Kruin and Inquisitors, questions Options

[Kerkes]

well, I must say I'm a bit surprised nobody asks help about this one.. (in my latest run, it was the hardest battle for sure. 17 reloads! AAAAAArrrrggh!)
The thing I wanted to ask is this:
Is Kruin immune to "dispel magic" cast from an Inquisitor?
I once played the game with a custom Inq in party (was lvl 18 by the time I met Kruin, I did some of WK, Umar Witch etc.before going back to Alkathla from Underdark). As soon as his buffs kick in, Inq fires his dispel. I get a message : spell ineffective?!
Now, I quit inquisitors for good, and took a blade instead, which, I must say, are 10 times more useful than an Inquisitor will ever be (if you want a powerful dispeller, that is) regardless of his Avenger sword.
Same battle, blade is lvl 23.
Took 4 reloads, and it worked ("remove magic" was succesful.)
What's up with that?

[Sikret]

well, I must say I'm a bit surprised nobody asks help about this one.. (in my latest run, it was the hardest battle for sure. 17 reloads! AAAAAArrrrggh!)
The thing I wanted to ask is this:
Is Kruin immune to "dispel magic" cast from an Inquisitor?

No.

I once played the game with a custom Inq in party (was lvl 18 by the time I met Kruin, I did some of WK, Umar Witch etc.before going back to Alkathla from Underdark). As soon as his buffs kick in, Inq fires his dispel. I get a message : spell ineffective?!

In the vanilla game, all dispel magic/remove magic spells had a bug with one of their effects. Not the main dispelling effect, but the one which was showing the dispelling visual animation was bugged and could be stopped by (Minor) Globe of Invulnerability. As I said, the main dispelling effect didn't have this bug.

In IA, I have fixed this bug, for all such spells, so that you should never see the "Spell Ineffective" message as you would see in the vanilla game. They are fixed even in v5, but perhaps, this paricular fix was not implemented for Inquisitor's dispel magic in v5 (I don't remember). I just checked the v6 version of the spell and it doesn't have the bug, which means it is surely fixed in v6.

However, as I said, that vanilla bug only existed for the visual effects not for the main dispelling effect. The reason your 18th level inquisitor's dispel magic has not worked against Kruin is because inquisitor's dispel magic spell is nerfed in IA and while it works at a higher level than the inquisitor's true level it is not as powerful as it was in the vanilla game (it doesn't work at the double level). Kruin is high level enough to have a chance to stand the dispelling effects of an 18th level inquisitor.

[Sikret]

Just checked again and noticed that unlike other dispel magic spells, the inquisitor's dispel magic didn't have that bug even in the vanilla game. Then checked it in v5 and can confirm that it doesn't have that bug in v5 either.

In other words, the message "Spell ineffective" you have seen has had nothing to do with your inquisitor's spell. Probably you had cast some other spell on him and the message was related to that other spell.

[LZJ]

Hmm if I remember correctly, Kruin has a Fireshield (Blue) activated. Dispel/Remove Magic/Breach are considered attacks in that they will trigger the Fireshield. However, if the character casting the Dispel/Remove Magic is not within melee range, the Fireshield effect fails to work, and this may be the reason for the "Spell Ineffective" message... the Fireshield effect is the one that doesn't work.

[Sikret]

True, but in such cases, the message displayed is "one of the spells has failed". Moreover, dispel magic is not a hostile spell and fire shield doesn't respond to it IIRC.

[LZJ]

You're right, Sikret. I forgot that the message displayed is "one of the spells has failed". Also, I rarely use Dispel Magic so I did not know it wasn't a hostile spell. In that case, I have no idea what caused the "Spell Ineffective" message that Kerkes got.

[Kerkes]

@ Sikret

I know about nerfing of Inquisitors very well, but still fail to see how come he was unable to dispel him.. (what good is he if he can't dispel until lvl 20+ !? I hardly even need it after my sorcs get Time Stop and Alcatry...) I reloaded quite a few times, never worked.
In my latest run, took 4 reloads with a 23lvl blade, on 4th attempt he was succesful.
Doesn't make sense to me.
I know about his globes etc.which won't come down with a succesful dispel, but he also starts with a fireshield:blue I believe, which does if it's succesful. Inquisitor never removed it, blade did.

[Sikret]

An 18th level inquisitor's dispel magic is certainly more powerful than a 23rd level bard's (even considering the nerfed inquisitor dispel magic in IA). A 23rd level bard's remove magic has 30% chance to work against kruin; an 18th level inquisitor's dispel magic's chance of success is 40%.

EDIT: Thanks to Raven for reminding Kruin's level to me to calculate the probabilities correctly.



This post has been edited by Sikret: Oct 28 2008, 09:20 PM

[LZJ]

Hmm recently I tested the Dispel Magic spell using level 7 and level 8 characters, and I found that the level 7 character could never dispel the level 8 character's buffs. I wonder if the problem not only applies to party members, but to enemies as well?

Here's the link for my posts: Dispel Magic test

This post has been edited by LZJ: Oct 29 2008, 06:51 AM

[Raven]

I can't believe that's true - many times I've had my party members attempt Remove (or occasionally Dispel) Magic on enemies who are higher level and the chance of success has always broadly agreed with the 50% - 10%/level difference quoted in the manual.

Still, might be good to test it e.g. find a Yuan-ti Mage and attempt dispelling with 11th, 12th, 13th level characters.

This post has been edited by Raven: Oct 29 2008, 09:32 AM

[Kerkes]

I don't know what happened then, if an Inquisitor has a higher casting lvl, I always got "spell ineffective". I didn't cast anything else on him, since even if I wanted to, I couldn't since he starts off with imp.invisisbility and is therefore un-targetable by spells... I reloaded at least five times, never worked , then quit the game, and started a new one, without an inquisitor. I am a big fan of "remove magic", not "dispel" anyway. I hate that targeting micromanagement.