells, but you will need many scrolls and you can only keep up a small selection of spells (3 quickslots) unless you intend to swap a lot of scrolls.
I think Use Any Item doesn't necessarily have to be nerfed for single class thieves... that is, unless I have been using my single class thieves in a completely wrong way the last few years.





All thief kits lend to different play styles. And here are my generic tactics. Maybe someone can see where I go wrong then.

A swashbuckler mainly befits 2-handed weapons, some buffing magic scroll usage, AC lowering gear/potions and some strength potions. An increased attack speed helps, but I don't always choose to use it since mages can buff you as well.

An assassin mainly befits a backstabbing weapon, mislead scrolls (for that nice longlasting invisibility), single weapon fighting, Tuigan shortbow or light crossbow of speed and use envenom weapon for either melee or ranged. Increased attack speed for melee is essential as well as strength or thac0 reducing potions such as potions of power / heroism / something-giant-strength.
Sometimes I go for sword and shield style too and use darts or throwing dagger (venomous or not) as ranged ability using the cloak of the star (nice with envenom weapon).

A bountyhunter goes insane with trap setting and ranged attacks, casting buff scrolls whilst lowering enemy resistances, saves and combat abilities with scrolls that allow such things (greater malison, ray of enfeeblement, enfeeblement, things like that).

BTW... I always max out my detect illusions because it can sometimes help in a lot of situations. Besides these generic things, I can come up with little tactics for a single class thief that would make him overpowered. Now when you go multi or dualclass.... yes, then you can whip up a lot of cheesy tactics.

[nataben1314]

in IA, swashbucklers are extremely effective, though not generally for their thieving ability. At high levels they have a fighters THAC0 and permanent -24AC. For HLAs they should go UAI, then whirlwind attack and time traps.

[rbeverjr]

I don't think you can actually use SoTM to backstab.

You can't.