Yet another new guy at IA Options

[(Ø=M)^42]

Hello everyone.
I've finally managed to outsmart my evil email spamfilter, and thus completed my registration here. I'm very interested in IA, but I'm not sure I'm fit for it yet. I've never modded bg more than using tutu, so I don't have any experience of improved encounters. When I fight mages, I throw on some Breach and other similar spells, send fighters on and hope I kill them. From what I've read, IA mages will be just a tidbit harder to kill, using SI:abjuration and massive protections. I'm mostly wondering if there's any point in trying if I'm not sufficiently skilled in tactical bg fighting. Reloading a few times to polish a way to do a battle is of course ok, but really banging my head on a wall would drain the fun quite fast.

Due to that concern, I've also tried to get some ideas to help me out. I'd consider playing on a quite easy difficulty setting, and possibly using multiplayer, to get more powerful characters like kensai, ranger/cleric, swashbuckler, sorcerer and so on. I do view myself as a skilled gamer, but I'm just not fully attuned to bg. Hmm.. getting messy. Well, what I'm asking for is mostly tips for a newbie at IA, stuff like suggested group setup, anything similar to smart moves like having lots of Ruby Rays memorized. Maybe even a suggestion for good starting quests.

Big hugs and love goes out to everyone for helping me get into IA <3

Øystein

Edit: For what it's worth, I used Marvin^42 on SP, since that forum didn't allow for one or more of the characters in this name

This post has been edited by (Ø=M)^42: Jun 21 2007, 05:49 PM

[leonidas]

Well personally, I played tactics before IA, and I think that helped ease me into the whole tactical improvement mod scene (all 2 mods of it; IA is much better by the way).

And ofc, before sikret berates me, IA is much more than just a difficulty enhancing mod now (although it is insanely tough in places).

Imo, you can either play an easier mod like tactics beforehand, or if you haven't got time to burn there are a few things I'd recommend:-

1. Bring a kensai and make your pc a fighter/mage or a vagrant (they get....ahem....some bonuses).
2 Take a full class cleric, either anomen or one you've made yourself (IA becomes exponentially tougher the lower level your cleric is).
3. You can stick yoshimo in charge of your party so you get anomen at level 11 straight from the start of the game.
4. Do the thieves guild quest first, then the fallen paladins, then the bridge district murders, harper's hold, then do the quests aran linvail gives you (don't go to spellhold though!)
5. Don't bother with a thief, take keldorn or another fighter and cast knock on everything. Keldorn's dispel magic is mighty beyond belief.
6. Make your party good-aligned.
7. Don't memorise any level 6 spells except imp haste. Or any level 5 cleric spell apart from chaotic commands.
8. Assign a key to "quick load".


Alright, don't want to give out all the tips myself That should get you started though.

[Marceror]

OP (don't think I'm even capable of typing your username).

I'm currently playing Improved Anvil 4.2, and started under very similar pretenses to what you describe. I've been playing Baldur's Gate for years, and know the game well, but am hardly a tactical genius at it, and had never played any sort of tactical mod prior to going into IA. Sounds pretty close to your situation.

In terms of where I've made it to in the game, I just defeated Yaga Shura last night.

So, like me, I'm guessing you can do it. But expect some moments of frustration, and a learning curve. Once you get through that learning curve getting past a tough fight is pretty rewarding. It's hard to predict exactly where you'll have problems. For example, I got through what is supposedly one of the most difficult encounters in the game (the Judgement Day battle, something Sikret added to the game) without requesting assistance from anyone. It was a tough fight, but I could see a logical path to victory. However, the Yaga Shura battle which is supposedly a lot easier, had me totally stumped last night, and I failed at it over and over. It wasn't until one of the helpful game testers mentioned in a post to cast breach when Yaga Shura invokes hardiness that the light bulbs went off. I had no idea that breach removed hardiness, nor do I logically understand why it even would, but it was a fundamental game mechanic that I needed to understand to win that battle. Once I was armed with that knowledge, it took less than 30 minutes (and 3 very quick attempts) to bring home the victory.

In the SoA portion of the game, you just need to understand that many encounters are for "later." There are many things you have no hope of doing coming straight out of Irenicus' Dungeon. To avoid you some frustration, I'll recommend getting out of Athkatla almost immediately and doing the Trademeet Quests. The point is, don't expect to breeze through every part of the game, and there will be some moments of frustration. If you really get stumped, post your situation (I've done that many times on the sorcerers.net boards - finally registered on BWL just to respond to you). I find that the rewards are well worth it, and once you get a feel for Sikret's modding style, there's a lot more fun than frustration.

You can find a link to my IA experience here, and here:

http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.ph...ic/10/6175.html
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.ph...ic/10/6213.html

They say, "no pain, no gain." There's some pain to be found in IA, but the gains are really, really nice, and rewarding. Hope this helps!

--PS - apologies in advance for typos. I typed this REALLY fast, and don't have time to proofread as I typically would.

[Vardaman]

4. Do the thieves guild quest first, then the fallen paladins, then the bridge district murders, harper's hold, then do the quests aran linvail gives you (don't go to spellhold though!)

Some other good early game quests are Mekrath's tower (be careful not to trigger the toll party people), Trademeet quests, druid grove quests, rescue Viconia and Jan, Sir Sarles quest, and the Unseeing Eye quest. The game spawns less beholders if you're at a low level so it's relatively easy. You'll probably have to skip two of the optional battles though. I'll let you discover which they are.

[Clown]

To add to Leonidas advice I would say make sure you have a pure class mage or sorc as this guy is essential for early access to ruby ray, imp. haste and PfMW.
I think the ideal IA party for a first run through probably runs something like this:

1- PC Fighter/Mage or better Fighter/Illusionist- the best class.
2- Keldorn- dispel magic rocks
3- Valygar- some good new gear plus having three hard hitters really helps
4- Haer dalis- Excellent decoy and back up mage and scroll user, useful for when you want to get off 5 ruby rays as quick as possible
5- Nalia/Imoen/Kelsey- All good choices but nalia probably the strongest due to her item upgrade.
6- Anomen- Greater Command and his combat potential make him useful in early game by the end he will be demoted to standing in the corner casting greater restoration but someones got to do it so it may as well be him.

As for quests the graveyards always good for early game as are everything but the main umar hills quest.

Main advice would be study the battle text, will help you win battles and better, teach you some effective ways to buff your characters. Sure mages in IA are tough but there is no reason you cant use the exact same spell combos.

[(Ø=M)^42]

Thanks for all the replies

6- Anomen- Greater Command and his combat potential make him useful in early game by the end he will be demoted to standing in the corner casting greater restoration but someones got to do it so it may as well be him.

Main advice would be study the battle text, will help you win battles and better, teach you some effective ways to buff your characters. Sure mages in IA are tough but there is no reason you cant use the exact same spell combos.

"Standing in a corner casting greater restoration"
/sigh, I'm tired of vampires and level draining already

As in fully copying enemy mages spell protections? I know they use smart buffs, and it won't hurt to protect my casters, i've just never used that much, since they tend to be quite safe and out of reach in the back of my group. But of course, improved scripts and AI should make enemies target my softer characters.

Would it be advisable to use multiplayer to get 6 characters of specified classes, or do I lose out on too much exp/items from character-related quests? I'll gladly sacrifice the RP aspect of using bioware NPCs on my first try if it makes a big difference in difficulty.

Edit: I'm probably missing something obvious, but who's Kelsey? Not Keldorn, since you mentioned him at #2. Still, no Kelsey on http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/encounters/npcs/

This post has been edited by (Ø=M)^42: Jun 21 2007, 07:45 PM

[Arkain]

Er... the Greater Restoration is for the instant healing, not because of level draining . Play IA and you will surely see it for yourself in the harder battles

Well... tipps:

1. Have at least one F/M type. Two or Three are even better. Solaufein (mod) would be an example. And of course the protagonist
2. One sort of priest. Clerics are better because of Greater Restoration etc.. You could take Anomen as he can pack a punch later on. Don't forget he got fighter levels.
3. Inquisitors (read: Keldorn) are still cool . Dispel Magic and the Holy Avenger are really useful.
4. Thieves aren't that powerful and needed in IA. Maybe a swashbuckler, but that's it mostly.
5. Pure mages are good for early access to higher spell levels... but later on aren't that useful as their power is somewhat decreased (most enemies have very high resistances, immunities and magic resistance). Mostly used for dispelling and buffing. If you reach really high levels your F/M type character *could* do it... maybe.
6. You should have one or two pure (good aligned) warriors (Valygar is quite good. As is Keldorn - I had both with me), as in the next IA version only they will be capable of using some of the most powerful IA items. The problem with those is that they are hard to protect, as they can't cast PfMW etc. to protect themselves from the hard hitting attacks
7. Forget the idea of using missile attacks. Don't play a archer.

This post has been edited by Arkain: Jun 21 2007, 08:25 PM

[Baronius]

Kelsey is an NPC mod.

[(Ø=M)^42]

Aha. That was my next guess. BTW, why is only Vagrant kit included in IA, and not Auramaster and Riskbreaker? I can't see Sikret making two powerful kits like that if not intended for the improved difficulty of IA, yet I don't understand why they are not suggested in the IA installation readme file. Not to be critizing, it just puzzled me.

ooh, one more thing. The F/M you're suggesting, that's a multiclass, right?

[Arkain]

Sikret moves in mysterious ways

Yup. Multiclasses beat the usual dual class everyday. Especially if you have the xp cap removed. But even without this the multiclass will gain more (better) HLAs. In the F/M case you can gain Critical Strike after a level up instead of a 10th level spell you will never use, for example.

[thetruth]

Welcome to BWL (Ø=M)^42 (heh though I would prefer Marvin )

I'm mostly wondering if there's any point in trying if I'm not sufficiently skilled in tactical bg fighting. Reloading a few times to polish a way to do a battle is of course ok, but really banging my head on a wall would drain the fun quite fast.

Well the choice is up to you.
Improved Anvil is the most difficult of any other mod out there and as leonidas said, having played with Tactics,Ascension and other similar mods for sure can help.

But even then some of the difficult battles of IA can be still very frustrating .

As for your party I agree with Arkain.
F/Ms is the most powerful class in IA and you will have an easier time later in the game with a F/M (also recommended for the improved Mage stronghold).

From the original game Anomen is a good choice as Keldorn is.

You could use some multi-created characters as well:

- F/T (good fighter + Timetraps and UAI later) or a Swashbuckler (great AC)
- Sorcerer (or Kelsey mod) (but careful at the spell selection)
- a Half-Orc Berserker or a Barbarian (with 19 STR,CON)
- R/C

all of them are excellent choices.

[(Ø=M)^42]

I'm afraid of getting stuck due to not using optimal party setup the first time with such a difficult mod, so I think it'll be multiplayer to have more control over which classes to bring. Would there be any real problems (not enough high level spell slots, too low turn undead skill, not enough melee, arcane casters, not enough thieving skill, anything) with this setup?

F/M
F/T
Cleric (or even berserker-->cleric, if anyone thinks that'd be worth it)
Sorcerer
R/C
Inquisitor

That's a lot of powerful kits, but only two people who can cast ruby rays. Can an inquisitor's dispell remove any buff? Or rather, can any spell protection stop Dispell? (I know about the 50% +5% and -10% per level)

[Clown]

While that set-up is strong and will probably work fine I would sugget using an NPC based set up such as the one I suggested as the NPC quests can be some good early xp plus they have access to their own individual new powerful equipment. That would be my advice but play it how you want as I've said the party you suggested would be fine. Personally i'd have the cleric as a swashbuckler 10/cleric to cover the theiving skills plus the three free points of thac0 and ac are nice. Then switch out the fighter/thief for a blade and the ranger/cleric for a beserker or barbarian. These just represent personal choices based on how I play and are not neccesarily improvements

Another character you might want to try instead of the F/T is an assasin 24/fighter, with the grandfather of assasins, grand mastery in daggers and the new cutthroat the damage potential is sickening. 10 attacks around permamnent and 4 uses of assasination a day at *7. This takes some time to get its classes reactivated but with five other strong players shouldn't be a problem and should come into its own just in time for the really tough battles of TOB.

Also immunity abujuration now blocks dispel magic so you have to bring that down with ruby ray first. Dispel is most useful for taking down mages who use the invisibility and immunity divination combo.

This post has been edited by Clown: Jun 22 2007, 10:28 AM

[Stu]

My party exactly Marvin! (well when I dual my Beserker to a cleric, and if you do the same). Instead of using a multiplayer game you could alter the classes of existing npc's using a lvl 1 npc mod (this way you don't miss out on the banters/quests).

Like you and Marceror I have never previously played any difficulty enhancing mods (and the highest difficulty I've used has been core) - I did however go though SoA with just a sorcerer and a FMT, which kind of helped with magical strategies. It's a very tough game with IA and it completely changes the dynamics of just about everything - It's all hugely rewarding though and really reinvigorates the playing experience. Remember though - you can always lower the difficulty (it will still be way harder than the vinalla game ), skip battles (this is pretty much required for some encounters) and ask for help on the forums (we're here to help, or at least trying in my case)

[thetruth]

I'm afraid of getting stuck due to not using optimal party setup the first time with such a difficult mod, so I think it'll be multiplayer to have more control over which classes to bring. Would there be any real problems (not enough high level spell slots, too low turn undead skill, not enough melee, arcane casters, not enough thieving skill, anything) with this setup?

F/M
F/T
Cleric (or even berserker-->cleric, if anyone thinks that'd be worth it)
Sorcerer
R/C
Inquisitor

That's a lot of powerful kits, but only two people who can cast ruby rays. Can an inquisitor's dispell remove any buff? Or rather, can any spell protection stop Dispell? (I know about the 50% +5% and -10% per level)

Yes it is a very good party.

I would prefer another multi-classed Cleric than a pure one. A Half-Orc F/C with 19 STR,CON is very powerful, or even a Berserker dualled to Cleric at level 7 with G.Mastery in a weapon (install the True GM comp. of EoU).
Just try to give 18 WIS to your clerics (bonus spells).

Also as Clown suggested, a F/Illusionist would be even more powerful than the plain F/M (+1 spell/level) (but of course only if you don't have any problems with gnomes )

Inquisitor's Dispel Magic can dispel many buffs like Combat spell protections (stoneskin, PfMWs, A.Immunity etc) but only if the enemy doesn't have SI:Abjuration. But it cannot dispel Spell Protections like SI, Globes, Sp.Turning, Sp.Trap etc.

And if you want some party banters you could use SK to change the classes of existing NPCs (also for the reasons Clown mentioned).

This post has been edited by thetruth: Jun 22 2007, 10:38 AM

[(Ø=M)^42]

I need to finish up my ongoing multiplayer game before I install IA, but I created my characters, ended up with
F/illusionist
F/T
F/C
Sorcerer
R/C
Inquisitor
Starting out with war hammer, mace, flail, long sword, short sword, dagger, two handed sword, and since noone can go above 2 stars in any weapon, everyone will have to pick more, so I should be proficient with most weapon types quite soon (I don't know what weapons are best in IA, but I can't be completely stumped with this setup )
Do I need to make one character into a tank? Who'd fit best? I guess RC or FC. But even as a tank, points in sword+shield isn't worth much, since it's only a small bonus vs. missile weapons, right?

[thetruth]

I would go with Flails and Clubs for your R/C and Hammers and Maces for your F/C.
Long Swords and Scimitars (Belm) for your F/I and 2H Swords and Halberds for the Inquisitor.
Also Sh.Swords and Scimitars (Scarlet Ninja-To after UAI) for your F/T.

It would be also better to put eventually 3* in dual-wielding for the characters that use single handed weapons, since I.Haste can really make the difference in IA.

And single weapon style is useless.

As for tanks the F/I and the R/C are the best choices.

[leonidas]

F/M is the best tank. Most fights you need either a summoned creature or someone with pomw to take hits for you (or someone with very high damage resistance). AC doesn't mean a lot.

The game becomes harder without a single or low dual-classed cleric btw. Really not worth the extra fighter levels to miss out on getting greater restoration and skeleton warriors in the early game.

Also, you have no pure class warrior. IA's enemies are defined by low ACs, it won't be a problem later on I guess, but early in the game it's tough going without a low thac0 character. I suggest a kensai instead of an R/C and a lvl 7 berserker dualled to cleric if you want the best possible group for IA.

[Arkain]

Yup, AC is really irrelevant. I had Keldorn run around with -24 (cap ) and he was still frequently hit.

On the other hand I wouldn't suggest using a kensai. Kensais get insane bonuses to THAC0 and damage... but what for? You will still deal minimal damage, because enemies tend to have resistances (either naturally or via spells... or both ).
You don't really need two multiclassed clerics either. R/C and F/C have two classes both... but eventually the R/C will become more powerful, because he has more spells and the F/C doesn't get grand mastery (without mods, that is). So it would be somewhat pointless. You could go with another F/M for example.
The F/T isn't that useful either, imho. A thief isn't really necessary (I didn't have one in ToB anymore ) and the bonuses the F/T gets aren't too great. Think about it: many enemies are immune to backstab. All traps but time traps are quite useless. And even the mighty time trap isn't *that* useful later on. You could make this character a F/M/T, for example. This way you would still have thieving abilites, including UAI of course, and combine them with a F/M's tanking power. Well, you would level slower of course... but it might be worth it. Personally I've played with a F/M/C protagonist and she was one of my top killers and the most important healer (+ only cleric) even though it's a triple class (read: levels slower). Although one should keep in mind that the protagonist gets the most exp.

This post has been edited by Arkain: Jun 22 2007, 03:08 PM

[rbeverjr]

Yup, AC is really irrelevant. I had Keldorn run around with -24 (cap ) and he was still frequently hit.

On the other hand I wouldn't suggest using a kensai. Kensais get insane bonuses to THAC0 and damage... but what for? You will still deal minimal damage, because enemies tend to have resistances (either naturally or via spells... or both ).
You don't really need two multiclassed clerics either. R/C and F/C have two classes both... but eventually the R/C will become more powerful, because he has more spells and the F/C doesn't get grand mastery (without mods, that is). So it would be somewhat pointless. You could go with another F/M for example.
The F/T isn't that useful either, imho. A thief isn't really necessary (I didn't have one in ToB anymore ) and the bonuses the F/T gets aren't too great. Think about it: many enemies are immune to backstab. All traps but time traps are quite useless. And even the mighty time trap isn't *that* useful later on. You could make this character a F/M/T, for example. This way you would still have thieving abilites, including UAI of course, and combine them with a F/M's tanking power. Well, you would level slower of course... but it might be worth it. Personally I've played with a F/M/C protagonist and she was one of my top killers and the most important healer (+ only cleric) even though it's a triple class (read: levels slower). Although one should keep in mind that the protagonist gets the most exp.

I know I'm just the new kid on the block, but several of these comments don't seem right to me. Are you sure?

First off, I think AC matters. I agree that AC is not enough. Very high physical damage resistance or spell granted immunity is better by far, but the fact that the enemy will occasionally miss because of your AC is beneficial. Sometimes, I have allowed my swashbuckler to use a shield instead of 2 weapons when I wanted the maximum AC early in the game.

Kensai are really nice in that they will hit. Your FM may run out of critical strikes in some of the long battles, but the kensai will still hit. And yeh, with the resistances, minimal damage is done, but the kensai genrally does a little more damage. Every HP counts. The kensai's AC will never be that of the other fighters, agreed. (I personally think they should be allowed to wear bracers.) However, you can boost up their DR. The FM does remain *much* more durable, but in general I found I had the hardest time when I was of relatively low level. You can't underestimate the value of being able to hit your opponent! I do understand that the spell casting melee guys can be more powerful in the end than the kensai, but the kensai does have value. He can also use the judgment day sword. While that may not make him equal to the FM and RC, it certainly helps bridge the gap.

I am kind of bummed that the thief's role is largely reduced to lock opener/trap disarmer, but as you pointed out he does have some advantages (UAI, time trap). The swashbuckler, in particular, can do very well in this game. He helped out in my game. I doubt that thetruth would try to solo one unless he felt there was some chance for him to succeed. I will try a FMT in my next run through instead of the swashbuckler. I expect him to suck eggs for a while, but he should be beneficial to the team after he garnishes some XP.