While we are waiting Options

[Sikret]

The +4 bonuses are written in Daystar's description in THAC0 and Damage sections under the statistics title (not in the sword's name). But yes, there are indeed inconsistencies in the vanilla game in this respect. The best example is the Kondar sword (Bastard sword +1, +3 vs. Shapeshifters) which has +1 enchantment to determine what it can hit (hence, I didn't need to modify it ).

[aVENGER]

In IA it's the other way round. All such weapons have the +x enchantment level to determine what it can hit and what it can't. The +y bonus only applies to THAC0 and damage when it hits that specific creature type z.

I've stuck with this design philosophy for the RR items as well. For example, there's a dagger which counts as +4 to hit and damage vs. Trolls, but its enchantment level remains at +2 nonetheless.

Personally, I think it works better this way because some powerful creatures require highly enchanted weapons to hit (i.e. Adamantine Golems, Kangaxx, the Demon Lord...etc.) and I didn't want to grant that ability to many weapons, especially not the ones which are readily available for purchase at the start of the game. Thus, most powerful weapon which RR introduces is a +4 short sword (the Silent Death) and that is only available in Chapter 6.

[lroumen]

I agree.

When I play IA v5 I intend to shop at the Underrepresented items, but many of them are +4 or +5 enchantmented and that's quite unnecessary. I'll only buy a couple of items that aren't overpowered to such extent. Otherwise that game just becomes too easy.

This post has been edited by lroumen: Oct 5 2007, 05:39 PM

[Sikret]

I finally made a decision (I've been thinking about 2 weeks now).

My party involves some subs in case I feel like I want to play one or the other(s). I added them in the order of expected appearance into the party.
Generally: 1 druid protagonist (melee and ranged), 2 fighters, 2 mages, 1 cleric (though of course I should write 2.5 fighters etc)

Don't you want to play any of the two expanded strongholds? The expanded ranger stronghold (in particular) has two big quests which you shouldn't miss.

You can have your female avenger druid as a custom NPC. There is no need to have her as the protagonist. I will extend the druid stronghold in IA v6. So, I suggest that you postpone playing a druid protagonist to that time.

Just my thoughts.

[lroumen]

There are plenty of quests in the game. I think I can miss a few of the stronghold ones. Besides, I don't like NPCs that say nothing and have no interactions with other NPCs (i.e. a multiplayer party).

[Sikret]

There are plenty of quests in the game. I think I can miss a few of the stronghold ones. Besides, I don't like NPCs that say nothing and have no interactions with other NPCs (i.e. a multiplayer party).

I see. Well, it's really upto you to decide whether you want to see more new quests in the game or you prefer to read one additional NPC's same repetitive banters and interjections for your 100th time and over again.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Oct 7 2007, 02:18 PM

[lroumen]

I like interjections , besides, I'm going to have some NPC combinations which I've never had before.

[Sikret]

One custom NPC (the druid you want) occupies only one single NPC slot in your party. So, you will only lose the banters and interjections of one NPC, not more.

The question thus would be, is it a good choice to miss a large amount of new content in the game just for the repetitive banters of one single NPC? As I said the decision is yours to make. I'm just drawing your attention to other possibilities and choices you have in order to see more new content while playing the mod.

[DavidW]

Actually it's a slightly bigger reduction than it seems.

5 NPCs --> 10 lots of banter
4 NPCs --> 6 lots of banter

(i.e. a 40% reduction in banters, and a 20% reduction in interjections)

I have no idea whether that's overall a good idea, but the mathematician in me couldn't resist pointing it out.

[lroumen]

Well to be honest, I've played enough wizards in the game so I don't feel like replaying another one of them again anytime soon.

I have taken a look at the Vagrant kit and at first glance it looked quite good and I was thinking of replaying a ranger. On second glance I find it much too powerful for my first run through IA since v2. It has many more bonuses than any other class except the monk, but the monk has many cons which the vagrant doesn't really seem to have.
- melee capabilities of a warrior (2 stars or 5 stars is not a shocking difference in the game)
- elemental immunities of a druid (even better than a druid and much earlier than a druid too)
- some other immunities and save bonuses (that's quite okay, comes at the same time for monks for instance)
- very powerful summoning as innates rather than spells (i.e. no spellbook slots need to be sacrificed, this is really too good)

The cons are not really cons.
- charisma minimum is not a restriction (for instance, a roll of 5 is increased to 12, winning 7 points on the whole roll. It's for instance easy to roll a 90+ stats paladin due to his many minimum requirements and it's much harder to roll an 85+ fighter)
- no dualclassing... since clerics can only use blunt weapons this means you can only use hammers, maces, flails and the likes of it. The problem however, is that the main feature of Ia v4/5 is the forging of Judgement Day for good aligned single class protagonist warriors, so if you're ranger primary who is best built around melee.... there is not really a reason to dual-class and it's quite smart to keep it a normal ranger so you can use Judgement Day yourself. Of course you can give it to Mazzy or Keldorn, but it's still the protagonist that you'll want to keep an eye out, so the bonuses of the sword will probably best suit the vagrant.
- restriction to studded leather... this is how I always played rangers, since with armor higher than studded you cannot use thieving skills and rangers excel in stealth already very early on in the game. There are some nice ranger stealth armors out there anyway, so that's not really a bad thing.


I think I will play IAv5 as a Vagrant, but only after my first run through with an avenger. If I play Vagrant I think I might even try it soloing or with only one mage party member (Aerie -> Imoen for instance). I've never played a primary druid before and I'd like to try out the Avenger now and see how well it functions. I've played with Cernd as a werewolf of course and I know the strength of the melee capabilities of druid spells using Jaheira a bunch of times. I think I am forced to allow it to get proficiencies faster though so I can get 1 star in all primary weapons so I can try them all out once I find them.

I know that exporting a multiplayer game to singleplayer only renders 2 characters speechless. I just like having my characters with something to say, even if I've seen it plenty of times before. There's also some combinations I haven't used yet, so that may give me some fun talks in between the adventuring and in between the difficult battles. I don't play BG solely for the strategic fights, I like the whole storyline and interjections very much (and for such reason I've helped with some NPC projects). I could always make an Avenger NPC mod though.

[Sikret]

Ok, play the game the way you enjoy it most, Iroumen! I just wanted to let you know that for your first IA v5 run-through, you will miss a large amount of new content if you play with a druid protagonist.

As for the vagrant being overpowered or not, this was one of my main concerns during the testing process. I asked three of my best testers to play the whole game with a vagrant and all three reported that the kit is not overpowered.

The minimum charisma requirement is actually a serious disadvantage for the kit, because it will deprive the player from mini-maxing his stats to gain high scores in all melee-related attributes. It's actually extremely difficult to make a vagrant with excellent stats unless you just sit there and re-roll the whole day and night.

Have fun!

[lroumen]

I don't really see a problem for min/maxing a ranger/vagrant.

Ranger requirements are 13/13/14/3/14/3 (iesdp: abclasrq, 3 comes from race minimum). To have enough points to max the primary stats above 13 or 14 you need to get an 18 in intelligence for your roll (may take 30 seconds or something to roll that). The 18-3=15 points from intelligence can be distributed to str/dex/con for a final score of 18/18/19/3/14/3. Since you always have some extra points in the other stats if you roll 18 for intelligence (say you roll 14 dex and 7 cha as well = 5 points), you can probably have intelligence around 8-9 or even higher (18/18/19/9/14/3).

A vagrant would be 13/13/14/3/14/12 requirements and with a roll of 18 intelligence, the points can be distributed to 18/18/19/3/14/12. It looks much better than having 2 stats set to 3. The same thing applies as above, that if you have 14 dex and 7 cha with 18 int, then the vagrant can have 18/18/19/8/14/12, or distribute it to wisdom and end up with 18/18/19/4/18/12.

Not really that hard. I usually roll paladins (min is 12/3/9/3/13/17, so only look at dex>15 and int>15 during rolling) and rangers to 90+ points within a minute if I only look at the lowest minimum scores. Then you can use that to distribute all those points to other stats.


I think that if the minimum requirements for str/dex/con are lower than 13/13/14 for a vagrant (put the minimum for vagrants at 12/9/9/0/14/12 for instance), then the min/maxing is more difficult because you also need to get lucky rolls for these three stats to offset the low base stats because you cannot make that up with only a roll of 18 in charisma.



As you can see I know how to get my scores maxed easily in BG . Generally though, I only max out dexterity and my primary casting requirement. The other stats are not that important since there are spells and enhancing gear you can pick up along the way. If I am to make a vagrant the scores will likely be 17/18/16/9/14/12 or something alike.

I will play IAv5 with a lot of enjoyment I'm sure. I don't really mind that I'm missing a few quests here or there, there is probably plenty of new content since I played v2, so I'm in for enough surprises along the way. I will hardly notice that I cannot forge Judgement Day on this first run through. I will just do so in the next one .

[Sikret]

A vagrant would be 13/13/14/3/14/12 requirements and with a roll of 18 intelligence, the points can be distributed to 18/18/19/3/14/12.

Yes, but only if you are ready to have a protagonist with 3 intelligence, which means that the first mindflayer you meet will send you to oblivion! (Not to mention that there is a new monster in one of the quests of the expanded ranger stronghold who drains intelligence mercilessly.)

Keeping intelligence at a minimum of 10, I re-rolled 300 times and failed to make a vagrant with excellent stats (while I can do this easily with other rangers by decreasing their charisma).

[lroumen]

Well, you only need some protection from normal weapons to avoid the mind flayer drain from happening, but it's not available to Vagrants. Then again, you're not going to meet that many mind flayers, and otherwise you can still conjure some monsters to distract them from killing you. Oh well, none of that to worry about just yet. The game hasn't started yet.

It's a pity that low intelligence does not affect the conversation options you can take as it's implemented in Fallout for instance. There a low intelligence would render your speech to: "aarghh.. uuuuuuh....... hum, hum.."

[Sikret]

Well, you only need some protection from normal weapons to avoid the mind flayer drain from happening, but it's not available to Vagrants.

Actually, you at least need "Mantle" to be protected from the mindflayers' attacks in the vanilla game. In IA, you require "Improved Mantle".

This post has been edited by Sikret: Oct 30 2007, 02:38 PM

[muddymissfit]

Well after taking a gander at the new level progression tables , the new item restriction and the fact that i've yet to play past chapter 3 in this mod , I decided to take my triple class + sk-ed kits type tutu character for a spin - Berserker , Mage , Cleric of Lathander - to be precise

Added to that was a multiplayer created npc - a tiefling named Anna - a Bezerker swashi duel class

bio ware Npc's were -

Aerie- sk'd into a pure class wild mage

Anomen - as he is - proficiencies switched around to more usable gear though

Minsc - sk'd into a cavalier ( because i can )

Haer'Dalis- His improved bard armour and high levels make him priceless as a spell spammer / dispeller

I am currently at round about 5 million exp point party , did every quest i could lay my greedy leetle paws on ( im an exp. slattern i must confess ) - including all strongholds and the expanded mage stronghold have finished almost everything in chapter 6 , just need to to the post FK quests (the rune assassin army battle was amazing - very well done sir )

and then watchers keep , then its off to the elf city to have quite word with a particular mage who has been causing a bit of bother it seems

but im fairly shocked at just how well this all works together , the fights are tough , level is a factor but you still need to think and thats what im really enjoying - that and the intense satisfaction that comes with taking out the same berks who annihilated you the first time you met them ( crooked crane lich comes to mind )

as this is my first real tactical mod , the learning curve has been steep , but once you crack the "rhythm" of the encounters , your in good stead

cant wait to see what nasty surprises are still in store

come version 5 , im going to be taking a vagrant pc ( judging from the quality of the new quests , this is way too good to pass up the new content )

a npc risk breaker ( depending on what the final kit is like though )

Nalia - as wild mage

Imoen

Cernd - Auramasters are quite potent

either a multi / dual class character to be named later - depends on the dynamics of the existing party - might even go with Haer'Dalis again - just have to play and see how it all works out

thanks again for all the hard work Sikret and co.

[Sikret]

Thanks for the kind words, muddymissfit!

the rune assassin army battle was amazing - very well done sir

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Did you know that the full story of these rune assassins will only be revealed if you are a ranger? It's not literally part of the expanded ranger stronghold, but it has relations with 'The Mystery of the Shimmering Light' quest. If you are a ranger, the two quests will merge together. I say this for your next run-through in which you decide to have a vagrant protagonist. (EDIT: the mentioned relation between the two quests is not something new; it already existed since IA v4.0)

come version 5 , im going to be taking a vagrant pc ( judging from the quality of the new quests , this is way too good to pass up the new content )

Yes, a vagrant protagonist is simply the best choice for those who want to see and play more new quests.

Cernd - Auramasters are quite potent

Without question!

Auramaster's immunity to silence will prove itself to be really important in IA v5.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Sikret: Nov 13 2007, 07:30 PM