Party of lesser-used classes and kits Options

[Krell]

Orcus tests with a 40/40/40 lvl F/M/T.

First of all, he didn't use any Purge Magicks, then again my char didn't use buffs except for Improved Haste. Probably Purge Magic is triggered by stacking PFMW and Spell Immunity.

Beat him two different ways. The "honest" way requires two things - 4 Barbarian Essence potions plus some fast item equip/unequip. Orcus' most dangerous action is casting Paralyze (has only one apparently) which triggers immediately (no way to protect via re-equipping protection rings and cloaks) and holds PC in place. The hold effect is not scary, since it wanes in a turn. The scary thing is the following 3*FoD CC which cannot be reacted to anymore, given that PC is Held. So the logical choice of action is protecting PC via a potion of Freedom (cannot be dispelled by enemy melee hits) thus triggering the 3*FoD CC before enemy's Hold ability. Afterwards Greater Dooms wane and there is not even need to wear the Charm protection helmet anymore (essential vs Dominate spells while under Greater Doom/Malison).

Counted only two Silences of the Dead, strange, I thought those were 3. Maybe miscount. The only buff which needs refreshing once with the help of Contingency under Silence is Improved Haste.

Second way was much safer and included 20 Greater Djinnis.

Still, to waste 4 Barbarian essences in order to get 4 Barbarian essences and almost nothing more except some scrolls for money is, well, silly.

[Krell]

The Supreme Leader is a walk in the park with the help of Jan's armor + 4 Barbarian essences even on Insane. Unfortunately, couldn't think of any other way to survive those Anti-Inqisitors and their Torturous Inquisitions. Even so, even with the Ring of Fire Resistance and the Helm of Brilliance my PC's proFire was 75% after taking all Torturous Inqusitions. Still, it's easy enough to resist/protect vs the other Supreme Leader's offensive spells - Poseidon's Wrath vs ADHW, Boots of Grounding + Dragon Helm vs spell trigger: triple Chain lightning, and potions of healing/cat figurine against the Melf's acid arrows and Chromatic orbs. He leaves vampiric touches as last resort.

[Krell]

Couldn't find a way to beat Saladrex consistently on Insane. On Core it's completely possible to survive a Breath or two, but not on Insane. Managed to kill him twice the honest way, but died so many times to Wing Buffet + Breath or Breath when dragon is engaged in melee. Saladrex seems to be casting (and breathing) faster than Firkraag. Thing is that unlike Firkraag, his defences has to be waited out, which gives him plenty of time to stack multiple Lower Fire Resistances, and then no fire res gear can save PC. Also he's very fond of the Buffet + Breath combo. So unfortunately had to resort to Djinni's help, which did the job fine. 20 of them.

A bug: Don't know if anyone reported this, but here's the issue: There are two types of Chain Lightning scrolls in IA v6 which don't mix with one another. My guess is that the second CL scroll occupies the address of the exiled Mislead spell. So while they are basically the same spell, the game treats them differently, namely Cromwell. He will not accept the latter CL scroll (Mislead-turned-CL) for an item upgrade (like the Noble Staff of Air), but will only accept the first one. So be careful which one you're selling and best leave a couple of each.

Dunno if this is a bug, or anti-solo feature, or something else, but this is probably the third playthrough in a row without a Helmet of Defense. Saladrex should have it, but didn't drop it. Again. Is that item dropped by Saladrex only in case of a Necromancer PC? I remember getting it only with a Necro PC so far.

[critto]

Dunno if this is a bug, or anti-solo feature, or something else, but this is probably the third playthrough in a row without a Helmet of Defense. Saladrex should have it, but didn't drop it. Again. Is that item dropped by Saladrex only in case of a Necromancer PC? I remember getting it only with a Necro PC so far.

SPOILER!

Either Saladrex, Firkraag or Black Dragon might have it. Did you check all three of them?

A bug: Don't know if anyone reported this, but here's the issue: There are two types of Chain Lightning scrolls in IA v6 which don't mix with one another.

Indeed. I'll fix it in 6.2.

This post has been edited by critto: May 30 2015, 07:54 PM

[Krell]

Dunno if this is a bug, or anti-solo feature, or something else, but this is probably the third playthrough in a row without a Helmet of Defense. Saladrex should have it, but didn't drop it. Again. Is that item dropped by Saladrex only in case of a Necromancer PC? I remember getting it only with a Necro PC so far.

SPOILER!

Either Saladrex, Firkraag or Black Dragon might have it. Did you check all three of them?

No, didn't check the last one. We'll see if he got it.

[Krell]

Regrettably, the Ancient Dragon cannot be killed on Insane difficulty with a character vulnerable to Silence. Well, supposedly he can be killed once in a thousand attempts. I did kill his minions several times, but after that the Greater Doom + Greater Silence + spammed Lower Fire Res + fire damaging spells/breath is just too much. I guess it still may be doable on Core in, let's say, 25-30% of the cases, but as for a sound tactic, that is a no-no. Sorry Greater Djinnies, it seems it's your job again.

So far greater djinnies used vs: Saladrex, Orcus, Ancient Dragon. I try to avoid these as much as possible, really, but on the other hand I'm not looking for a win one out of hundred, but one which can be applied consistently like 95% of the time.

[Krell]

All of ToB's enemies didn't require any genie spamming. Pre-EDE some impressions:

Easy fights: Yaga-Shura, Oasis, Illasera
Medium difficulty fights: Gromnir due to Karun the Black. It's really hard to refresh illusions and immunity Divination without being exposed even for a second. Still, I discovered that the neglected 5th level spell Shadow Door is very useful since it overlaps with Improved Invisibility. The spell may be useful in other situations too since it doesn't actually provide the 4 bonus to saves and thus doesn't trigger additional Greater Doom castings in case of a dragon fight.
Hard fights: Draconis, Abazigal, Sendai

Sendai simply has to be done the right way, then it becomes easy. It is possible for a soloer to kill the Pet before it roars. If the pet manages to roar, this doesn't affect scroll PFMW casting. Web golems have a really low AC, spent all my remaining 15 criticals on them. Sendai needs a lot of Breach scrolls to be taken down because of her numerous defences. One on one she cannot be overwhelmed with an alpha strike as would a team do.

Draconis is vulnerable to fire and magical damage. He's very clever in reserving some combat protections and starts actvating them at Badly Injured. Still he can be killed in a blink under Alacrity the moment he transforms.

Azi: same as Draconis, vulnerable to Acid as well, starts dragon form with Protection from Magical Energy which hs to be Breached first, tricky part being casting Alacrity after buffs are dispelled. Waiting the Frost Salamander's Prince Dimension Door near PC is a good moment to start casting Alacrity.

I was trying to minimize the quantity of fights which can be won by spamming summons, but I don't see how to avoid that in the Epic Divine Encounter. I'm open for suggestions.

[chaser]

Here are some tips:
SPOILER!

Lack of damage output and an anti-solo mechanism are the two biggest problems.The anti-solo mechanism means:When party member less than 5,prince will cast purge magic every 6 rounds instead of every 10 rounds…(using SI:abj and SI:Div will cause the same consequence).Additionally,when a character who tanks prince use PFMW and Absolute Immunity,the prince will cast single purge magic to him every 2 rounds…Besides purge magic,prince will cast RM every 6 rounds.

Different from blastermaster's F/N,your FMC can't wish for rest,can't wield halbred(Dragonlord and Poseidon are extremely useful here),but you have an invaluable spell:Far Sight. Prince won't(Supreme Golem and Ultra Golem won't either)summon minions when no character in his sight,nor wouldn't he cast purge magic.So your summons would be busy in this battle.

SI:Evocation can block Fire Shield of Supreme Golem and Field of Repulsor of the prince.

The whole procedure would be very very long,so you may want to save to make sure make no mistake in later stage.You can save in the five trail ground but don't save in the main battle field,otherwise each time you reload,there will be 3-9 rakashas waiting for you…

[Krell]

Tnx for the Purge Magic input, so I'm looking at one every 6 rounds, this is nasty. At least it doesn't affect summons.

As for the other, first, my char is F/M/T, not F/M/C, so he will be able to use a lot of items in the oncoming fight. Will definitely try SI:E, unfortunately I have only so many Spell Immunities at my disposal with no way of refreshing those.

Unfortunately my solo char cannot fight and effectively summon powerful stuff, that and the 6-round Purge will be the biggest problems I suppose. My char does have Farsight and I have already memorized almost all 4-th level slots to be Farsight.

We'll see how testing goes from now on.

[chaser]

As for the other, first, my char is F/M/T, not F/M/C, so he will be able to use a lot of items in the oncoming fight.

Oh,it's my fault,didn't notice that mages can use Farsight either.

BTW,wielding Foebane as off-hand can do extra damage to Rakashas(including the Prince),you can try it…

[Krell]

Killed the three golems, the four Noble Rakshasas and all of the Horrid Rakshasas the prince could summon. By spamming multiple Djinnies naturally.

Djinnies seem to hit the Prince only on a Critical. Fair enough. PC on the other hand with main hand THAC0 of -20 is also able to hit the Prince only on Criticals. Anyone care to tell me if this is an anti-solo, or an anti-FMT or an anti-save-during-combat feature?

Edit: Cannot damage him fast enough even with the best weapons at my disposal. Even with tbe Black Blade of Disaster which gives my char 10 APR total. I deal an average of 80 damage per round at the cost of a Critical strike. Despite the fact that I can rest in mid-battle and refresh those, Barbarian Essences cannot be refreshed. Still, I'd probably figure out something if not for the fact that with the 6-round Universal purges I cannot keep the damage ratio up. Djinnies don't help and they're most probably the best fighters I have at my disposal.

This post has been edited by Krell: Jun 2 2015, 02:48 PM

[critto]

It's neither of those. He has AC of -22, do the math.

[Krell]

It's neither of those. He has AC of -22, do the math.

-20 THAC0 vs -22 AC? My char should be able to hit him on a roll of 4 or better. As I said, she only can hit him on a critical strike. Even a roll of 19 misses.

[critto]

Yes, I miscalculated, thac0 werids me out sometimes. Anyhow, I don't have a save game near EDE to test that. Send me your save, I'll check it out.

[Krell]

Sorry, false alarm. Seems like I was just fighting him Fatigued. That explains the low damage too. When I drank a potion, everything went back to normal. Can definitely harm him well enough right now. Testing continues.

Edited: Found a way to trap the Rakshasa Prince:



The thing which blocks the path of the Prince is a petrified Adamantite golem, created via the Limited Wish spell.

Now I have unlimited restings, haven't wasted a single Barb essence or other useful limited charge items except for two Wish and two Limited Wish scrolls.

Unfortunately after resting the prince recuperates as well with full 4 Noble Rakshasa summons and 6 Absolute Immunities.


This post has been edited by Krell: Jun 2 2015, 06:19 PM

[chaser]

Well,I'm still interested in a 3 vagrants party and their 15 swaymays.

The idea originated from the no-arcane party that some of you mentioned before.The no-arcane party is challenging,but can't exert full potential of the summons.
Although I consider summon such IA creatures(swaymay,Djinni,noble spider etc.)have no number limitation as an unfixed bug,I still wonder how powerful can a summon army be.

So my planned party is:
Necro PC,3 Vagrants,Cernd and Lathader14/Mage(or another Auramaster)
Each party member can summon,Necro PC can wish mass IH,the Lathader14/mage can cast Bless,Chant,Defensive Harmony and Protect From Evil,the Auramaster can insta-heal and regenerate the summons.So it must be an interesting journey.
Sadly,I have tested the song effect of Bard,it doesn't work on summons…

I also consider Vagrant PC,but it seems not that interesting because of the elder swaymay army in EDE,which makes this battle very easy,and I don't think it is necessary to summon swaymays anymore.Another problem is,in the Vagrant quest,the elemental golem will appear while any vagrant summon a swaymay,no matter the vagrant is a protag or not…

[nicoper]

Well,I'm still interested in a 3 vagrants party and their 15 swaymays.

The idea originated from the no-arcane party that some of you mentioned before.The no-arcane party is challenging,but can't exert full potential of the summons.
Although I consider summon such IA creatures(swaymay,Djinni,noble spider etc.)have no number limitation as an unfixed bug,I still wonder how powerful can a summon army be.

So my planned party is:
Necro PC,3 Vagrants,Cernd and Lathader14/Mage(or another Auramaster)
Each party member can summon,Necro PC can wish mass IH,the Lathader14/mage can cast Bless,Chant,Defensive Harmony and Protect From Evil,the Auramaster can insta-heal and regenerate the summons.So it must be an interesting journey.
Sadly,I have tested the song effect of Bard,it doesn't work on summons…

I also consider Vagrant PC,but it seems not that interesting because of the elder swaymay army in EDE,which makes this battle very easy,and I don't think it is necessary to summon swaymays anymore.Another problem is,in the Vagrant quest,the elemental golem will appear while any vagrant summon a swaymay,no matter the vagrant is a protag or not…

this party will rock!, if I may advise another Aura instead of L/M (or go for Valy if you want a ranger party)
I tried (successfully) a party with Necro/sorc/ 2 vagrants/ Cernd/ auramaster
Summon army is tremendous (and vagrant NPCs are quite decent fighters, late game you have 3 wonderful axes with stonefire, frostreaver and unyielding)
With my party, IIRC I didn't forge poseidon to keep frostreaver (just forged Dragon Lord for EDE), vagrant inner resist was enough (seldom used pfme) too resist ADHW

You will see end pf chapter 3 what 3 swanmays means on difficult fights...(and against amber golems or Mithril golem those do make a HUGE difference)

[chaser]

this party will rock!, if I may advise another Aura instead of L/M (or go for Valy if you want a ranger party)
I tried (successfully) a party with Necro/sorc/ 2 vagrants/ Cernd/ auramaster
Summon army is tremendous (and vagrant NPCs are quite decent fighters, late game you have 3 wonderful axes with stonefire, frostreaver and unyielding)
With my party, IIRC I didn't forge poseidon to keep frostreaver (just forged Dragon Lord for EDE), vagrant inner resist was enough (seldom used pfme) too resist ADHW

You will see end pf chapter 3 what 3 swanmays means on difficult fights...(and against amber golems or Mithril golem those do make a HUGE difference)

Thanks for your suggestion~I decide to spend three month to half a year to play through it…Let's see what will happen next…

[crharve1]

Trying two new parties with mixed results:

Party 1: Nec, 3 Vagrants, Priest of Lathander/Mage Dual and a Auramaster. I got this party to the drow ambush part when it became untenable for me. My priest was useless as a 6 level mage and without a superior damage dealer fights lasted too long for my vagrants to tackle the grunt work of killing the drow. I ended up going back to a save before the dual and just going with a pure cleric build. This proved useful until I came back from the underdark and had to deal with Kruin and some of the +4 weapon requiring foes. However, once I got to Greater Swanmay levels most of the fights became walks in the park. Having an army of Swanmays proved useful in most subsequent fights. Cleaning up the remainder of SOA at this point, but this is becoming quite a bit of a super powered group after an initial hicup.



Party 2: Nec, 2 RBs, 1 Kensai, R/C and 1 C14/M+. This crew has been a great killer throughtout SOA. One vexing thing is that this group didn't get the Extended Mage Stronghold for some reason and no Memory of the apprenti. For some reason the old one's never triggered. I moved onto TOB anyway, and this group has gotten the farthest of any of the groups I have played.


Thanks to this thread for inspiring my teams.

[critto]

Hi crharve1.

Thanks for the feedback. You should've written earlier about the stronghold. Did this happen on the latest version?