IAv6 for BG2EE, public beta Options

[critto]

CBS should be undispellable, judging from the file's structure. Same for Hardiness, but it should be susceptible to Breach according to it's secondary type.

[Krell]

Both Hardiness and Chain Breaker Stance can be removed by Purge Magic, so they're definitely not undispellable.

Also Hardiness can be dispelled by scripts which state *Dispel combat protections* like the Mithril golem and similar melee abilities.

This post has been edited by Krell: Jun 16 2015, 07:22 AM

[critto]

Hardiness is a combat ability and therefore is dispellable This is the only mechanism known to me that makes it susceptible to Breach (via secondary type). I strongly suspect that this is the reason it works that way.

I won't touch Hardiness, it needs extensive testing, we don't have that kind of opportunity right now. I'll see what can be done about CBS, but honestly, the RB class is so powerful that I am reluctant to improve it further.

[Krell]

I was under the impression that we're discussing innate fighter abilities and why they shouldn't be dispellable, since those are part of their training rather than spells. If you're looking at it another way - nerfing those because certain classes and kits are too powerful - then ok, just don't write things like:

IIRC, the Monk's haste should be undispellable, the reason being that it's more a part of their training rather than a spell.

because it will raise questions like I already asked about other fighter abilities which can be dispelled. Just say *Monk's Flurry of Blows will not be dispellable because we, the mod's developers, have decided to be this way.* which will be far closer to the truth. No problem there, just state things right and clear, to avoid confusion. Also, it would be extremely helpful to list the non-spell innate abilities which are dispellable in some way and those which are undispellable. Examples:

Not only Hardiness and Chain Breaker Stance, but also Evasion, Greater Evasion and (I think) Magic Resistance HLAs can be dispelled.

However, there are several more new innate HLAs like the ones of the Swashbuckler v6 class which are unknown to many of the players (including myself) - dispellable or not?

IMO for all newly-added by the mod abilities, not only HLAs, but also enemy scripts and Purge Magic for example should be listed are they dispellable by any means or (in cases with purge magic) what exactly do they dispel. Also, when introducing new dispellable HLA, it will be nice to know under which category it fits - combat/specific protection, combat buff or whatever.

[critto]

I've designed, to use a pompous word, this ability with this vision in my mind for the monk class and therefore I describe it as I see fit. Hardiness and CBS were implemented by Sikret, what's his exact motivations were is unknown to me. My own unwillingness to change I described as I perceive it. I didn't nerf or change a single thing. What's unclear about it?

Also, it would be extremely helpful to list the non-spell innate abilities which are dispellable in some way and those which are undispellable.

I don't have such a list available. If and when time permits, I might compile it, but can't promise anything.

[bulian]

There are a couple enemies at least where hardiness isn't dispellable/breachable - notably Lord Roellen (de'Arnise final battle) and Supreme Leader. Perhaps I am missing something about their kits.

Any hints on which kit you are looking to include n 6.2? Either a shapeshifter or a totemic druid could fit the IA playstyle. However, a shapeshifter could feel like a monk and many classes (normal druid, vagrant, arcane casters) have powerful summons. So its not so obvious how those kits would have a substantially different feel.

Krell,

Perhaps if you have some saves near an ultra golem fight you could do some tests and share on which abilities are dispellable/purgable? I think purge is different than dispel. Note barbarian essence potions aren't dispellable/purgable. I can't think of other potions/effects (Tenser's?) that would fit that category except perhaps Tenser's.

[Krell]

There are a couple enemies at least where hardiness isn't dispellable/breachable - notably Lord Roellen (de'Arnise final battle) and Supreme Leader. Perhaps I am missing something about their kits.

Any hints on which kit you are looking to include n 6.2? Either a shapeshifter or a totemic druid could fit the IA playstyle. However, a shapeshifter could feel like a monk and many classes (normal druid, vagrant, arcane casters) have powerful summons. So its not so obvious how those kits would have a substantially different feel.

Krell,

Perhaps if you have some saves near an ultra golem fight you could do some tests and share on which abilities are dispellable/purgable? I think purge is different than dispel. Note barbarian essence potions aren't dispellable/purgable. I can't think of other potions/effects (Tenser's?) that would fit that category except perhaps Tenser's.

Lord Roenall, the Supreme Leader and general Jamis Tombelten are immune to Breach. Otherwise, their Hardiness is dispellable, provided that the party also had scripts or melee attacks with which to dispel combat protections, as several IA enemies have, or Purge Magic for that matter. Since the party has none of these, it may seem to you that the listed enemies' Hardiness is undispellable. Illasera is also immune to Breach, though she doesn't use Hardiness but spell scrolls for protection. Nyalee is immune to Breach as well. If I'm missing some immune to breach enemies, feel free to add them to the list.

Checking which vanilla innate thief and warrior HLAs are dispellable and undispellable is easy enough. All defensive abilities are dispellable (Hardiness, Evasion, Avoid Death, Magic Resistance, etc) , all offensive are undispellable (Critical Strike, Power Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Smite, etc). However, what I meant is that description of the dispellable and undispellable new (IA-modded) warrior HLAs should be included in the mod description documents. What use is it to make a post here where it will soon be left in oblivion and no one will look at it? Moreover, there are new (v6.2) added warrior innate abilities which no one can test at present, but those should as well be included in the new version's description documents.

[lroumen]

You guys sure play this game fast.... I'm still only in chapter two (granted I linger there for a loooong time).

I was also wondering about the new druid kit and/or magnitude of the content of the expanded druid stronghold. What I like is the druid only upgrade and minor change in items (treefolk arm it seems), but there is no incentive yet to craft those items

Good thing summer is coming. More time to play!

[critto]

I was also wondering about the new druid kit and/or magnitude of the content of the expanded druid stronghold. What I like is the druid only upgrade and minor change in items (treefolk arm it seems), but there is no incentive yet to craft those items

The kit is not new, but an existing one. I don't want to overpopulate the game with new kits, better modify existing ones, it's less problematic from the point of implementation. We're still experimenting. As for the content, there will be at least one pretty large quest for which a custom new area was made long time ago. The whole todo list for v7 is pretty large however, but I don't know yet which things will be done. As for items and upgrades, there are plenty. We've extended the item randomizer with some previously statically placed items (and will extend with more). In v6.2, we've worked on spears and scimitars to make them good weapon choices (not only for druids, btw). In v7, we'll definitely take a look at clubs.

[critto]

2 Azoth:

Didn't know that summoned Skeleton Warriors can become unconscious?!? But Bessen, the wizard in the Harper Hold somehow did...

What exactly did Bessen use to achieve this? I only found Darts of Stunning on him, but skeleton summons are protected from this. Incidentally, how did you summon the skeletons? 3rd level Animate Dead?

[Krell]

2 Azoth:

Didn't know that summoned Skeleton Warriors can become unconscious?!? But Bessen, the wizard in the Harper Hold somehow did...

What exactly did Bessen use to achieve this? I only found Darts of Stunning on him, but skeleton summons are protected from this. Incidentally, how did you summon the skeletons? 3rd level Animate Dead?

Bessen should have a Spell Sequencer loaded with Emotion, Confusion and Slow spells. Probably, Emotion incapacitated those skeletons. Incidentally, if we're talking about regular Skeletons (and not Skeleton Warriors), I think those are not immune to Unconsciousness.

[critto]

They have protection from Sleep opcode as well. I can't see clearly from the screen whether the creature is really unconscious or the message simply popped up without the actual effect taking place. If it's the latter then it's fixable without any problems.

[Azoth]

Yes, it was a "Skeleton Warrior" from Cleric's "Animate Dead" and it was not only the message, the Skeleton was flat on the ground.
Sry, i cannot remember exactly what Bessen did.

[critto]

Do you have, by chance, a save prior to this battle so that I could test and reproduce the issue?

[Azoth]

Will have a look into it tonight...

[critto]

Thanks. I'll send my email address via PM in case you find a save.

[Azoth]

Email sent.

Just another thing. When fighting all the Vampiric Mists in the entrance hall of the Windspear dungeon (where Ruhk the conjurer is), i noticed that the mists are still doing damage even when they are dead (2-3 hits) like the victim was poisoned for a short time. Was it always like this?

[critto]

Just another thing. When fighting all the Vampiric Mists in the entrance hall of the Windspear dungeon (where Ruhk the conjurer is), i noticed that the mists are still doing damage even when they are dead (2-3 hits) like the victim was poisoned for a short time. Was it always like this?

Yes, it's their special on-hit ability.

[lroumen]

I was also wondering about the new druid kit and/or magnitude of the content of the expanded druid stronghold. What I like is the druid only upgrade and minor change in items (treefolk arm it seems), but there is no incentive yet to craft those items

The kit is not new, but an existing one. I don't want to overpopulate the game with new kits, better modify existing ones, it's less problematic from the point of implementation. We're still experimenting. As for the content, there will be at least one pretty large quest for which a custom new area was made long time ago. The whole todo list for v7 is pretty large however, but I don't know yet which things will be done. As for items and upgrades, there are plenty. We've extended the item randomizer with some previously statically placed items (and will extend with more). In v6.2, we've worked on spears and scimitars to make them good weapon choices (not only for druids, btw). In v7, we'll definitely take a look at clubs.

Very interesting info there, thanks!
There are some nice clubs already, just treefolk was made druid/ranger only so less interesting in some runs now and out of scope for thieves (did not check uai). I guess these changes become more interesting in v7 when I will run a druid game.

[Azoth]

Improved Invisibility gives +8 bonus to Saving Throws instead of +4. At least this is what the character record says.