Swashbucklers Options

[HTRT]

I am very glad to see that Black Wyrm Lair has overcome its financial problems and re-opened to the public. I sincerly hope people will get along in a peaceful and productive way because the community is great.

I would like to adress some toughts on swashbucklers. I heard people tried to improve them somehow in V7. I don't know if it's too late or not, but I'll propose the stuff anyway.

I think it is pretty obvious how they struggle early on in the game and even in chapter 6. I will take that for granted and instead focus on the part where they begin to shine. The two upgrades are really good although they represent a pretty big investment.
In terms of pure late game, a swashbuckler stands as the best armor class and has decent physical resistances. A first problem is that this tanking ability is coupled with very limited or 0 magical resistance, poor rogue saves and no elemental resistances, not to mention less hp than your fighters even though the armor helps a lot. So without buffs your guy cannot really handle tanking at all in non trivial late game battles.
He will not kill stuff very well, but that in itself is not a problem.

During the whole game he will help with traps and locks and this will give you more experience than a regular party using spells, but that XP is not that huge and this cannot truly be an argument on why to go with swashbuckler, because we would much rather pick another powerhouse and less xp overall than crippling the party for more xp.

Last point is that it is somehow hard to fill their high level abilities in a satisfying manner. It kinda looks like they dont have enough picks (greater evasion acrobatic combat hardness and whirlwind are all interesting choices, not to mention magic resistance because the swashbuckler probably has 0)

So what can be done ?

First of all I think the attacks per round are fine and SHOULD NOT change at all. I think it contributes to make that class unique, so I think it would be best to improve it on other fields.

An idea would be to add more traps in different fights. Ok this is not a direct swashbuckler buff. It is just added difficulty in the game but if you happen to have a swashbuckler you will probably have an easier time. That battle against wraith on watcher's keep level 3 has many traps that make the fight harder. Another example would be the slaver ship battle.

In general with IA parties, a character that doesn't come with solid attacks per round physical contribution in the fights has better bring a LOT of firepower and skills to compensate.
For example, a warrior-type dual class cleric brings tanking (good ac AND magical tanking) and very good healing.

An arcane caster adds a lot on the table as well (magic battle buffs offense summons good magical tanking).

As a caster-type character in terms of offense, I think the swashbuckler needs to be "exagerated" in order to add similar power to the party than a caster would.

Ideas (I agree 100% with swashbucklers not having use any item and no backstab):

-Since he only has a limited number of attacks and poor tacho anyway (and he should be fighting single weapon style in order to maximize his Armor class), I think per hit effect could be an idea, wether from ability gained on level up or passive like the riskbreaker, whatever. I think 2 attacks per round would help balancing the ability. The said per hit effect could have something to do with incapacitating the ennemy (it would be fitting rogue style pretty well). In other words, something that helps with "softening" opponent.

-A taunt-like effect in order to maximize the effect of his armor class, although I don't think modding allows such an effect without drastic interventions in scripts.

-Make him stronger as a tank, at least better than a riskbreaker and find a way to cope with their lack of magic/elemental/magic damage resistances.

-More balanced saves (not stronger than anyone, but at least on par)

-The project image/simulacrum-like effects were completely imbalanced and removing them was a good decision. I wonder though if such kinds of powers would be imbalanced on a swashbuckler (stricly limited to him, no quickslot item abuse etc). Let's say for example one instance of simulacrum in order to add a lot in terms of tactical use of swashbuckler and general power. Just another suggestion that would fit the rogue to some extent.

-Early game : He should have the lead either as a tank or as a single target softener, at least give him one personality to fit. For example have him tank slightly better than a ranger cleric, or grant him some early abilities that help fighting tough opponents.


Thanks for reading

[Sikret]

Thank you very much for your input.

Interestingly, you are thinking exactly the same line of thought we did. We are adding per hit effect abilities to the kit: one from the beginning (level 1) and one other gained at higher level.

[nicoper]

Hi HTRT, nice to see you around again!

I tried a party with swash and assassin (Necro, Vagrant, Valygar and RB to compensate )

My feedback was very similar as yours, most likely something will be done to make swash much more competitive early and mi game.