Going to try a run through IA5, Could use some starting pointers Options

[The Bigg]

So... I've decided to take the plunge and try a run through IA 5. Since I'm not the greatest tactician (for example, both topical fights of Ascension are over my level), I'd like to ask first-hand if I'm in for a pointless reload game or not.

I'm going for a party as follows:
- PC Vagrant
- Valygar
- Anomen
- Cernd
- Nalia
- Edwin (Minsc while waiting to be able to recruit Edwin)

Questions:
- Is the party good enough (with three weak people), or am I in for hopeless defeat, keeping in mind I'm not a strong tactician?
- I've seen a guy who was going to use Nalia as the main thief. How is that possible? Does that depend on making use of large amounts of Knock spells and avoiding/saving vs. the trap effects, or is there something else?
- If I edit Edwin to be a Sorceror, will this cause problems?
- Ditto for using the patch from Ease of Use to allow him in a good party.


Technicalities: my WeiDU.log is basically a by-the-book IA install (with the exception of WSM, which I cannot imagine being incompatible with anything as far as BG2 is concerned):

CODE

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]

// Baldurdash 1.12 non-WeiDU goes here.

~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Infinite Weapon, Potion and Ring/Amulet Stacking
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #3 // True Grand Mastery (extra half-attack, etc.) (Baldurdash)
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #4 // Shut Up "You Must Gather Your Party Before Venturing Forth"
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #6 // Wear Magical Armor AND Magic Rings (etc.)
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #9 // Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table, Saving Throws, Grand-Mastery, and Arcane, Divine Spell Progression (Blucher)
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #10 // XP Cap Remover
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #14 // Multiple Strongholds (Baldurdash)
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #15 // Bonus Merchants (Baldurdash)
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #17 // No Drow Avatars On Party In Underdark
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #18 // Imoen ToB Dialogue Fix
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #20 // Female Edwina
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #21 // Romance: Bug Fixes (required for later components).
~SETUP-EASE.TP2~ #0 #25 // Happy: NPCs won't fight with each other or leave the group.
~SETUP-IMPROVEDANVIL.TP2~ #0 #0 // Improved Anvil for SOA & TOB

Tp2 and pre-game suggestions:
- Can you upload (for example in the first post of the Bug Reports Thread) a .zip containing all hot-fixes? Currently, having to hunt them down via the Progress Report Thread looks somewhat cumbersome.
- REQUIRE_FILE ~data\25dialog.bif~ isn't user-friendly for those who have multiple installations and are using older WeiDUs. REQUIRE_PREDICATE (FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~mel01.cre~) has the same effect, but also works if you install IA on a multiple-installs environment.
- (minor) using AT_EXIT ~notepad "ImprovedAnvil\Improved Anvil_readme.txt"~ doesn't work on Mac, Linux, or with newer WeiDUs. AT_EXIT ~view ./"ImprovedAnvil\Improved Anvil_readme.txt"~ is fine in all of these situations. Moreover, it might be worth it to open the other document files as well.

I doubt I'll be able to report anything more useful than "that was too hard for me PLZ nerf them", but I'll try to say useful things at least

[Nazar]

Congrats on the leap Bigg, you will not be disappionted if you go into IA knowing you will have to change your standard tactics. There are ways to defeat all the monsters in the game it just takes patience to figure them out. I would suggest using auto pause for: spells, target destroyed and enemy sighted. Takes some getting use to but lets you manage the fights more efficently. I would also not use any scripts for you characters, I have found it is better to control all actions yourself.

As far as Edwin there are some items/quests that require a 20 rep so he is normally not suggested for a good party. However, I do not use the happy patch so maybe that would be ok...Sikret will know!

Finally just realize that there fights that will not be easy or do able until you reach a higher level or have better weapons.

I have really enjoyed this MOD and how easy it is to play with out bugs or crashes...oh and no CLUA....I dislike that a lot.

Regards Nazar

[rbeverjr]

I have used the Ease of Use happy patch and still Edwin may leave with the Rep at 20. The same does not happen when I use the G3 happy patch in non-IA games. I don't know if this reproducible "error" is just with my installs or with other people's too. I just wanted you to know of my results in this area as you asked.

If you are not a strong tactician, then I suggest that you start or normal difficulty and drop to easy if you have problems in a particular battle. Be sure to follow Raven's or Sikret's quest order so that you don't face the improved IA battles before you can handle them! Good luck.

[Raven]

So... I've decided to take the plunge and try a run through IA 5. Since I'm not the greatest tactician (for example, both topical fights of Ascension are over my level), I'd like to ask first-hand if I'm in for a pointless reload game or not.

Hmm, I'd say a certain amount of reloading is unavoidable for anyone playing IA the first time (whether they are a good tactician or not). I think the biggest thing is having time to play and accepting progress may not be too quick. I'd recommend following the quest order I put together.

I've said this many times but one thing that catches people out in IA is that you cannot simply go for a particular battle and assume that, because you have access to it, you should be able to finish it with the right tactics. There are battles which really cannot be won until chapter 6, unlike in the vanilla game. The fact that they are not winnable is not a reflection of a lack of tactical ability.

I'm going for a party as follows:
- PC Vagrant
- Valygar
- Anomen
- Cernd
- Nalia
- Edwin (Minsc while waiting to be able to recruit Edwin)

Questions:
- Is the party good enough (with three weak people), or am I in for hopeless defeat, keeping in mind I'm not a strong tactician?

I don't think you've got three weak people there, the party looks ok to me. I would say that Auramasters (like Cernd) are not the easiest class to use. I was actually planning to write some Auramaster tactics since it seems Cernd is not being picked by too many people. Maybe I'll get around to doing that in the next little while.

Personally I would recommend replacing Edwin with another fighter-type character, not because mages/sorcerers aren't powerful, just because they require more micromanagement (not what you want when starting out).

- I've seen a guy who was going to use Nalia as the main thief. How is that possible? Does that depend on making use of large amounts of Knock spells and avoiding/saving vs. the trap effects, or is there something else?

Knock may be necessary to open some locks, yes. Nalia's thief skills have been redistributed in IA to make her a little better at finding/disarming traps, though, so you might not need Knock after all.

[The Bigg]

Thanks for your advice. For now, I'll substitute Edwin for Minsc and keep Cernd. And I'll keep in mind about the suggested quest order and having patience

rbeverjr: After looking at the code, the patch applied by Ease of Use says "Good and Neutral characters never leave or complain" without saying anything about Evil characters due to a bug in the tp2. Older versions of Ease worked differently (they copied happy.2da to the override), and BG2_Tweaks doesn't contain that bug. If you want to fix this yourself, make sure you're using the latest version of Ease, substitute setup-ease.tp2 with the attached file, then reinstall Ease of Use. This will allow party members to complain, but not leave.

 Setup_Ease.tp2 ( 26.01k ) Number of downloads: 7


EDIT: Ease fix mentioned to JC.

This post has been edited by The Bigg: Apr 7 2008, 02:48 PM

[rbeverjr]

If you want to fix this yourself, make sure you're using the latest version of Ease, substitute setup-ease.tp2 with the attached file, then reinstall Ease of Use. This will allow party members to complain, but not leave.

 Setup_Ease.tp2 ( 26.01k ) Number of downloads: 7


EDIT: Ease fix mentioned to JC.

Thanks.

[The Bigg]

Wow, I didn't even finish the first level of Chateau Irenicus without realoading - Imoen stepped on a trap that triggered her "I'm hurt, must get away" dialogue.
Obviously, it's not relevant because IA doesn't appear to change CI at all. I found a Scroll of True Sight and one of Mislead on goblins, though - very nice.

EDIT: oh right, Ennelia is a female Human Vagrant, with legal 18/84 18 19 12 14 18.

EDIT 2: the summoned Driad script is very... annoying. It heals the caster even if he/she has only one hit point of damage, while ignoring other injured party members, and its close following behaviour is annoying as well. I liked the surprise of not being able of 'cheesily' casting Mass Heal, though. Perhaps the script could be improved as to heal also other party members and following the caster only loosely (range greater than 15 or something like that).

This post has been edited by The Bigg: Apr 7 2008, 04:37 PM

[Raven]

Something I didn't mention but that is good general advice is to distribute weapon prof points over several damage types. So that eventually all your fighty party members have points in crushing, slashing and piercing weapons. It's one of those things you may not realise until it is too late to do anything about, so good to bear in mind even at the early stage. So for your Vagrant I would recommend (say) Flails and Long Swords, and eventually Short Swords or Halberds. Sorry I forgot to say that before (since you've now already made your character).

[The Bigg]

I took Bastard Swords, Clubs and Daggers... but I should be able to get at least another specialization by level 12, so I can get a better specialization (or two proficiencies) before starting with actually modified battles. Should I redo or not? I've just emerged from CI, so I would only lose a couple of hours

Also, prices for wares... OMG!
Of course, this is the spirit of the mod, so I get what I was promised.

[Raven]

I took Bastard Swords, Clubs and Daggers... but I should be able to get at least another specialization by level 12, so I can get a better specialization (or two proficiencies) before starting with actually modified battles. Should I redo or not? I've just emerged from CI, so I would only lose a couple of hours

No I think it'll be fine.

[The Bigg]

OK. Many thanks.

[The Bigg]

Did Circus, flavor fights in the Slums, the easy quests in Umar Hills, and now I'm in the Druid Grove.

Is Valygar's weapon supposed to be able to kill trolls? Of course, I'm not lamenting, as this likely saved me a tedious job of memorizing only fire spells and resting after every fight, but it's supposed to deal bleeding damage, not acid or fire.

[Daulmakan]

Is Valygar's weapon supposed to be able to kill trolls? Of course, I'm not lamenting, as this likely saved me a tedious job of memorizing only fire spells and resting after every fight, but it's supposed to deal bleeding damage, not acid or fire.

It inflicts poison damage type, which downed trolls are not immune to in the vanilla game (don't know if IA changes something in this regard, though).

[The Bigg]

Regarding the slightly improved Dalok & co.: I was able to draw Dalok away by simply retreating. After that, I was able to rest and the shadow druid didn't re-cast his protections and/or cast Summon Mountain Bears, progressing instead to Call Lightning.

Faldorn: meh, I can't think of a way to do this with a low-level Vagrant and a plain quarter staff. I edited the DLG as it was prior to Multiple Strongholds and did it with Cernd. Wasn't too difficult (what with using Burning hands to interrupt her spells).

Windspear: the Ruhk walked to me (blue-circled), said his line ("Go my minions!") and then walked back to his ambush spot (still blue circled). When raiding his location, he becomes correctly red-circled though. Weird.

This post has been edited by The Bigg: Apr 7 2008, 10:20 PM

[lroumen]

If you want to redo the battle with Faldorn as a Vagrant, then I suggest to try and use Charm Animal to your advantage.

[Raven]

Regarding the slightly improved Dalok & co.: I was able to draw Dalok away by simply retreating. After that, I was able to rest and the shadow druid didn't re-cast his protections and/or cast Summon Mountain Bears, progressing instead to Call Lightning.

You'd be better trying to overcome such battles without running away, it's good practice for harder ones (when running away like that is not a possibility).

Faldorn: meh, I can't think of a way to do this with a low-level Vagrant and a plain quarter staff. I edited the DLG as it was prior to Multiple Strongholds and did it with Cernd. Wasn't too difficult (what with using Burning hands to interrupt her spells).

Yes it's hard with a vagrant. If you don't have Larloch's Minor Drain or Vampiric Touch as Bhaalspawn abilities (to interrupt a couple of her spells) it's very tough. As Iroumen says trying to charm the summoned animals with the innate Charm Animal ability is very useful. Since Multiple Strongholds is now recommended in the IA readme I should think about revising the recommended quest order since fighter-type protagonists will struggle against Faldorn.

EDIT: I can't separate Dalok from his companions in the v6 I'm testing so Sikret must have already fixed this.

This post has been edited by Raven: Apr 8 2008, 10:56 AM

[The Bigg]

(good) Vagrants only have a Larloch's and no Vampiric Touch. I was peculiarly unlucky with their save throws in all three tries, so I assumed they had 1 or somesuch (and Larloch's didn't manage to stop her casting, for some reason - Clerics tend to resist some spell interruption).
Also, looking at the post-multiple-strongholds code (cefaldor.dlg, state ), a custom (E.G. Player2...6) Druid can challenge Faldorn, but neither Cernd nor Jaheira can challenge her. I'll forward this to JC as well.

If you want to recreate the separating of Dalok, I had a summoned Dire Wolf (from the Nymph) rush in (though he died an instant after, so that must be inconsequential), then positioned myself in such a way that only Dalok and the Druid could see me (never activating the other fighter); the druid started casting Summon Animals, I retreated, Dalok followed me, but neither the Druid not the other Fighter did.
In one of my tries, I managed to Hold Person the Druid (after I was already reduced to bad health by Dalok and Bears); in another, I silenced everybody in both parties but the druid
Wasn´t Silence 9Ft. Radius party-friendly? Or is it changed by IA?

Also, after Windspear level 1 Nalia whined and I had to go to the Keep. the Killer spider concentrated his attacks on the Vagrant (who was immune to poison), rather than spreading his attacks to the other party members. The Whisperer Spider is spanking me around (even without the Greater Yuan-Ti coming to the aid), but I haven't tried buffing up yet. My Vagrand is level 9 and everybody else has similar levels; the best weapons I have are Blackblood on the Vagrant and the Cleric Staff on Nalia, everybody has at least a +2 weapon. Should I consider re-starting or I can manage with those levels?

This post has been edited by The Bigg: Apr 8 2008, 12:09 PM

[lroumen]

The silence has never been party friendly

I suggest not to pursue the opening of the Keep at your current level. The summoned Yuan-Ti Mage and the Spiders are really tough and are best fought later. Once you have been to the Keep I believe that Nalia will stop complaining a while, though I do not know how long that will last.
I suggest to revert to other quests (such as returning to Athkatla and finishing some quests around town such as the graveyard, the docks, the bridge district and perhaps the temple district).

In my own game I waylaid the Keep until I was level 12 I believe. I needed a few good casters that were able to buff me and disrupt the Yuan Ti.

This post has been edited by lroumen: Apr 8 2008, 02:00 PM

[The Bigg]

OK, thanks. Must have to do with the fact that I rest a lot.