Players! You are not real!, Another disgusting lie Options

[Sikret]

While I understand that these people are really envious of Improved Anvil's quality and popularity, I really didn't expect them to go so far to write such disgusting lies:

He writes:

whereas this can't be proven unless I had access to the BWL database (to cross-check IPs), I strongly suspect that the fanbase is at least partially astroturfed.

Hilarious!

All of the people who have sent praising post about IA are known people who have used the same nicknames in all forums for years (see Sorcerer's place for example).

He continues:

As a semi-proof, you don't see people posting praise this often at no other mod forum.

Well, that's because:

1- Improved Anvil is the only bugfree big mod.
2- Improved Anvil adds so many new quests and new content to the game.
3- Improved Anvil has high quality (= no bugs, no CTDs, good tactical challenges, new encounters, new monsters, expanded strongholds, Item randomizer and so on)

Instead of deducing the natural consequence that players really like IA, the envious modder has decided to conclude that these posters are not real (i.e. it is me who is posting here with different nicknames to praise my own mod!!)

He also claims that we delete criticisms which is another lie. We have only deleted insulting or trolling posts in the past. Constructive and polite criticisms have never been deleted; some of the topics (a minority of them not all of them) have been closed after a while but none of them have been deleted (even a degree of rudeness has been tolerated and even though some posts have been tactless and insulting enough to deserve being deleted, we kept them).

Where is the modding community going to?

My suggestion to them is to make a better mod than IA if they can. In that case, players will send praising posts to their forums. No more disgusting lies and accusations please. I am fed up with such lies.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Sep 4 2007, 08:57 AM

[Shadan]

Agree Sikret. I am a hungarian player, not your another nick, that is out of question. I like IA (there are some points where I disagree with you, but this is the life, we are not the same), and I very appreciate if I have a problem I can get answer, help here from you or from other players.

All in all, you and all testers do great job! I wish if there could be similar modder team to another semiold RPGs, like wizardry 8., Icewind Dale 2., NWN etc.

This post has been edited by shadan: Sep 4 2007, 10:44 AM

[coaster]

TBH I am uncomfortable with this kind of inter-forum bitchiness. I have posted in the G3 thread with my opinions. I have to say that for similar reasons I didn't particularly like the thread on the "dreaded" G3 fixpack in this forum, where some criticisms went beyond the actual changes made by the mod and began discussing modders' attitudes.

I enjoy both G3 and BWL mods. If you don't like a mod don't play it, instead of flaming it. If mod A is incompatible with mod B, then don't install mod A/B. It's not rocket science.

[Spike]

I'm a german player and im real. I havent completely finished IA yet, still waiting for v4.3 for a full walkthrough. but so far i can say i really like IA. I can understand if some users dont like this mod, but everyone can make his own decision. You can always uninstall IA, but to say there are fake users, who praise IA without a proof is really an impudence. It tells it owns tale.
You do a great job and i hope u arent affected by such stupid comments and continue your work on this project with the existing quality.

Greetings
Spike

[berelinde]

For what it's worth, nobody's flaming IA. Not everyone enjoys it, but every player is different. The original poster requested an assessment. Assessments were provided. Most were neutral in tone. All things considered, I would view the discussion taking place as just that, discussion.

[Sikret]

You can always uninstall IA, but to say there are fake users, who praise IA without a proof is really an impudence. It tells it owns tale.

That's the point, Spike! Thanks.

You do a great job and i hope u arent affected by such stupid comments and continue your work on this project with the existing quality.

Rest assured. Such "lies" are not new to us. They kept doing this since long time ago. I ignore them 99% of the times, because as you mentioned, what they write tells its own tale. Most of the times they don't need any reply from us. Intelligent players know how to interpret them.

@brelinde

For what it's worth, nobody's flaming IA. Not everyone enjoys it, but every player is different. The original poster requested an assessment. Assessments were provided. Most were neutral in tone. All things considered, I would view the discussion taking place as just that, discussion.

You are also one of the players who has sent praising comments about IA. Are you a fake poster? Was it me who was using your nickname at that time?!

Perhaps you have changed your mind about IA since that time, but this is not my point. The point is that it was you. It was not me using your nickname.

Discussion is all right, but spreading lies is different.

Apart from that particular post, even the other posts in that thread at G3 do not provide players (including the original poster) with any valid assessment of the mod. One of the guest-posters has admitted that he has not played IA v4.x at all and his memory of the mod is quite outdated and goes back to IA v3 (which was much different than v4.2 which is the current version and not comparable with the forthcoming v4.3 in the least) and has also admitted that he has not played even the v3 long enough. So, the entire thread (which includes some lies and some outdated information) can hardly provide any good assessment or advice for players.

Most of the criticisms are already replied to either in the mod's F.A.Q. or in various threads in this forum. All this said, I am the first person who has repeatedly said that those who don't like my methods can simply ignore my mod and don't play it. But writing lies such as IA players are fake is something quite different.

This post has been edited by Sikret: Sep 4 2007, 03:01 PM

[Arkain]

Oh, come on! You are ALL so very unreal! I'm the only one who's real here! Ha! (/irony)

...

Well, actually I like this thread. It's kinda funny to see what sort of pathetic "ideas" come up when it's about ranting time (again). Of course it's that much easier to simply make up some things instead of relying on real facts. And of course it's easier to write how you know or checked something... without proving it.

I just remembered my own thread, which started with a simple question and turned into a "fixpack-and-G3-fanboys vs. BWL-guys" thingy. This thread is just the opposite, with the main difference that the "IA-fanboys" post something one might call their own opinion. The "G3-guys" on the other hand seem to prefer writing something... else, wich is almost off topic. Again.

This post has been edited by Arkain: Sep 4 2007, 04:05 PM

[Baronius]

There are two possible reasons why someone loves to enter such "discussions" (I refer to the one in G3) with idiot posts. Note: I'm not talking about those who told their opinion -- positive or negative, doesn't matter -- in a respectful form.

1. Primitive, bored ppl who need/enjoy the strain, the fight, the "drama". I just call them "empty".

2. Envious to IA. For its success and because IA doesn't meet their "standards". Because they are so self-confident in the perfectness of their "standards". Just see the Bioware forum post of CamDawg, where he calls IA's SoA HLA abilities "silliness". Why is it silliness that high-level enemies have HLAs in SoA too? High level is high level. Do enemies have a label on their forehead "I'm SoA villain" or "I'm ToB badguy"? CamDawg probably has a counter-argument, but does this give right to anyone to call the other side "silliness"? Silliness? Why not a matter of approach? If you call something "silliness" instead of "IMO...", it just reflects that you are limited. Limited in imagination, and unable to respect others' work.

Fortunately, there is nothing to worry about. And that's the important. There is a saying in Hungarian, I don't know its correct counterpart in English but it sounds like: "Let them boil in their own soup."

[Shaitan]

Hi Baronious!

where he calls IA's SoA HLA abilities "silliness"

I also had some difficaulties towards this subject, and I think the silliness stands for CDs own that is his own opinion. That being said I also took and after all easily accepted Sikrets reasons for giving HLAs in SoA.

[Baronius]

I don't want to hijack this topic, but I'm not entirely sure I get what you mean. Of course it's his opinion that it's "silliness" (though only the word "unwelcome" was prefixed with "IMHO", not silliness itself, but everyone speaks in his or her own name, obviously), but telling it so confidently, and telling it at all -- is it a civilized, polite form of expressing our thoughts? Maybe it's just me. Anyway, I used that example to illustrate the giant confidence they have. In everything. They (i.e. certain modders) can't accept that their methods and customs aren't standards for everyone. This is a hobby, and thus author freedom has big role here.

[Shaitan]

I know you intend to do good Baronius, and I tend to agree with you. I can't really discuss semantics in english as you know it isn't my language. I just tried to express, that a statement like silliness IMO also is someones own opinion, meaning that when Sikret says the mod is green the mod is green to Sikret and perhaps CD thinks it's red. Got my nonsense point?

[Marceror]

Wow, whoever made the comment about an "artificial" fanbase was really stretching. The comment about the number of praises IA gets seems pretty clear to me. IA is an extreme mod, therefore, players have extreme reactions to it. They either love it or they hate it. Those who love it tend to be vocal-- as do those who hate it.

The burglary of the bookkeeper (questpack, I think) as an example just doesn't do enough to the game to evoke big reactions. IA, on the other hand, changes the entire gameplay experience. Some love it. Some hate it. Just about everyone has an opinion.

[SimDing0]

Heh. I'm sorry my quest is too small for you.

And yes, as I posted in the other thread, I think "your players are not real" may be a stretch too. I suspect it may have been slightly tongue-in-cheek from Mr. Bigg. (Quest Pack as a whole actually receives a sizeable proportion of "Ding0, you are the Don" feedback, but it's mostly drowned out in unsolved bug reports these days.)

[Shaitan]

Burglary o t Bookkeeper actually becomes long with IA as RoHI is replaced.

[SimDing0]

CONCEPTUALLY INCOMPATIBLE!

[Marceror]

Heh. I'm sorry my quest is too small for you.

Is that what I said? Is that what you think I was saying? Do you really think my point was such a stretch?

It's no wonder why so many of you modders are seemingly incapable of having a productive dialogue with one another (and I'm not just talking about G3 modders here). Your interactions have degenerated to the "freakshow" level.

[lroumen]

CONCEPTUALLY INCOMPATIBLE!

I don't mean to offend anyone, but that sure makes me laugh Sim.

[Toxeus]

Your interactions have degenerated to the "freakshow" level.

Wanna see real freakshow? Then read last pages of this thread

[Caedwyr]

Burglary o t Bookkeeper

At first glance I read that as something slightly different. With a few enhancements I'm sure you'd have something to offer the RE mod.

[SimDing0]

Do you really think my point was such a stretch?

No, but clearly my sense of humour is.