IAv5 experiences Options

[lroumen]

I would like to forge a majority of good items, but in the end it all comes down to tactical play anyway. The only thing that you really need to find in items is +% resistances or immunities and +x enchantment for hitting certain foes.

Currently I've forged quite a few items already, but all of them have cost less than 50k each. The ones more expensive than that I could only afford after going through TOB or selling some good weapons that I will not be using with my characters in any part of the game. It's all part of the gameplay. You have to be picky about what you want to forge and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Sikret]

As for the upgrade prices, I don't have anything new to add to my previous comments. Shaitan and Iroumen also made good points.

About Amber golems, shadan wrote:

About amber golems: yes harder mobs should mean more XP AND better loot.

Two points:

1- Coin, Gem and Amber golems don't have any "loot" (in that sense). A Coin golem drops coins, because he is made of them (not because he carries money). Once he collapses, you can collect the coins. A Gem golem drops gems, not because he carries gems, but because he is made of gems. Similarly, Amber golems are made of amber and once they collapse, you can collect the chunk.

2- Even regardless of the first point, I don't agree with the generalization that (for any given x and y) if creature x is tougher than creature y (and gives more xp than y), he necessarily has to carry better loot (than y) as well.

[Baronius]

I can only second what Sikret has written.

These are so-called design decisions, they have nothing to do with the world of BG2, AD&D or anything similar. They don't follow from any well-defined thing. Of course, a mod maker can consider (or not consider) balance and other aspects when he makes the design decisions. There is no explicit "good" or "bad" decision, though later it may prove to be practical or impractical, favoured or disliked etc.

In my opinion, such simple, trivial rules ("the bigger fight/effort, the greater reward") shouldn't be followed in every case, because it can make a mod predictible and thus boring. Sometimes there should exceptions for such rules, to make the game more colourful. (For example, you don't get anything special for killing Demogorgon in BG2. Needless to say that starter players often suffer with that battle.)

Of course, once the player gets disappointed (e.g., he gets little reward or XP for slaying a dangerous monster), he or she will know what to expect next time (i.e. what to expect in the next battle with that creature type). This is why it's important to provide (positive) surprises as well, possibly with a p<1 probability (such as Item Randomizer).

[Shadan]

1- Coin, Gem and Amber golems don't have any "loot" (in that sense). A Coin golem drops coins, because he is made of them (not because he carries money). Once he collapses, you can collect the coins. A Gem golem drops gems, not because he carries gems, but because he is made of gems. Similarly, Amber golems are made of amber and once they collapse, you can collect the chunk.

Yes I know this. We call as "treasure" even the collected parts of the monsters. It is only just a gamebalance thing: chunk of amber should be a bit more expensive...

2- Even regardless of the first point, I don't agree with the generalization that (for any given x and y) if creature x is tougher than creature y (and gives more xp than y), he necessarily has to carry better loot (than y) as well.

I am a DnD gamemaster in PnP since almost 20 years. In my experience players are waiting more and/or better treasure from thougher enemies. Of course there can be a roleplaying or gamabalance exception (for example as Sikret wrote: golems don't have treasures), but in long term most GM should follow this rule. I didn't write it is a MUST rule.
Anyway my opinion is unchanged. As Baronius said, players shouldn't be too dissapointed, I think this is the goal of all GM. I am dissapointed when my Bag of Holdings are full with upgrade components and I cannot afford the upgrades cause of low money. Of course I am only ONE player, maybe others aren't dissapointed cause of this. Anyway I found at least a very very slight cure for money problem, but still it is a problem for me.
I consider this discussion over, since we cannot convince each other.

[Vardaman]

Yes I know this. We call as "treasure" even the collected parts of the monsters. It is only just a gamebalance thing: chunk of amber should be a bit more expensive...

And isn't it 200 lbs of Amber each drop?

I don't care that much about increasing the sell price but I thought it would be nice to see it go for ~1-2K. I was just disappointed when I went to sell my extra Amber chunks after forging Hammer of Thor and they were only 600 gp each.


One other thing that bugged me was during the last Vagrant quest:

SPOILER!

You have to give up a forged item that cost you at least 70K gp and all you get at the end of the quest is an Axe +4. I felt ripped off. I thought I'd at least be able to try to get my item back. Let me know if I completed to quest incorrectly and could have gotten my item back.

In advance, you're probably going to say blah blah roleplaying, blah blah you were ripped off because of the divine god's plan, blah blah swanmay's don't have any money, blah blah blah.

I am just complaining but it's frustrating to see money be so tight in this v5 game (compared to 4.3) when most item upgrade costs exactly doubled while many were nerfed in power or usability.

[Sikret]

And isn't it 200 lbs of Amber each drop?

What's the price of a pound of amber in your opinion (compared to gold)?

One other thing that bugged me was during the last Vagrant quest

How was the quest regardless of its final reward? Reply in the relevant topic, please.

As for the reward:
SPOILER!

LZJ had also complained that the final reward was a bit less than he had anticipated (compared to the sacrifice he had to made). The xp you gain during the quest, however, compensates it to some considerable extent, doesn't it? You lose a powerful item, but gain another powerful item plus some xp, a couple of relatively rare scrolls and some money (not to mention the satisfaction of playing the quest). Was that too bad?

Edited for typos

This post has been edited by Sikret: Feb 22 2008, 03:33 PM

[rbeverjr]

I am only ONE player, maybe others aren't dissapointed cause of this. Anyway I found at least a very very slight cure for money problem.

Don't feel to lonesome. I haven't commented simply because I have not progressed far enough in the game to make a valid conclusion. I'd like to be able to forge many of the items that Sikret has made, but don't feel the need to make all of them or almost all of them. And some day, I would love to be able to do it thetruth-style - without using any at all.

I do feel like money is tight early on if I want to make any items. In particular, +3 weapons are needed. Sikret himself has commented that money is tight several times in his walkthrough, and the spending of the money must be carefully considered. That's OK.

One thing that I already know that I would like more of is dropped healing potions. However, there's some guy who posted that he is selling healing potions. I guess I should stop using healing potions after a battle. Instead rest and pray for healing spells, heal, and rest again, but that is such a micromanagement drag to me...

More money would certainly be useful for those who want to try a no-reload game too.

However, as of right now, I am not really expressing a concrete opinion that there should be more money or that the present money level is just right, because I have not progressed far enough into the game to know.

[coaster]

Don't you basically get infinite gold if you've completed the fighter/thieves/bard strongholds? [unfortunately unless you have the multiple strongholds fix, ranger types wouldn't have access to these supplies of funds].

Of course this might be considered an exploit.

[Shadan]

Hmm, seems I am in big trouble. I cannot finish bard and ranger stronghold it seems.
Bard SH: The performance should start but 1-2 weeks passed and Higgold still says it will be on next evening. Higgold is on both level of the inn. And I traveled between areas alot, no messenger and Higgold still say his stupid "next evening".
Ranger SH: I did 1st quest, now comes the Orcs, but Delon didn't appeared at all within several weeks. My cabin is not lost. Minister Lloyd is friendly, but he doesn't give the new quest. I spent 2-3 weeks with traveling, and nothing.

Any idea or suggestion?

Maybe because I started the elven city SH events don't continue? I summoned spirit in elven city, so only Tree of Life and Hell left, but I did Roenall in fighter SH and ranger SH 1st quest after this. But no new event in bard and ranger SH for weeks...

This post has been edited by shadan: Feb 22 2008, 11:39 PM

[Sikret]

My cabin is not lost. Minister Lloyd is friendly, but he doesn't give the new quest. I spent 2-3 weeks with traveling, and nothing.

Any idea or suggestion?

Since you have not lost your cabin yet, there is still hope for you to find Delon. As I wrote previously, he sometimes appears offscreen in a bad way. In some areas, he may spawn offscreen somewhere in which he can't see you to initiate dialogue. That's why you should constantly keep an open eye for him. For example, in the main (wilderness) area outside Watcher's Keep, there is the danger that he might have spawned upstairs while your party was actually downstairs (you might have exited the WK through one of the side doors).

Go and check that area as well as the underdark exit and see if you can find Delon or not.

[Shadan]

Thanks Sikret. It seems it was easier to start again from a bit old save before elven city. it seems both bard and ranger SH quests continue flawlessly.

[Sikret]

Ok, as for the money problem, I applied some changes (in v6) to help players earn a bit more money (but a bit less xp) after winning some particular battles.

I also made a few more items sellable. Having a bag of holding full of gray and unsellable items in the shops is indeed frustrating specially when you know that most of those items are not really critical quest-related items and they should not have been unsellable in the first place even in the vanilla game.

I hope you will find these changes helpful and satisfying in v6.

[Shadan]

Good news, thanks Sikret. I especially greet the XP lowering in certain battles.

[Shadan]

As I see not too many new posts on this forum nowadays. It seems even Sikret are not playing or he just doesn't refresh his diary.
My reports is missing nowdays, since I had to stop BG2. I did all quests and 2 levels in WK. Orcus was a very very good fight. Only Twisted Rune left. I tried it several times, but failed, and nowadays I don't have time for so long battle... I managed to kill the 1st lich, the vampire and the warrior very fast, my protagonist can survive the double-length Time Stop, but I don't know what can I do with that beholder, he always dispel all of my spells and golems or the main lich always kill 1-2 of my chars. I cannot touch 2nd lich also till his protections run out since I cannot target him due to Invis. Dead character means game over for me. I hope I can do some tries later, when I will have more times. I could greet any hints about this fight, beholder or 2nd lich.

[Raven]

As I see not too many new posts on this forum nowadays. It seems even Sikret are not playing or he just doesn't refresh his diary.

He probably has not had time to play because he has been working on the newest version of the mod (which is in the process of being tested). I think he is very busy in RL at the moment too.

I cannot touch 2nd lich also till his protections run out since I cannot target him due to Invis. Dead character means game over for me. I hope I can do some tries later, when I will have more times. I could greet any hints about this fight, beholder or 2nd lich.

Layene is not a lich, she's a pretty ordinary human. The thing is that she is very high level, and she has the Staff of the Magi and is not afraid to use it! If you can take out Shangalar, the fighter and the vampire quickly, I would recommend next focussing all your fighters on the Beholder; it takes a long time to kill and its abilities are very dangerous as I'm sure you know. Layene will almost certainly be the last to fall. Are you using the powerful IA summons (Greater Djinni, Elite Berserker, Improved Spider Figurine)? They are very important in this sort of fight.

[Shadan]

The berserek, 2 Greater Swanmays, Noble Spider and Efreeti was summoned at start, I don't have Greater Djinni yet. And yes, I supposed to kill beholder as next, just simply without buffs those golems or Layene's contringenced spells always kill someones, and I am not able to burn down beholder so fast... Anyway, I will try it again in some weeks, or maybe 1-2 months, when I will have more time. As far as I remember this fight was not easy in v4.2, but now much harder than it was before.

[Shadan]

I finished Twisted Rune. It was hardest fight for me in SoA.
I did WK lvl 3 also, and haven't found the new quest Clash of powers. I followed the old rute. I am unsure if the new quest were the enmitz between Karashur and Tahazzar... The tanarri attacked me after I asked about Blood War. When I reached the baatezu, he accepted thei tanarri's heart, after this I attacked and killed him. Was this the new quest, or did I miss it?

[Vardaman]

I finished Twisted Rune. It was hardest fight for me in SoA.
I did WK lvl 3 also, and haven't found the new quest Clash of powers. I followed the old rute. I am unsure if the new quest were the enmitz between Karashur and Tahazzar... The tanarri attacked me after I asked about Blood War. When I reached the baatezu, he accepted thei tanarri's heart, after this I attacked and killed him. Was this the new quest, or did I miss it?

You should run into the Clash of Powers fight in SPOILER!

Yakman's tent room. You don't get the golden scepter automatically anymore, you have to complete the new quest inorder to get it and progress to the next floor. You also have to be a minimum level to start the new quest.

The conflict between Karashur and Tahazzar is from vanilla TOB. If you're evil, I think you get a chance to side with one or the other. If you're good, you don't but you can still get quest XP if you bring one's heart to the other.

[Shadan]

I know there is a bug regarding Spell Shield and RRR, but at Gromnir I tried to bring down SI: Abj. from those 2 mages, and sadly after more than 10 reloads, always at least 5-6 RRR casted on same mage (2 times I casted 12 of them), and no success. According to their spells, 3 RRR would be needed. Is it local problem at me, or someone else encountered it also.

[Raven]

Pretty sure that's the usual (unfixable) Spell Shield bug, I'm afraid. Sikret's away for a few days, hopefully he can confirm that this is the case. He's already changed most enemies so they don't cast it any more (many more did in previous versions of the mod). Possibly he meant to change Gromnir's mages too I'm not sure.