Party of lesser-used classes and kits Options

[blastermaster]

The Sphere is proving to be a challenge at this point. With only three castings of level 6 spells available, I am forced to use one for Improved Haste and two for PFMW. The Greater Bone Golem and 2xGem and 2xCoin golems in the time machine ended up taking a lot of my potions and scrolls. I am down to one PFMW scroll, one Improved Mantle (which I'd really like to save to scribe in my spellbook, but haven't yet because I need another level before I could cast it from there), and one Absolute Immunity. I have three superior healing potions, one extra healing potion, and two oil of resurgences.

Lavok was challenging, due to his ability to PW:Kill once he finds a good opportunity. I am not used to multiclass FM and their lower HP than a dual class. Eyeballing my health bar, I'd think I was OK and then would hear the spell being cast and by then it's usually too late. Oil of Resurgence, which I almost never use in other runthroughs, was actually quite key here. It allowed me to recover from Lavok's intermittent damage spells (Vampiric Touch and Acid Arrow, I think) without using too many one-per-round actions. So I could refresh Haste and Stoneskin while recovering from his spells and staying out of PW:Kill range. It's always cool to find uses for things I never have before (see above with Protection from Normal Missiles).

I am terrified of the engine room of the sphere, because IIRC it has TWO groups of Greater Bone, 2xGem, 2xCoin, and they tend to come to each other's aid when you engage with one of them. EDIT: I am at level 14 mage, almost level 15, which brings no growth in level 6 spells (nor access to level 8 spells). I may have to revert back to pre-Sphere and level up before coming back. I don't see how I can manage the engine room otherwise, unless those groups are able to be battled separately. Or perhaps I can just go in there invisible and avoid them entirely; their loot and experience isn't terribly necessary given I'm only leveling up and equipping one character.

This post has been edited by blastermaster: Apr 28 2015, 12:38 PM

[blastermaster]

In fact, the group(s) in the power core can be tackled separately. I think the reason you have to fight them all at once with a large party is because one of them ends up within some distance of the other group, triggering their help. With my solo character, I was able to keep them hemmed in the narrow passage they start in, and face each group individually with rest in between. Additionally, thanks to the narrow pathway, only two of them can attack at a time, so I was able to comfortably refresh stoneskins, only using PFMW when I needed to refresh my Draw Upon Holy Might. Still, each group takes long enough that my Improved Haste runs out and I must finish the battle with plain Haste.

Things continue to go well and be fun, though I am constantly haunted by the choice to multiclass rather than dual class from a level 9 fighter. The dual class just can't get a great Thac0, even for chapter 2 and 3 enemies. By my math, Tenser's Partial gets him to 7 Thac0. Subtract 1 for Specialization, 7 for 25 strength (DUHM), 4 from weapon enchantment (when I'm able to get Phosphorus), 1 from gauntlets, 1 from Helm of Balduran, and you're only sitting at -7. By the end of the game, maybe -11 or -12, when you're able to factor in a nice Ioun stone upgrade, a slightly more enchanted weapon, etc. On the plus side, a level 9 fighter would get to level 33 mage, I think, and make for a very potent Remove Magic and perfect defense against the same from virtually every enemy in the game. If the dual class could get to around -17 or -18 Thac0, he could hit things like Greater/Supreme Golems every time (I think they have around -18 AC). That would make the choice a no-brainer in favor of dual.

[blastermaster]

Thought I was ready for Samia at 16/16. Was not ready for Samia at 16/16. Likely going to wait for level 9 spells before trying to tackle this one again.

[blastermaster]

Comet was super helpful for Samia & co. Breach on Chak, attack Chak (with one hit on Legdoril each round to ensure no Deva summoned), Comet to disperse the crowd. Keep Pro:Fire up, as well as Spell Immunity to ensure you're not having a comet land on your head. Spell Sequencer for Stoneskin and Pro:Fire is super helpful.

Umar was a major pain. The imp quickly overwhelms with summons and must be killed quickly. I didn't think I could strip his spell protections fast enough, so I just whacked away at him. One round to remove his first Stoneskin, one round to remove his Contingency stoneskin, and once I see a hit go through after that, I activate Critical Strike to take him down before any other defense could be raised. Had enough swings left on Critical Strike to take down one Whisper Spider too, which was nice. Exit the room to better position myself, refresh some protections, take down the Whisper Spider and focus on stripping away Umar's defense. Umar's summons seem unlimited, at least in some of my failed tries, and could be a source of a ton of experience and gold for a post-Spellhold party. Once Umar is dead, there's still around 8 Skeleton Lords and Warlords, plus Minotaurs, to be dealt with. Three scrolls of PFMW were used to survive.

Thax (shadow dragon) was exhilarating. Went in with full buffs (Pro:Acid, SI:Abjuration, Spell Turning, Stoneskin, PFMW, Mirror Image, Improved Haste, DUHM). Contingency set to Stoneskin upon 50% health. And just whacked away. Phosphorus until Thax cast PFMW, then moved it to the offhand and equipped a plain Morning Star in the main hand. Back to magic weapons a bit later, then unenchanted until Thax died. Ended up having 8 HP left at the end of the fight and paused to find the closest route to escape the death cloud just in case. If I had Mage level 20, I'd have gotten an extra skin on each Stoneskin cast and would have had a much more comfortable fight. If I was mage level 17, I don't think I would have succeeded since I'd have had one less skin each time. Either way, I made one significant mistake in not using Tenser's Transformation before the fight. I wouldn't be casting anyways, and the extra HP would have been a nice buffer.

So that is one major obstacle resolved, now that I can craft the Amulet of Hades and be immune to this silence business in the future. Next step is to do the bard and fighter strongholds, grab myself a permanency scroll and craft up Memory of the Apprenti to really kick the spells into high gear. Currently at 7.88M Experience (21 Fighter / 19 Necro), so will soon be at the point where it's just a matter of grabbing up some equipment before heading to (Improved) Spellhold.

[blastermaster]

Seems grave liches (for example the one with Daystar) can attack while under Time Stop. This cost me a reload :-)

[blastermaster]

Spider Queen and her minions cost me one PFMW scroll. Just so many of them...

Elemental Golem in the North room of Watcher's Keep Elemental Level was no problem. Only summoned two minor golems; should have let him stick around longer - not for the experience, which is rapidly approaching the level cap, but rather for the gems and coins they leave behind. I am very low on gold, and he dropped the Girdle of Fortitude (this is usually randomized much later for me).

Chromatic Demon always seems to revert to his fire form when being let out of his cage. Prep with SI:Abjuration, Spell Turning, Improved Haste, Absolute Immunity. Let him out, Lower Resistance, Improved Alacrity, Lower Resistance, Greater Malaison, Spell Trigger: 3xCone of Cold, bunch of castings of Cone of Cold, one casting of Ice Storm, Spell Sequencer 3xIce Storm, activate Smite, refresh Absolute Immunity. Attack him. Smite's stun does work on him, letting all further attacks hit with 100% chance (I think they would anyways due to Thac0 but I feel like I don't Critical Miss when enemy is stunned, could be my imagination though). The cold spells get him to Near Death, and my attacks take a couple of rounds to do the rest. At 2 damage per swing, and him regenerating 1 HP per second, he must have been down to about 20 HP or less from the cold spells. His minions seem to disappear when he dies, which is unfortunate (I only killed the Hybrid Mist thing, accidentally, via the cold spells). Might re-do this battle to kill an Amber Golem first, as I might need it to get the Crom Faeyr upgrade at the first moment possible.

Troll Mound next, and hopefully I can get the Girdle of 19 STR and craft up that cool belt. Need some cash for this though, and also have the parts to The Truth but can't see myself dropping 100k on it quite yet. I also want to craft up a Ring of Protection +4 and Cloak of Protection +3 (I think that can stack with other items, but will test first of course). Really didn't think cash would be an issue in this runthrough, given that I'm just equipping one person, but those rings are quite expensive!

[Krell]

To upgrade Crom Faeyr you need Uzuno's Blade, which is randomized on the 4th level of Watcher's keep (90% certain of that). And on that same level there is an Ultra Golem which will summon 6 (or 9, don't remember) amber golems if left alone. So no need to redo the Chroma fight, moreover the demon may switch to another form in the first rounds while you battle an Amber golem and then all of your cold spells are useless.

Any item of protection +2 works with another protective item of any grade. You can, however, only have one +3 or higher item equipped on a character. Only two exceptions: Cernd's Master of the High Forest cloak +4 and the Cloak of Arcane Immortality +3. Cernd's cloak can be worn with UAI and you have to fulfill the stat requirements as well. BTW Improved cloak of protection +2 also cannot be used together with a +3 or higher protective item.

Unless you modded that as well, the Truth cannot be used except by single-class good-aligned warriors. No need to upgrade it anyway, there are better weapons.

With so many game changes your character can make it. This, however, is not an IA v6 modded game anymore, fyi. I tried a similar run and was halted by two things - lack of Immunity to silence and various Sikret-implemented "anti-solo tweaks", so to speak.

[blastermaster]

Troll Mound: easy. Pretty much anything that can be tackled pre-Spellhold is proving to be not too difficult for this character.

Chaos (Druid Stronghold) is proving to be very difficult. He casts Killer Insects every 60 seconds, which negates spellcasting for... 60 seconds (not to mention the damage). Spell Immunity doesn't seem to block it, nor is there any save. I don't think I can disrupt the casting. I may try to summon a Planetar and see if that can get Chaos to try to cast on it while I get out of the area of effect. 60 seconds should give me enough time to unload my spellbook on Chaos, and if that's not enough, so be it. Joolon isn't really that useful anyways.

Expanded Mage Stronghold has been easy until "Why is it so cold in here?". That is looking very difficult. Without Foreknowledge, my Ray of Fragmentations are taking a long time to cast (I do have -3 casting speed from Vecna's upgrade and Amulet of Power's upgrade). I can get the Ice Golem down to around 85/200 via these spells, but finishing the job is very difficult. Especially because the Slow applications keep making my character stop attacking and his Attacks per round are poor under this effect. Might need to max out levels and come back to this one.

[blastermaster]

Firkraag is an enormous pain. Greater Doom appears to stack, and gives a -6 penalty to Thac0. Two of those and I'm nearly unable to hit Firkraag or his Skeleton Warlords.

[chaser]

Can you use the amulate of hades?Firkragg can be killed after he summons all 9 skeleton warlords.So ignore these skeleton warriors,make Firkragg nealy death twice then kill him the third time.

[blastermaster]

Yes, I am treating my character as a Necro protagonist, so I do have the Amulet of Hades. Without it, I would stand no chance.

That's an interesting idea, to leave the Skeleton Warlords alive, though the problem is that you have to be very perfect with Protection from Magic Weapons or the Skeleton Warlords will kill you almost immediately if it lapses. At least if you kill them, you only have Firkraag hitting you for some time, so you can rely on Stoneskin for a bit.

Firkraag casts Lower Fire Resistance and then Improved Fireball 2 seconds later, un-interruptible. The first time it's not so bad, I go from 100 Fire Resist down to maybe 50, but then he does it again and again.

The real problem though is Greater Doom. It lowers everything (Thac0, Saves) by -6, and it lasts 100 rounds, and it stacks. And it looks like Firkraag does it until your saves are 8 or worse. When this happens, I cannot hit Firkraag or the Skeletons (apart from Critical Strike). So interestingly, there is no reason to wear things like Ring of Protection. In fact, they just make him cast it more, ruining my Thac0. So I think the solution is to not wear them at all so he only casts Greater Doom once or twice.

I will probably return to this battle when I reach the level cap and have the maximum number of Critical Strikes available. Maybe even post-Spellhold when I may have some other equipment available too. With the right rings, I can better manage my saves to reach precisely the point where he stops Dooming me. I forget where the Ring of Fire Resistance is, but that would also be a huge help, to be able to put off and on during the battle. Likewise with the shields and helmet that grant fire resistance.

[Krell]

Troll Mound: easy. Pretty much anything that can be tackled pre-Spellhold is proving to be not too difficult for this character.

Chaos (Druid Stronghold) is proving to be very difficult. He casts Killer Insects every 60 seconds, which negates spellcasting for... 60 seconds (not to mention the damage). Spell Immunity doesn't seem to block it, nor is there any save. I don't think I can disrupt the casting. I may try to summon a Planetar and see if that can get Chaos to try to cast on it while I get out of the area of effect. 60 seconds should give me enough time to unload my spellbook on Chaos, and if that's not enough, so be it. Joolon isn't really that useful anyways.

Expanded Mage Stronghold has been easy until "Why is it so cold in here?". That is looking very difficult. Without Foreknowledge, my Ray of Fragmentations are taking a long time to cast (I do have -3 casting speed from Vecna's upgrade and Amulet of Power's upgrade). I can get the Ice Golem down to around 85/200 via these spells, but finishing the job is very difficult. Especially because the Slow applications keep making my character stop attacking and his Attacks per round are poor under this effect. Might need to max out levels and come back to this one.

Killer Insects are negated by an Oil of Resurgence. Don't ask how or why. You still won't be able to cast any spells though, but you can bypass that via scrolls (PFMW) or Contingencies (Improved Haste or PFMW). You could also use Elite trolls summoned by Monster Summoning VI, those help.

I can't remember my own Berserker-Mage solo run of the Ice challenge, but I think I used a lot of Elite Trolls there as well.

Firkraag casts Lower Fire Resistance and then Improved Fireball 2 seconds later, un-interruptible. The first time it's not so bad, I go from 100 Fire Resist down to maybe 50, but then he does it again and again.

If you were playing on Insane rather than Core, the first time would've been lethal.

The real problem though is Greater Doom. It lowers everything (Thac0, Saves) by -6, and it lasts 100 rounds, and it stacks. And it looks like Firkraag does it until your saves are 8 or worse. When this happens, I cannot hit Firkraag or the Skeletons (apart from Critical Strike). So interestingly, there is no reason to wear things like Ring of Protection. In fact, they just make him cast it more, ruining my Thac0. So I think the solution is to not wear them at all so he only casts Greater Doom once or twice.

Greater Doom stacks with itself, and can be targeted on a character under Improved Invisibility.

I will probably return to this battle when I reach the level cap and have the maximum number of Critical Strikes available. Maybe even post-Spellhold when I may have some other equipment available too. With the right rings, I can better manage my saves to reach precisely the point where he stops Dooming me. I forget where the Ring of Fire Resistance is, but that would also be a huge help, to be able to put off and on during the battle. Likewise with the shields and helmet that grant fire resistance.

I doubt anything will help you in this fight. And I doubt you will be able to pull it, despite all of the modifications. I think this is the breaking point of the challenge. Switching on and off fire res gear seems good, but vs greater doom stacking there is no cure. Plus, you can be buffeted unconscious and then fried via Improved Fireball of Red Dragon Breath, in which case you won't be able to react in any way.

[blastermaster]

Cleaned up some loose ends - Roenalls, Theshal, Ashideena. Tried Orcus, but he may be too much for me at this point. Foreknowledge would help, letting me refresh Spell Turning and Spell Immunity a bit faster and get back to whacking away sooner. Haven't tried using Alacrity in the battle yet, but it might help.

Supreme Golem in Watcher's Keep is ludicrously difficult for me at this stage. And as sort of a preview to the Epic Divine Encounter, it's terrifying. Somehow he's hitting me for 25 damage while I'm under PFMW and protected from Elements. Oils of Resurgence aren't doing anything, perhaps because they are interfering with another regeneration item. I can get him down to around 320 HP before my own HP is pretty low. Maybe Cat Figurine would help here, but after Ch. 4-5, I don't have to fight this guy anyways. He seems to block any Ch 2 or 3 parties from beginning level 3 in WK.

Might take a few more stabs at Orcus, Firkraag, and the Ice/Elemental Golems in the sphere. I think the latter is my best chance. Timing is the hardest part; the cold application disrupts spells, as does the Ice Golem's Ice Storm and other attacks. So it's really hard to time things. I basically need to unload all of my Ray of Fragmentations (including those in Spell Sequencer and Spell Trigger), plus Vampiric Touches, to get him down to 85/200 or so. Another Alacrity, Wish Rest, and repeat of the ROFs and VT and I should have him down to 25 or so, which I can reasonably deal in between Purge Magic's. From there it should be a walk in the park against the Elemental Golem.

[blastermaster]

Very exciting battle against the Ice Golem and Elemental Golem. Many things were key.

SPOILER!

1) summon Noble Spider to draw Elemental Golem while I'm casting Alacrity (he dies within a round)
2) under Alacrity: PFMW, Ray of Fragmentation x 10 (Ring of Acuity!), Vampiric Touch x 10, Larloch's Drain x 9, Minor Sequencer Larloch x 2, Sequencer RoF x 3, Spell Trigger RoF x 3.
3) during the above, re-cast PFMW when purge magic hits. Cast Spell Immunity: Evocation to become immune to the Ice Golems cold attacks (yes, remarkably even the Freezing Wind attack actually has this spell school, most IA spells are School-less).
4) After a slow hits, equip Boots of Speed, cast Improved Haste. At end of round, quickly chug Potion of Freedom. In IA, it appears a "free action" type item will prevent future haste spells, but not cancel existing ones. This is crucial. So for the next couple of rounds, we get 9 attacks per round.
5) Purge magic. Get hit a bunch of times, Contingency: PFMW.
6) Improved Haste
7) Potion of Freedom
8) dead Ice Golem.
9) Use remaining PFMW against Elemental Golem, with 3 x Critical Strike in between each PFMW. Easy at this point, but ended up using my last PFMW (had scrolls if needed though).

Anyways, without the SPOILER!

potion of freedom and ring of acuity

it wouldn't have worked I don't think. Another purge was coming and I wouldn't have been able to save a round letting PFMW come via Contingency.

As for the next expanded stronghold quest, I did a couple of quick trial runs and I don't expect to be able to SPOILER!

keep Pasha alive

. No idea if the stronghold quests would continue, but this is kind of the nail in the coffin for EDE.

[Krell]

As for the next expanded stronghold quest, I did a couple of quick trial runs and I don't expect to be able to SPOILER!

keep Pasha alive

. No idea if the stronghold quests would continue, but this is kind of the nail in the coffin for EDE.

If Pasha dies, the stronghold quests won't continue. You can keep him alive with lots and lots of summons, so I'd personally wait until I have the Ring of Greater Djinni Summoning or even Lord of the Underworkd (why not). Use Wish/rest as prebuff to summon multiple quantities of heavy summons, this will help in future fights as well.

Cleaned up some loose ends - Roenalls, Theshal, Ashideena. Tried Orcus, but he may be too much for me at this point. Foreknowledge would help, letting me refresh Spell Turning and Spell Immunity a bit faster and get back to whacking away sooner. Haven't tried using Alacrity in the battle yet, but it might help.

Supreme Golem in Watcher's Keep is ludicrously difficult for me at this stage. And as sort of a preview to the Epic Divine Encounter, it's terrifying. Somehow he's hitting me for 25 damage while I'm under PFMW and protected from Elements. Oils of Resurgence aren't doing anything, perhaps because they are interfering with another regeneration item. I can get him down to around 320 HP before my own HP is pretty low. Maybe Cat Figurine would help here, but after Ch. 4-5, I don't have to fight this guy anyways. He seems to block any Ch 2 or 3 parties from beginning level 3 in WK.

Orcus should be fine if you already assembled the Memory of the Apprenti. A long fight, though, make sure you have at least 10-15 PFMW scrolls and enough improved hastes memorized. Spell Turning becomes unreliable as rounds progress simply because summoned vampires will eat it away with their Dominate spells. For that, you should have a couple Globes of Invulnerability memorized as well as all of the Spell Immunities you can. Refreshing Spell Immunity and PFMW at the same time is possible if you have Contingencies memorized (also, it's very wise to have a spare Chain Contingency as well). The rest of the 9-th level slots should be Absolute Immunity - Improved Alacrity does very little in this fight, I wouldn't bother memorizing even one. Don't bother with summons either.

The Supreme Golem in WK is a lot more harder than the EDE Supreme Golem. First of all, Helm's Supreme Golem (in WK) has Purge Magic once every 4 rounds. Second, he starts with some kind of earthquake effect, which the other one (in EDE) doesn't have. The thing which hits you back is called "Elemental Backlash", it inflicts damage of all elemental types on the attacker with each successful blow much like a regular (permanent) fireshield. So you need to refresh elemental protections as well as PFMW to have absolute protection...well, for 4 rounds before the next Purge Magic hits (or you could use elemental-protective gear). Thing is, as far as I remember, you need some good saves vs the Elemental Backlash or it has a chance of lowering your elemental resistances even further. And all in all, you shouldn't fight that golem as of yet. Sure, that is the only way to continue inside WK at present chapters, but you can wait until after Underdark when you will be given the opportunity to fight the Green Wyrm instead. The wyrm simply has better treasure, including some (possibly crucial) ingredients like for example the Ring of Air control, which is important to create the Ring of Greater Djinni Summoning. If your character is evil-aligned or has certain low reputation, however, then Helm's Supreme Golem will attack you on sight.

[blastermaster]

I didn't know SPOILER!

Limak

had a scroll of Chain Contingency. A nice find that will make me re-try a few more things before Spellhold. I do get worried that Spellhold and even visiting Cromwell afterwards won't get me much character improvement. My character is starting to "plateau", unfortunately.

[blastermaster]

Orcus is a huge pain. Partly because Chain Contingency (50% health) doesn't kick in fast enough with the amount of damage you're taking if your PFMW lapses. And partly because he also casts Greater Doom, like Firkraag, and won't stop until your Save vs. Death is 8 or more. If I unload my rings and cloak, that gets me to -4 (base 3, -3 for Amulet of Hades, -1 for Helm of Balduran, -2 from Memory of Apprenti, not sure where the last point comes from). At -4, I'm looking at two greater dooms to get me to Save vs. Death of 8. This would bring my Thac0 to -4. Which is not going to cut it against Grandlords and Master Vampires. May try Firkraag again, then give Orcus one more try before giving up and heading to Spellhold.

[chaser]

Have you tried potion of magic shielding?I think dragons and Orcus wouldn't cast doom if you drink it first.Most enemies have finite RRoRs,so keep refreshing SI:abj,Spell Turning and GoI to protect your character from being dispelled,then you have chance to attack.
Firkragg is just a small boss compared with Saradrex and Ancient Dragon.I suggest you remove xp cap,make a lv 40/40 F/M,then you would have a little chance to challenge those big bosses…

[blastermaster]

Potion of Magic Shielding worked well. I used two of them, two potions of Freedom and maybe 5 PFMW scrolls. Yes, Orcus has finite RRoR, but it's something like eight and it is difficult to keep up spell protections when you need to take every 4th round to cast PFMW. So he gains ground on you every 4 rounds. Additionally, due to the order spell protections are stripped, if you just have GoI left when he's out of RRoR, you're getting Breached. And GoI is the only one that can be cast from Spell Trigger. The major issue here was Chain Contingency not kicking in fast enough. In fact, it finally triggered when I was alone with Orcus and using Stoneskins to save on scrolls (he had some kind of elemental or magic damage that happened onhit that was getting to me).

Greater Doom is still an enormous headache. I think I can beat Firkraag with one Magic Shielding potion, but I hate to keep burning them this early in the journey. I was going to try Wind Master before Firkraag, but I plan to upgrade Jhor the Bleeder which I think will help me against that guy. No rush for his paltry treasure.

[Krell]

I also think that you will have decent chance if you remove the xp cap. High level remove magic is very important and high level buffs are important as well in the EDE fight.

Saladrex is easier than Firkraag simply because he doesn't have any "minions" to prolong the fight. A dead magic zone in there, but Saladrex can be harmed via normal weapons. Sadly criticals don't work against him.

To avoid being vulnerable once every 3.5 rounds you may cast a defensive Alacrity, which allows you to refresh Spell turning, GoI, Spell Immunity and PFMW at the same time. Then again, you may set the (Chain) Contingency to trigger on getting Hit. With so many enemies around, this will mean immediate trigger, a hit still will trigger a Contingency even if your character is still protected from magic weapons (as he should be).

You cannot upgrade Jhor the Bleeder before you kill Firkraag. And you shouldn't. The weapon is crap in v6. Also, the Windmaster can be defeated very fast with the right selection of elemental spells. He's vulnerable to acid and fire. Use all short-time casting spells. Comet may be even more effective than Dragon Breath. The quest order is - original MNORH quests - killing Firkraag - 1 week later Lady Vanya appears for Extended Paladin Stronghold quests, the second one of those gives you the final ingredient for Jhor the Bleeder's upgrade - the 48-th sided garnet.

Firkraag has the ring of Fire Resistance. The rest of his items are generally useless to a F/M, and he also cannot have any important item ingredients. However, the extended paladin stronghold quests (which trigger after his death) will allow you to assemble the Talisman of Greater Protection, which may come in handy in some fights. Not a very necessary item overall for a F/M. Basically, you can skip Firkraag altogether. However you shouldn't skip Orcus.