Players! You are not real!, Another disgusting lie Options

[lroumen]

Your interactions have degenerated to the "freakshow" level.

Wanna see real freakshow? Then read last pages of this thread

Gee... they took it far. I guess bad PR is still PR.

[SimDing0]

While that thread certainly is a complete circus at this stage, in the interests of averting World War III, I feel compelled to point out that it's just a forum thread, not some sort of G3 policy summit, and the various people administering liberal doses of the f-word are probably not terribly representative of the G3 modders. If you look back, it's mostly "CamDawg asks everyone to play nice in the sandbox and everyone else continues swearing unaccountably" rather than "CamDawg demonstrates his inability to have productive dialogue with anybody". (On which note, I'm not really a G3 modder either, so if you are of the opinion that God kills a kitten every time I post, then that's not entirely his fault either.)

...and breathe out, Ding0!

[berelinde]

Heh. I'm sorry my quest is too small for you.

Is that what I said? Is that what you think I was saying? Do you really think my point was such a stretch?

It's no wonder why so many of you modders are seemingly incapable of having a productive dialogue with one another (and I'm not just talking about G3 modders here). Your interactions have degenerated to the "freakshow" level.

Er, Marceror, you are going a bit far, here. SimDingO displays his usual sense of irony, and you launch an attack on G3 modders? While he does contribute to some G3 projects, Quest Pack is actually hosted at PPG. (And it isn't the size of the quest, it's the entertainment value. My favorite component of Quest Pack is "Saving Sanik," and that whole sequence takes what? 30 seconds? But that is glaringly off topic, so I'm letting it drop.)

But this is about IA players, not about Quest Pack. I do not think that the majority of the folks who read that thread honestly believe that folks at IA aren't real.

Now that we have established that IA players are living, breathing, *thinking* human beings, maybe you can read what SimDingO *actually wrote.* He isn't attacking you. He isn't attacking IA. He isn't saying you aren't real. So what has that got do with communication between modders?

Acutally, SimDingO has a point in the thread above. G3 modders have generally stayed out of the discussion once the original poster's questions were answered, and have certainly not indulged in any of the swearing. Those were folks from elsewhere. Some of them were even from here! Anyway, CD closed the sandbox until the kids can play nice.

This post has been edited by berelinde: Sep 14 2007, 04:55 PM

[Marceror]

@SimDing0

Hey, it's not that I lack a sense of humor. It's just that this situation stopped being funny a long time ago.

This post has been edited by Marceror: Sep 14 2007, 06:01 PM

[SimDing0]

I never stop being funny.

[Marceror]

I never stop being funny.

In your own mind, at least! Oops, I didn't say that out loud did I??


@berelinde

Er, Marceror, you are going a bit far, here. SimDingO displays his usual sense of irony, and you launch an attack on G3 modders? While he does contribute to some G3 projects, Quest Pack is actually hosted at PPG. (And it isn't the size of the quest, it's the entertainment value. My favorite component of Quest Pack is "Saving Sanik," and that whole sequence takes what? 30 seconds? But that is glaringly off topic, so I'm letting it drop.)

First off, I don’t feel that I launched an attack against anyone. And if I did, it certainly wasn’t directed at the “G3 modders.” Rather, my comments were directed at a vocal core of BG2 modders, who as far as I know represent a variety of different modding communities, and who have been involved in this same kind of bickering for several years.

My comment about Questpack wasn’t meant to tear that mod down. I don’t believe that mod tries to be an absolute game changer, like IA clearly does. From what I recall, Questpack attempts to blend in with the vanilla game as much as possible. So my comment that it doesn’t have a dramatic impact on gameplay is not an insult at all. It’s probably something more akin to a compliment. I just made a matter of fact observation as to why IA is likely a greater source of attention (positive and negative) than one of Questpack’s features. No attack. No insult. Just making a point to address “the bigg’s” amazement that IA receives such an abundance of positive feedback (there’s plenty of negative to go with it). I typically play BG2 with Questpack installed, so I’m certainly not bashing.

But this is about IA players, not about Quest Pack. I do not think that the majority of the folks who read that thread honestly believe that folks at IA aren't real.

While I’ve played through IA 4.2, and enjoyed it, I haven’t joined any special club or secret society related to this mod. Sure, you can call me an IA player, based on the fact that I’ve played it. But I don’t declare that I’m on anyone’s “side” in these kinds of discussions. I’m just a BG2 fan who never ceases to be amazed at how incapable much of the BG2 modding community seems to be at working out their differences. The road to diplomacy is there. But no one seems to care or be interested.

Now that we have established that IA players are living, breathing, *thinking* human beings, maybe you can read what SimDingO *actually wrote.* He isn't attacking you. He isn't attacking IA. He isn't saying you aren't real. So what has that got do with communication between modders?

I don’t feel that I’m being attacked in the slightest by SimDing0. I “get” his sarcasm. Again, my comments aren’t prompted only by this particular discussion. I’m commenting on the years of bickering that has gone on between a lot these individuals, which has everything to do with communication between modders.

Guys like SimDing0 contribute by putting the bait out there, because he knows others will be compelled to chomp on that bait, as they always do. I’m sure he gets an absolute rise out of that. And before you know it, there’s a multi-thousand word response out there picking his post apart. And it just goes downhill from there. Rinse and repeat every couple of months, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

Acutally, SimDingO has a point in the thread above. G3 modders have generally stayed out of the discussion once the original poster's questions were answered, and have certainly not indulged in any of the swearing. Those were folks from elsewhere. Some of them were even from here! Anyway, CD closed the sandbox until the kids can play nice.

Again, I’m not at all attacking G3 modders, or necessarily making a statement about one BG2 modding community over another. My comments are directed toward the individuals who’ve been keeping the freak show going for years, regardless of what modding community(ies) they claim to belong to.

This stuff is entertaining, I will give you that.

This post has been edited by Marceror: Sep 14 2007, 07:00 PM

[SimDing0]

Guys like SimDing0 contribute by putting the bait out there, because he knows others will be compelled to chomp on that bait, as they always do. I’m sure he gets an absolute rise out of that.

I don't know what bait you think I'm putting out, but any posts I make certainly aren't to justify bulk purchasing of man-sized tissues. I'm very much a publicity machine, and any time I show up and talk about Improved Anvil, it's usually to stem the widespread uninstalling of mods by terrified users because threads have been started with quotes like:

1- Improved Anvil is the only bugfree big mod.

[Sikret]

Improved Anvil is the only bugfree big mod.

I have noticed that some people (either deliberately or unwillingly) drop the word "big" from the abovementioned sentence (or just don't pay the required attention to it) when they want to quote from my initial post in this thread.

Of course, there are many small or medium size mods out there which have critical bugs as well (Unfinished Business comes to mind), but my sentence didn't imply that I was claiming that IA is the only bugfree mod. It's just a comparison between truly big mods. Maintaining a bugfree big mod is a difficult task and IA has been successfully maintained. (I also admit that my information about the degree of bugfreeness of NEJ2 is very limited. So, it's probable that NEJ2 also satisfies the bugfreeness criteria if its installation instructions are followed precisely by the player.)

I'm sure that others can also give us a list of mods which are not bugged in their opinions, but note that I'm just talking about very big mods in the scales of IA or NEJ2. So, please don't mention any small or medium size mods here (and by size, I'm not referring to the Mega Bytes of the download package, but to the volume and nature of changes the mod applies to the game.) Just check IA's forum for bug reports and you will be amazed to see that despite the huge content of the mod, there are very few bug reports and most of the reports are either about spelling typos or are not related to IA at all. Now compare it with the many bug reports you see on some other mods' forums (even mods which are much smaller than IA) and you will see my point.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Sep 15 2007, 06:37 AM

[Sikret]

Also, it's not a healthy argumentation style to say whatever false things you want and then when you are refuted or disproved you just reply that you were joking or you were funny. Such false information may do their harm despite your later comments of being funny.

For example, SimDing writes:

Sikret now wants it placed in EVERY category on the modlist. (I'm not joking about this.)

As you see, he is even emphasizing that he is not joking (link).

Baronius disproved the claim (link):

I see 12 categories in the BG2 section (and there are many more in the whole modlist), and Sikret asked it to be added to 5.

Now, just read SimDing's reply after being refuted (link):

I think you're dragging this one way too far. I've also claimed that I run a dating agency for modders and that England's national sport is football violence.

I have many similar examples to offer, but I don't think that it is worth the time. I prefer to spend my time preparing the mod's next release instead. The main point in all of them is the same: You misinform readers with something which was not initially supposed to be a joke. Later, when you are refuted, you claim that you were joking. These sort of unhealthy methods are not approved by any reasonable person.

[SimDing0]

I'm not sure I'd really consider IA a big mod. (Incidentally, I think it's very much a nature-of-content thing. Experience dictates that there is nothing harder in this sort of game development that debugging non-linear quests on a platform of somebody else's code (BG2), while it's relatively hard to work game-breaking bugs into AI. I'm not trying to take anything away from your testing process--I'm sure you do a very thorough job--I'm just saying.)

And I'm fairly sure "EVERY" was exaggeration for effect, because I wrote it.

This post has been edited by SimDing0: Sep 15 2007, 12:47 PM

[Sikret]

Let's give it a rest, everyone. I allowed SimDing to be the last one who posts in this thread. I'll close the topic if noone has any objections.

[Baronius]

I don't want to revive the topic or make any strain, but I've just noticed this:

G3 modders have generally stayed out of the discussion once the original poster's questions were answered, and have certainly not indulged in any of the swearing. Those were folks from elsewhere. Some of them were even from here!

A lie again! None of the posts of swearing style imply there that their authors are modders/members of BWL.

It isn't our problem that if certain G3 and PPG modders (such as berelinde or CamDawg) never seem to distance themselves from troublemaker morons and swearing trolls, then some people will believe they support such an attitude -- no matter how they wash their hands and keep saying "I stayed out of it". Topic closed.

[Sikret]

Well, if every time we notice a new lie we re-open this topic, we will probably need to re-open it almost everyday!

For example, berelinde has claimed that some of her posts to IA forum have been deleted in the past, which is plain falsehood. None of her posts have ever been deleted by me. (Of ocurse, if she sends trolling/insulting/inappropriate posts in the future, I will delete them; but this has never happened in the past)

As for why some people deliberately say false things (things which are not true and they know that they are not true), it can be an interesting topic of discussion for psychologists (but this board is not a psychology discussion forum)

This thread was originally about the hilarious claim that players of IA are not real! I think the best and the most on-topic reply sent to this topic was Spike's post.

As for other questions people may have in mind, I invite them to check the mod's F.A.Q. thread frequently. So, let's close this topic and let it remain closed. Thank you very much.

*Edited for a typo in the last paragraph (the term 'closed' was typed 'close')

This post has been edited by Sikret: Sep 26 2007, 09:44 AM

[Baronius]

Well, if every time we notice a new lie we re-open this topic, we will probably need to re-open it almost everyday!

That's very true, Sikret! Fortunately, IA's players aren't misled by these statements (lies) any longer.

(By the way, I can easily reply in these topics, because I don't have to reopen them: the CLOSED icon appears as a button for me, and functions as REPLY. )

None of her posts have ever been deleted by me.

I remember she had one or more posts in a topic which was beset by trolls, and IA was attacked excessively. I decided to remove that topic, and any topics which were opened by the attackers who were saying "the other topic disappeared". I clearly asked them to stop their trolling, swearing and harassment, yet they kept reopening topics. Some of the user accounts even were blocked for a few hours, as there was no other way (except closing whole BWL forum, which would have been very unpleasant.) So it's possible that one or more of her posts were deleted by me, because she refused to complete the request about taking a break in posting until trolls are gone.

Nonetheless, I think your FAQ summarizes everything very well, and there is no need to discuss this issue any longer.