Fighter/Necro solo, please see topic guidelines Options

[Krell]

@ chaser - I didn't know that the Dragon's elemental and magical damage resistances are affected by the Nishruu's death, very useful info. Makes sense now, since in v5 I always killed the Nishruu first.

@ blastermaster - it seems your main issue comes from Unconsciousness, against which your character has no protection. You could tweak Chaotic Commands scrolls dropped by Skeleton Lords and other enemies to be usable by everyone and protect your character with those.

In all cases, I doubt the dragon can be defeated with elemental or magical damage by just one char. He has a lot of hit points and 75% resistances are still too much. But at least the Nishruu's death will leave him open to Hammer of Thor or Poseidon's wrath elemental attacks.

A Planetar is immune to fire, might be a good distraction vs the dragon for a couple of turns while PC kills the Elite Nishruu.

[blastermaster]

I don't see how I can kill him with magic all at once. This assumes he makes all of his saves, but...

9 Magic Missile @ 15 = 135
12 Acid Arrow @ 17 = 204
12 Lightning Bolt @ 17 = 204
4 Cone of Cold @ 35 = 140
7 Chain Lightning @ 18 = 126
10 Finger of Death @ 11 = 110
7 AD Horrid Wilting @ 40 = 280

Total: 1,200 damage

I need to do 1,440 to kill him since he has 360 HP and 75% resistance to all of these spells. Maybe if I draw him up to the stairs of his room and get some crazy lightning bolt reverberation? Also I'd probably end up using most of the Acid Arrows against the Noble Efreet so they would not be available.

Do you assume a Wish/RVE rest in the middle of this?

This post has been edited by blastermaster: May 29 2015, 09:35 AM

[Krell]

I don't see how I can kill him with magic all at once. This assumes he makes all of his saves, but...

9 Magic Missile @ 15 = 135
12 Acid Arrow @ 17 = 204
12 Lightning Bolt @ 17 = 204
4 Cone of Cold @ 35 = 140
7 Chain Lightning @ 18 = 126
10 Finger of Death @ 11 = 110
7 AD Horrid Wilting @ 40 = 280

Total: 1,200 damage

I need to do 1,440 to kill him since he has 360 HP and 75% resistance to all of these spells. Maybe if I draw him up to the stairs of his room and get some crazy lightning bolt reverberation? Also I'd probably end up using most of the Acid Arrows against the Noble Efreet so they would not be available.

Do you assume a Wish/RVE rest in the middle of this?

First of all, I'm not positive but the dragon may be immune to 1st and maybe 2nd level spells, check this.

Second, FoD or ADHW cannot be cast very fast unless you have a good RVE luck with multiple Mental Agilities.

Naturally, you can have all of the Acid arrows you want in the mid-fight, use the Limited Wish option to regain lost spells.

Prebuff (out of the Dragon's lair), rearranging your spellbook + casting multiple wishes to get rest can be done indefinitely and allows you to have even more offensive spells pecombat.

Don't forget you can have more than 12 spell slots in a single level, although they won't be shown in the spellbook. Use Dak'kon Zerth blade and the ring of Acuity.

Ice storms have some small initial damage, naturally you cannot wait for their full effect for 4 rounds, but at least they will still add some.

As for Wish/RVE in the middle of the fight, I guess it might work, but I really don't like strategies which depend on getting lucky with a spell.

[chaser]

Maybe there is something wrong with my expression,I mean:physical attack him first,when his HP drop to 150 or below,use magic to finish him…

[Krell]

Maybe there is something wrong with my expression,I mean:physical attack him first,when his HP drop to 150 or below,use magic to finish him…

If a solo character could start seriously harming the Ancient Dragon with physical damage alone, there would be no need of resorting to spells at all. Regeneration will wane, Armors of Faith will be Breached, Stoneskins and PFMW will be breached. The problem is the Wing Buffet + Red Dragon breath and Lower Fire Res + Red Dragon Breath combo, against which protection for a F/N is impossible. You may think that the Lower Fire Res + Red Dragon Breath can be avoided via equipping and unequipping fire-resistance gear, yet it's not so simple since the dragon first breathes fire (or unleashes Improved Fireball) and then if a character puts on fire-resistant gear, the dragon activates Lower Fire resistance. And several Lower Fire Resistances stacked will prevent a character from reaching decent fire-res values even with the ultimate fire-resistance gear at their disposal.

This post has been edited by Krell: May 29 2015, 10:40 AM

[chaser]

If a solo character could start seriously harming the Ancient Dragon with physical damage alone, there would be no need of resorting to spells at all. Regeneration will wane, Armors of Faith will be Breached, Stoneskins and PFMW will be breached. The problem is the Wing Buffet + Red Dragon breath and Lower Fire Res + Red Dragon Breath combo, against which protection for a F/N is impossible.

It is indeed a big problem.The only way I can think of is to use RVE regenation and regeneration oil(the blue one and the green one,maybe regeneration of the blue one can be stacked,didn't test yet) to recover your character between each dragon breath combo.I don't know if the recovery rate can catch up the damage rate,it is hard to estimate.Using fire resistance equipments or items will work for a moment,but can't last long.Anyway,I can only offer a general guideline,how to survive as long as possible and how to defeat ancient dragon ASAP depend on blastermaster's trial.

[blastermaster]

Maybe there is something wrong with my expression,I mean:physical attack him first,when his HP drop to 150 or below,use magic to finish him…

Ah, I didn't know that was your intent.

That seems possible, but Krell expresses my concern with it.

However, from 90 HP is when he begins to have the possibility of using his Heal. So it may make sense to try to get him down to 90 HP and then try to finish him with Magic since you can do that 90 damage much faster than with a weapon (where you are almost guaranteed to be so slow that he Heals).

Oil of Resurgence gets you 60 HP per bottle (6hp per round for 10 rounds). So if you drink one every single round after you've exhausted him of Firestorm and Improved Fireball, and he's only doing his Red Dragon Breath, that approximately lines up with the 185 damage I'd expect on average every 3 rounds from his fire breath. However you would be taking significant melee damage from his claws during this time because you cannot cast PFMW if you are using an oil every single round.

[chaser]

Indeed,you can only stack 1 or 2 potions of resurgence oil in the beginning.When the fight start,there is no time to drink them.How long does RVE single regeneration last?The Planetar can heal you 6 times,don't know if he could help.

[blastermaster]

RVE regeneration either lasts 10 rounds ("Regeneration on my Party") or 20 rounds ("Long Lasting Regeneration for Me Only"). So the first one is the equivalent of one oil of resurgence, while the long-lasting is equivalent to two of them (without wasting an action the second time).

I have managed to kill the followers, including the Nishruu, a few times. One of the key points is to NOT resist a Greater Malaison, which saves you from a second Doom, making your Thac0 insufficient to kill the Nishruu in reasonable time.

No one has mentioned, but the dragon has 7 castings of greater command, which are all problematic. Most of the time, I can equip +10 to my saves in rings and cloak in response, but you have to be quick on and off or else you get doomed again.

What really helps in this process is the Chain Contingency (50% health) popping up. This pulls up some spell protections for me, and the ancient dragon wastes a lot of time dispelling them.

[blastermaster]

Nishru can be dispatched by distracting the dragon offscreen with summons for him to kill. (Planetar doesn't last long, requires much more than just him). Must be under PFMW (not AI), or Nishruu will head for the summons too. 6 rounds or so, to kill the Nishru. Good time to refresh buffs if needed.

[blastermaster]

Indeed,you can only stack 1 or 2 potions of resurgence oil in the beginning.When the fight start,there is no time to drink them.How long does RVE single regeneration last?The Planetar can heal you 6 times,don't know if he could help.

Beginning is not problematic - Fire Resistance is still pretty good when putting on rings and equipment. But slowly, you make mistakes and the Ancient Dragon continues to Lower your resistance. In general, I drink an Oil of Resurgence at pretty much every free opportunity though.

I can pretty consistently kill the summons, including the Nishruu, and get the dragon to utilize his Cure Critical Wounds and Regeneration. Which means I think from that point he only has his Heal left. At this stage he has used up all of his Stoneskins, most of his PFMW and Greater Commands. What I really want is for his initial Lower Fire Resistances to begin to expire, since I now have so much less to deal with that I can take a Breath without putting on too much stuff and risking more Lower Fire Resistance castings. However they seem to have a very long duration.

I have a mid-battle save at this point to help me test this (hopefully final) portion of the battle. Just need a bunch of repetitions to figure out his tendencies and then work into the overall gameplan. But I am optimistic! At this stage I could almost certainly just drink 5 Barbarian Essence potions and let my Stoneskin expire, and this would heal me up after every breath and I'd eventually kill him I think. So it's just a matter of figuring out a way to do it while saving them.

This post has been edited by blastermaster: May 29 2015, 05:52 PM

[blastermaster]

Also, there are a couple of places in this area in which you're not able to be reached by wing buffet or red dragon breath. I am not sure if you can move yourself there, but you can be buffeted into one of those spots. I don't think you can even be hit by the dragon's melee in one of them. I am not sure if you can get there by moving your character, but I've been buffeted into at least two different ones so far.

[blastermaster]

Figured it out the end (probably the easiest part, in hindsight), put it all together, GOT HIM.

Total recap:

0) Oil of Resurgence in every round you're not doing anything else
1) go down stairs with Foreknowledge, cast Alacrity just beyond his sight, step forward
2) debuff dragon and noble efreet, cast spells on efreet to kill him, PFMW to protect from Nishru
3) Critical strike to quickly kill salamander. Use remaining alacrity to refresh Stoneskin and Breach to run dragon out of Stoneskin and his own Breach
4) Refresh Improved Haste if needed. Run around for a bit, alternating between nothing, your fire protection gear, and rings/cloaks of protection, depending on whether dragon throws spells, fire, or something else at you.
5) When dragon is out of Breaches, summon Noble Djinni and manually tell him to PFMW right after his initial spells trigger. Nishruu follows you, Djinni attacks dragon. Go well away from dragon and your djinn, cast PFMW when able. Cast Planetar and send him after dragon's direction. Refresh PFMW when needed, and Nishruu should be dead just as dragon kills the summons.
6) Summon Joolon, Berserker, Noble Spider, etc., to give yourself time to refresh health, stoneskins, etc. Go on the offensive (Jhor main-hand, Crom offhand). Unfortunately he had one PFMW left so I had to waste a round with a Breach scroll. When he is offscreen fighting Noble Spider, cast Improved Alacrity. Pro:Fire, Fireshield:Red, Protection from Elements. Get your fire resist way up there.
7) Potion of Power!!! for something like 2 better Thac0
8) Start hitting him, over and over. Refresh Stoneskin every 2 rounds or so. In between, another Fire protection if needed (potion, protection from energy should be left), but mostly using Critical Strike after you get him to Injured. Breath does very little at this point and he is only using Lower Fire Resistance every 5 or 6 rounds. But you're backed into a corner so his buffet doesn't make you get too far. Have auto-attack enabled so you swing the moment you regain consciousness.
9) He Heals. Was a bit delayed - with a well-timed Alacrity, I might have been able to cast him dead if I knew the precise moment to start it.
10) Keep attacking. Shrugging off fire breath every 3 rounds. Run out of Stoneskins, resort to PFMW/AI scrolls (actually frees you up more, lasts longer than Stoneskin). Critical Strike basically every other round, with a physical or fire defense in between.

I had 0 Critical Strikes left at the end, though my one Smite was available. Jhor probably had 20-30 damage left to do as well, which would have outpaced his regeneration. Crom may have been better in the main hand, especially with its huge electrical damage, but I totally forgot. I love Jhor though... nice to have damage still ticking in even if you're pausing to do something else, cast, etc. Improves morale :-)

[Krell]

Nice, I really thought you wouldn't be able to do it. Congrats. Still, you have 2 more tough battles to win, Yaga-shura and EDE.

BTW I am surprised that the Death of a Thousand Cuts does so much bleeding damage in your run. In v6 it's tweaked to allow save vs death at -4. And enemies almost always save. Especially enemies like the Ancient Dragon and the Elite Nishruu.

Actually the optimal weapon against the dragon (once the Nishruu's down) might well be Poseidon's Wrath halberd because of the great elemental damage that hits often enough. But without GWW attacks it's no good.

I will also try to find a more fair tactic vs the Ancient Dragon rather than spamming Greater Djinnis. The big problem in my run is his seven Greater Silence abilities and his double-damaging breath (I'm looking at 32d10 even with a save made). At least my character can use the Chaotic Command scrolls assembled so far and be immune to unconsciousness, if I time those well enough.

[chaser]

practice is the sole criterion for testing truth~It seems using oil of resurgence+PFMW or stoneskin+some fire resistance items every few rounds can keep your character saftey,I learned a lot.Good job,blastermaster!

Krell,you really should make your character immune to silence so that you can fight at the frontline…It is more funny and more fair IMO.

[blastermaster]

Looks like the dragon has a Death Save of 2. With the -4 penalty, he will save 15 times out of 20. 75% times 5 rounds in which it's rolled means 1.25 bleeds per Jhor hit. What was really key was that it was doing 2 damage, rather than the 1 it usually does (against Nishruu and others). I have no idea how rounding works but this was obviously helpful. So 2 damage times 1.25 equals an average of 2.5 bleeding damage per hit. I think the initial hit was around 9 damage, so we're talking a pretty massive bonus. I suspect Crom would have been more like 10 per hit in base damage. 10% chance of 85 damage (on average), reduced by 75%, results in 21 damage, 10% of the time. So 2.1 electrical damage per hit. So it's basically all the same I think.

Poseidon's Wrath is actually a bit worse. 30% chance of 30 damage is an average of 9 damage. Dragon has 75% magic damage resistance too, so basically ~2 damage per hit on this one as well. But less hits than a 1H weapon.

Chaser, there is a LOT of ring and cloak swapping too. If you forget to take off the Cloak of the Old Ones immediately after making a save, for example, it's over. You will be Doomed and by then your Thac0 will be in the positive numbers. You really need a Thac0 that can hit the dragon in those rounds in which you're refreshing buffs and don't have a critical strike active (Potion of Power and its measly Thac0 boost was actually very helpful in this regard).

[Krell]

practice is the sole criterion for testing truth~It seems using oil of resurgence+PFMW or stoneskin+some fire resistance items every few rounds can keep your character saftey,I learned a lot.Good job,blastermaster!

Krell,you really should make your character immune to silence so that you can fight at the frontline…It is more funny and more fair IMO.

If I make a 40/40/40 lvl F/M/T immune to silence, it would be the same as spamming Greater Djinnies, I suppose.

@ blastermaster - I see your point, I may as well upgrade Jhor myself, after all it only costs money late-game (in ToB there are enough +3 bastard swords).

Back to my own game. Now I know we follow the guidelines here, but I just defeated Firkraag fair and square several times (no unlimited Greater Djinnies or the likes) and wanted to share that in hopes that blastermaster can find a way to refine his own victory vs Firkraag. Here's how mine went:

Summon 4 Noble Salamanders, followed by a Noble Spider and Greater Djinni (for maximum lasting of the latter two). Cast Farsight on the spot where the dragon stands. Send only Djinni, spider and one Salamander to attack from different sides. Other summons to the entrance. Talk to Firkraag. Retreat fast with PC. Cast Remove Magic from out of the dragon's sight once he casts Improved Haste (he starts with Death spell on Salamander Noble), sending the second Salamander to the fight in the meantime. Continue Removing enemy PFMW, sending the rest of the Salamanders one by one after old ones are Death Spelled. Your F/N cannot remove enemy buffs that easy I suppose, but you can do ninja breaches with the help of refreshable Spell Triggers for instacasting to avoid Greater Dooming or other nasty stuff prematurely. All in all, the dragon should waste his first Heal spell and his contingencied Stoneskin + one more and be at Injured before PC should enter his field of vision permanently. My F/M/T hid under SI:Div and illusion buffs plus ProFire, ProEnergy, ProElements and Fireshield:Red, but that was because I have no way to refresh spell protections which Firkraag would strip with his Ruby Rays. For your F/N, Alacrity with enough Spell Turnings will take care of the dragon's ruby rays, then he's an easy prey. However, adding a potion of invisibility to the prebuff is still a good idea. Since the dragon is actually hard pressed, he doesn't have the luxury to start Lowering Fire Resistance, but he did doom my char twice. After that it's pure beating and refreshing PFMW, even with a base THAC0 of 10 (helm, gauntlets) with the help of Crom Faeyr PC can hit often enough. The dragon does activate two more Stoneskins after each subsequent wave of Skeleton Lords, but those can be easily Breached. I used Contingencies with my last 2 remaining Remove Magicks. Contingency on "character hit" also helped me keep PFMW up. Actually memorizing more Contingencies or even using Chain Contingency as last resort can help unleash several important spells in a blink (PFMW and Breach for example). Also, when buffeted by the dragon (at the time each new wave of Skeleton Warlords is summoned) is actually a very good time to refresh Alacrity since PC doesn't go unconscious.

Adding a Planetar to the summons is good, but Planetar is fragile. Moreover, Firkraag casts Lower Fire Resistance on fire-immune or fire-resistant summons like the Greater Djinni, Salamander Nobles or Planetar.

Tried improving THAC0 (while being doomed twice) via Tenser's Transformation. Didn't work. Also tried if the dragon would Silence PC with Tenser's active. Yeah, the dragon did.

Edited: Lady Vanya does not appear in the Paladin Stronghold on schedule, despite my character being True Neutral and with 20 reputation. Another anti-solo measure perhaps. So I won't be able to forge the Talisman of Greater Protection nor Death of a thousand Cuts +4.

This post has been edited by Krell: May 30 2015, 07:40 AM

[chaser]

The relationship between damage and resistance follow the "ceil" rule.For example:If your character can deal 40 damage with weapon,when facing a 90% physical resistance enemy,the result is 4.Howevee,if you can deal 41 damage,after 90% reduction,the result is 5.I often use this rule to arrange my party's weapon proficiency,maxmize their damage output.

[blastermaster]

Ah makes sense, so basically they round up to the nearest whole number.

The rest of WK didn't last long, I opened up the portal to Demogorgon and just left him there.

So now it's Yaga Shura time.

Initial impressions: boy does time fly by between rounds of Yaga's support. Supposedly it's 3 rounds between their spawning but sure feels like less. Clerics always spawn half a screen away from me, so there goes most of the first round just moving to them to dispatch them. I cannot effectively kill the F/M in the same round as the cleric, so for now my plan is to focus on the cleric because Storm of Vengeance just ruins all other intentions.

Haven't tried summons yet, but they may help distract, especially if the Fire Giants knock them around and then go chase them.

Biggest issue at the moment is that there's really no way to avoid being surrounded by the enemies, so you are quickly penned in. If the Fighter/Mages are alive when this happens (and I have no idea how they wouldn't be), you're a sitting duck. They get 3 Ruby Rays each, and 5 Breach. I am not sure whether I should try to run them out of Ruby Rays, or save the 9 spell slots and just try to run them out of breaches on things like Stoneskin (which are no protection vs. Fire Giants anyways).

Do Yaga's followers need to die before he can be harmed?

This post has been edited by blastermaster: May 30 2015, 05:17 PM

[Krell]

Initial impressions: boy does time fly by between rounds of Yaga's support. Supposedly it's 3 rounds between their spawning but sure feels like less. Clerics always spawn half a screen away from me, so there goes most of the first round just moving to them to dispatch them. I cannot effectively kill the F/M in the same round as the cleric, so for now my plan is to focus on the cleric because Storm of Vengeance just ruins all other intentions.

Haven't tried summons yet, but they may help distract, especially if the Fire Giants knock them around and then go chase them.

Biggest issue at the moment is that there's really no way to avoid being surrounded by the enemies, so you are quickly penned in. If the Fighter/Mages are alive when this happens (and I have no idea how they wouldn't be), you're a sitting duck. They get 3 Ruby Rays each, and 5 Breach. I am not sure whether I should try to run them out of Ruby Rays, or save the 9 spell slots and just try to run them out of breaches on things like Stoneskin (which are no protection vs. Fire Giants anyways).

Do Yaga's followers need to die before he can be harmed?

I don't know at what level your F/N casts RVE, because if he does that just like a true Necromancer, you should be given the option of 100% magic resistance, which lasts for some time. That is your protection against Storm of Vengeance.

You cannot deplete 15 enemy RRR with just spell turnings. I think you should go offensive vs the F/M and slaughter at least two by RRR + Breach + multiple Acid Arrows. Minute Meteors are your alternative as fnishing off the last F/M. Of course, equip Hammer of Thor in the offhand. So being surrounded by enemies is not that bad. Just keep up PFMW, SI:A and GoI, and disrupt Storms of Vengeance via LMD. Keep up Alacrity the whole time, you need all your 9th level slots to be Alacrities.

Summoning Djinnis and other powerful stuff pre-combat in the upper right corner (use wish-rest or RVE-rest for multiples) will help you move freely and thus slaughter enemy mages in melee. In this case the enemies won't surround PC (who is under PFMW) but will chase unprotected summons instead.

I don't think you have to kill any of Yaga's lieutenants to be able to kill him. He has only one Hardiness and is exceptionally vulnerable to electrical and cold elemental damage. However he is quite resistant to physical damage, and under Hardiness he's immune.

Basically here is an idea for the start of the fight:

No summons, no Spell Immunity on self, MR 100% from RVE (if possible), enter Yaga camp, harm him with a hit. Immediately after his dialogue quaff an Invisibility potion.

Cast Alacrity, Yaga should appear by the end of it. Actually not sure if you have to cross a certain point for Yaga to appear, testt a bit, find what triggers his appearance.

First wave of Lieutenants arrive, PC under Alacrity, cast LMD on self when enemies start chanting their spells, triggering some buffs with a Chain Contingency which include PFMW Foreknowledge. You need Foreknowledge at maximum duration.

Target the mage lieutenant with triple RRR, Breach and shower him with Acid Arrows, Magic missiles (or Chromatic orbs, whichever does more damage, I don't remember), disrupt cleric's Storm of Vengeance with a LMD spell (memorize several of these, no less than 4), cast SI:A against enemy incoming Breach thus wasting his round effectively, refresh alacrity, quaff Invisibility potion, wait for the second wave. Rinse, repeat.

Third wave - debuff the enemy f/m using your last RRR and another Breach, this time be ready with a second Breach, also Melf's Meteors or (if you can spare a slot) Energy Blades, move Hammer of Thor to offhand prior to casting, target the f/m with the energy blades.

With the three F/M down this fight should be very easy. A word of advice - after Yaga dies, and after the cutscene, your character will return to the camp. The Elite Fire Giants will be waiting for you, and you will also appear in their midst with no buffs. Be at the ready with a PFMW spell, don't waste all of these (use scrolls, but don't waste the last PFMW). You have to kill the 5 elite fire giants after Yaga's death.

Edited.

This post has been edited by Krell: May 30 2015, 08:13 PM