Suggestions for future versions of IA Options

[critto]

- Blackblood Club (component for Treefolk's Arm) (Gaal, Torgal, Priest of Cyric (slaver compound))

If randomised to Priest of Cyric, you'll get it only in ch6 when Treefolk's kinda obsolete already. Otherwise it is simple to do.

Reduce or remove gold/gem/XP gains from gem/coin golems summoned by elemental or greater elemental golems. To compensate, I'd bump the XP for each of the summoners, perhaps by 20k, and have them drop 1.5k gold and a diamond, star sapphire, and rogue stone (used in crafting recipes). While the other gems add flavor, they just contribute to inventory clogs.

This was discussed in the past. Somebody did propose a solution to decrease the rewards gradually from summoned golems. Of course, your approach is much simpler and probably more sensible overall.

@ Critto - how many people do you think are playing IA based on downloads? Also given your and sparrow's time constraints, do you have any sense of timing for additional content (e.g. druid stronghold) - 3 months or 12 months or more? Just curious.

Well, the download statistics are public knowledge: http://dragonshoard.blackwyrmlair.net/download.php I don't think that Baronius resets them when I ask him to re-upload a new release. So at best, 1k people are playing. Realistically, I think maybe 30-40? The majority of people who are active here and probably some "lurkers" / silent players. I haven't seen any meaningful activity discussing IA on any other large of the English-speaking community forums (and there are reasons for that beyond sheer popularity). I know that Chinese community has a decent IA following, but no idea about the numbers. Maybe Chaser or c4_angel could help out here with the numbers? I didn't study bg forums in other languages but I doubt I'll find much. It's a very niche mod for a 20 years old game. New gamers who came with the release of EEs are probably playing SCS and other mods.

The key problem with the druid stronghold is to come up with a coherent story, to be honest. We've been dancing around it for ages and while there are some solid ideas there's no finished comprehensive design document. My time is extremely limited so I these last few years I usually find some time occasionally that I divert from my other activities and spend it on IA. Small fixes, content additions and tweaks are obviously easier to accomplish, so I do them. They too, however, take more time each year since even in EE the engine is a mess of workarounds and gotchas one has to remember. For instance, it was pointed out a couple of days ago here about the opcode that allows/prevents usage of items based on char's alignment. Why on earth when it's a specific alignment, zero means it's allowed, 1 means no and vice-versa when it's a mask? You have to be constantly involved to remember things like that.

Anyhow, to answer your question, if there where a completed story and encounters that are thought out I'd probably be able to implement it in a short span of time.

@ rbeverjr I think its pretty remarkable that any development on IA is still being done. This has generally been a pretty quiet forum - only in the past few months (since release of 6.4) has there been a lot of chatter.

This is true. There are many things that could be accomplished but the technology is limited. I like the uniqueness of how IA approaches difficulty, but if someone want truly clever AI within the constraints of the game I'd recommend checking out SCS, it's engineering is superb and we cannot expect to surpass that.

[chaser]

Maybe Chaser or c4_angel could help out here with the numbers?

Chinese players generally discuss IA in the next two BBS's:

https://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=%...8&fr=search
https://trow.cc/board/showforum=8

The first BBS is more commonly used, and the theme is the BG game. Many game threads about IA can be found there. However, the language, the login and the verification are big problems for foreign players. We have also considered sending our previous posts to other websites for long-term preservation, but it is unlikely to translating them into English.
It takes time and effort to write technical posts and game reports about IA, and not many people do. Most of the time, our IA players are using some chat software (like Tencent QQ) to discuss the game, so it is not public. We have a chat group of 100-200 people, but most people there are not only playing IA but also playing other games, and the number of active IA players is only about a dozen.

[bulian]

If randomised to Priest of Cyric, you'll get it only in ch6 when Treefolk's kinda obsolete already. Otherwise it is simple to do.

I meant the priest with Captain Haegen in the slums area, not in the Guarded compound. I'm sure there are other reasonable places too.

[lroumen]

On the beamdog forums I know of only around 4 players including myself who still actively play it. There might be more but I am unsure. Here I pretty much only lurk for the updates and I am very happy about the support.

On most forums IA suffers from bad publicity from players who just didn't like some of the overhaul and that gets repeated by the oldies a lot. It also does not help that it is relatively incompatible with many other mods and that it is not included in mega mods like bws/eet (to my knowledge) while other tactical mods like scs are.

This limits traffic quite a bit.

[lroumen]

I would like changes in the mod to make it more accessible and more fair but with the druid stronghold on hold for so long (and in need of finishing) I am guessing that new ideas will get a lot of delay.

I am even tempted to make my own mod that changes some of the IA rules post install (I already added some of my own kits and spells)... But i also have no time and would rather play it instead.

[critto]

It is technically hard to make IA compatible with other mods. Many of the changes are done in the old fashion, by overwriting the resources inside the override folder. Compatibility assumes at the very least that all mods update the game files by patching rather than overwriting them. This alone is a huge issue to overcome. I tried it in the past. I've attempted to write software that makes binary diffs of IA's copies and original files and produces weidu-style patch sequences. But they come out incredibly human-unreadable which would further modding even harder. Plus, at the moment IA was supporting both ToB and EE installations. And original files in ToB and EE differ by themselves quite a lot. That'd added another degree of difficulty. It was more work to make it all function than I was willing to put in for a mod played by 50 people at best.

[lroumen]

Yes, I totally understand

[bulian]

While everyone appreciates a good story in an RPG, considering IA is a tactical mod, there is probably a fair bit of leeway in terms of the quality of story that the community would accept. More bluntly, a loosely cohesive story is probably good enough (as is the case with several plots already present in the mod).

@ lroumen - I'd be interested in the kits and changes you are making/have made. You should post them!

[lroumen]

Mostly I make lower end spells more viable at higher levels, or I add some druid only spells for 1-3 or I add some druid or thief kit for my protagonist. I have not figured out how to apply a kit to an npc or I would have done that already.

I'm thinking about adding some gear or upgrades somewhere but that becomes wieldly.

This post has been edited by lroumen: Mar 2 2019, 07:35 AM

[critto]

If you're interested and familiar with the tools (source version control software), I can publish IA to github. This way anybody would be able to clone a bleeding-edge copy, work on it, and propose modification requests to be merged into the mod. It's a fairly common practice. I've been meaning to do it long ago.

[critto]

While everyone appreciates a good story in an RPG, considering IA is a tactical mod, there is probably a fair bit of leeway in terms of the quality of story that the community would accept. More bluntly, a loosely cohesive story is probably good enough (as is the case with several plots already present in the mod).

You make a good point. I have to admit I've been kinda stuck on trying to make a good story considering how long people have been waiting for it. Otherwise it would feel like a let down. However, I did come up with some good ideas how everything could be evolved into a greater overarching plot that might finish somewhere in the end of ToB. I would have been willing even adjust the plots the other two strongholds (ranger and necro) for that purpose. So right now I'm trying to simplify current ideas and build something smaller.

[lroumen]

Github might be useful if you want help to finish some items or help with testing/reviewing additions but I am not sure how many relevant things a mini modder like me could add.

[critto]

Small things aren't that hard to add because they could be implemented in a fashion similar to what already exists in the mod. Plus, I can always consult and give advice.

[rbeverjr]

Critto, that was an appreciated response. I will still make suggestions as I have time and play, but I don't have a full understanding of how much time it takes to implement each one. I understand being busy and appreciate your willingness to work on this old game. I have many times expressed my appreciation for the modders and playtesters of this game and do so again! Thanks everyone!

[bulian]

I'm not so familiar with GitHub but think it could be a nice way to allow others to suggest/make changes and fix bugs directly. How many people would participate? Hard to say.

One of the benefits of IA not playing nicely with others is its quite easy to modify - one simply updates a file and drops it into the override folder.

[rbeverjr]

DnD has given fans a lot of fun in several countries for many years. It has had many playtesters and players to help develop it over time. I suggest that sticking to its game mechanics as closely as possible may be a good thing. Now, things have changed over time and almost always for the better. One of the things they got rid of from DnD2 was the sequencer type spells. I use them only once per battle because the enemies use them too (in SCS). In IA, there is a limit to once a day for chain-contingency, which is fine. In DnD 3 they made it so that haste would allow you to cast another spell in the round, which they quickly figured out was a bad idea and stopped it in version 3.5. So, no system is infallible, but they can be refined and improved.

There has been a lot of confusion about the Freedom of Action spell. Here are some answers from the Main35FAQV06302008. What is key to note is that Freedom of Action does NOT prevent haste rather only impediment to movement.

Does freedom of movement work against mimics and other adhesives?
Yes. Freedom of movement will allow a creature to escape from any type of adhesive or creature that uses some type of adhesive attack, such as the mimic. This is of course unless the entry specifically states that freedom of movement will not allow the creature to escape.

Does the freedom of movement spell protect a character from being stunned? The argument is that “stun” is a condition that hinders movement.
Freedom of movement is one of those tricky spells that has a lot of open-ended wording that might lead to confusion. The spell becomes much more manageable if you just look at it as something that ignores any physical impediment to movement or actions. If you assign this restriction, then it makes sense that freedom of movement works against solid fog, slow, and web; each of these spells puts something in the way of the creature that stops them from moving/acting, or specifically targets the creature’s physical movement.
With this interpretation, spells and effects such as hold person that apply a mental impediment to taking any action would not be bypassed by freedom of movement. These are mental effects, and freedom of movement only helps you bypass physical effects (such as solid fog) or effects that specifically impede just your movement, not spells that stop you from taking any action, as hold person does.
In the same vein, freedom of movement would not work on someone who had been turned to stone by a medusa’s gaze or by a flesh to stone spell.
To answer the original question, being stunned is one of those mental effects and would normally deny a creature the ability to act at all. Since it’s not specifically focused on just impeding movement, and it is a mental, not physical impediment, freedom of movement would not help a stunned creature to act or move normally.
This interpretation of freedom of movement can make it easier to adjudicate the effects of the spell, but it is also more restrictive. As always, it will ultimately be up to the Dungeon Master to make the best call as he sees fit for his campaign and play session.

Now, my suggestions about maximum weapon proficiency slots differs slightly from DnD 2. The weapon proficiency slot system was dumped in later DnD versions where barbarians appeared. If it was kept, I would like to think that my refinements would have been considered, as they are logical. You can devote yourself to a weapon or spells or (with less effectiveness) both.

[rbeverjr]

I like some or all of the PnP tweaks from aTweaks at Spellhold Studios. Where these tweaks have not already been incorporated into IA, I suggest checking them out for their suitability to use in IA. I like the variation and sometimes greater challenge that these tweaks allowed in my SCS games.

[c4_angel]

As a modder myself, I completely understand how difficult to accomplish a story mod (well, the druid stronghold may be treated as a mod itself) and I had never finished one, till now. We are all looking foward it and don't bother if it would be a bit flawed at the first time. IA have several versions itself, isn't it?

Using Github is more than a great idea, everyone can contribute to IA, you can also post unlimited pre-release on Git whenever you want, rather than "fixed locally". And the best of Git is: you need no longer save a bunch of backups on your local disk, Git saves all changes.
I will be the first forker.

Reduce or remove gold/gem/XP gains from gem/coin golems summoned by elemental or greater elemental golems. To compensate, I'd bump the XP for each of the summoners, perhaps by 20k, and have them drop 1.5k gold and a diamond, star sapphire, and rogue stone (used in crafting recipes). While the other gems add flavor, they just contribute to inventory clogs.

To be honest, I am against the first half. To kill more even all of those summoned monsters (not only golems) is a high risky with high incomes tactic. Players can choose do it or not based on the power of the team. The more choices, to some extent, increases the Gameplay to a game or a mod.

I suggest placing those create-randomised-items blocks to a higher priority in the script of monsters. Those blocks are often with low priority, which may cause them never been triggered, if the monsters have been killed too quickly (it's possible without any cheat). There is a workaround of it: to put those blocks in area scripts.

Add on: Use PartySlot[1-6] replace Player[1-6] in those force-positioning cutscenes. Player[1-6] decided by the join order of team members, difficult but still possible to change. But PartySlot[1-6] is the order of the portraits, can be reordered any time. Different class placed in different point could make a great difference in the tough battles, in my mind, the formation should been left for the player to decide rather than somehow unexpectable. Those locally changes I made are: the Twisted Runes (shangalr.bcs), the final battle of SoA (cut85b.bcs) and the Demogorgon battle (s!cutdmi.bcs).

This post has been edited by c4_angel: Mar 16 2019, 09:47 PM

[bulian]

A few observations/questions based on my current game:

1) Avenger's can use daggers but cannot put proficiency points into daggers. Suggest allowing them to become proficient in daggers
2) Its really nice that Imoen/Neera join at level 1 and can pick spells. Let's do the same for non-dual class PCs (all but Anomen/Nalia/Jan/Aerie) so that player can select weapon proficiencies. A side effect would be that NPCs hit points are all maximized in this way.
3) Nalia does not appear to be able to use Githzerai Blade but fighter/mage types can - bug or intended for balance purposes?
4) Druids/Avengers cannot use the scimitar Yamato +4 - intended?
5) global dispel during the second drow ambush doesn't affect buffed summons
6) shadow lover in lilarcor encounter can dispel free action protection and stun enemies at the same time
7) I'm not sure that vampires detect that druids under Shield of the Archon or Dorn are immune to level drain
8) I like the philosophy that NPCs should join the party at any time and be relevant, but the new high XP upon joining for NPCs should cap out in early Ch 6 at say 3.5 million XP instead of getting above 7 million XP. The mechanism allows perhaps undesired behavior by keeping a small party for most of the game and then expanding the party later for lots of "free" XP
9) The reward for the Ancient Secret of Suldanessalar quest does not justify the effort of the quest. Suggest upgrading Protector of the Woods ring from Shimmering Light quest with Swanmay Jewel, which will give +2 to saves and allows an additional Swanmay Queen to be summoned once per day (call it a Swanmay Prince or something).
10) I can't think of a logical reason why Dracolich fight is limited to Ch 5. Certainly its much more challenging. Suggest enabling the maze in Ch6/7 with reduced rewards (no quest XP, only crafting/randomized items) or more difficult encounter
11) Suggest enabling all of The Four encounters regardless of class and adding randomized or crafting items to those encounters while either modifying or eliminating the current items which are either unbalanced (Robe of Eloquence on Edwin, for example, Gloves of Spell Weaving) or not worth using (The Bard Ring, Sunlight Helm)
12) It appears the 10d10 blunt damage component of comet was removed. Not sure whether Stellar Gravestone still has it. Suggest adding the blunt damage back in.

This post has been edited by bulian: Mar 23 2019, 11:51 PM

[critto]

1) I'll amend that.
2) Maybe as an optional component.
3) I think the blade was originally intended for f/m multi-class. Giving it to pure mages seems a bit OP (extra free spells).
4) No, probably a bug.
5) I'll see how it's implemented.
6) probably something has changed in EE in that regard. I remember fixing a similar thing for level drain but I did a substantial rework of the mists' weapons (not sure if it was the only reason).
7) might be an AI bug, I'll check it
8) I'm not sure I'd really want to bother implementing the cap. If somebody wants to abuse the system this way, that's their choice.
9) And was is the current reward? The axe upgrade? I'm not sure about more Swanmay Queens, vagrants are powerful as it is.
10) Is there a substantial treasure to be gained?
11) this might be an interesting idea, I'll add it to the todo list.
12) probably a bug of EE. I'll check it out.