Misc. Questions on Difficulty, Party Composition, and Spell Selection Options

[nataben1314]

Not all of them but let's say that the most difficult battles of IA are at the level of Ascesnion on insane.

Well, I guess there's no time like the present to learn true BG2 tactics lol. The hardest thing I'll have beaten up until starting IA will be like improved tor'gal from tactics with a solo blade... so this will be a whole new experience!

Improved Sendai is not so difficult on insane if you have a party.
Well at least less difficult than soloing it with some classes .

I think the definition of "difficult" for the most tactically advanced BG2 player out there is a lot different than my definition of difficult!



So (to everyone), this is what it looks like my party will be. Any final comments/tweaks/suggestions on ways to make it better? When I say better, I mean better in the sense of being able to make it through IA with the least difficulty, not necessarily the most powerful when all is said and done at the end of ToB:

1. (protagonist for ranger content) ranger/cleric multiclass (flails/clubs)
2. Berserker, dualed to mage at level 7. (katana/scimitar)
3. Auramaster (possibly Cernd) (druid staffs [stuff that helps casting], slings)
4. Fighter/Mage multiclass (staff)
5. Swashbuckler (longsword/katana)
6. Inquisitor (two handed sword)

And is there anything special about IA with regard to what proficiencies to pick, or should I just go about proficiencies as if I am playing through a regular game? I know about the item list in the readme but its hard for me to tell which of those items are available in early to mid game and which wont be available until the end of ToB where that type of thing doesn't matter as much anymore.

Sorry for so many questions, you guys are probably all thinking "this guy doesn't have a friggen chance, he can't even make a party".

[Mongerman]

Might as well ask this as well. thetruth, you stated the f/m is potentially the most powerful class in IA. Could you give some tips on spell selection, weapons etc?

[Sikret]

1. (protagonist for ranger content) ranger/cleric multiclass (flails/clubs)
2. Berserker, dualed to mage at level 7. (katana/scimitar)
3. Auramaster (possibly Cernd) (druid staffs [stuff that helps casting], slings)
4. Fighter/Mage multiclass (staff)
5. Swashbuckler (longsword/katana)
6. Inquisitor (two handed sword)

(1) No.1, no.3 and no.6 are fine, IMO. Just why don't you add war hammer to the list of weapons for your Ranger/Cleric either?

(2) Why do you give the staff to your F/M instead of your B-M? Your main mage will be the B-M after all. I think you can give the proficiency of Long Sword to you F/M.

(3) You will find good katanas but not excellent ones during the game. Why have you concentrated on katanas so much? Even Celestial Fury is nerfed and it will be probably consumed as an ingredient to forge an excellent war hammer in the long term.

(4) Who is going to use a powerful shield (ex: Supreme Shelter) with a good plate armor to have a good AC in your party? Noone? The inquisitor is going to use two handed swords which means he won't wield a shield and your protagonist being a ranger will most likely dual wield and will fight with two weapons. You won't have any character with excellent AC, I guess. Playing styles are different for sure and the game can be done with most of those different styles. IT's true that in most cases, protective spells such as pfmw and stoneskins can compensate low AC in a good way; nonetheless, if I were you, I would choose one of my characters to use shield and one weapon (instead of dual wielding), and a good plate armor. In the middle stages of the game in SOA, a character with good AC will be a great advantage. If I were you, I would probably dual my Swashbuckler to a mage (instead of my Berserker). I would leave the Berserker to continue in his class and would give him good armor and shield. But on other hand, thetruth has good arguments for having a high level single class Swashbuckler. I don't know. Play it in the way you prefer and just let us know about your progress. The good thing about this game is that it can be played in a wide range of different methods and styles.

[nataben1314]

(1) No.1, no.3 and no.6 are fine, IMO. Just why don't you add war hammer to the list of weapons for your Ranger/Cleric either?

ahh yes, I totally had forgot about warhammers!

(2) Why do you give the staff to your F/M instead of your B-M? Your main mage will be the B-M after all. I think you can give the proficiency of Long Sword to you F/M.

hmm good point. I was just going off thetruth recommending that I make sure that the b-m is a dual-wielder

(3) You will find good katanas but not excellent ones during the game. Why have you concentrated on katanas so much? Even Celestial Fury is nerfed and it will be probably consumed as an ingredient to forge an excellent war hammer in the long term.

ahh thanks! I hadn't realized CF was nerfed. I will not use katanas then. Maybe hammer/belm for the b-m (or f-m if I decide to switch which one dual-wields), and lswd/scarlet ninja-to for the swashie. I will probably also want someone proficient in axes so I can throw azureedge to beat up on undead.

(4) Who is going to use a powerful shield (ex: Supreme Shelter) with a good plate armor to have a good AC in your party? Noone? The inquisitor is going to use two handed swords which means he won't wield a shield and your protagonist being a ranger will most likely dual wield and will fight with two weapons. You won't have any character with excellent AC, I guess.

Well a swashie can have AC of about -24 while dual-wielding, which is certainly good! And he'll have UAI so if he really is in need of even lower AC he can switch to a single weapon and Supreme Shelter.

Playing styles are different for sure and the game can be done with most of those different styles. IT's true that in most cases, protective spells such as pfmw and stoneskins can compensate low AC in a good way; nonetheless, if I were you, I would choose one of my characters to use shield and one weapon (instead of dual wielding), and a good plate armor. In the middle stages of the game in SOA, a character with good AC will be a great advantage. If I were you, I would probably dual my Swashbuckler to a mage (instead of my Berserker). I would leave the Berserker to continue in his class and would give him good armor and shield. But on other hand, thetruth has good arguments for having a high level single class Swashbuckler. I don't know. Play it in the way you prefer and just let us know about your progress. The good thing about this game is that it can be played in a wide range of different methods and styles.

You raise some very good points, which I don't have a detailed enough knowledge of IA or the game in general to counter. I think we're probably just getting to the point where I will have a very powerful party regardless of what I choose. I should be starting in about 5 hours or so when I get back from my math exam, so wish me luck!

[thetruth]

@nataben1314

First of all I don't have much experience with weapons and items of IA because I had decided to not use any of them during my game (just for the challenge - they are not overpowered for IA).

- I agree with Sikret that the F/M should use long-swords (probably the best weapon type in IA) since he will be your main tank for most of the game and it is good to be as effective as possible offensively.
So long swords and 3* in dual-wielding for him.

Later give him 2* in Scimitars (Belm) and another 2* in a weapon that does crushing dmg.
Try to specialize all of your characters later in weapons which do crushing dmg.
You will need them .


- For the Swashbuckler I would give him 2* in short-swords for the Kundane (off-hand), 3* in dualwielding and another 2* in Long-swords again or Katanas for your main weapon.
After UAI specialize him in Scimitars for the Scarlet.


- Your Inquisitor could specialize, along with 2-handed swords, in Hammers as Sikret said. And better if you give him 3* in dual-wielding later.
Many ApR help much in IA.

- For your B-M you could go with G.Mastery in Axes if you want. There are some good axes early in the game.

Who is going to use a powerful shield (ex: Supreme Shelter) with a good plate armor to have a good AC in your party?

He could give it to the Swashbuckler after UAI.
The Swashbuckler doesn't need stealth so it won't be a problem if he wears heavy armor.

Generally in the difficult battles of IA good AC is not so useful that's why a F/M is so effective with his buffs.
But the Swashbuckler's insane AC is an exception. -24 AC (with Plate Mail and Shield) will be very effective against most enemies of IA - even in ToB.

Might as well ask this as well. thetruth, you stated the f/m is potentially the most powerful class in IA. Could you give some tips on spell selection, weapons etc?

He is so powerful because at the same time he can fight well and can stay in the front line longer than other characters (buffs).

A Berserker-Mage (21-22) is even more powerful (with the True G.Mastery patch), but not the ideal dual-class for a party and soloing is extremely difficult in IA.

For Spells a very good combo against the enemies of IA, who use very effectively protection Removal spells, is the following:

SI: Abjuration + Spell Trap + Spell Shield (at high levels or from SotMagi)

and then the usual Stoneskin + Mirror Image + PfMWs and if needed PfMEnergy, Elemental protection, Fireshields etc..
Of course don't forget Improved Haste (in ToB levels combine it with C.Strikes , P.Attacks, Smite).

With a little micromanagement you can renew your buffs during the fight (mainly the SI which will prevent dispelling of your buffs).

About weapons my favourite is the Flail of the Ages for the main hand.
In IA unfortunately it has been nerfed (though it's still a very good weapon), so I would go with Long Swords (dual wielding of course).
And don't forget to give him prof. points in a weapon that does crushing dmg..

This post has been edited by thetruth: Apr 20 2007, 04:04 PM

[Mongerman]

Thanks for the fast reply thetruth.

[Shaitan]

A new party!

I'm pondering if this party will be sufficient:

Protagonist F/M (halfelf, dual in Longswords/Flail (or is warhammers better?)
Either Keldorn or Minsc (as a berzerker)
Jaheira (for romance)
Anomen
Arie
Nalia (-> Imoen when conquering spellhold)

Can somebody tell me if this is going to work

Regards Shaitan

This post has been edited by Shaitan: Apr 21 2007, 08:52 AM

[thetruth]

@Shaitan

Yes it is a good party.
I wouldn't take Nalia though if you intend to get Imoen later ( no XP to waste ).Aeire and your F/M should be more than enough to cover your party needs for mage spells until that time.

- Your F/M could use Longswords (or even shortswords for Kundane in the off-hand) and Flails.

- For Jaheira Clubs and Scimitars (Belm).

- Hammers for Anomen.

- Flails (for FoA+DoEastheaven) if you take Minsc as a Barbarian.
Also Halberds are a very good choice in IA for the mid-late game.

Also since you asked about a quest-order for IA4, look at the second post of this topic (first page).

[Shaitan]

Thanks a lot!

I use Minsc as a berserker (via a small mod from SP). I hadn't thought on using him with flails in a dual or on halbards, so this seems as a good idea. There's a lot of good flails/halbards out there. Perhaps I'll give the flails to my protagonist...

Thanks again

Regards Shaitan

[thetruth]

Ah sorry I misread. I suggested flails because, if he was a Barbarian, his natural res. to physical dmg (20%), DoEastheaven (20%) and Hardiness (40%) would make him an excellent tank in the extreme battles of late game.

But as a Berserker he will be good enough especially in early-mid game.
Just remember to take GM in your weapon of choice.

I insist on dualwielding because I.Haste can make your characters very effective offensively. But later GM in Halberds is a good idea for Minsc (even better when he will have his first GWWs).

[Sikret]

Protagonist F/M (halfelf, dual in Longswords/Flail (or is warhammers better?)

Comparing Flails and War Hammers, if you mean the new items which can be forged, let's have a look at the items list:

1- For flails:

Two +1 flails
Two Emeralds
5,000 gp

-> Flail +2
==========================================================================
Flail +2
Scroll of Enchanted Weapon
Permanency Scroll
15,000 gp

-> Flail +3
==========================================================================
Defender of Easthaven
Gnasher club
Two +3 Flails
six Diamonds
Ten Mithril Tokens
150,000 gp

-> Flail of Defending and Wounding +5

+25% Resistance to damage taken from all weapon types.

THAC0: +5
Damage: 1D6 +6 (Blunt)
Special ability:
One round after a successful hit, the weapon starts to inflict five points
of bleeding (Piercing) damage per second for 18 seconds. This is cumulative
with additional successful hits.
Proficiency type: Flail
Not usable by:
Mage
Thief
Monk

2- For war hammers:

Crom Faeyr
Borok's Fist
Ashideena
Celestial Fury
Five chunks of amber
Two green scrolls of Protection From Electricity
Permanency Scroll
75,000 gp

-> Hammer of Thor +5

grants 25 Strength
kills Stone/Clay/Bone/Sand Golems and Trolls
100% Resistance to Electricity
With each successful hit there is a 10% chance to inflict 10D10
additional electrical points of damage to the target.

THAC0: +5 bonus
Damage: 2D4 + 5 (crushing), +6 electrical

As for the game's own items, you can have Flail of ages and Borok's Fist hammer as well as Ashideena somewhat early in the game (though none of them will be available without a challenge). I think you can give progiciency stars to both of these weapon types to your characters.


And thetruth is surely right about Halberds. There are very powerful halberds which you can forge during the game, though forging them is not easy at all.

[Mongerman]

Sorry to hijack this thread. Sikret, I'll be starting my game tmr. Would you prefer I send you feedback through pm, or start a new thread as a journal?

[edit] Has the long abscence from BG dulled me, or has IA disabled shoplifting?

This post has been edited by Mongerman: Apr 21 2007, 02:04 PM

[thetruth]

Has the long abscence from BG dulled me, or has IA disabled shoplifting?

Hehe no you are OK, it's that stealing has been disabled from all stores.
Now you have to think very carefully where you spend your money

And better IMO, since it makes sense that you can steal one or two items from a shop, but stealing and reselling whatever you want at the same shopkeeper was cheesy and unrealistic.

[nataben1314]

wait so stealing more than like one thing from a store is completley disabled? Well that was a waste of a bunch of skill points on my swashie.

[Sikret]

Sikret, I'll be starting my game tmr. Would you prefer I send you feedback through pm, or start a new thread as a journal?

Send your journal in public, but be careful not to spoil the fun of the game for readers with heavy and unnecessary spoilers. I'm sure you know how to write your journal to keep it interesting without containing bad spoilers. I have read your writings before.

@nataben

I'm sure you can still benefit from those thieving skill points by picking people's pockets. And tell us if you find something surprising in anyone's pocket.

[Shaitan]

@Shaitan

Yes it is a good party.
I wouldn't take Nalia though if you intend to get Imoen later ( no XP to waste ).Aeire and your F/M should be more than enough to cover your party needs for mage spells until that time.

- Your F/M could use Longswords (or even shortswords for Kundane in the off-hand) and Flails.

- For Jaheira Clubs and Scimitars (Belm).

- Hammers for Anomen.

- Flails (for FoA+DoEastheaven) if you take Minsc as a Barbarian.
Also Halberds are a very good choice in IA for the mid-late game.

Also since you asked about a quest-order for IA4, look at the second post of this topic (first page).

Ah Sorry guys! I remember why I don't like to play mages... I'll have to go for a R/C instead using both flails and hammers I'll put in Kivan (Archer Ranger) instead of Anomen, otherwise I still use Nalia, Arie, Jaheira & Minsc. I noted that Sikret and thetruth recommend R/C multi and R/C is AFAIK also good for extra quests/materials.

Regards

[thetruth]

Ah Sorry guys! I remember why I don't like to play mages... I'll have to go for a R/C instead using both flails and hammers I'll put in Kivan (Archer Ranger) instead of Anomen, otherwise I still use Nalia, Arie, Jaheira & Minsc. I noted that Sikret and thetruth recommend R/C multi and R/C is AFAIK also good for extra quests/materials.

Regards

It's still a good party, though I have to say that the F/M would make your life much easier, especially in the difficult battles of late game.

You could always make a multi-F/M or you could take HaerDalis (sort of F/M but with awful THACO if you don't exploit the singing-Mislead clones cheese).

I had HaerDalis in my IA party and he was very useful in the tough battles of the mod (I didn't have a F/M).
Timetraps and Improved Bard song were very useful later.

EDIT: But then there is little Aerie that can be really powerful with the right buffs, so you can even leave your party as it is now.

This post has been edited by thetruth: Apr 21 2007, 09:22 PM

[Shaitan]

So you think I can use Aerie as a competent partymember? Hmm IMO it's better than creating a MP F/M, so I'll grab your advice...

[thetruth]

Yes, Aerie with a combination of Cleric and Mage spells and SI: Abjuration can be surprisingly powerful

[Mongerman]

the truth, how is haer delis helpful? I'm thinking of taking him along, but as IA is item poor, and blades are item dependent, I'm not sure if he is worth the slot